| --- Log opened Tue Oct 28 00:00:32 2014 | ||
| fenn | some ranting about alagebrium and free markets https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2006/09/alteon-alagebri-1.php | 00:01 |
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| delinquentme | To say up till 2:30 am to ask questions on COMSOL HPC COMPUTINGGGG | 00:48 |
| delinquentme | or not | 00:48 |
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| kanzure | well looks like he didn't make it | 06:35 |
| kanzure | .title http://onerng.info/ | 06:51 |
| yoleaux | OneRNG - Hardware Random Number Generator | 06:51 |
| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8519801 | 06:51 |
| yoleaux | OneRNG – Open Hardware Random Number Generator | Hacker News | 06:51 |
| kanzure | the comments on http://avc.com/2014/10/sidechains/ get a little curious... "well since developers wont be able to trick users into financial vaporware as much, they wont be as incentivized to not care about bitcoin and this is bad" wut? | 06:55 |
| justanotheruser | " but computers have too few sources of truly random data for the demands we place upon them" | 06:58 |
| justanotheruser | Can't we just keep reusing the same random data? | 06:58 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: seems to be implying scammers are good for bitcoin | 06:59 |
| kanzure | reusing the same random data is pretty bad | 07:00 |
| kanzure | it's like generating a private key, then telling someone the exact entropy you used | 07:00 |
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| kanzure | dingo: good reasons to avoid ncurses? | 08:15 |
| kanzure | anyone have a good command line torrent client or daemon thingy? | 08:17 |
| kanzure | something suitable for servers | 08:18 |
| kanzure | for some reason libtorrent's example client has a gui? http://libtorrent.org/client_test.html | 08:18 |
| eudoxia | it looks like a hex editor | 08:19 |
| yoleaux | 23 Oct 2014 12:01Z <kanzure> eudoxia: https://github.com/eudoxia0/corona how can you tolerate waiting around for vagrant? | 08:19 |
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| kanzure | https://github.com/fagga/transmission-remote-cli | 08:21 |
| kanzure | "Given the messy implementation, adding functionality either causes new bugs that nobody wants to fix or it adds cruft that I won't be able to understand two weeks later because there's already so much cruft that mostly works but without any regards to the bigger picture. (Also, there is not much of a bigger picture, it's hacks all the way down (and maybe even up). Imagine a house that is hold together by the corpses in the drywall.)" | 08:21 |
| kanzure | well that's not encouraging | 08:22 |
| eudoxia | >a single 3700-line file | 08:23 |
| kanzure | pirates are bad programmers? | 08:23 |
| kanzure | who knew | 08:23 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: what do you mean waiting around for vagrant? as in, why am i not using docker? | 08:23 |
| kanzure | not specifically docker | 08:24 |
| eudoxia | it doesn't really take too long | 08:24 |
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| kanzure | well? | 08:24 |
| ParahSailin_ | pretty good auction http://auctions.tigergroup.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?tigergrp132/category/ALL | 08:25 |
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| dingo | < kanzure> dingo: good reasons to avoid ncurses? | 08:27 |
| dingo | no, just tedious, forces you to code like its 1980's | 08:27 |
| kanzure | "By default, aria2 opens at most 100 files mentioned in .torrent file, and directly writes to and reads from these files." | 08:27 |
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| kanzure | other thing: | 08:32 |
| ParahSailin_ | this was a pretty cool thing when i went to the preview http://auctions.tigergroup.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?tigergrp132/447 | 08:33 |
| kanzure | how do you know whether or not to pull or rebuild a vagrant box (or docker container for that matter) when you switch to a different git branch on a project? assume that you had a previous vagrant box that was built from a previous branch correctly. | 08:33 |
| kanzure | s/previous branch/previous commit | 08:33 |
| eudoxia | you diff the Vagrantfile? | 08:34 |
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| kanzure | i was hoping for some more automated solution | 08:38 |
| kanzure | for example, in rails land, developers came up with some nifty scripts to automatically switch out databases between branches so that schema changes in one branch don't impact your work on another. | 08:39 |
| eudoxia | wait, are you talking about regular Vagrant or Corona? | 08:40 |
| kanzure | actually i'm talking about docker | 08:41 |
| kanzure | but the same problem exists when using vagrant | 08:41 |
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| kanzure | i are smart: http://stackoverflow.com/a/26612694/687783 | 08:50 |
| kanzure | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8520954 "Technically your browser downloads content of course, but provided the content is only viewed whilst you are in the browser and not retained following the end of your browser session (or were merely retained in your cache), this would not constitute a download for the purposes of putting a user outside the exception to infringement under Art 5(1)." | 08:57 |
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| nmz787_i1 | at first glance the name of this band appears 'like Vietnamese' to me "Tír na nÓg" though it is actually Irish | 09:42 |
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| kanzure | https://github.com/gordonwritescode/coalescent "express-like framework for p2p applications" | 09:44 |
| heath | don't they call that OTP? | 09:47 |
| heath | if they mean 'express-like' to mean easy | 09:47 |
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| heath | that and/or riak_core | 09:48 |
| eudoxia | but this is for node.js, so if you write an app with it, it has HN front page potential | 09:49 |
| kanzure | https://medium.com/@abrkn/partial-payments-ripple-stellar-vulnerability-in-the-wild-29aaefd8a7ac | 09:50 |
| kanzure | https://forum.ripple.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8135&start=10 | 09:50 |
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| kanzure | haha https://github.com/ripple/gatewayd/issues/186 "for now this is not supported" but it was enabled? | 09:54 |
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| kanzure | "plasma deposition of metals onto frameworks/scaffolds" | 10:33 |
| heath | curl https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/japan-wants-bitcoin-friendly-country/ | unfluff | python -m json.tool | pygmentize -l javascript | 10:40 |
| * heath needs a better way of doing this | 10:41 | |
| heath | https://github.com/ageitgey/node-unfluff for anyone not familiar with unfluff | 10:44 |
| heath | "platform for trading on the forex market" https://github.com/slawekj/wolf | 10:47 |
| heath | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SkdfdXWYaI | 10:50 |
| yoleaux | Using Python to Code by Voice - YouTube | 10:50 |
| heath | https://github.com/tgrosinger/aenea-grammars | 10:50 |
| heath | https://github.com/tgrosinger/dotfiles/blob/master/.vimrc | 10:50 |
| heath | last 3 links all related | 10:50 |
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| kanzure | https://soundcloud.com/gai-barone/gai-barone-patterns-097 | 11:16 |
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| nmz787_i1 | I don't trust any of these 'interesting stuff' extractors... | 12:17 |
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| nmz787_i1 | for stupid stuff, sure... maybe for a quick glance at the onset of datamining, but I certainly wouldn't trust that any of them were 100% | 12:17 |
| nmz787_i1 | for extracting info from scientific stuff, with nuanced language, etc | 12:18 |
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| kanzure | there should be an epistemology of nuancy | 12:19 |
| kanzure | or a philosophy at least | 12:19 |
| kanzure | 34 minutes is okay https://soundcloud.com/gai-barone/gai-barone-patterns-096 | 12:26 |
| kanzure | but i can't identify it.. so.. | 12:27 |
| nmz787_i1 | wow, just found someone responded to a years-old researchGate paper request... am very happy to find it | 12:40 |
| nmz787_i1 | 'A Differential Medium for the isolation of Kluyveromyces marxianus and Kluyveromyces lactis from Dairy Products' | 12:41 |
| nmz787_i1 | paperbot: http://http://dx.doi.org/10.1039/c4lc00740a | 12:46 |
| nmz787_i1 | paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1039/c4lc00740a | 12:46 |
| paperbot | ConnectionError: HTTPConnectionPool(host='http', port=80): Max retries exceeded with url: //dx.doi.org/10.1039/c4lc00740a (Caused by <class 'socket.gaierror'>: [Errno -2] Name or service not known) (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 375, in send) | 12:46 |
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| nmz787_i1 | paperbot: http://dx.doi.org/10.1039/c4lc00740a | 12:48 |
| nmz787_i1 | paperbot: http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2014/LC/C4LC00740A | 12:49 |
| nmz787_i1 | hah, DB-9 microfluidic connector http://static.wixstatic.com/media/aec75c_2de26867692742a69f9798fd389569a3.jpg_srz_p_201_251_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz | 12:50 |
| nmz787_i1 | paperbot: http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2014/lc/c3lc51360b#!divAbstract | 12:51 |
| nmz787_i1 | I think I killed paperbot somehow | 12:52 |
| * nmz787_i1 tears up | 12:52 | |
| nmz787_i1 | paperbot: http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2014/LC/C4LC00833B#!divAbstract | 12:55 |
| nmz787_i1 | kanzure: this is a decent overview of the current state of the art, I guess... http://www.microtas2014.org/program/MicroTAS2014_TechnicalProgram.pdf | 12:57 |
| nmz787_i1 | it's a really long doc | 12:57 |
| nmz787_i1 | https://aiche.confex.com/data/abstract/aiche/2014/Paper_389068_abstract_56040_0.docx | 13:01 |
| nmz787_i1 | ' A Rapid Microfluidic Assay for Optimization of Bacterial Electroporation Conditions' | 13:01 |
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| kanzure | you know, i think paperbot might not be asynchronous | 13:10 |
| kanzure | did anyone ever check | 13:10 |
| kanzure | paperbot may be missing messages while it's busy downloading | 13:10 |
| nmz787_i1 | I didn't check, as I assumed the calling would be done in phenny or something | 13:14 |
| nmz787_i1 | the IRC code that isn't in paperbot | 13:14 |
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| kanzure | yeah paperbot never had a good separation of what was phenny-only versus paperbot-only | 13:55 |
| kanzure | for example, most of paperbot v1 was trapped in a phenny-specific function that called phenny-specific functions | 13:55 |
| kanzure | but if there's no irc component, is it really paperbot? i would have to call it something like paperguts. | 13:56 |
| kanzure | and then paperbot would just be the irc-framework-specific parts that call the guts. | 13:56 |
| nmz787_i1 | paperget | 14:00 |
| nmz787_i1 | 'like wget, but for papers' | 14:01 |
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| nmz787_i1 | it is perplexing that the guy who started writing Python (named Guido) does not look like someone from the 'jersey shore' scene... for some reason anyone named 'Guido' seems like they should have a tan, gelled hair, and a muscle shirt with short pants and boating shoes. | 14:06 |
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| ParahSailin_ | spain conquered the netherlands once, so people in the netherlands are sometimes named spanish things | 14:33 |
| nmz787_i1 | well supposedly it comes from italians immitating british people immitating older british royalty or something | 14:42 |
| nmz787_i1 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_College | 15:17 |
| nmz787_i1 | .wik invisible college | 15:17 |
| yoleaux | "The Invisible College has been described as a precursor group to the Royal Society of London, consisting of a number of natural philosophers around Robert Boyle. It has been suggested that other members included prominent figures later closely concerned with the Royal Society; but several groups preceded the formation of the Royal Society, …" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_college | 15:17 |
| nmz787_i1 | their logo looks like a pre-industrialized lab-bus | 15:17 |
| nmz787_i1 | 'chariot of laboratories' | 15:17 |
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| fenn | huh. "dev/random provides random numbers by directly hashing the internal entropy pool. Each use of /dev/random depletes the data available, and if the entropy sources cannot deliver sufficient data, your request to read /dev/random will block - it will wait until more entropy is available." | 15:35 |
| chris_99 | what's odd about that? | 15:36 |
| nmz787_i1 | hmm | 15:36 |
| nmz787_i1 | ddos waiting to happen somewhere? | 15:36 |
| fenn | "urandom does exactly the same as /dev/random, except that when the entropy pool is close to exhaustion it will instead start to deliver data from a software device, a PRNG that has been seeded from 'good' random data." | 15:36 |
| chris_99 | you can cat stuff to /dev/random iirc | 15:37 |
| chris_99 | to help it | 15:37 |
| fenn | as mentioned earlier up the page, most servers don't have keyboards or mice, so their entropy pool must be constantly starved for randomness | 15:38 |
| chris_99 | vm's especially i guess | 15:40 |
| nmz787_i1 | aren't connections from the real world random? | 15:40 |
| nmz787_i1 | er | 15:40 |
| nmz787_i1 | um | 15:40 |
| fenn | sometimes | 15:40 |
| nmz787_i1 | well i guess people have intent to connect to a server | 15:40 |
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| fenn | but if an attacker is purposefully draining entropy faster than /dev/random can generate it from his connections... | 15:41 |
| nmz787_i1 | but, the time or frequency of connection doesn't seem predicatble or immediately deterministic | 15:41 |
| fenn | say you connect to generate-ssh-key.com/badcode.php?num_keys=99999 there's only one connection but it has to serve up 99999 doses of randomness | 15:43 |
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| jackybgood | paperbot http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/pdf/10.2514/6.2014-4470 | 15:44 |
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| fenn | 3D printing in zero G, is that really a challenge | 15:47 |
| jackybgood | For my interests it is. | 15:48 |
| fenn | what about 3D printing upside down, or in stormy seas | 15:48 |
| jackybgood | They can print in gels to keep it steady | 15:49 |
| fenn | yeah i saw that | 15:49 |
| jackybgood | They need 3d printing in space. I'm just trying to do it differently | 15:50 |
| fenn | two photon laser cure gel would be a thing... | 15:50 |
| jackybgood | I'm looking into it now | 15:51 |
| fenn | it doesnt exist yet | 15:51 |
| fenn | i hereby bequeath this potentially infinitely valuable idea unto thee, jackybgood | 15:51 |
| jackybgood | But there has to have been something written about it, right? | 15:51 |
| jackybgood | How would you do it | 15:52 |
| fenn | well, two photon absorption boosts the apparent energy per photon, so you need to use a laser of about twice the wavelength you would normally use to cure your resin | 15:52 |
| jackybgood | Is resin in space a good idea? | 15:53 |
| fenn | it also requires a lot more power since only a fraction of incident photons are absorbed twice before being released | 15:53 |
| jackybgood | I see it as more of a safety hazard. So you would be using twice as much power to do 3d printing with 2 photon laser curing? | 15:54 |
| fenn | free liquids can be managed fairly effectively through surface tension and clever container design | 15:54 |
| fenn | more than twice as much power | 15:54 |
| jackybgood | Which would make it more expensive | 15:55 |
| fenn | yes, but, you could print free floating structures at extremely high resolution | 15:55 |
| jackybgood | I don't think NASA wants to spend that much more out of their budget, but I'll try and figure it out. | 15:56 |
| fenn | oh are you actually working on 3d printers for space? | 15:56 |
| jackybgood | Not yet. I'm about to go into college :P | 15:56 |
| jackybgood | But I want to | 15:57 |
| fenn | well a lot can change in 4 years | 15:57 |
| fenn | or however long you plan to spend in college :) | 15:57 |
| jackybgood | Which is why I'm trying to pick up the pieces as fast as I can | 15:57 |
| jackybgood | To get picked up by a startup I know | 15:58 |
| jackybgood | I want to print using synthetic biology/chemistry | 16:00 |
| fenn | uh oh | 16:00 |
| fenn | do you know jordan miller? | 16:00 |
| jackybgood | no | 16:00 |
| jackybgood | His work sounds cool though | 16:01 |
| fenn | here's some pretty pictures and some spam https://www.adafruit.com/blog/2014/06/19/jordan-miller-billion-cell-construct/ | 16:02 |
| fenn | paperbot: http://www.plosbiology.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.1001882&representation=PDF | 16:02 |
| fenn | paperbot is on vacation | 16:03 |
| jackybgood | Now, if I can do that in space, with filaments found on other planets... I'm golden | 16:04 |
| jrayhawk_ | .title http://y2u.be/jHMmMgdcOSU whoops | 16:05 |
| yoleaux | jrayhawk_: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed. | 16:05 |
| fenn | i saw somewhere they had grown a tooth from some sort of 3d printed biopolymer scaffolding that had been implanted into a mouse | 16:06 |
| jackybgood | They made a mouse grow teeth? | 16:08 |
| chris_99 | don't mice already have teeth? | 16:09 |
| fenn | no they implanted a tooth-shaped scaffold seeded with osteoblasts and something like stem cells(?) into a mouse's back, which hardened over the course of several months, then they took it out of the mouse's belly and implanted it into its jaw | 16:09 |
| fenn | looks like there is a lot of work in this area | 16:11 |
| jackybgood | That's messed up | 16:12 |
| fenn | .title http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24295512 | 16:12 |
| yoleaux | Three-dimensional printed multiphase scaffolds for regeneration of ... - PubMed - NCBI | 16:12 |
| fenn | so you were interested in making polymers with bacteria or what? | 16:15 |
| jackybgood | Specifically, I would be trying to use Martian or Moon soils to 3d print structures and objects | 16:16 |
| fenn | where does synthetic biology come into that | 16:16 |
| jackybgood | This is a fairly brand new, uneducated plan I've had for about a week | 16:17 |
| fenn | genehacker and i were just talking about the freitas lunar replicating factory, molten oxide electrolysis, toth-fejel mechanical replicator, dna origami computational tiling | 16:17 |
| jackybgood | Haven't heard of any of that before | 16:18 |
| jackybgood | I was thinking I could print using electrospinning in microgravity | 16:19 |
| fenn | electrospinning is pretty low resolution | 16:19 |
| fenn | also, the moon and mars aren't microgravity | 16:20 |
| jackybgood | I suppose I was assuming the astronauts would be printing in orbit, for repairing equipment with soils they pick up along the way. Doesn't make as much sense now. | 16:21 |
| jackybgood | They'd be printing on the ground, probably. They still need to print objects that don't always have the best balance, so printing while keeping the object extremely still is crucial | 16:22 |
| jackybgood | I thought electrospinning was very high res, at least for 3d printing? | 16:22 |
| fenn | jackybgood: at least skim over these http://www.rfreitas.com/Astro/GrowingLunarFactory1981.htm http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/ http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/final_report/883Toth-Fejel.pdf http://www.dna.caltech.edu/Papers/origami_nucleation2009.pdf | 16:26 |
| fenn | you can print support material to keep oddly shaped objects from falling over, though usually they stick to whatever you're printing them on | 16:28 |
| jackybgood | These are great! | 16:30 |
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| jackybgood | What field studies these applications? | 16:36 |
| jackybgood | mechanical/chemical/material engineering? | 16:36 |
| fenn | the space colonization stuff was funded by nasa institute for advanced concepts, and winfree is in the molecular biology department | 16:37 |
| fenn | half of freitas's stuff is operations research (that's a field of study) | 16:37 |
| fenn | "nanotechnology" became a buzzword that has been applied to a zillion things, but originally it was just chemistry, computer science, and physics | 16:38 |
| jackybgood | Now there's biochemistry, too | 16:39 |
| fenn | take it from me, it's extremely easy to get distracted in biochemistry | 16:39 |
| fenn | have you seen the full KEGG reaction map of the human metabolism? | 16:40 |
| jackybgood | I can see that. I haven't signed up for classes yet but I was thinking dual major biological and chemical engineering | 16:40 |
| jackybgood | Nope | 16:40 |
| fenn | well anyway it's a huge spaghetti mess of arrows and boxes that covers an entire wall | 16:42 |
| fenn | i think this is it http://www.genome.jp/kegg/atlas.html | 16:42 |
| fenn | they tend to shield students from the horrible reality | 16:43 |
| jackybgood | I've heard of kegg but have not yet used it. | 16:43 |
| fenn | "the krebs cycle" "the citric acid cycle" "the central dogma" oh it's so neat and tidy | 16:44 |
| jackybgood | :-O it's such a massive web | 16:44 |
| jackybgood | But I agree, it's very well organized. | 16:45 |
| catern | can I get this in single image form, I'd rather view it locally | 16:45 |
| jackybgood | It's interactive, so you have to choose which map to see. It's very complex | 16:46 |
| fenn | i dont know catern; if you find an image please let me know | 16:46 |
| catern | i've definitely seen it before, but neglected to save it | 16:46 |
| fenn | jackybgood: i'd like to make a similar map for mechanical engineering and inorganic chemistry | 16:48 |
| jackybgood | I'm trying to program one in Python, but first I have to learn the full picture | 16:48 |
| justanotheruser | jackybgood: you planning on making a synthesis graph? | 16:49 |
| jackybgood | Mapping out the receptors for drug delivery | 16:50 |
| justanotheruser | oh | 16:50 |
| jackybgood | That's just the first step, as there are so many combinations of receptors | 16:50 |
| jackybgood | I will have to break it down for each step in determining if a drug works or not | 16:51 |
| fenn | i'm 100% certain this already exists | 16:52 |
| fenn | how about this one for example https://pypi.python.org/pypi/OpenDiscovery/2.2.2 | 16:52 |
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| fenn | anyway drugs do more than just interact with receptors | 16:56 |
| jackybgood | Right there are many protocols that come into play, and I'm trying to map them out | 16:57 |
| fenn | i'm not really sure what counts as a drug either; apparently concentrated fish oil is a drug | 16:58 |
| fenn | now genetically engineered antibodies are drugs | 16:58 |
| fenn | "Biologics for Treating Rheumatoid Arthritis - Enbrel, Humira ..." | 16:59 |
| Lemminkainen | yet you're not allowed to make Remicade, Enbrel, etc at home | 16:59 |
| fenn | they're patented. is there some other reason you're "not allowed"? | 17:00 |
| fenn | what if you're naturally allergic to interleukin-a or whatever the target is | 17:00 |
| Lemminkainen | if you're naturally allergic to IL-A(?) then I'd say you probably got bigger problems to worry about | 17:00 |
| fenn | "FDA has stated that it has not determined how interchangeability can be established for complex proteins" so that could be a reason, since they can't verify that it's safe if they don't know what it is | 17:01 |
| Lemminkainen | ha | 17:01 |
| fenn | what really chaps my ass is that things like HGH are controlled substances | 17:02 |
| Lemminkainen | there's a cream for that | 17:03 |
| jackybgood | Is it agnostic? | 17:03 |
| fenn | "in Colorado, using human growth hormone illegally is a misdemeanor but possessing it is a felony." | 17:05 |
| fenn | so just be real quick about it, see | 17:06 |
| fenn | myeah see | 17:06 |
| * fenn does best al capone impression | 17:06 | |
| fenn | maybe we can convince the supreme court that since proteins are just sequences of letters, bioengineering is protected under the first amendment | 17:08 |
| jackybgood | They might buy it | 17:09 |
| fenn | my religious practice is to rub deer antler velvet all over my body | 17:12 |
| jackybgood | The purpose being...? | 17:12 |
| fenn | supposedly it's full of growth factors such as IGF-1 (nevermind that deer are a different species) | 17:13 |
| jackybgood | That's disturbing | 17:16 |
| fenn | IGF-1 has been studied for improving repair of connective tissue (cartilage, tendons, muscles) and since deer antler velvet contains this protein, hucksters have developed an industry around it. but IGF-1 is a protein and can't survive the digestion process, and won't get into your blood just by spraying it on | 17:17 |
| fenn | it probably does have testosterone and other deer hormones in it though | 17:17 |
| jackybgood | So my dad should stop spraying his face with deer urine every time he goes hunting? | 17:18 |
| fenn | whatever gets your rocks off | 17:19 |
| jackybgood | Gross. Knowing a bit of biology can really help | 17:20 |
| Lemminkainen | fenn you should try taking your velvet rectally for maximal absorption | 17:23 |
| fenn | i'll keep that in mind. also i'll try to get it as fresh as possible, assuming the deer cooperates | 17:30 |
| fenn | knowing a bit of biology can really help! | 17:30 |
| Lemminkainen | might help to administer it in an Everclear extraction | 17:32 |
| fenn | do i administer the everclear to the deer or to myself? | 17:33 |
| fenn | or both? | 17:33 |
| jrayhawk_ | I don't think IGF-1 digestion has been studied with an awareness of intestinal permeability or gut floral metabolism, so we may have some surprises. | 17:33 |
| fenn | jrayhawk_: since deer are a different species it seems unlikely that their IGF-1 would have any effect on humans | 17:34 |
| jrayhawk_ | beats me | 17:34 |
| Lemminkainen | both | 17:34 |
| Lemminkainen | if you want more IGF-1, though, exercise strenuously and then eat a few croissants | 17:35 |
| Lemminkainen | probably more effective than deer antlers | 17:35 |
| jrayhawk_ | croissants would just do insulin, not IGF-1. Large protein boluses are the way to go for IGF-1. | 17:36 |
| fenn | does going to the grocery store count as "strenuous" | 17:36 |
| jrayhawk_ | crabwalking | 17:36 |
| jrayhawk_ | specifically BCAAs | 17:36 |
| fenn | who names these things https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maple_syrup_urine_disease | 17:39 |
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| fenn | "in vitro data suggest that whey protein exerts its insulinogenic effect by preferential elevation of the plasma concentrations of certain amino acids, GIP and GLP-1." i thought all this was discovered ages ago | 17:44 |
| fenn | what are the magic keywords for insulinogenic amino acids vs ... ? | 17:45 |
| fenn | i wish there were websites that just had lists of scientifically known facts | 17:54 |
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| justanotheruser | http://www.space.com/17933-nasa-television-webcasts-live-space-tv.html | 18:46 |
| justanotheruser | rocket blew up | 18:46 |
| justanotheruser | $1.9 billion lost, no lives lost | 18:46 |
| justanotheruser | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypXOIr5x3Q | 18:47 |
| justanotheruser | but the FDA says a human life is around $10m | 18:48 |
| justanotheruser | so like 200 lives were lost | 18:48 |
| fenn | it was one of eight launches in a $1.9b contract, so more like $250 million | 18:49 |
| justanotheruser | my mistake | 18:49 |
| justanotheruser | 25 likes were lost then | 18:49 |
| justanotheruser | *lives | 18:50 |
| fenn | also lost was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_Resources#Arkyd_3_Flight_test_system private space telescope testbed | 18:50 |
| fenn | they were planning on using laser communications; not sure if this testbed had that or not | 18:51 |
| justanotheruser | RIP millions of human-hours | 18:51 |
| fenn | don't worry too much about it | 18:52 |
| fenn | most of the costs are engineering costs that get amortized over multiple builds | 18:52 |
| fenn | like, guys clicking on a cad program | 18:52 |
| nmz787 | fenn: I've thought maple syrup urine disease sounded interested, at least it would smell nice.... but I wonder if you would lose taste for real maple | 18:53 |
| fenn | why does lucas own the trademark on "arakyd" when it's clearly stolen from frank herbert's "arrakis" | 18:55 |
| fenn | is this the same satellite project that was on kickstarter? | 18:57 |
| fenn | com/projects/arkydforeveryone/arkyd-a-space-telescope-for-everyone-0 | 18:57 |
| fenn | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/arkydforeveryone/arkyd-a-space-telescope-for-everyone-0 | 18:58 |
| nmz787 | also "photoresist gel" is a thing on google scholar | 19:00 |
| nmz787 | I imagine that your lower limit of resolution would increase though if you added gelling polymers | 19:00 |
| fenn | why | 19:00 |
| nmz787 | there's photo-active PDMS, which has polymers | 19:01 |
| nmz787 | well because the polymers to gellify will be much longer than the photoresist -mers | 19:01 |
| nmz787 | so for a given volume that was activated, there will be lots of looping out of the activated area of the long polymers | 19:01 |
| fenn | do you mean there will be better or worse resolution? | 19:02 |
| nmz787 | the effect may be negligible at macro scale | 19:02 |
| nmz787 | worse | 19:02 |
| nmz787 | minimum pixel size will increase | 19:02 |
| nmz787 | seems like you'd also have a lot more surface area | 19:02 |
| nmz787 | so you could get some metamaterial effects | 19:02 |
| nmz787 | like shit always wanting to stick to it or it always being moist or something | 19:03 |
| fenn | how long are individual polymers | 19:03 |
| nmz787 | (that's off the top of my head so totally not researched well) | 19:03 |
| nmz787 | PEG for example comes in prob a few orders of magnitude length variants | 19:03 |
| fenn | not longer than a micron though? | 19:03 |
| fenn | i could see phonon conduction being a problem i guess, but an individual polymer chain won't normally be bonded to the resin around it | 19:05 |
| fenn | it would just be floating around, and when you rinse the resin off there's nothing keeping it bound to your structure | 19:05 |
| nmz787 | idk the exact length | 19:06 |
| nmz787 | but you also have a spaghetti/ball-of-string effect | 19:06 |
| fenn | a good gelling agent would disperse itself | 19:06 |
| fenn | like starch is less viscous than methylcellulose because it's in a ball | 19:07 |
| nmz787 | but again, the effect may not be noticeable until you start looking at the nanoeffects | 19:07 |
| nmz787 | I think starch is miniscule compared to like PEG-8000 | 19:08 |
| fenn | what's the texture of that like? | 19:08 |
| fenn | "carbowax" | 19:08 |
| nmz787 | umm, powder some/most times | 19:10 |
| fenn | so is sodium chloride | 19:10 |
| nmz787 | they sell it at the drug store as laxative powder for example | 19:10 |
| nmz787 | powdery is a texture, no? | 19:10 |
| fenn | yeah but it's not in solution | 19:11 |
| nmz787 | oh, umm, i don't generally think liquid has a texture, viscosity though | 19:13 |
| fenn | liquid always has a viscosity | 19:13 |
| fenn | unless you're talking about the luminiferous aether | 19:14 |
| fenn | "Bath time recreational gel. (such as Gellibaff or Squishybaff)" | 19:15 |
| fenn | you get more thickening power per unit mass from branched structures | 19:16 |
| fenn | i'm not coming across a lot of quantitative data though; maybe they don't actually know the branch lengths | 19:16 |
| fenn | "On average, the molecular weight of commercially produced chitosan is between 3800 and 20,000 Daltons." | 19:18 |
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| fenn | .wik shrilk | 19:32 |
| yoleaux | "Shrilk is a compostable material inspired by the insect cuticle and made from discarded shrimp shells and proteins derived from silk. Shrilk is thin, clear, flexible, and strong as aluminum at half the weight." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrilk | 19:32 |
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| fenn | "PEG has been used as the gate insulator in an electric double-layer transistor to induce superconductivity in an insulator." http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008NatMa...7..855U | 19:48 |
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| fenn | nothing to do with PEG of course | 19:51 |
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| fenn | so many pixels you won't know what to do with them all http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/22/imac-with-retina-display-review/ | 20:46 |
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| kanzure | hello genehacker | 20:58 |
| genehacker | hello | 20:58 |
| kanzure | genehacker: tallakahath is a geometrically-confined non-thermal plasma metal-deposition person that you might want to meet sometime | 20:59 |
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| genehacker | hmmm... | 21:03 |
| nmz787 | isn't most plasma non-thermal? | 21:10 |
| nmz787 | in that it's produced with electrics | 21:10 |
| nmz787 | or do some of the plasmas need to be kept hot/cold too? | 21:10 |
| fenn | fractal nanotruss http://jrgreer.caltech.edu/home.php | 21:16 |
| fenn | oh i have seen this page before | 21:16 |
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| fenn | "Using a technique known as Two Photon Lithography (TPL) Direct Laser Writing (DLW), we create arbitrarily complex 3D structures with features on nanometer length scales in a process analogous to rapid prototyping... We use these structures as a scaffold to deposit materials onto using techniques like ALD, CVD, and sputtering deposition. The polymer can then be etched out, leaving behind a hollow | 21:17 |
| fenn | nanoscale truss structure. | 21:17 |
| fenn | the trusses are made of stuff like alumina, nickel, cubic zirconium | 21:20 |
| fenn | or is that copper-zirconium | 21:21 |
| fenn | now i understand what she meant by using "nanotubes" as crumple zones | 21:25 |
| genehacker | it's basically 3d printing | 21:39 |
| tallakahath | No, its that the electron temperature >> neutrals/ion temperature | 22:06 |
| tallakahath | So you could run your finger through the stream and not get burnt | 22:07 |
| tallakahath | Comprae and contrast with, say, the sun. | 22:07 |
| tallakahath | Its been a few years since I've actively worked on that, tho. | 22:07 |
| nmz787 | you mean heat from joule heating? | 22:31 |
| tallakahath | Oh, there's still joule heating in all of the solid bits. The capillary will get red hot. | 22:36 |
| tallakahath | But the beam itself doesn't have time to thermally equilibrate | 22:36 |
| justanotheruser | http://i.imgur.com/qHN5z5n.gif | 22:44 |
| fenn | set your monitor's gamma to -1 for negative inverse kinematics | 22:45 |
| nmz787 | tallakahath: it can't equilibrate because it's in a vacuum chamber? | 22:52 |
| nmz787 | oh, i guess wiki says it is near 1 atm | 22:52 |
| nmz787 | so whatever gas is flooding in is a thermal insulator? | 22:53 |
| tallakahath | The fraction of excited species is relatively small because the pressure is so much higher | 23:08 |
| tallakahath | Compared to a parallel-plate plasma in a proper hard vacuum | 23:08 |
| justanotheruser | Is there some chinese website that will mill stuff for me? | 23:10 |
| fenn | emachineshop.com if new jersey is close enough to china | 23:11 |
| fenn | you have to use their cad software tho | 23:11 |
| justanotheruser | I'd rather upload something standard between software | 23:13 |
| fenn | the great thing about standards is there are so many of them | 23:13 |
| fenn | what are you making? | 23:14 |
| justanotheruser | fenn: watch hopefully | 23:14 |
| justanotheruser | using blender hopefully | 23:14 |
| fenn | uh no | 23:14 |
| justanotheruser | don't use blender+ | 23:14 |
| justanotheruser | ? | 23:14 |
| fenn | if it has to have precise dimensions i don't recommend blender | 23:14 |
| justanotheruser | is there some free software you do reccomend? | 23:15 |
| fenn | if it's an art object go ahead | 23:15 |
| nmz787 | well wouldn't the blender model just have to be humongous? | 23:15 |
| * nmz787 is compiling freecad now | 23:15 | |
| justanotheruser | fenn: small gears aren't art | 23:16 |
| fenn | hmm i should fill this out some time http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cadfaq/ | 23:16 |
| justanotheruser | nmz787: you like freecad? | 23:16 |
| nmz787 | i bet there's a clockmaker that you just made cry | 23:16 |
| nmz787 | justanotheruser: idk yet, kanzure said it's the best of the free, basically. | 23:17 |
| nmz787 | he actually said to use cadquery, which is based on freecad | 23:17 |
| fenn | archivist is a clockmaker who hangs out on freenode, you might want to talk to him | 23:17 |
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| fenn | watch gears are usually make with photochemical milling, not a milling machine | 23:18 |
| fenn | this is more like chemical circuit board etching | 23:18 |
| nmz787 | the alternative in open-source/free seems to be based on CGAL rather than freecad's opencascade... which from what I can tell the main difference is that CGAL can use arbitrary precision but it's really slow... and that maybe opencascade has improved on their precision (but I didn't make sure of that) | 23:18 |
| nmz787 | fenn: you still need CAD for that | 23:19 |
| fenn | sure but 2d cad | 23:19 |
| nmz787 | unless you wanted to do slicing | 23:19 |
| justanotheruser | hmm | 23:19 |
| nmz787 | or modelling the gears mesh | 23:19 |
| justanotheruser | yeah, it would be 2d | 23:19 |
| nmz787 | though that seems like a strech for freewate | 23:19 |
| nmz787 | freeware | 23:19 |
| justanotheruser | I would design it 3d first though | 23:19 |
| nmz787 | i mean like that inventor program is supposed to do | 23:20 |
| nmz787 | with rendering moving parts and such | 23:20 |
| fenn | gear math isnt that hard to get right | 23:20 |
| fenn | its the tooth forms that's the problem | 23:20 |
| justanotheruser | fenn: also, this guy used a milling machine it seems | 23:20 |
| justanotheruser | http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/dcorson/WN1/image014.jpg | 23:20 |
| nmz787 | in fact, there's an app for that | 23:20 |
| justanotheruser | http://web.ticino.com/dcorson/watch/WatchNet-1_files/WN1.htm | 23:20 |
| nmz787 | justanotheruser: well that says he used existing gears, doesn't it? | 23:23 |
| fenn | i wonder if those holes are supposed to be collinear | 23:23 |
| nmz787 | "This first project is to take the wheels from a standard calibre, an ETA2824-2, and make the rest of the watch myself" | 23:23 |
| justanotheruser | nmz787: yeah, the modeling is based on the gears. | 23:24 |
| justanotheruser | I guess I wasn't cclear | 23:24 |
| justanotheruser | Also, I will probably have to design it independent of that design with my own gears I buy | 23:25 |
| genehacker | freecad still uses opencascade and opencascade sucks | 23:27 |
| genehacker | wait what | 23:28 |
| genehacker | you want to model gears meshing? | 23:28 |
| genehacker | why would you want to do that? | 23:28 |
| nmz787 | genehacker: tell that to kanzure | 23:28 |
| nmz787 | genehacker: but also, i did read something that was somewhat convincing... but I can't find the reference | 23:29 |
| nmz787 | it was some image showing lines that were supposed to meet, i think... and it was occ vs cgal | 23:29 |
| nmz787 | and the cgal version, to me, looked crappier | 23:29 |
| genehacker | if it's a low power application the deformation of your gears will be practically nothing | 23:29 |
| nmz787 | but the caption seemed to say the opposite | 23:29 |
| genehacker | some of my colleagues did the same comparison with occ and industrially available cad kernals | 23:30 |
| genehacker | *kernel | 23:31 |
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| nmz787 | what sucked about it comparatively? | 23:31 |
| genehacker | some of the more advanced operations | 23:31 |
| fenn | it crashes constantly | 23:32 |
| genehacker | like blending | 23:32 |
| fenn | boolean intersections and sweeps often result in non manifold geometry | 23:32 |
| nmz787 | fenn: that's why I compiled, so maybe I can catch things and report them more easily (debugging symbols) | 23:32 |
| nmz787 | fenn: and does that not happen with openscad? | 23:33 |
| fenn | no | 23:33 |
| genehacker | openscad is only doing csg | 23:33 |
| fenn | openscad doesn't seem to generate non-manifold, and i've never had it crash | 23:33 |
| genehacker | csg is old school cad | 23:33 |
| nmz787 | (i mean non-manifold as a result) | 23:33 |
| fenn | they're really completely different beasts | 23:34 |
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| genehacker | but if someone would just put a bunch of money into improving opencascade or buying out a major cad kernel to make it opensource the world would be a much better place | 23:35 |
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| fenn | the problem with OCC is it's layers and layers and layers of multiple generations of development teams adding onto stuff they didn't understand | 23:35 |
| fenn | something like 30,000 classes | 23:35 |
| genehacker | though if you want to play around with some of the big fun industrial cad kernels, often times all you need is a dll file | 23:36 |
| genehacker | and some documentation which is online for free | 23:36 |
| genehacker | DLL file can be downloaded as part of demo for some cad softwares | 23:36 |
| fenn | that doesn't make it open source | 23:36 |
| fenn | it does provide a starting point for developing an API though | 23:37 |
| nmz787 | heh, I have a file that was in freecad src with 419613 lines in it | 23:37 |
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| genehacker | it's free as in beer and if you're clever you could write something as good as solidworks | 23:37 |
| fenn | i'm pretty sure that would be against any EULA | 23:39 |
| fenn | and it's easier to just download solidworks from a pirate | 23:39 |
| fenn | not that solidworks is the end-all be-all of cad software... | 23:40 |
| nmz787 | is that your al capone impression of saying euler? | 23:40 |
| nmz787 | 'oila, see' | 23:40 |
| genehacker | *this software requires a legally licensed copy of the parasolid cad kernl in order to work | 23:40 |
| genehacker | *please download cadconverter4050 2.0 which comes with a legal copy of the parasolid cad kernel in order to use this software | 23:41 |
| fenn | genehacker i'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this scheme | 23:42 |
| fenn | you end up with something vaguely legal that nobody can improve upon | 23:42 |
| genehacker | guess so, but it will work better than opencascade | 23:42 |
| nmz787 | "Most Parasolid files can communicate and migrate only 3D solids and/or surface data - Parasolid files currently cannot communicate and migrate 2D data such as lines and arcs." | 23:43 |
| nmz787 | "To use Parasolid effectively, users need to have fundamental knowledge of CAGD, computational geometry and topology." | 23:43 |
| nmz787 | 'ain\'t nobody got time for that' | 23:43 |
| fenn | what's CAGD | 23:43 |
| nmz787 | it redirects to CAD on wiki | 23:44 |
| genehacker | oh come on if you're familiar with opencascade it's not that hard | 23:44 |
| nmz787 | http://www.acronymfinder.com/CADG.html has nothing | 23:44 |
| * nmz787 is doing CAD at work now | 23:44 | |
| * nmz787 'lectrical though | 23:44 | |
| genehacker | computer aided geometric design | 23:45 |
| nmz787 | 'Chat About Depression Glass (web forum)' | 23:45 |
| genehacker | and I do MAD at work now | 23:45 |
| nmz787 | that must be CADG | 23:45 |
| nmz787 | Molecular Aided Drafting? | 23:45 |
| genehacker | oops that doesn't really work out | 23:45 |
| fenn | i guess this is talking about implicit geometry vs explicit nurbsy things | 23:45 |
| genehacker | unless you consider caffeine a molecule | 23:46 |
| nmz787 | we should just keep layering sine waves to make these shapes | 23:46 |
| nmz787 | that would make things simple :P | 23:46 |
| genehacker | why not voxels | 23:46 |
| genehacker | everyone loves minecraft | 23:47 |
| nmz787 | yo dawg, I heard you like complex shit, so I put a sine wave on your sine wave so it can interfere while it constructifies | 23:47 |
| nmz787 | isn't blender essentially just that? | 23:47 |
| genehacker | can you put in blocks like minecraft? | 23:48 |
| nmz787 | I might end up just setting a voxel to be half-an-angstrom and get a new USB3 HDD | 23:48 |
| fenn | are you talking about catmull-rom surface refinement? | 23:48 |
| nmz787 | my cat sleeps outside | 23:48 |
| fenn | derp, nevermind | 23:48 |
| fenn | blender does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subdivision_surface | 23:49 |
| genehacker | you can also do this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Additive_Manufacturing_File_Format#Optional_curved_triangles | 23:50 |
| * nmz787 is building a serial mouse | 23:50 | |
| fenn | curved triangles, that's new | 23:50 |
| genehacker | not a space mouse? | 23:52 |
| genehacker | unfortunately it's a couple years old | 23:52 |
| genehacker | and no one seems to be using it | 23:52 |
| nmz787 | hmm, the huge mesh seems less prone to crashing or something | 23:53 |
| nmz787 | are they sparse at least? | 23:53 |
| fenn | is what sparse? | 23:54 |
| nmz787 | 'my CAD model is for an object I'm fabricating in a vacuum chamber... no, really... there aren't actually atoms there, so I don't want to store the data' | 23:54 |
| fenn | 'the original curved triangle is ultimately replaced by 1024 flat triangles. These 1024 triangles are generated "on the fly"' | 23:55 |
| Lemminkainen | fenn are you a nurb? | 23:56 |
| fenn | has everyone gone mad | 23:56 |
| nmz787 | wouldn't we be lots of NURBS | 23:57 |
| nmz787 | .ud nurb | 23:57 |
| nmz787 | 'Ganxsta: a person who talks shit about someone behind their back and sucks up to them to their face. Also spends all day inside on the computer or playing video games.' | 23:58 |
| nmz787 | I don't think that applies | 23:58 |
| Lemminkainen | not quite, do you live in a jellyfish house? | 23:58 |
| fenn | jellyfish have houses? | 23:58 |
| nmz787 | heh, 'NURBS. Non Useful Ridiculous Bull Shit' | 23:58 |
| nmz787 | I wonder if those pet jellyfish are for sale | 23:59 |
| Lemminkainen | ah, nevermind fenn you haven't had the Big Aha yet | 23:59 |
| fenn | i do admire hyperia galba | 23:59 |
| nmz787 | they are... | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Wed Oct 29 00:00:03 2014 | ||
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