| --- Log opened Mon Oct 27 00:00:31 2014 | ||
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| ebowden | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC26516/pdf/pq001802.pdf | 00:50 |
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| kanzure | you killed paperbot | 04:55 |
| kanzure | http://gendal.wordpress.com/2014/10/26/a-simple-explanation-of-bitcoin-sidechains/ | 05:28 |
| kanzure | .to heath https://github.com/enaqx/awesome-react | 06:29 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: I'll pass your message to heath. | 06:29 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: you know what would be really bad? If a kidnapping insurance company had their db hacked. | 06:32 |
| kanzure | i'll get right on it | 06:36 |
| justanotheruser | I was thinking about our convo last night | 06:36 |
| kanzure | http://nerdbastards.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/power-rangers.jpg | 06:36 |
| justanotheruser | and realized having that insurance incentivizes kidnapping since you can pay them | 06:36 |
| justanotheruser | however no one should know that you have such insurance | 06:36 |
| justanotheruser | kidnapping insurance probably has the most critical data of any insurance companies. It being leaked would destroy the insurance company and get many people kidnapped | 06:37 |
| kanzure | http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1aa0ga/bitcoin_saves_the_life_of_15year_old_girl_in/ | 06:39 |
| justanotheruser | kidnapping policy is a strange thing. So many conflicting incentives | 06:41 |
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| kanzure | justanotheruser: also the parental kiddnapping type is interesting | 07:06 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: because that can also be associated with a ransom demand | 07:07 |
| justanotheruser | why? The only difference from a kidI see is a lost salary | 07:07 |
| kanzure | *kidnapping | 07:08 |
| kanzure | the reason why is because there's additional weirdery in child custody laws | 07:09 |
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| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnap_and_ransom_insurance | 07:11 |
| kanzure | "One of the known paradoxes of K&R policies is that those who have them are often not aware, as it can be provided by an employer hoping to protect the company's assets. It is believed that an employee with knowledge of his K&R policy might begin to act differently, or even collude in his own kidnap for fraudulent purposes.[3]" | 07:12 |
| kanzure | "Criminal gangs are believed to make $500 million a year from kidnap and ransom payments.[4]" | 07:12 |
| justanotheruser | yeah, part of the reason their db has to be confidential between them and the person paying the insurance (the two parties that have incentive to not have someone kidnapped) | 07:29 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: what do you think of this math? "Bitcoin’s block interval is ten minutes so it takes about five minutes on average for a new transaction to find its way into a block" | 07:33 |
| justanotheruser | from the gendal.wordpress you linked | 07:33 |
| kanzure | erm the number i've often heard is "on average you can expect a block to appear within ten minutes whenever you look" | 07:34 |
| kanzure | a transaction can't find its way faster into a block than the rate of block production | 07:34 |
| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8515398 | 07:34 |
| yoleaux | Ad blocker that clicks on the ads | Hacker News | 07:34 |
| kanzure | http://dhowe.github.io/AdNauseam/ | 07:36 |
| kanzure | firefox extension http://rednoise.org/adnauseam/adnauseam.xpi | 07:37 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: help me with this math | 07:38 |
| justanotheruser | 10:37 < justanotheruser> It should be 10min I think. That seems to be a bit of a paradox though | 07:38 |
| justanotheruser | 10:38 < justanotheruser> At every moment you are 10min from the next block on average, however, blocks on average are 10min apart and not all tx for the next block come 0min after the last black | 07:38 |
| kanzure | blocks are independent of transactions | 07:41 |
| justanotheruser | yes | 07:41 |
| justanotheruser | but given a uniform distribution of transactions, the average would be blocktime/2 wouldn't it? | 07:42 |
| justanotheruser | however, if I make a tx, the next block is 10min away on average | 07:42 |
| kanzure | haha opentransactions is basically saying "welp, use a blockchain i guess" http://monetas.net/monetas-brings-colored-coins-to-btcd/ | 07:44 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: it also depends on what they mean by "new" transaction | 07:45 |
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| kanzure | "A collection of NASA sounds from historic spaceflights and current missions" http://www.nasa.gov/connect/sounds/index.html | 08:53 |
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| kanzure | https://soundcloud.com/nasa | 08:54 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6CyS06c8tI | 08:58 |
| yoleaux | AlvaBio - Liquid Handler Prototype - YouTube | 08:58 |
| kanzure | "Here's an update on the liquid handler I've been working on. I got X and Y working, still need to do Z and the pump. Yay progress. The video of the prototype shows going around two 96 well plates, and then going from each well in the bottom row to a small petri dish. Looking for a co-founder with a background in the life-sciences. Email me directly. You'd have to move to the San Francisco Bay area eventually." | 08:58 |
| kanzure | Tom Eberhard <tom.eberhard@gmail.com> | 08:58 |
| kanzure | https://soundcloud.com/martingarrix/martin-garrix-moti-virus-how-about-now-out-now | 08:59 |
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| heath | yoleaux: you have a message... | 09:26 |
| yoleaux | 13:29Z <kanzure> heath: https://github.com/enaqx/awesome-react | 09:26 |
| kanzure | hahah "Bryan! Would you be interested in a career opportunity with Zynga!? I came across your resume today and I wanted to talk with you about some excellent opportunities I am recruiting on for Zynga." | 09:31 |
| heath | protein foldville | 09:33 |
| tallakahath | I'd play that. | 09:38 |
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| juri_ | i think i'd prefer 'cell defense'. tower defense games are addicting. | 09:41 |
| justanotheruser | kanzoracle: is aspertame bad for you? | 09:41 |
| kanzure | relay question to fenn or jrayhawk | 09:41 |
| justanotheruser | to my understanding, you naturally produce it, however you produce far less than you're consuming by a few orders of magnitude | 09:42 |
| justanotheruser | fenn or jrayhawk_: Is aspertame bad for you | 09:42 |
| justanotheruser | hmm | 09:42 |
| justanotheruser | So is this like a binary tree and if you guys don't know the answer you'll refer me to two other people? | 09:43 |
| juri_ | relay question to kanzure, or paperbot. | 09:43 |
| justanotheruser | you're not in this tree and going to kanzure would make it a directed graph, not a tree | 09:43 |
| kanzure | http://www.hhmi.org/biointeractive/dna-replication-basic-detail | 10:01 |
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| kanzure | that video needs a national geographic horn | 10:02 |
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| kanzure | huh, tritonal is in austin. i should go find them. | 10:10 |
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| kanzure | https://blog.gregbrockman.com/figuring-out-the-cto-role-at-stripe | 11:35 |
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| justanotheruser | paperbot: find me an article going over standard of living increases in recorded history | 11:51 |
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| paperbot | justanotheruser: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living_in_the_United_States | 12:10 |
| justanotheruser | thanks paperbot, but I think recorded history goes past when the United States was founded | 12:11 |
| chris_99 | paperbot: find me an article on cats | 12:20 |
| -!- snuffeluffegus is now known as gurpgork | 12:42 | |
| nsh | paperbot, http://www.researchgate.net/publication/220528701_Emergence_of_fuzzy_preferences_for_risk_in_a_Birkhoff-von_Neumann_logics_environment | 12:49 |
| nsh | anyone? https://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1708904 | 12:51 |
| nsh | http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165011405000576 | 12:51 |
| justanotheruser | nsh: http://www.filedropper.com/1-s20-s0165011405000576-main | 12:52 |
| nsh | thank you kindly | 12:52 |
| nsh | also this, if possible: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/227018798_ukasiewicz_Operations_in_Fuzzy_Set_and_Many-Valued_Representations_of_Quantum_Logics | 12:54 |
| nsh | to wit http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1026462019270 | 12:54 |
| justanotheruser | nsh: http://www.filedropper.com/art3a1010232fa3a1026462019270 | 12:56 |
| nsh | \o/ much obliged \o/ | 12:56 |
| nsh | context (private correspondence): | 12:59 |
| nsh | -- | 12:59 |
| nsh | A recent personal journal entry: | 12:59 |
| nsh | Here is a paper I'd very much like to read, but can't gain access to: <A HREF="http://www.researchgate.net/publication/220528701_Emergence_of_fuzzy_preferences_for_risk_in_a_Birkhoff-von_Neumann_logics_environment">"Emergence of fuzzy preferences for risk in a Birkhoff-von Neumann logics environment"</A>, Emmanuel Haven, <I>Fuzzy Sets and Systems</I>, 153, January 2005, pp. 29-43. Quoting the Abstract: | 12:59 |
| nsh | 12:59 | |
| nsh | We show that if a portfolio of a financial derivative asset and a stock is put in an environment where the value of an asset (besides it price) is formalized as a superposition of price states, such portfolio may not be risk free and fuzzy preferences for risk primia may exist. We argue for a modification of the classical Brownian motion process as used in risk pricing. This modification on the classical Brownian motion, we call the bar-h^-Brownian motio | 12:59 |
| nsh | n and one specific format of this bar-h^-Brownian motion can be shown to have a connection with the quantum physical Schrodinger equation. | 12:59 |
| nsh | 12:59 | |
| nsh | What would become apparent if Lukasiewicz logics, understood independent of the notion truth-value, and not reduced to the real interval (0,1), a la ASKarpenko's functors, were intruded upon the elaborated version of the Birkhoff-vonNeumann lattice-logic conception, as given in, say, <A HREF="http://www.researchgate.net/publication/227018798_ukasiewicz_Operations_in_Fuzzy_Set_and_Many-Valued_Representations_of_Quantum_Logics">"Lukasiewicz Operations in Fuz | 12:59 |
| nsh | zy Set and Many-Valued Representations of Quantum Logic"</A>, Jaroslaw Pykacz, <I>Foundations of Physics</I>, 30(9), August 2008, pp. 1503-1524, where Lukasiewicz is treated relative to probability amplitudes? Quoting this abstract: | 12:59 |
| nsh | 12:59 | |
| nsh | It is shown that Birkhoff-von Neumann quantum logic (i.e., an orthomodular lattice or poset) possessing an ordering set of probability measures S can be isomorphically represented as a family of fuzzy subsets of S. . . | 12:59 |
| nsh | 12:59 | |
| nsh | Would Haven's "fuzzy preferences" relative to financial derivatives become functional equivalents to the preference functions underlying <A HREF="http://www.anthrosites.com/moonhoabinh/sfepapers/planning.html">Adolf Lowe</A>'s "instrumental inference" and suddenly appear as informatives to the value-stack sheaving to be deployed in uTm-valued LETS nesting foams? Is this a route to transformations of financial derivatives into-onto Lukasiewiczian LETS? | 12:59 |
| nsh | --- | 12:59 |
| nsh | .wik Lukasiewicz logics | 12:59 |
| yoleaux | "In mathematics, Łukasiewicz logic (/luːkəˈʃɛvɪtʃ/; Polish pronunciation: [wukaˈɕɛvʲitʂ]) is a non-classical, many valued logic. It was originally defined in the early 20th-century by Jan Łukasiewicz as a three-valued logic; it was later generalized to n-valued (for all finite n) as well as infinitely-many-valued (ℵ0-valued) variants, both …" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81ukasiewicz_logic | 12:59 |
| nsh | his paper is called "Can Planning Be a Coherent Free Market Behavior?" | 13:00 |
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| nmz787_i | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165011405000576 | 13:04 |
| nsh | (i think about this kind of stuff a fair amount in the context of cryptocurrencies as vehicle for rich distributed information processing by autonomous economic actors as direct-democratic macroeconomic planning) | 13:04 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Emergence%20of%20fuzzy%20preferences%20for%20risk%20in%20a%20Birkhoffvon%20Neumann%20logics%20environment%0A%20.pdf | 13:05 |
| nmz787_i | nsh: gotta ask to receive sometimes ^ | 13:05 |
| nmz787_i | nsh: though I see justanotheruser got it too | 13:05 |
| nsh | oh, sorry i thought it worked with , | 13:05 |
| * nsh blames hexchat | 13:05 | |
| nmz787_i | no | 13:05 |
| nsh | ty | 13:05 |
| nmz787_i | it doesn't do researchgate, as there aren't pdfs there usually | 13:06 |
| nsh | right, assumed as much | 13:06 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165011405000576 | 13:06 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1026462019270 | 13:06 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Emergence%20of%20fuzzy%20preferences%20for%20risk%20in%20a%20Birkhoffvon%20Neumann%20logics%20environment%0A%20.pdf | 13:07 |
| kanzure | and? | 13:09 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1026462019270 | 13:09 |
| justanotheruser | are any respectable journals public domain? | 13:09 |
| nmz787_i | paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1023/A:1026462019270 | 13:09 |
| justanotheruser | or at least a non-restrictive license | 13:09 |
| nmz787_i | deadjournal... oh wait, that's dead | 13:10 |
| nmz787_i | paperbot: http://rd.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1023%2FA%3A1026462019270.pdf | 13:10 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: plos? | 13:10 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: plos? | 13:10 |
| nmz787_i | plos maybe | 13:10 |
| kanzure | ... plos one? | 13:11 |
| justanotheruser | plos is just a collection of journals? | 13:11 |
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| delinquentme | paperbot, http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v507/n7491/full/nature13118.html | 13:12 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnature13118 | 13:12 |
| nmz787_i | kanzure: I noticed some of my logins expired recently | 13:12 |
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| kanzure | that explains a lot | 13:13 |
| nmz787_i | i tried renewing one but their web form didn't seem to be working, though it was probably late at night so they could have been updating something and that's why it seemed broken | 13:14 |
| nmz787_i | 'The primary purpose of GCL during that phase of it's existence was to support the Maxima computer algebra system, also maintained by Dr. Schelter. It existed largely as a subproject of Maxima.' | 13:16 |
| nmz787_i | http://maxima.sourceforge.net/ | 13:17 |
| nmz787_i | 'Maxima is a system for the manipulation of symbolic and numerical expressions, including differentiation, integration, Taylor series, Laplace transforms, ordinary differential equations, systems of linear equations, polynomials, and sets, lists, vectors, matrices, and tensors. Maxima yields high precision numeric results by using exact fractions, arbitrary precision integers, and variable precision floating point numbers. Maxima | 13:17 |
| nmz787_i | can plot functions and data in two and three dimensions.' | 13:17 |
| nmz787_i | 'Maxima is a descendant of Macsyma, the legendary computer algebra system developed in the late 1960s at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. It is the only system based on that effort still publicly available and with an active user community, thanks to its open source nature. Macsyma was revolutionary in its day, and many later systems, such as Maple and Mathematica, were inspired by it' | 13:17 |
| archels | justanotheruser: PLoS, Frontiers | 13:21 |
| justanotheruser | interesting | 13:24 |
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| heath | .title http://dev.mixrad.io/blog/2014/10/19/Clojure-libraries/ | 13:35 |
| yoleaux | MixRadio Developers - Using Clojure At MixRadio | 13:35 |
| justanotheruser | what gives a journal integrity? Historically publishing articles that have been properly peer reviewed? | 13:44 |
| kanzure | lots and lots of bullshit | 13:48 |
| kanzure | brand, basically | 13:48 |
| kanzure | entrenchment | 13:48 |
| nmz787_i | justanotheruser: that seems reasonable... negative reviews of a journal would stand out as more influential to me than positive reviews | 13:48 |
| kanzure | you can't just show up and be like "sup bitches pay me $50k/mo for my journal" | 13:48 |
| chris_99 | lol | 13:49 |
| nmz787_i | integrity re articles would also related to publishing retractions and stuff like that | 13:49 |
| kanzure | http://retractionwatch.com/ is interesting | 13:49 |
| kanzure | hehehe "Quantum physics paper pulled for “serious theoretical errors,” notice accidentally paywalled" | 13:50 |
| nmz787_i | is this the reduce that is part of the term 'map reduce'? http://reduce-algebra.sourceforge.net/ | 13:51 |
| nmz787_i | http://www.maths.adelaide.edu.au/anthony.roberts/legofractals.php | 13:53 |
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| delinquentme | sup bitches pay me $20k/mo for my journal ... ? | 13:58 |
| delinquentme | plz | 13:58 |
| delinquentme | lololol | 13:58 |
| kanzure | that's seriously how it goes down | 13:59 |
| kanzure | http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k77982&tabgroupid=icb.tabgroup143448 | 14:00 |
| kanzure | i haven't seen anyone attempting to estimate how much a journal should actually cost | 14:03 |
| kanzure | assume that the publisher is actually doing stuff, like paying editors and artists | 14:03 |
| kanzure | in the most gratuitous manner | 14:03 |
| kanzure | like assume 3-4 artists per paper or something | 14:03 |
| kanzure | and 4 editors and 20 reviewers | 14:03 |
| kanzure | and also imagine that they pay all of those | 14:03 |
| kanzure | plus some costs for software, infrastructure, salary, management, whatever. | 14:03 |
| kanzure | now how much does that really total up to? | 14:03 |
| delinquentme | its also semi-solved and not that interesting | 14:04 |
| delinquentme | I mean ... do you want to be in science journalism? | 14:04 |
| kanzure | is it $40k/year for every library in the world? .. that's at least $40k * 1k libraries =~ $3.3M/mo | 14:04 |
| kanzure | it's not solved at all. these journals haven't budged. | 14:05 |
| bkero | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v456/n7221/pdf/456446a.pdf | 14:06 |
| bkero | kanzure: you have a way of pulling papers from nature? | 14:07 |
| kanzure | paperbot usually does it | 14:09 |
| fenn | bkero: http://fennetic.net/irc/456446a.pdf | 14:09 |
| bkero | fenn: <3 | 14:09 |
| kanzure | fenn: can you write some unit tests for paperbot v2 :( | 14:09 |
| kanzure | it's just not getting done | 14:09 |
| fenn | where's paperbot v2? | 14:10 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot | 14:10 |
| kanzure | same repo, but in the paperbot/ folder | 14:10 |
| kanzure | everything in paperbot/ is just a python library (without the irc parts yet) | 14:10 |
| kanzure | (because the paper-fetching-handling code should probably have nothing to do with irc) | 14:11 |
| fenn | class BaseTestCase(unittest.TestCase): pass | 14:11 |
| fenn | hmm | 14:11 |
| kanzure | technically you're not wrong | 14:12 |
| fenn | no i mean its just a pointless class | 14:12 |
| kanzure | technically you're not wrong | 14:12 |
| fenn | ok | 14:12 |
| kanzure | i think the goal should be to optimize in the laziest way possible the choice of which things to test | 14:13 |
| kanzure | or the most faily parts of paperbot | 14:13 |
| kanzure | (and not 100% coverage just for the sake of testing stuff) | 14:14 |
| fenn | given that paperbot's main role is to interact with the internet, does it make sense to include sample web pages? | 14:15 |
| kanzure | yes? | 14:15 |
| kanzure | unit tests should never actually touch the internet | 14:15 |
| kanzure | it's true that it would be useful to test if all of the parsers are still working for each target site, but i think that should be some other test mode | 14:16 |
| fenn | yeah that is more like regression testing | 14:16 |
| kanzure | testing against local html files? i suppose so | 14:18 |
| fenn | somewhere in the western united states... a server is crying | 14:20 |
| kanzure | only other thing to test is stuff like downloaditer | 14:21 |
| fenn | dunno what that is | 14:21 |
| kanzure | it's a function in one of the files | 14:25 |
| kanzure | it yields under various conditions (maybe) (this is not tested) | 14:25 |
| kanzure | um i maybe mean iterdownload | 14:25 |
| fenn | heh "Maybe you're also supposed to have some sort of insurance insurance that goes and breaks your insurance company's legs if they don't keep to their contracts." | 14:32 |
| fenn | i'd buy that | 14:33 |
| jrayhawk_ | justanotheruser: massively disruptive to the cephalic stage of digestion, and as a fermentable polyol it will also be a microbiome disruptor | 14:35 |
| jrayhawk_ | http://vimeo.com/52645372 is a good presentation on how to conceptualize a null hypothesis of how sugar consumption is supposed to work | 14:39 |
| jrayhawk_ | ( i guess some useful addendums to that would be phenolics http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/02/polyphenols-hormesis-and-disease-part-i.html http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/02/polyphenols-hormesis-and-disease-part.html and understanding that cephalic caloric estimation is not really practical with thin liquids) | 14:43 |
| fenn | he's not here now | 14:47 |
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| fenn | justanotheruser: tail http://gnusha.org/logs/2014-10-27.log | 15:03 |
| fenn | i have no idea why jrayhawk_ is talking about polyphenols or polyols since aspartame is neither | 15:04 |
| kanzure | http://blog.coinalytics.co/moolah-blockchain-investigation | 15:06 |
| fenn | my understanding of "why polyphenols are good" is that they are made up of flavonoids which lower blood sugar in an insulin-independent manner | 15:08 |
| fenn | "Proanthocyanidins are mostly polymeric units of catechin and epicatechin." | 15:09 |
| jrayhawk_ | The formation of a good working null hypothesis for how sugar is supposed to work necessarily involves phenolics. | 15:17 |
| fenn | i didnt watch the video | 15:17 |
| jrayhawk_ | Apparently. | 15:17 |
| justanotheruser | weird | 15:18 |
| jrayhawk_ | What's weird? | 15:22 |
| fenn | wtf is "energy overload" | 15:28 |
| kanzure | a really bad drink | 15:31 |
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| nmz787_i | fenn: when your circuits just blew | 15:36 |
| fenn | justanotheruser: i'm going to go ahead and say that aspartame is safe at normal doses, but potentially mildly addictive stimulant | 15:37 |
| nmz787_i | stimulant? | 15:37 |
| * delinquentme drinks more | 15:38 | |
| nmz787_i | I've never heard of grumy kids jonesing for nutrasweet packets | 15:38 |
| fenn | due to increasing levels of adrenaline norepinephrine and dopamine | 15:38 |
| nmz787_i | 'quick let's go rip off the lunch room' | 15:38 |
| fenn | i've seen lots of anorexic girls addicted to diet coke | 15:38 |
| nmz787_i | s/grumy/grimy/ | 15:38 |
| nmz787_i | fenn: aren't they addicted to being skinny though? | 15:38 |
| kanzure | what part of anorexic did you miss | 15:39 |
| fenn | it has more of an effect when you aren't eating any protein | 15:39 |
| fenn | the blood brain barrier is non-selective about what amino acids it transports | 15:39 |
| fenn | so when you dump a specific amino acid (i.e. phenylalanine) into the blood, its relative concentration in the brain goes up, as does its metabolites | 15:40 |
| fenn | if there are already a bunch of amino acids floating around, they act as a buffer | 15:40 |
| fenn | that's my theory at least | 15:41 |
| nmz787_i | and then your body goes ahead with gluconeogenesis and BAM... anorexic person just got calorified | 15:42 |
| nmz787_i | FAIL | 15:42 |
| fenn | people think aspartame is not safe because "chemicals are evil" and they've rationalized this by tying the aspartic acid component of it to the "monosodium glutamate is bad for you" theory (which has never been backed up by any evidence) | 15:42 |
| nmz787_i | well chinese restaurant syndrome is a thing | 15:42 |
| fenn | no, it's just people being hysterical | 15:42 |
| nmz787_i | but that can be generalized to impulses/spikes relative to normal... which pretty much any compound exhibits | 15:43 |
| fenn | glutamate might have an effect on people with glutamate/gaba balance issues already, like (maybe) schizophrenia or bipolar disorder | 15:43 |
| fenn | but i've never seen any evidence | 15:43 |
| nmz787_i | meh, i believe the literature since it goes back like 60 or more years re MSG... but it generally seemed like a 'duh' moment after I finished reading all the stuff I read | 15:44 |
| fenn | "chinese restaurant syndrome" sounds to me like a food allergy | 15:44 |
| nmz787_i | 'duh' being, oh you just ate a bunch of isolated chemical boosting concentrations to non-normal levels and of course there will be some non-normal effect | 15:44 |
| nmz787_i | nah it was the original NEJM paper | 15:45 |
| nmz787_i | New England Journal of Medicine | 15:45 |
| fenn | yes i know | 15:45 |
| fenn | "A food additive called monosodium glutamate (MSG) has been blamed, but it has not been proven to be the substance that causes this condition." | 15:45 |
| fenn | "[since 1968] many studies have failed to show a connection between MSG and the symptoms that some people describe after eating Chinese food." | 15:46 |
| nmz787_i | I liked the paper that showed greater gut clearance with low-levels of MSG supplement in old-age home old-folks food | 15:46 |
| fenn | chest pain, flushing, sweating, headache, numbness or burning in and around the mouth, sense of facial pressure or swelling | 15:47 |
| nmz787_i | all seems reasonable for the spike levels the subjects were subjected to | 15:47 |
| fenn | sounds like an allergy or chemical toxicity | 15:47 |
| nmz787_i | I get that when my capsacin level spikes | 15:47 |
| fenn | yeah or spicy food | 15:47 |
| nmz787_i | or when my pixy-stick tank gets too low | 15:48 |
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| fenn | i have no idea what that means | 15:48 |
| nmz787_i | guzzle a pixy stick and tell me if you feel OK | 15:48 |
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| fenn | it causes flushing, sweating, swelling of the face? | 15:48 |
| fenn | isnt it just sugar? | 15:49 |
| fenn | "The ingredients in Pixy Stix are as follows: Dextrose, Citric Acid, less than 2% artificial and natural flavors. Pixy Stix do not contain protein or essential vitamins or minerals." | 15:49 |
| fenn | "The non-resealable straw pouring loose candy powder in the hands of children led to routine objections from parents. During the 1960s a solid version of the confection formula was created from Pixy Stix named SweeTarts and grew in popularity with other hard packed candies, which caused Pixy Stix to become almost extinct." | 15:50 |
| fenn | do you have the same reaction to sweet tarts? | 15:50 |
| nmz787_i | when I eat half a kilo in a setting, yes | 15:52 |
| fenn | in 1968 the concept of "chinese food" or anything besides bland fucking meat and potatoes was a wild foreign concept | 15:52 |
| fenn | i dont know if szechuan pepper was available then or not.. but it also causes mouth numbness | 15:53 |
| fenn | if szechuan was the cause it would explain the difficulty in replicating these symptoms, since it was banned for import to the US | 15:54 |
| nmz787_i | i ate szechuan pepper like a month ago here | 15:55 |
| nmz787_i | all the glorious numbness too | 15:55 |
| fenn | "they produce a strange, tingling, buzzing, numbing sensation that is something like the effect of carbonated drinks or of a mild electrical current (touching the terminals of a nine-volt battery to the tongue). Sanshools appear to act on several different kinds of nerve endings at once, induce sensitivity to touch and cold in nerves that are ordinarily nonsensitive, and so perhaps cause a kind | 15:56 |
| fenn | of general neurological confusion." | 15:56 |
| fenn | heh "From 1968 to 2005, the United States Food and Drug Administration banned the importation of Sichuan peppercorns because they were found to be capable of carrying citrus canker" | 15:57 |
| nmz787_i | ah | 15:57 |
| fenn | shouldnt that be the USDA | 15:58 |
| nmz787_i | big juice conspiracy | 15:58 |
| jrayhawk_ | I haven't seen any glutamate RCTs yet, but it's at least pretty suspicious. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19170689 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25030431 http://www.neurology.org/content/57/9/1618.short | 16:13 |
| jrayhawk_ | the functional medicine crowd treats inflammation-induced BBB permeability plus evolutionarily novel highly bioavailable sources of glutamate as the worry | 16:14 |
| jrayhawk_ | e.g. proteolyzed proteins, dairy, etc. | 16:15 |
| jrayhawk_ | I've always thought that was a bit weird since I would expect a decent amount of glutamate to be freed by stomach acid | 16:16 |
| jrayhawk_ | http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-06/foas-wil060214.php on BBB permeability | 16:17 |
| jrayhawk_ | http://www.fasebj.org/content/28/6/2551.abstract | 16:17 |
| jrayhawk_ | '15:28 < fenn> wtf is "energy overload"' mitochondrial oxidative stress inducing insulin resistance | 16:18 |
| fenn | people start "reacting" to glutamate before its even past the stomach tho | 16:21 |
| jrayhawk_ | well, some people are legitimately allergic to some types | 16:23 |
| jrayhawk_ | my dad, for instance, has an intense MSG allergy | 16:23 |
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| fenn | how did he determine he was allergic to MSG? | 16:25 |
| jrayhawk_ | I didn't ask. | 16:26 |
| fenn | well, one thing i'm learning is that food has a lot of shit added to it that's not on the label | 16:26 |
| jrayhawk_ | and i suppose the cephalic stage does induce all sorts of interesting physiological effects, but I don't know much about the glutamate system, there. | 16:28 |
| jrayhawk_ | Presumably it's pretty important since we have an actual taste receptor for it. | 16:28 |
| fenn | i get what i think are migraines from most brands of dodorant | 16:29 |
| fenn | deodorant* | 16:29 |
| fenn | dodorant would be an atheist punk band | 16:29 |
| jrayhawk_ | i wonder why that taste has such a dumb name | 16:30 |
| fenn | because we didnt have a word in english | 16:31 |
| jrayhawk_ | we had "glutamate" | 16:31 |
| jrayhawk_ | seems good enough | 16:31 |
| fenn | .ety savory | 16:32 |
| yoleaux | savory (adj.): ""pleasing in taste or smell," c.1200, from Old French savore "tasty, flavorsome" (Modern French savouré), past participle of savourer "to taste" (see savor (n.))." — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=savory | 16:32 |
| fenn | not specific enough i guess | 16:32 |
| fenn | oh apparently it wasn't even a japanese word | 16:33 |
| * fenn shrugs | 16:33 | |
| jrayhawk_ | really? where the devil did it come from? | 16:34 |
| fenn | was chosen by Professor Kikunae Ikeda from umai (うまい) "delicious" and mi (味) "taste". The kanji 旨味 are used for a more general sense of a food as delicious. | 16:34 |
| jrayhawk_ | oh, close enough | 16:34 |
| fenn | i've heard people say "umai" about candy and ice cream | 16:35 |
| fenn | "GMP and IMP amplify the taste intensity of glutamate." | 16:37 |
| jrayhawk_ | i guess "umami" had a lot of inertia because the west fell behind on research due to skepticism | 16:37 |
| fenn | if the receptor is more active in the presence of purines it's not really a glutamate receptor? | 16:38 |
| fenn | biology is just a pile of hacks anyway | 16:39 |
| fenn | In 1957, Akira Kuninaka realized that the ribonucleotide GMP present in shiitake mushrooms also conferred the umami taste. One of Kuninaka's most important discoveries was the synergistic effect between ribonucleotides and glutamate. When foods rich in glutamate are combined with ingredients that have ribonucleotides, the resulting taste intensity is higher than the sum of both ingredients. | 16:40 |
| fenn | i wonder what AMP tastes like | 16:43 |
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| fenn | oh also worth noting is that glutamate doesn't really taste like anything. it really is a "flavor enhancer" and not a separate flavor | 16:45 |
| fenn | this could explain why there wasnt a word | 16:48 |
| fenn | i dont get why fatty isn't a flavor | 16:49 |
| drethelin | isn't that umami | 16:50 |
| drethelin | no wait | 16:50 |
| drethelin | that's meaty | 16:50 |
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| fenn | "Recent research reveals a potential taste receptor called the CD36 receptor that reacts to fat" | 16:52 |
| fenn | ffs it only gets one line in this whole article | 16:52 |
| drethelin | hehe | 16:53 |
| jrayhawk_ | fat is delicious | 16:53 |
| chris_99 | interesting fenn | 16:54 |
| fenn | why do we insist on stupid dogma like "the five senses" or "the nine planets" | 16:55 |
| kanzure | fatty should definitely be a flavor | 16:55 |
| drethelin | because aristotle | 16:56 |
| drethelin | and the nine planets are because people fucking hate going back on shit they were indoctrinated in | 16:56 |
| kanzure | maybe it's just "anti-lean cut flavor" | 16:56 |
| drethelin | at age 5 | 16:56 |
| chris_99 | can carbohydrate-y be a flavour too then | 16:56 |
| jrayhawk_ | i don't think "the five senses" has been dogma in the past couple decades | 16:56 |
| jrayhawk_ | chris_99: "sweet" plus salivary amylase mostly does that | 16:56 |
| chris_99 | true | 16:56 |
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| jrayhawk_ | doesn't provide coverage for polysacharrides, but those don't really count anyway | 16:56 |
| fenn | if pluto is a planet than luna is too | 16:58 |
| fenn | then* | 16:58 |
| fenn | not to mention ceres, etc | 16:58 |
| chris_99 | lets just make everything a planet | 16:59 |
| fenn | "It is estimated that there are hundreds to thousands of dwarf planets in the Solar System." | 17:00 |
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| fenn | "On 22 January 2014, ESA scientists reported the detection, for the first definitive time, of water vapor on Ceres" | 17:02 |
| fenn | that's a big deal because it means it's habitable | 17:02 |
| chris_99 | on a related note - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2809183/We-universe-Professor-Brian-Cox-says-alien-life-impossible-humanity-unique.html <-- i can't see how he could think that | 17:03 |
| drethelin | eh | 17:04 |
| drethelin | at this point behaving as if we're unique is pretty reasaonable | 17:04 |
| drethelin | also he only said galaxy, not universe | 17:04 |
| chris_99 | really? | 17:04 |
| drethelin | I mean, it's not like we can really do anything different | 17:05 |
| drethelin | one way or the other | 17:05 |
| drethelin | about it | 17:05 |
| fenn | pretty much all of "wonders of the solar system" (his previous documentary) is speculating about life on other planets | 17:05 |
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| jrayhawk_ | daily mail | 17:07 |
| chris_99 | heh, yeah sorry about the source | 17:07 |
| fenn | "We live on a world of wonders. A place of astonishing beauty and complexity. We have vast oceans and incredible weather. Giant mountains and breath-taking landscapes. | 17:07 |
| fenn | If you think that this is all there is, that our planet exists in magnificent isolation, then you're wrong. We're part of a much wider ecosystem, that extends way beyond the top of our atmosphere. | 17:07 |
| fenn | -- brian cox" | 17:07 |
| chris_99 | ah ok, so the DM article is rather misleading | 17:08 |
| jrayhawk_ | daily mail? misleading? | 17:09 |
| fenn | The final installment covers life surviving in extreme environments, and how the search for life on other worlds follows the search for water, focusing on Mars, and on Jupiter's moon Europa. Cox begins by travelling to the deep ocean to draw comparisons between space travel. | 17:09 |
| fenn | but hey it got me to click on the link | 17:09 |
| chris_99 | heh | 17:09 |
| fenn | it does seem unlikely they just made up all these quotes though | 17:10 |
| fenn | all in all he's a much better carl sagan impersonator than neil degrasse tyson | 17:14 |
| chris_99 | can you recommend any books from sagan? | 17:15 |
| fenn | i've been meaning to re-read "dragons of eden" again, but it's more about neuroscience and evolution | 17:16 |
| kanzure | fenn, what was your proposal regarding my broken scarcity supply chain thing again? i forgot the exact wording | 17:19 |
| fenn | um, about the futility of snapshots in altcoins? | 17:19 |
| kanzure | no the other thing | 17:19 |
| * justanotheruser snorts a packet of splenda | 17:19 | |
| kanzure | forgeries | 17:19 |
| fenn | for the last time splenda is not aspartame | 17:20 |
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| fenn | more context please kanzure | 17:21 |
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| fenn | oh the stickers to guarantee authentic physical products | 17:21 |
| justanotheruser | fenn: you sayin my drug dealer sold me fake aspertame? | 17:21 |
| fenn | my proposal was to include crypto hardware inside the products to do challenge/response authentication | 17:22 |
| fenn | it doesnt work for bulk materials | 17:22 |
| fenn | justanotheruser: if you wanna develop autism, just hang out on /b/ | 17:23 |
| kanzure | no the one where there was no hardware component rfid sticker thing | 17:23 |
| justanotheruser | fenn: I did that between ages 14 and 18 | 17:23 |
| fenn | kanzure: that's what i'm talking about, it's literally part of the product, like a section of an important chip on the motherboard | 17:24 |
| chris_99 | fenn, heard of PUF | 17:24 |
| chris_99 | that can sort of od this | 17:25 |
| fenn | heard of RUF http://www.ruf.dk/index2011.htm | 17:25 |
| chris_99 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_unclonable_function | 17:25 |
| chris_99 | heh | 17:26 |
| fenn | "it is infeasible to construct a PUF with the same challenge–response behavior as another given PUF because exact control over the manufacturing process is infeasible." | 17:29 |
| fenn | until it isn't | 17:29 |
| chris_99 | heh, there is one paper i've seen | 17:29 |
| fenn | i was thinking more like a private key stored in flash memory that dies if you try to uncap the chip | 17:29 |
| chris_99 | on attacks for particular PUFs | 17:29 |
| chris_99 | oh i know something like that | 17:29 |
| chris_99 | one sec | 17:29 |
| justanotheruser | I found this channel on reddit | 17:30 |
| fenn | justanotheruser: yes we know who to blame for that | 17:30 |
| chris_99 | look for this paper - https://mediatum.ub.tum.de/export/1172987/bibtex | 17:30 |
| chris_99 | it's a protective foil you place over chips etc., if its tampered with it effectively destroys the memory | 17:31 |
| justanotheruser | fenn: elfion? | 17:31 |
| fenn | justanotheruser: delinquentme | 17:31 |
| justanotheruser | this post? https://www.reddit.com/r/nanotech/comments/153l6g/how_close_or_far_away_are_we_from_reaching_eric_k/c7m0mhw | 17:31 |
| justanotheruser | no, he has this post, where he explicitly recruits people | 17:32 |
| justanotheruser | https://www.reddit.com/r/bioinformatics/comments/owgx0/im_recruiting_awesome_brains_for_a_few_irc/ | 17:32 |
| justanotheruser | I came here expecting nanoengineer-1 developers, stayed for gradstudentbot | 17:32 |
| chris_99 | were is gradstudentbot | 17:32 |
| fenn | peace be upon him | 17:32 |
| chris_99 | heh | 17:33 |
| justanotheruser | RIP | 17:33 |
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| justanotheruser | ##h+ is the most __________ community on the internet | 17:34 |
| fenn | ineffective | 17:34 |
| drethelin | boring | 17:35 |
| justanotheruser | then somehow this became bitcoin-wizards 1/10th of the time, which is good too | 17:35 |
| fenn | chris_99: flash memory is encoded with electrical charges in capacitors (basically) so it's hard to read without destroying it | 17:35 |
| chris_99 | there are ways | 17:36 |
| chris_99 | i think you can do it with lasers iirc | 17:36 |
| chris_99 | or at least they've done it for SRAM - http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/SISW02.pdf | 17:37 |
| fenn | ya i was just looking at that | 17:37 |
| chris_99 | that guy has done some v. cool side channel attack | 17:38 |
| chris_99 | stuff | 17:38 |
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| fenn | oh this optical PUF stuff is just laser speckle patterns | 17:39 |
| chris_99 | i've not looked at optic PUF stuff, only the ones created via racing electrons on silicon | 17:40 |
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| fenn | "placement of this opaque PUF in the top layer of an IC protects the underlying circuits from being inspected by an attacker, e.g. for reverse-engineering. When an attacker tries to remove (a part of) the coating, the capacitance between the wires is bound to change and the original unique identifier will be destroyed. It was shown how an unclonable RFID tag is built with coating PUFs" | 17:42 |
| fenn | the ID is encoded in wire capacitance | 17:43 |
| chris_99 | oops one sec | 17:43 |
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| chris_99 | the clever bit is how you compensate for temp. changes etc. | 17:44 |
| chris_99 | it's also obviously an analog function | 17:44 |
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| fenn | all of these depend on access to some central database of ID numbers | 17:45 |
| fenn | you cant just sign a chip | 17:45 |
| kanzure | right. | 17:45 |
| chris_99 | sure | 17:45 |
| kanzure | (on phone) | 17:45 |
| chris_99 | you precompute data from it | 17:45 |
| chris_99 | then send it out into the world | 17:45 |
| fenn | apparently you have to collect empirical data from each chip | 17:46 |
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| fenn | this is expensive and unlikely to be used for low value chips | 17:46 |
| chris_99 | it's not really | 17:47 |
| chris_99 | you can implement in fpgas | 17:47 |
| chris_99 | too | 17:47 |
| fenn | huh | 17:47 |
| fenn | i'm talking about making sure your keyboard doesn't have a hardware keylogger backdoor | 17:47 |
| chris_99 | i don't see how that's possible | 17:48 |
| fenn | i guess you could program your own fpga keyboard controller (assuming there is an open source fpga software stack) but it's kinda ridiculous | 17:48 |
| fenn | also the other 500 chips in a typical computer | 17:48 |
| chris_99 | how can you ever tell your keyboard doesn't have a logger in it? | 17:48 |
| fenn | if it has no data storage mechanism it can't store the data anywhere | 17:49 |
| chris_99 | how do you know that without decapping the chips | 17:49 |
| fenn | right | 17:49 |
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| fenn | .title http://youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g | 17:51 |
| yoleaux | She's a witch! - YouTube | 17:51 |
| drethelin | hmm | 17:53 |
| drethelin | I mean you could always keep your computer in a faraday cage | 17:54 |
| chris_99 | yeah, or that PEP foil we mentioned | 17:54 |
| chris_99 | cover the keyboard in it | 17:54 |
| chris_99 | and build the keyboard from your own transistors ;) | 17:55 |
| fenn | oops that was the wrong witch scene.. it's supposed to end with the witch drowning after they "prove" she's a witch and therefore should float | 17:56 |
| fenn | (since witches are made of wood because they burn, and ducks are also made of wood because they float) | 18:00 |
| jrayhawk_ | bedevere has a long career ahead of him in the soft sciences | 18:02 |
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| fenn | my bad the witch drowning was non-fiction: "Trial by ordeal was an ancient judicial practice by which the guilt or innocence of the accused was determined by subjecting them to an unpleasant, usually dangerous experience. Classically, the test was one of life or death and the proof of innocence was survival... or sometimes the reverse: see below, "Ordeal of cold water")." | 18:08 |
| chris_99 | yeah they did it in the UK afaik | 18:08 |
| fenn | "an accused who sank was considered innocent, while floating indicated witchcraft." | 18:09 |
| chris_99 | kind of ridiculous | 18:09 |
| fenn | about flavonoids and blood sugar, "The primary metabolic pathway inhibition mechanism of quercetin is to cause GLUT2 transport inhibition, which slows glucose absorption from the gut. ... The primary metabolic pathway inhibition mechanism of myricetin is to inhibit glucosidase, which inhibits or reduces the breakdown of starches, resulting in less available carbohydrates. The secondary mechanism | 18:18 |
| fenn | of myricetin is to stimulate GLUT4 pathway, which enhances the uptake of glucose into muscle and skeletal tissue" | 18:18 |
| fenn | i dont have any references for those statements tho | 18:19 |
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| jrayhawk_ | upregulation of antioxidant pathways is also important for maintaining insulin sensitivity in response to a large glucose bolus | 18:39 |
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| fenn | .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17178711 here's CD36 again in the context of mitochondrial antioxidants | 19:14 |
| yoleaux | fenn: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. | 19:14 |
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| fenn | (CD36 was the fat taste receptor) | 19:15 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17178711 | 19:16 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1074%2Fjbc.M609388200 | 19:16 |
| fenn | cephalic digestion indeed | 19:18 |
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| fenn | SS31 -- an antioxidant peptide developed in the laboratory of Weill Cornell Professor of Pharmacology Dr. Hazel Szeto | 19:26 |
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| fenn | "SS-31 Reverses Some Measures of Aging in Muscle ... There is a large body of research showing positive effects against Alzheimer's, high glucose, heart problems, the list goes on." | 19:29 |
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| fenn | "Skeletal muscle of aged mice was more fatigue resistant in situ one hour after SS-31 treatment and eight days of SS-31 treatment led to increased whole animal endurance capacity." | 19:29 |
| fenn | this is the same substance that protects against glucose intolerance and insulin resistance | 19:30 |
| fenn | where do i invest | 19:30 |
| kanzure | you need money first | 19:31 |
| fenn | oh yeah | 19:31 |
| kanzure | and then you need to navigate their particular social landscape to eventually "reach out to them" (it's gross) | 19:31 |
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| fenn | i didnt even realize there were academics in pharmacology | 19:32 |
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| fenn | developing drugs, i mean | 19:33 |
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| fenn | .title | 19:34 |
| yoleaux | 404 Not Found | 19:34 |
| fenn | hm | 19:35 |
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| fenn | "SS31 protects the retinas of diabetic rats, attenuates ischemic brain injury" | 19:40 |
| kanzure | "The largest study ever in the field, the experiment cost a total of $47 million and followed 2 participants for a total of 15 minutes on IRC." | 19:40 |
| drethelin | heh | 19:40 |
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| fenn | "SS31 peptide (H-D-Arg-Dmt-Lys-Phe-NH 2), accidentally discovered in studies on opioid receptor targeted peptides by Hazel H. Szeto and Peter W. Schiller" | 19:45 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X10021972 | 19:46 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Mitochondria-targeted%20antioxidant%20peptide%20SS31%20attenuates%20high%20glucose-induced%20injury%20on%20human%20retinal%20endothelial%20cells%0A%20.pdf | 19:46 |
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| fenn | that wasn't a pdf | 19:48 |
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| fenn | not sure what went wrong http://fennetic.net/irc/Mitochondria-targeted_antioxidant_peptide_SS31_attenuates_high_glucose-induced_injury_on_human_retinal_endothelial_cells.pdf | 19:51 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X10021972/pdf?md5=0fba424d7851ef2c77534823cedd4a9d&pid=1-s2.0-S0006291X10021972-main.pdf | 19:53 |
| fenn | paper is not worth reading fwiw | 19:56 |
| kanzure | "the SEC is also inquiring about any company that offered unregistered securities, even just on Bitcointalk. The SEC is reportedly employing researchers that track down the people and/or companies behind domains and Bitcointalk accounts associated with certain IPOs. The SEC is working closely with IRS accountants, the aforementioned researchers, and possibly FinCEN, who just clarified their virtual currency guidance in a way that might make ... | 19:57 |
| kanzure | ... prosecution much easier for the SEC." | 19:57 |
| kanzure | hehehe | 19:57 |
| fenn | why is that funny | 19:57 |
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| kanzure | "hehehe" is not "hahaha" it is more snickery | 19:58 |
| fenn | can't catch me i'm the stinky cheese man | 19:58 |
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| fenn | In "The Other Frog Prince", the princess kisses the frog: he says "I was just kidding," and hops back in the lake. | 20:01 |
| fenn | "The Really Ugly Duckling" grows up to be a Really Ugly Duck, rather than a swan. | 20:01 |
| fenn | In "The Tortoise and the Hair" he Hare says he can grow his hair (one on the top of his head) faster than the Tortoise can run. So they race, and race and race, this story has no ending | 20:02 |
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| kanzure | https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/sec-sends-inquiry-letters-hundreds-bitcoin-companies-unregistered-securities/ | 20:07 |
| kanzure | just an interesting thing to observe. mxcnow has good reasons to run i think. | 20:07 |
| fenn | DMT in that peptide is dimethyltyrosine | 20:07 |
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| fenn | part of the redacted letter asks the served Bitcoin companies to “stay quiet and treat it as confidential.” CoinFire claims to have received six of these SEC letters and that they all come from differing arms of the SEC | 20:10 |
| fenn | is it illegal to impersonate the SEC? | 20:10 |
| fenn | this reminds me of the IRS scam | 20:11 |
| kanzure | it is probably illegal to impersonate the SEC, yeah.. | 20:12 |
| fenn | i guess i'm confused about what the purpose of the SEC is supposed to be | 20:13 |
| kanzure | they are a shark with very few teeth | 20:13 |
| kanzure | patrick byrne has a very hilarious backstory with the sec and dtcc | 20:14 |
| fenn | "Typical infractions include insider trading, accounting fraud, and providing false or misleading information about securities and the companies that issue them." | 20:14 |
| kanzure | short version (30 minutes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A_HWaEnYQs | 20:14 |
| kanzure | the long version: http://www.deepcapture.com/the-story-of-deep-capture-part-2 | 20:14 |
| kanzure | (patrick byrne has now started using bitcoin for overstock.com and picked counterpartyd for a decentralized stock exchange) | 20:15 |
| fenn | "When the stock market crashed in October 1929, public confidence in the markets plummeted. Investors large and small, as well as the banks who had loaned to them, lost great sums of money in the ensuing Great Depression. There was a consensus that for the economy to recover, the public's faith in the capital markets needed to be restored. Congress held hearings to identify the problems and | 20:16 |
| fenn | search for solutions." | 20:16 |
| fenn | they tried to legislate away speculation bubbles? | 20:16 |
| kanzure | yes :) | 20:17 |
| drethelin | if only that were possible | 20:18 |
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| fenn | do these finance people really not have spies? jeez with all the money floating around how can they afford NOT to have at least one office worker in every firm on their payroll | 20:47 |
| kanzure | oh maybe they do | 20:51 |
| kanzure | what good would that do? | 20:51 |
| kanzure | is that even legal for the SEC? | 20:51 |
| fenn | probably not | 20:51 |
| fenn | i was talking about the hedge funds themselves | 20:51 |
| drethelin | spies might be less efficient than say, spending the same money speeding up their computers | 20:51 |
| drethelin | or paying it for a quant | 20:51 |
| fenn | that sounds really unlikely | 20:52 |
| drethelin | why? | 20:52 |
| fenn | because it assumes everyone is dealing honestly | 20:52 |
| drethelin | Not really | 20:52 |
| drethelin | mathematically analyzing the market should in theory work whether or not people are being honest | 20:52 |
| drethelin | noticing a pattern of dishonesty will still let you profit off it | 20:52 |
| kanzure | what | 20:53 |
| drethelin | if you're using a computer to analyze trading patterns | 20:54 |
| fenn | reading this "deep capture" article but have no idea what it's about | 20:54 |
| drethelin | the computer is agnostic to whether those patterns are honest or deceitful | 20:54 |
| drethelin | well up until they're designed to fuck with the computer | 20:54 |
| drethelin | but in terms of insider trading and stuff, it doesn't really care | 20:55 |
| justanotheruser | how many NE-1 devs are in here? | 20:55 |
| fenn | approximately none | 20:55 |
| fenn | why does the name Mark Sims sound familiar | 20:58 |
| drethelin | sounds kind of like the guy who wrote cerebus | 20:58 |
| fenn | that's Dave Sim | 20:58 |
| fenn | maybe i'm thinking Karl Sims, A-life researcher | 20:59 |
| kanzure | i pretend to be a nanoengineer dev | 21:00 |
| kanzure | and genehacker too | 21:00 |
| fenn | was eudoxia messing with it? | 21:01 |
| kanzure | kinda, but more like "gee it sure would be nice if kanzure would do this for me" | 21:01 |
| fenn | heh | 21:01 |
| kanzure | i can't carry the weight of the planet all on my own like that, | 21:01 |
| kanzure | there's just too much code to write | 21:01 |
| kanzure | too many industries to "disrupt" or whatever | 21:02 |
| drethelin | gotta disrupt the disruption industry | 21:04 |
| fenn | don't do that | 21:05 |
| kanzure | world health organization specifically forbids it | 21:05 |
| drethelin | disrupt the who | 21:10 |
| fenn | http://turtlepedia.wikia.com/wiki/Baxter_Stockman_(Mirage) | 21:15 |
| fenn | ninja turtles were originally a parody of cerberus | 21:15 |
| fenn | cerebus | 21:21 |
| justanotheruser | drethelin: yeah, the WHO | 21:22 |
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| kanzure | http://adsabs.harvard.edu/ | 21:40 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/adsabs/adsabs-dev-api | 21:40 |
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| fenn | is "abusive naked short selling" just a sybil attack? | 21:51 |
| fenn | "drive down a company's stock by offering an overwhelming number of shares for sale." (the shares don't actually exist) | 21:51 |
| kanzure | it's just double spending | 21:51 |
| fenn | the "naked" appears to mean they never had the shares in the first place | 21:52 |
| kanzure | correct | 21:52 |
| fenn | do shares not have ID numbers at all? | 21:53 |
| fenn | how can this possibly work | 21:53 |
| kanzure | well it doesn't work | 21:53 |
| fenn | how does a stock exchange verify that you are the owner of the stock you claim to own? | 21:54 |
| kanzure | doesn't work like that, they don't interface with customers or retail investors | 21:54 |
| kanzure | they use a settlement system like dtcc | 21:54 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depository_Trust_%26_Clearing_Corporation | 21:55 |
| kanzure | "Before DTC and NSCC were formed, brokers physically exchanged certificates, employing hundreds of messengers to carry certificates and checks. The mechanisms brokers used to transfer securities and keep records relied heavily on pen and paper. The exchange of physical stock certificates was difficult, inefficient, and increasingly expensive. In the late 1960s, with an unprecedented surge in trading leading to volumes of nearly 15 million ... | 21:55 |
| kanzure | ... shares a day on the NYSE in April 1968 (as opposed to 5 million a day just three years earlier, which at the time had been considered overwhelming), the paperwork burden became enormous.[3][4] Stock certificates were left for weeks piled haphazardly on any level surface, including filing cabinets and tables. Stocks were mailed to wrong addresses, or not mailed at all. Overtime and night work became mandatory. Turnover was 60% a year.[5] ... | 21:55 |
| kanzure | ... To deal with this large volume, which was overwhelming brokerage firms, the stock exchanges were forced to close every week (they chose every Wednesday), and trading hours were shortened on other days of the week." | 21:55 |
| fenn | this is all so confusing | 21:57 |
| fenn | why are people even trading stocks at all | 21:57 |
| kanzure | s/stocks/anything | 21:57 |
| drethelin | fun | 21:59 |
| drethelin | same reason people gamble | 21:59 |
| drethelin | but they're too smart for roulette | 21:59 |
| fenn | spices grow in india and keep meat from spoiling, so europeans send iron to india to trade for spices. everybody wins | 21:59 |
| fenn | why the fuck do we need to do this 90 million times a second | 21:59 |
| justanotheruser | fenn: to lower the buy/sell gap | 22:01 |
| kanzure | fenn: mostly those links and quotes were just for the sake of amusement | 22:03 |
| fenn | apparently the dtcc is important | 22:04 |
| fenn | and, "Several companies have sued the DTCC, without success, over delivery failures in their stocks" | 22:04 |
| kanzure | "In 2011, DTCC settled the vast majority of securities transactions in the United States and close to $1.7 quadrillion in value worldwide. In addition to settlement services, DTC retains custody of 3.5 million securities issues, worth about $40 trillion, including securities issued in the US and more than 110 other countries" | 22:05 |
| kanzure | http://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/29/nyregion/woman-dies-of-suffocation-after-locking-herself-in-a-vault.html | 22:05 |
| kanzure | how does your $40 trillion dollar vault not have a camera | 22:06 |
| kanzure | who designs this stuff? | 22:06 |
| fenn | "triggering a fire extinguishing system that filled the chamber with carbon dioxide" | 22:07 |
| drethelin | yeah I dunno if a camera would've saved her | 22:07 |
| kanzure | what about cries for help? | 22:08 |
| fenn | it should have a 'open the door' lever | 22:08 |
| kanzure | yes your vault is not designed to keep people locked in | 22:08 |
| kanzure | or shouldn't be... at least. | 22:08 |
| justanotheruser | damn, $1.7T | 22:08 |
| justanotheruser | or | 22:08 |
| justanotheruser | Q | 22:09 |
| kanzure | er... but what do i know. | 22:09 |
| justanotheruser | sounds like a movie should be made | 22:09 |
| drethelin | hard to design a very secure door that can be easily opened from either side | 22:09 |
| fenn | they could call it "127 seconds" | 22:09 |
| drethelin | any simple to actuate opening method is going to probably lead to a security hole | 22:09 |
| kanzure | too bad they couldn't afford any cryptographers | 22:10 |
| fenn | "girls just like to be cute and baby like and the diapers and plastic pants makes them feel pure and innocent like a baby" holy wtfbbq catholicism | 22:12 |
| drethelin | what | 22:13 |
| drethelin | I don't think that's a catholicism thing | 22:13 |
| fenn | " am 14 and just received my sacrement of confirmation this past may and per parish requirements had to wear a white,flower girl type dress with lace anklets and white shoes.after my bath i came into my room and my outfit was all laid out and there was a pair of toddler plastic pants laying on my bed and my mom picked them up and handed them to me and told me they bought them for me to wear under | 22:14 |
| fenn | my dress.i put them on and pulled them up my legs and they fit a little tight.the rest of my outfit was put on me and we went to the church.i felt a little weird having the plastic pants on under my dress.after talking to some of the other girls in my class,i wasnt the only girl with toddler plastic pants on under my dress.several other girls had them on also." | 22:14 |
| kanzure | off-topic. | 22:14 |
| fenn | yes very | 22:15 |
| fenn | sometimes when doing weird search queries you get weird responses | 22:16 |
| fenn | "i just wanted to know how long it takes to suffocate to death" | 22:16 |
| kanzure | clearly a question for smackjeeves | 22:17 |
| fenn | At high concentrations CO2 gas is a narcotic/anesthetic and a poison, therefore it is not a physiologically inert gas. It has been shown that pigs lose consciousness within 13 to 30 seconds. | 22:20 |
| kanzure | yeah but variables? | 22:25 |
| sheena | i missed all the previous conversation, but co2 is a nasty way to go most of the time | 22:25 |
| fenn | what variables | 22:25 |
| sheena | used to be commonly used in lab animal euthanasia, but that's changing slowly due to new research | 22:26 |
| kanzure | fenn: size of vault, how close the person was, etc | 22:26 |
| fenn | yes co2 is a hallucinogen that literally causes you to see the fires of hell | 22:26 |
| fenn | kanzure: huh? she was in the vault, the door was closed, the fire suppression system was activated, it could take a few seconds to activate but not more than a minute | 22:27 |
| fenn | "I used to maintain and tech support two major (not the major) stock exchanges in Switzerland and their number of trades was far, far below even a single trade per second." | 22:28 |
| kanzure | but really how many people are trading on the 3rd most popular exchange in switzerland of all places... | 22:29 |
| fenn | i have no idea.. but isnt switzerland a financial center in europe? | 22:30 |
| fenn | like NYC : chicago :: london : zurich | 22:32 |
| fenn | Located in Zürich, the Swiss Stock Exchange was established in 1877 and is nowadays the fourth most prominent stock exchange in the world. | 22:33 |
| kanzure | who's measuring prominence, really | 22:34 |
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| fenn | The exchange turnover generated at the SWX was in 2007 of 1,780,499.5 million CHF | 22:34 |
| fenn | .wa 1,780,499.5 million CHF in USD | 22:34 |
| yoleaux | fenn: Sorry, no result! | 22:34 |
| fenn | jeez | 22:34 |
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| kanzure | .wa 2 billion CHF in USD | 22:34 |
| yoleaux | convert CHF2 billion (Swiss francs) to US dollars: $2.106 billion (US dollars); Local currency conversion: euro1.658 billion (euros) (at current quoted rate); Exchange history for CHF2 billion (Swiss francs): ; 1-year minimum: $2.066 billion (06. October 2014: 22 days ago); 1-year maximum: $2.292 billion (17. March 2014: 7 months ago); 1-year average: $2.214 billion (annualized volatility: 5.4%) | 22:34 |
| kanzure | "CHF2" is a terrible way to write a number | 22:35 |
| fenn | should be 1.78 trillion USD | 22:36 |
| fenn | or something like that | 22:36 |
| fenn | that doesnt seem right | 22:37 |
| sheena | lol there is a hand written whiteboard sign above the washing machine in this house that says "Swiss money laundering services, give cash to conny" (conny being the lady owner of the house) | 22:37 |
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| fenn | another interesting molecule from that masterjohn talk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alagebrium | 23:16 |
| fenn | "scavenger of methylglyoxal" | 23:16 |
| justanotheruser | "advanced glycation endproducts (AGEs), thereby reversing one of the main mechanisms of aging." | 23:16 |
| justanotheruser | dat backronym | 23:16 |
| fenn | it's a real thing though | 23:17 |
| justanotheruser | yeah, a real thing defined through a backronym | 23:17 |
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| fenn | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maillard_reaction | 23:18 |
| fenn | Although the Maillard reaction has been studied most extensively in foods, it has also shown a correlation in numerous different diseases in the human body, in particular degenerative eye diseases. In general, these diseases are due to the accumulation of AGEs on nucleic acids, proteins, and lipids. | 23:18 |
| fenn | The adverse effects of AGE accumulation appear to be mediated by numerous different AGE receptors. Examples include AGE-R1, galectin-3, CD36, and, most noted, RAGE, the receptor for AGEs. | 23:20 |
| fenn | RAGE | 23:20 |
| fenn | cool you can still buy alagebrium http://www.iron-dragon.com/product_info.php?products_id=172 | 23:37 |
| --- Log closed Tue Oct 28 00:00:32 2014 | ||
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