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| archels | (it is because of the solver can correct position or velocity, but not both.) | 03:28 |
|---|---|---|
| archels | Heisenberg in cyberspace | 03:28 |
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| streety | kanzure, all the reviews are of the form "the product works great" I'd much rather see "I ran the product through a HPLC and it contained exactly what I expected" | 03:47 |
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| kanzure | streety: hm? | 04:33 |
| kanzure | http://rjlipton.wordpress.com/2014/10/18/a-new-provable-factoring-algorithm/ | 04:44 |
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| justanotheruser | kanzure: where do you get your news, other channels? | 04:48 |
| archels | http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.usb.general/116767 | 04:51 |
| kanzure | well you see i read the twitter firehose directly | 04:51 |
| kanzure | https://dev.twitter.com/streaming/reference/get/statuses/firehose | 04:53 |
| kanzure | "Returns all public statuses. Few applications require this level of access." | 04:53 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: mix of irc and email mostly | 04:54 |
| kanzure | curious.. http://www.vox.com/2014/10/22/7031243/china-grip-rare-earth-metals-supply-weakening | 04:55 |
| kanzure | http://www.openmicroscopy.org/ "OME develops open-source software and data format standards for the storage and manipulation of biological microscopy data. It is a joint project between universities, research establishments, industry and the software development community." | 04:58 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/openmicroscopy | 04:58 |
| kanzure | their readme sucks https://github.com/openmicroscopy/openmicroscopy | 04:58 |
| kanzure | this is a weird one... postcards that get redeemed for specific playlists of music? https://albumcards.com/ | 05:00 |
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| justanotheruser | kanzure: why don't you just use twitter? Do you convert it to an RSS feed or something? | 05:01 |
| kanzure | .to eudoxia https://github.com/eudoxia0/corona how can you tolerate waiting around for vagrant? | 05:01 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: I'll pass your message to eudoxia. | 05:01 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: unfortunately i tend to just add everything to any rss aggregator i use, so it becomes a chore | 05:02 |
| kanzure | and most blogs are evil and publish only a portion of their content in rss. and never their comments. | 05:02 |
| justanotheruser | you want an entire blog and all their comments in a feed? Geeze | 05:03 |
| kanzure | yeah, most of the time people post things that are wrong, and comments are the fastest way to check if anyone called them out on their crap. | 05:04 |
| kanzure | who has time to individually load every single site? i found myself doing that for every post in a rss feed because the content was either partial or missing or lacking... | 05:05 |
| kanzure | their incentives aren't aligned with rss anyway (page views, ad revenue, etc) which probably explains it | 05:05 |
| streety | my comment was in reference to (06:37:21 AM) kanzure: [04:45:12] .title http://www.eroids.com/ | 05:28 |
| streety | (06:37:21 AM) kanzure: [04:49:54] alright let's do a group buy | 05:28 |
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| kanzure | ah | 05:29 |
| kanzure | well, let's run it through hplc | 05:30 |
| kanzure | that too is a thing that is doable | 05:30 |
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| kanzure | "I've spoken with austin hill in the past and have not got along well with him and suspicious of his profit model and ultimate goals to create a monopoly on bitcoin development. I also think he's a snake taking you developers for a ride." | 05:32 |
| kanzure | http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2k070h/enabling_blockchain_innovations_with_pegged/clhak9c | 05:32 |
| kanzure | http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2k2j8f/austin_hill_ceo_of_blockstream_will_soon_have_a/ | 05:32 |
| streety | entirely doable, | 05:32 |
| kanzure | archels: here's a more friendly url to that https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/10/23/151 | 05:33 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_eyUVVcgc8 | 05:47 |
| yoleaux | Vocaloid - /jp/ Theme Song ENG subs - YouTube | 05:47 |
| kanzure | hmm. | 05:47 |
| archels | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nfKDqMC3JA&list=UUA9xfPhSI-__bvsyi5QmKZQ&index=10 | 05:56 |
| yoleaux | Atmospheric Drum 'n Bass-Mix by ArtIn@Soundtraveler - Lm1 [A Tribute] - YouTube | 05:56 |
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| kanzure | https://github.com/aaugustin/django-c10k-demo "10,000 concurrent real-time connections to django" using aiohttp/asyncio | 06:45 |
| JayDugger | Good morning. | 06:53 |
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| kanzure | .title https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd/pull/362 | 08:52 |
| yoleaux | Fast initial synchronisation by JahPowerBit · Pull Request #362 · CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd · GitHub | 08:52 |
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| kanzure | this is pretty neat. reads the blockchain files directly instead of going through bitcoind and bitcoind rpc. | 08:52 |
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| nmz787_i | "Theophrastus's bizarre belief that pyroelectric lyncurium comes from the urine of a lynx" | 11:12 |
| kanzure | some people are just better at telling it like it is | 11:13 |
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| kanzure | http://instagram-engineering.tumblr.com/post/100758229719/migrating-from-aws-to-aws | 11:57 |
| archels | geppetto is looking pretty good http://www.geppetto.org/ | 12:03 |
| kanzure | erm what engine does it use | 12:04 |
| archels | I think there's a Java backend and WebGL for the interface | 12:07 |
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| archels | "Ten Simple Rules for Writing a PLOS Ten Simple Rules Article" | 12:24 |
| archels | nerds :P | 12:24 |
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| fenn | i like to sprinkle lyncurium on my breakfast cereal | 13:11 |
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| fenn | high in pycnogenol! | 13:24 |
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| kanzure | hrm | 13:43 |
| kanzure | so much confusion | 13:44 |
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| kanzure | "why am i reading up about aws networking?" | 13:55 |
| kanzure | "if i have two availability zones but four regions, how many vpcs does that handle?" | 13:55 |
| chris_99 | the vpc thing was a pita, i had to use it, in boto in order to use a tiny instance | 13:56 |
| kanzure | i've been using terraform instead of boto lately | 13:56 |
| chris_99 | oh not heard of that | 13:56 |
| kanzure | boto is wonderful for obscure automation requirements | 13:56 |
| kanzure | ah well best way to describe terraform is this: | 13:57 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/18F/fec-infrastructure/blob/master/bootstrap/bootstrap.tf | 13:57 |
| kanzure | declarative a little bit like cloudformation except terraform works with other providers | 13:57 |
| chris_99 | ah cool | 13:58 |
| kanzure | i keep meaning to find an excuse to use boto more often though... | 13:58 |
| chris_99 | i used it with paramiko (sp?) to ssh and run commands automatically | 13:58 |
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| kanzure | "vim being mapped to vim || [[ $? -eq 127 ]] && apt-get install vim && vim is the closest metaphor that aligns with what docker run does right now." | 14:15 |
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| nmz787_i | chris_99: someone here implemented something with paramiko, ever notice problems with it? | 14:21 |
| nmz787_i | sheena: make any progress with the video stuff? | 14:21 |
| chris_99 | i haven't used it that much nmz787_i tbh, but i think it did give some odd exception when connecting to an instance with ssh not running | 14:21 |
| kanzure | this thread is just bizarre https://github.com/docker/docker/issues/1988 | 14:22 |
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| nmz787_i | kanzure: i guess I have such little understanding of docker... like why the hell people would want public images in the first place | 14:36 |
| nmz787_i | or like, why people assume the computer would even be on a network at all | 14:36 |
| kanzure | well, docker.com has an incentive to force people to use this because long tail of available docker containers for their other users | 14:36 |
| nmz787_i | hah, that's going to end well for people using that, i'm sure | 14:37 |
| * nmz787_i sarcasm | 14:37 | |
| kanzure | if you already see a verified container for postgresql or something, you're just going to take it instead of building one yourself | 14:37 |
| kanzure | frankly, vagrant could have done the same sort of registry thingy | 14:37 |
| nmz787_i | until someone verifies a virus-laden container | 14:37 |
| kanzure | i'm sure there's a number of virus-laden containers | 14:37 |
| kanzure | just a few minutes ago i ran into a problem where the wrong base image was pulled | 14:38 |
| kanzure | which is extremely dangerous | 14:38 |
| nmz787_i | bizarre | 14:38 |
| nmz787_i | i'm only 1/3 through the comments of that and already see 'I suggest we end this thread' | 14:38 |
| kanzure | because any RUN command means that the base container could have injected whatever software they please to scan the contents of the container and upload stats/metadata/data to some attacker. | 14:38 |
| kanzure | skip to the bottom | 14:38 |
| kanzure | there's a proposal here: https://github.com/docker/docker/issues/1988#issuecomment-57261658 | 14:38 |
| kanzure | everything before that proposal is 100% bizarre and alien to me ("this is not a real problem, you're crazy" etc) | 14:39 |
| kanzure | requiring images named with domain names (like "diyhpl.us/myimage") is totally stupid, because on diyhpl.us the image is named "myimage"... but you wouldn't know it is supposed to be private etc. | 14:40 |
| kanzure | they should have copied git remotes or something | 14:41 |
| nmz787_i | i've been subsribed to a docker issue for probably a year now that hasn't been resolved, which seems like it should be pretty easy to resolve.. .this one https://github.com/docker/docker/issues/3182 | 14:42 |
| nmz787_i | 'Device-mapper does not release free space from removed images' | 14:42 |
| nmz787_i | they closed it within days of it being opened, yet the problem isn't actually fixed | 14:43 |
| kanzure | use aufs? | 14:43 |
| nmz787_i | oh, i guess it was a little more than a month until they closed it | 14:44 |
| nmz787_i | but that was 10 months ago | 14:44 |
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| nmz787_i | idk, but i keep getting email updates of people saying | 14:45 |
| nmz787_i | 'this still is broken' | 14:45 |
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| nmz787_i | huh, intel vietnam has their own 'school bus' system for commuting | 14:50 |
| nmz787_i | and most ppl there are 29 years old | 14:50 |
| nmz787_i | and apparently they have soft pretzels (which I don't think we have here :/ ) | 14:52 |
| kanzure | hmm | 15:00 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/lindenlab/docker/compare/8326-force-fully-qualified | 15:00 |
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| kanzure | this is also very weird: https://github.com/docker/docker/issues/7291#issuecomment-50698248 | 15:11 |
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| kanzure | some docker complaints: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8168315 | 15:19 |
| kanzure | "Running a private registry is awkward. You have to tag images with the FQDN of your registry as a prefix (which is braindead) for it to "detect" that it's supposed to use your registry to push the image." | 15:19 |
| nmz787_i | if I have a bunch of strings in a file like 'add <capacitor>CAPACITOR_ONPAD_VIA' (without quotes)... what's a regex that will find 'add <capacitor>BUT-NOT(CAPACITOR_ONPAD_VIA)' | 15:22 |
| nmz787_i | this doesn't work in sublime text at least 'capacitor>^(CAPACITOR_ONPAD_VIA)' | 15:23 |
| kanzure | capacitory>[^(CAPACITOR_ONPAD_VIA)] | 15:25 |
| kanzure | capacitor>[^(CAPACITOR_ONPAD_VIA)] | 15:25 |
| nmz787_i | #regex helped me, the search would be 'add <capacitor>(?!CAPACITOR_ONPAD_VIA)' | 15:28 |
| nmz787_i | where ?! is a look-ahead | 15:28 |
| nmz787_i | 'OnlineCop: (?!...) is a negative "look-ahead"' | 15:28 |
| nmz787_i | 'OnlineCop: It peeks forward to ensure that (...) isn't come afterward.' | 15:28 |
| nmz787_i | wow and apparently this site has regex syntax highlighting with help text http://regex101.com/r/nX3mO8/1 | 15:29 |
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| nmz787_i | dang yashgaroth has smileys in his hostname | 15:30 |
| nmz787_i | hmm, I can't however seem to visit :).com | 15:31 |
| yashgaroth | :6 | 15:50 |
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| kanzure | "I used to trade on Metatrader back in 2007~2009. There was a huge scandal because it was revealed that MetaQuotes implemented a function to forcefully cause disruption in the orders that were coming in. This function would be used by brokers to forcefully widen the spread at any given time. I remembered a lot of traders, myself included, just completely lost trust in retail forex. It was nothing but a sham." | 15:53 |
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| fenn | "Exactly this sort of unjustified panic went on when Ubuntu started hiring Debian developers." | 16:25 |
| fenn | is it really possible for one company to "have a monopoly on bitcoin development" | 16:26 |
| kanzure | well, you can look at commit access | 16:27 |
| kanzure | but that doesn't matter so much as "how many people who understand this system are not biased" | 16:28 |
| fenn | so there's 1) resistance to the tentacles of evil test, on the software licensing side | 16:28 |
| kanzure | "are as least biased as possible" | 16:28 |
| fenn | and 2) you can use whatever block validation software you want | 16:28 |
| kanzure | i think the main concern is regarding subtle influences regarding what gets merged versus not merged over long periods of time | 16:28 |
| kanzure | it's true that you can run whatever software you please, but bitcoind itself is where most development happens anyway | 16:29 |
| fenn | sure groupthink is a problem, but that's totally different than "one man controls bitcoin" | 16:29 |
| kanzure | this set of developers is way smaller than debian overall | 16:30 |
| kanzure | and debian is well understood by a bunch of people | 16:30 |
| kanzure | and doesn't have crazy-weird financial incentives behind every corner | 16:31 |
| kanzure | by a bunch i mean more than 100, and even more than 1000 | 16:31 |
| fenn | this also would be a perfectly acceptable explanation for why people freak out over every and any little thing | 16:31 |
| kanzure | yes it's also hard to run the simulation in your head for whether or not a change is a good idea | 16:32 |
| fenn | like, nobody cares about debian internationalization/accessibility falling behind, because the software still works fine without it and everyone knows that it does | 16:32 |
| kanzure | because beyond things like software architecture sanity and good coding conventions, there's network consensus, and then network adoption, n**n compatibility issues, etc. | 16:33 |
| fenn | but in bitcoin it certainly seems like 90%+ people with a stake have no idea how it works on a mechanistic level | 16:33 |
| kanzure | has to be way more than 90% because as bitcoin becomes more widely adopted the adoption starts to match society at large | 16:34 |
| fenn | "with a stake" means running some kind of bitcoin-related service | 16:34 |
| fenn | not just a user | 16:34 |
| kanzure | not just a bitcoin stake, ok. | 16:34 |
| fenn | are there actually sidechains? currently in existence | 16:36 |
| kanzure | this seems to be a required component but not the complete set of tools https://github.com/Blockstream/contracthashtool | 16:36 |
| kanzure | they have to implement a few things first | 16:36 |
| kanzure | there's also some weird questions about fidicuiary duties (since they are all founders?) | 16:41 |
| kanzure | in terms of law stuff. | 16:42 |
| fenn | why are they developing experimental stuff in C | 16:42 |
| kanzure | probably because they want to get as far away from boost in bitcoind as possible | 16:43 |
| fenn | uint256.cpp is like 5 lines of python | 16:43 |
| kanzure | yeah.. | 16:43 |
| fenn | and now i'm wasting time looking around for the code that actually does something relevant to this package | 16:45 |
| fenn | maybe that's just bad documentation | 16:45 |
| kanzure | somewhere in https://github.com/Blockstream/contracthashtool/blob/master/contracthashtool.c | 16:46 |
| fenn | did you read slides-djb-20141018-a4.pdf aka "how to fuck up crypto for everyone whos not the NSA" | 16:47 |
| fenn | one of the items was "use random number generators everywhere" which definitely seems to be the case | 16:47 |
| kanzure | i looked through most of those lsides | 16:48 |
| kanzure | lots of sidechannel attacks. | 16:48 |
| fenn | one of the things that stuck with me was something like "debian SSH keys had <20 bits of entropy for a decade" | 16:48 |
| fenn | due to bad random number generator | 16:48 |
| kanzure | right | 16:49 |
| kanzure | that one might have happened while you were in a parallel universe | 16:50 |
| fenn | 2^20 = 1 million | 16:50 |
| fenn | no i remember the whole key blacklisting process | 16:50 |
| fenn | based on my reading of cryptonomicon, you should be banging on the keyboard wildly in order to seed your system with enough entropy to resist attack | 16:52 |
| fenn | but for some reason that is never required? | 16:52 |
| kanzure | you might be amused by https://www.bitaddress.org/bitaddress.org-v2.9.3-SHA1-7d47ab312789b7b3c1792e4abdb8f2d95b726d64.html | 16:53 |
| kanzure | uh | 16:53 |
| kanzure | i meant https://bitaddress.org/ i guess | 16:53 |
| fenn | i dont trust browsers that much | 16:54 |
| kanzure | yes i think a few of these sites have had prng vulnerabilities for various browsers | 16:54 |
| kanzure | so people just suddenly lose all their bitcoin as it's transferred away :) | 16:55 |
| kanzure | happened on one of the android clients too | 16:55 |
| kanzure | fun ties | 16:55 |
| kanzure | fun times | 16:55 |
| fenn | or just the fact that browsers have a billion known and widely exploited vulnerabilities | 16:55 |
| fenn | every hacked bitcoin forum probably has a XSS attack targeting that site | 16:55 |
| kanzure | "don't you know, you're supposed to buy a separate computer and keep it disconnected from networks, usb, bluetooth, and microphones listening to your typing or fans or heat signatures, and then load the html on there" | 16:56 |
| fenn | whats so hard about downloading a signed executable | 16:56 |
| kanzure | "also only run your own custom-verified version of tails" | 16:56 |
| fenn | heh "microphones listening to your typing" is a real thing | 16:57 |
| kanzure | personally i've resorted to mental ecdsa arithmetic (not quite... but i'd like to.) | 16:57 |
| fenn | i sincerely wish crypto were more understandable | 16:58 |
| kanzure | yes i'm aware about microphones and typing n' such | 16:58 |
| fenn | sometimes i just think it's all wishful thinking and any alien or otherwise non-human intelligence that tried could circumvent most crypto algorithms because the solution would be obvious to them | 16:59 |
| fenn | like, the only reason we think it's unbreakable is because we're all running basically the same wetware | 16:59 |
| kanzure | nick szabo had a pro-cryptography-against-super-ai opinion a while back that wei dai shared and then grew out of | 17:00 |
| fenn | yeah well if god is so powerful how come he hasn't defeated satan | 17:01 |
| kanzure | http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.3Q97/4356.html | 17:01 |
| kanzure | http://lesswrong.com/lw/dq9/work_on_security_instead_of_friendliness/ | 17:01 |
| kanzure | man it's fucking great having bookmarks again | 17:02 |
| fenn | "if one-way functions exist" ... big if | 17:02 |
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| fenn | but at least he explicitly states his assumptions | 17:03 |
| fenn | "security issues, and in particular the security of property rights, are the only real issues here and the rest is BS." <- not sure exactly what's wrong with that, but i have the image of jackbooted robot thugs breaking down your door holding antimatter guns | 17:04 |
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| kanzure | er yes, it would seem like if he talked only about software or data it would be a much more productive conversation maybe? | 17:05 |
| fenn | but most of the "friendly agi" stuff up to that point was about physical security vs hard takeoff | 17:05 |
| fenn | i mean, "not dying" when the ai takes over | 17:05 |
| fenn | when i think of "crypto systems enforcing property rights" i pictures a little black chip with a wire soldered on both ends, bypassing it entirely | 17:07 |
| kanzure | haha | 17:07 |
| kanzure | it is a little interesting that cryptography has not been a central focus in ai conversations | 17:07 |
| kanzure | because based on what we presently know it might be easier to secure data against such an adversary than physical systems | 17:07 |
| kanzure | which makes it a unique case | 17:08 |
| fenn | i think there's a tendency in mathy people to forget about how physical implementation is important | 17:08 |
| kanzure | yes but normally the ai people go around yelling doom and that nothing can possibly prevent a sufficiently intelligent ai from getting what it wants | 17:08 |
| fenn | well, maybe, but that's a poorly defined term next to another poorly defined term | 17:08 |
| fenn | if you substitute religious terms, it goes something like "there's nothing that can prevent a sufficiently powerful god from getting what it wants" | 17:09 |
| fenn | all i can do is shrug | 17:09 |
| kanzure | i don't think there's any threat model that can accurately describe omnipotence | 17:09 |
| fenn | what i'm trying to say is it may be easier for a digital native ("agi") to manipulate cryptographic locks | 17:11 |
| fenn | it may not be able to open a can of beans, but SSL no problem | 17:11 |
| kanzure | there are many mechanisms that open cans of beans with very little mechanical coordination | 17:12 |
| fenn | sure but you still have to identify the can, get the can, put the can in the contraption, activate the contraption, verify that the can has been opened | 17:12 |
| kanzure | i wonder when's the last time i successfully opened a can of beans | 17:12 |
| fenn | and navigate any obstacles that come up during that process | 17:12 |
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| fenn | a lot of the ai in box scenarios cheat by hiring a human to open the can of beans | 17:13 |
| fenn | but what's the point of getting out of the box if you still need to hire a human to open a can of beans | 17:14 |
| kanzure | that's a rather trivial complaint | 17:14 |
| fenn | (and other equivalently taken-for-granted problems) | 17:14 |
| kanzure | i mean, so okay, you test out some drivers and find a camera and a mechanical arm that goes left and right and you move on because you need something more useful near other tools or resources. big deal. | 17:15 |
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| fenn | this presupposes an awareness of the physical world and a belief in its importance | 17:15 |
| kanzure | oh hey you might be the right person to ask about this, | 17:15 |
| kanzure | is "supply chain integrity" a real problem or is it a fake problem | 17:15 |
| fenn | in what context | 17:16 |
| fenn | chip backdoors? | 17:16 |
| kanzure | "it says it's from vendor xyz but in reality someone just put a sticker on a knockoff" | 17:16 |
| fenn | (archels posted something about FTDI counterfit chip identification software earlier) | 17:16 |
| kanzure | "and also, you weren't actually buying from that vendor but instead someone injecting supply of their own" | 17:17 |
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| * kanzure ponders http://www.fda.gov/drugs/drugsafety/drugintegrityandsupplychainsecurity/default.htm | 17:17 | |
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| fenn | it seems to be a problem for overpriced things | 17:17 |
| fenn | but i dont really give a shit | 17:17 |
| kanzure | hehe a list of cargo thefts http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/CriminalInvestigations/ucm182888.htm | 17:17 |
| fenn | you shouldnt be charging $2000/pill in the first place | 17:17 |
| kanzure | what about commodity electronics though? | 17:18 |
| kanzure | even smt resistors from nowhere | 17:18 |
| fenn | a resistor is a resistor | 17:18 |
| kanzure | then what the fuck's the point of a spec sheet | 17:18 |
| fenn | there are, uh, "traceable certificate of authenticity" papers, which seem bogus to me as a concept but are widely used in industry in many fields; fasteners nuts and bolts, alloys, chemicals, etc | 17:19 |
| kanzure | like, great, you passed inspection or testing... | 17:19 |
| kanzure | oh really | 17:19 |
| kanzure | are these crypto certs or just toilet paper certs? | 17:19 |
| fenn | toilet paper | 17:19 |
| kanzure | really. | 17:19 |
| fenn | usually they look like they came out of a fax machine | 17:20 |
| kanzure | they probably did? | 17:20 |
| fenn | i guess the idea is you call up the company and ask "have you sold anyone this serial number yet" | 17:20 |
| kanzure | manufacturers often send supply to vendors who then resell it though | 17:20 |
| fenn | and if they say yes you have a talk with your business partner | 17:20 |
| fenn | er, yeah | 17:21 |
| kanzure | this sounds broken | 17:21 |
| fenn | anyway, now they're talking about adding micro bar codes to each pill, or something | 17:21 |
| kanzure | that's also stupid | 17:21 |
| fenn | of course | 17:21 |
| kanzure | i think i have a solution | 17:21 |
| fenn | use HPLC on everything if you are unsure of what it is | 17:22 |
| kanzure | but it would only prevent duplicates from being sld | 17:22 |
| kanzure | e.g. if they buy one real pill with my scheme, they would be able to sell one fake one | 17:22 |
| kanzure | but only one. | 17:22 |
| kanzure | or, you know, the one real one -_- | 17:22 |
| fenn | i'm more concerned about tampering, like i.e. hardware keyloggers | 17:23 |
| kanzure | i don't think i can solve that one | 17:24 |
| fenn | yeah you cant exactly do a md5sum of your keyboard | 17:24 |
| fenn | you can do an x-ray hologram, but that only works for nanotech | 17:25 |
| fenn | so yes, supply chain integrity is a problem, and nobody likes to talk about it because we're all slave bitches of the global economy | 17:25 |
| fenn | so far it's been limited to "cover your ass against lawsuits when shit breaks" | 17:26 |
| kanzure | welp i wouldn't mind coding up some software to fix that but i would have to find people that actually care enough about supply chain integrity to give up money | 17:26 |
| kanzure | s/give up money/give me money | 17:26 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/CriminalInvestigations/ucm253675.htm | 17:26 |
| yoleaux | Notification: Non-Sterile Boston Scientific Devices Stolen | 17:26 |
| fenn | "The labels on these devices state that they are “Sterile”; however, they were stolen prior to being sterilized and are non-sterile." shouldnt they get fined for that | 17:28 |
| kanzure | "we can't be fined because they were uh, they were stolen, yeah man" | 17:28 |
| fenn | how hard is it to put the sticker on after sterilization | 17:28 |
| kanzure | do you really want an answer | 17:29 |
| fenn | no | 17:29 |
| fenn | so, i dont know about the whole idea of detecting fakes by doing weird undocumented things | 17:30 |
| fenn | er, s/fake/counterfeit hardware/ | 17:30 |
| fenn | i'd rather stuff just have a well defined interface and not do anything outside of that behavior | 17:30 |
| fenn | basically http://langsec.org/occupy/ but in hardware | 17:32 |
| fenn | hardware is so fucked these days | 17:32 |
| kanzure | "weird undocumented things" ? | 17:33 |
| fenn | yeah in archel's "counterfeit FT232 detector" code it does something like setting a value at some undocumented register | 17:33 |
| fenn | here is the link again for reference http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.usb.general/116767 | 17:34 |
| fenn | "An official recent Windows driver from FTDI detects counterfeit devices and reprograms the internal EEPROM containing the USB PID to 0, effectively | 17:37 |
| fenn | bricking the device." | 17:37 |
| kanzure | oh i thought you were referring to my scheme | 17:37 |
| kanzure | yeah my scheme would probably solve that if you could convince the original manufacturer and the supply-buyers at the "end" of the supply chain. | 17:37 |
| kanzure | (i don't know if people call it an end) | 17:37 |
| fenn | this whole idea of "official malware" gives me the creeps | 17:38 |
| kanzure | what, code-signed malware? | 17:38 |
| fenn | ""An official recent Windows driver ... bricks the device" | 17:39 |
| fenn | its like the sony rootkit audio cd-roms | 17:39 |
| kanzure | that sounds like normal buggy firmware that bricks devices anyway, what's new about that | 17:40 |
| fenn | it's not a bug, it's an anti-feature | 17:40 |
| fenn | sounds like it's undocumented too (secret) | 17:41 |
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| kanzure | hmm http://www.nepcon.net/newsroom/chain-custody-certification-myth | 17:43 |
| kanzure | "In particular, there is no systematic way of tracking transactions between certified companies, and that’s where the biggest potential for double-dealing lies. - See more at: http://www.nepcon.net/newsroom/chain-custody-certification-myth#sthash.ayDZBAwO.dpuf" | 17:48 |
| kanzure | hahah | 17:48 |
| kanzure | "This is the key reason why FSC has launched the Online Claims Platform (OCP) initiative, where buyers report traded volumes of FSC products online, whilst the supplier confirms the claims. This enables double-checking and confirming claims in near real time." | 17:49 |
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| fenn | “The idea that volume fraud can be uncovered by a pre-scheduled audit, in which an auditor walks around a factory and checks some procedures and invoices is simply unrealistic”. this is a totally different problem | 17:52 |
| fenn | they could always stable a piece of crypto hardware to every product | 17:53 |
| fenn | staple* | 17:53 |
| kanzure | i'm not talking about crypto back doors | 17:54 |
| kanzure | i'm talking about "buying a chip, reverse engineering it, making a copy, selling the copy a few hundred times" | 17:54 |
| fenn | i just mean so you know it came from the factory you think it came from | 17:54 |
| fenn | without the factory's private key, the crypto hardware won't give the correct challenge response | 17:55 |
| fenn | i know it's too involved for most people to go through | 17:55 |
| kanzure | you don't need hardware for this | 17:55 |
| fenn | how so | 17:56 |
| kanzure | one sec, on phone | 17:56 |
| superkuh | Welp... now I'm on a Vinge binge. Thanks fenn. | 17:56 |
| fenn | welcome. it's pronounced with a hard g (i think) | 17:57 |
| fenn | er, soft g with a "ee" sound | 17:58 |
| kanzure | fenn: it was about preventing forgeries | 18:03 |
| fenn | i'm sure the blockchain is involved somehow... | 18:04 |
| fenn | what was your "anti-replay oracle" thing | 18:04 |
| kanzure | anti-replay oracle is just my pet name for describing the function of the blockchain | 18:05 |
| fenn | so how do you 'spend' a certificate of authenticity (i.e. invalidate it) | 18:05 |
| kanzure | it's just a bitcoin transaction | 18:05 |
| kanzure | you tie the product to the scarcity of bitcoin because your product doesn't have actual scarcity | 18:06 |
| kanzure | (still on phone) | 18:06 |
| fenn | say you have a chip, let's say it's an ft232 usb to serial adapter | 18:06 |
| kanzure | there are two things you sell, the chip and a bitcoin transaction | 18:06 |
| fenn | how do you know if it was manufactured by ftdi | 18:06 |
| kanzure | ftdi would need some way of publishing evidence i think. | 18:06 |
| fenn | someone could have taken the stickers off genuine chips and put them on counterfeit chips | 18:06 |
| kanzure | there would be no stickers | 18:07 |
| fenn | then they copied the serial numbers, whatever | 18:07 |
| kanzure | i don't care about markings on the product | 18:07 |
| fenn | how do you keep the product and certificate bound together then | 18:07 |
| kanzure | (they are nice for identification purposes, and should be there, but it's not necessary for this scheme) | 18:07 |
| kanzure | well, your customers should demand both two things. | 18:07 |
| fenn | ok so your customer demands both and gets a genuine certificate and a counterfeit product | 18:08 |
| kanzure | that's fine. that can only happen once. where'd the real one go? :) | 18:08 |
| fenn | into someone else's product who wasn't as upstanding a citizen | 18:08 |
| fenn | they both get (counterfeit value - genuine value)/2 of a discount on price | 18:09 |
| kanzure | hmm. | 18:10 |
| fenn | you might ask "why not just sell counterfeit chips" and the answer is that they sell to two markets this way | 18:10 |
| fenn | er, three markets instead of two | 18:11 |
| fenn | 1) people who only buy certified genuine chips and check the certificate 2) people who only buy genuine chips 3) people who buy counterfeit chips | 18:12 |
| fenn | the certificates have value separate from the product itself | 18:13 |
| fenn | and there's no way to tie the two together afaik | 18:13 |
| fenn | then there's the issue of counterfeit certificates... | 18:15 |
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| kanzure | okay back | 19:26 |
| kanzure | fenn: counterfeit bitcoin transactions? how? | 19:26 |
| kanzure | fenn: so yes, it would require that customers start caring about authenticity or original manufacturer | 19:27 |
| kanzure | they took down ted chiang >:( http://web.archive.org/web/20110729215301/http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/under.htm | 19:36 |
| fenn | do you have the 15k science fiction book torrent? | 19:43 |
| kanzure | no | 19:44 |
| fenn | maybe it was 12k, i forget the original source but it's quite well curated | 19:45 |
| fenn | not 100% complete (as if there is such a thing) but good enough to be a more reliable source than google | 19:45 |
| fenn | apparently the base set is known as "13130" and was produced by mazzeltjes | 19:53 |
| kanzure | .g mazzeltjes | 19:54 |
| yoleaux | http://www.mazzeltjes.nl/ | 19:54 |
| kanzure | .title | 19:54 |
| yoleaux | Mazzeltjes kinderkleding | 19:54 |
| fenn | wrong mazzeltjes | 19:54 |
| kanzure | yeah. hm. | 19:54 |
| kanzure | well if soviet cosmonauts can smell mugs.. | 19:54 |
| kanzure | or sell | 19:55 |
| fenn | well its taking a long time to get metadata for 17787 files | 20:09 |
| Viper168 | smelling mugs would be a weird power | 20:14 |
| fenn | well damn this torrent looks correct but no trackers peers or seeds | 20:20 |
| kanzure | file sharing sucks these days | 20:20 |
| fenn | maybe it will return from the dead magnet:?xt=urn:btih:6aabb391f18bc6565efdb8b92e72eeb5aa485bf9 | 20:35 |
| kanzure | if you close your eyes and wish real hard | 20:35 |
| fenn | well i have 75% of it | 20:35 |
| fenn | there ought to be AI that can sort books and authors by now | 20:36 |
| fenn | something something compression distance matching | 20:37 |
| kanzure | why can't i insert a nickle and get unlimited data out of a giant database | 20:39 |
| fenn | cat /dev/random | 20:39 |
| fenn | you just have to search for what you want | 20:39 |
| kanzure | listening to universal entropy is a slow way to get specific data | 20:39 |
| fenn | http://hyperdiscordia.crywalt.com/library_of_babel.html | 20:43 |
| kanzure | very cliche, a story from jorge luis berges | 20:44 |
| fenn | i can never keep straight which is which; they are basically interchangeable | 20:45 |
| kanzure | each story? | 20:46 |
| kanzure | or maybe there's a second borges that i have been mistaking for the other one | 20:46 |
| fenn | the true borges | 20:47 |
| kanzure | i like the idea of nsh running around authoring stories under other people's names | 20:47 |
| kanzure | nsh has definitely done at least one of the borges stories | 20:48 |
| kanzure | a good role model for chaotic neutral, or chaotic obscura maybe | 20:48 |
| fenn | http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/00/pwillen1/lit/borg&i.htm | 20:49 |
| kanzure | there should be a science fiction checklist or scoring thing, it wouldn't be too hard | 20:50 |
| kanzure | and it would be a logarithmic scale | 20:50 |
| fenn | pretty sure that last one is a counterfeit | 20:50 |
| kanzure | his fault for not using pgp | 20:51 |
| fenn | he was before pgp | 20:51 |
| kanzure | yes i know. | 20:51 |
| fenn | ugh why do we have to respect the copyrights of dead people | 20:53 |
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| kanzure | meh | 21:01 |
| fenn | there's basically no reason i shouldnt be able to find "the other borges" online | 21:01 |
| fenn | Perhaps my old age and fearfulness deceive me, but I suspect that the human species -- the unique species -- is about to be extinguished, but the Library will endure: illuminated, solitary, infinite, perfectly motionless, equipped with precious volumes, useless, incorruptible, secret. | 21:23 |
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| kanzure | how the hell can you expect the library to endure when i can only read two pages at a time on google books | 21:39 |
| fenn | if you can read more than two pages at a time from a book i'd like to hear how | 21:51 |
| fenn | if you rip pages out and scatter them on the floor, it's not a book anymore | 21:51 |
| kanzure | first you take lots of drugs | 21:54 |
| kanzure | then you make all your friends read it for you | 21:54 |
| kanzure | $ ./jot count | 22:09 |
| kanzure | 1721 | 22:09 |
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| fenn | i wonder what this is http://torrentus.si/65664105/test-irc-bookz-2003-2014-torrents.html | 22:32 |
| fenn | based on the file sizes it would seem there are about 300-350GB of books there | 22:35 |
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| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/35/11844 | 22:50 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1523%2FJNEUROSCI.4642-12.2014 | 22:50 |
| sheena | so i have a sample vide finally to play with | 22:56 |
| sheena | nmz787: but im trying to figure out where teh code has any threshold | 22:57 |
| fenn | looks like #bookz downloads about 200MB of books per day from .. somewhere with a lot o books: (warning huge text file) http://fennetic.net/irc/bookz_filelist_all.txt | 22:57 |
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| --- Log closed Fri Oct 24 00:00:09 2014 | ||
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