| --- Log opened Sat Nov 08 00:00:44 2014 | ||
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 00:19 | |
| nmz787_i | good night everyone | 00:21 |
|---|---|---|
| nmz787_i | this was a lonnng week | 00:21 |
| nmz787_i | 6 hours or so of sleep prob on avg | 00:21 |
| nmz787_i | per night | 00:21 |
| -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-meuiqlhjnrzwumfz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 00:28 | |
| nmz787 | fenn: read section D. Scanner where it talks about using the voice coil from a CDROM and section E. Detector where the talk about using the mass-specter while they raster with the voice coil | 00:38 |
| nmz787 | 'The mass-spectrometer (RGA) samples gas through a nozzle located to one side of the sample area produces a helium partial pressure which is collected in an array. When the full frame has been collected, the software scales the minimum to maximum range of reading to black and white image limits. The range (contrast) from black to white was originally about 6% of the averate pressure after removing noise. In recent scans this has been improved ... | 00:39 |
| nmz787 | ... to 25%-45%, depending on the sample topography.' | 00:39 |
| nmz787 | .wik Residual gas analyzer | 00:39 |
| yoleaux | "A residual gas analyzer (RGA) is a small and usually rugged mass spectrometer, typically designed for process control and contamination monitoring in vacuum systems. Utilizing quadrupole technology, there exists two implementations, utilizing either an open ion source (OIS) or a closed ion source (CIS)." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual_gas_analyzer | 00:39 |
| nmz787 | this seems like a good price considering the market for them http://www.ebay.com/itm/Anest-Iwata-Scroll-Meister-Oil-Free-Scroll-Vacuum-Pump-Head-ISP-250C-/111486259599?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item19f519518f | 00:41 |
| nmz787 | ~$1k | 00:41 |
| nmz787 | but then you need a turbo pump... I wonder if a car turbo would work :D | 00:42 |
| nmz787 | someone posted a MEMS-based pump somewhere recently | 00:42 |
| nmz787 | this is some kind of local re-supply shop, lots of goodies but no prices http://www.horustech.com/index.php | 00:43 |
| nmz787 | err, no, this https://www.appliedbeams.com/products/ | 00:43 |
| nmz787 | the gallium source just looks like a small coil/spring that has been wetted with a low melting point metal solder-type stuff (gallium) | 00:44 |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 00:44 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:46 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:47 | |
| nmz787 | MEMS vacuum pump article http://www.micromanufacturing.com/content/tiny-vacuum-pumps-set-soar | 00:59 |
| nmz787 | something like that would, I believe, still require a 'roughing pump'... i.e. that scroll pump | 01:00 |
| nmz787 | scroll pump vs other rough/low vacuum pumps is scroll has no oil, which other pumps that do will create a 'virtual leak' of gaseous oil that is vapourizing into the vacuum space | 01:02 |
| nmz787 | and the oil can then go on to carbonize on the high voltage electronics | 01:02 |
| nmz787 | or detectors | 01:02 |
| nmz787 | etc | 01:02 |
| nmz787 | you might be able to have some kind of an ionizer/ion-getter between the specimen chamber and the pumps | 01:03 |
| nmz787 | is there no solid-state vacuum stuff? | 01:03 |
| nmz787 | like, bio-inspired or something | 01:04 |
| nmz787 | arbitrary gas-molecule transmembrane protein or something | 01:05 |
| nmz787 | a uniporter | 01:06 |
| nmz787 | .tell gene_hacker solid-state electrically-actuated membrane coatings? something you could apply to a porous ceramic plate, polarise with an electric field, then gently dry or fuse in a kiln maybe (?), finally install as the last side of your vacuum chamber. When you apply power, pumping of nitrogen/gas would occur. Design goals I guess: pumping action; no/low gas permeability, tight crystal structure around the pump mechanism; electrically ... | 01:16 |
| yoleaux | nmz787: I'll pass your message to gene_hacker. | 01:16 |
| nmz787 | ... actuated; works in dry conditions; can be fused with porous substrate forming overall no/low gas permeability | 01:16 |
| nmz787 | .tell gene_hacker ... actuated; works in dry conditions; can be fused with porous substrate forming overall no/low gas permeability | 01:17 |
| yoleaux | nmz787: I'll pass your message to gene_hacker. | 01:17 |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:02 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 03:55 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:55 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-50-19-165-26.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:34 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-205-181-204.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:34 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 04:37 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:37 | |
| fenn | today is http://www.aaronswartzday.org/ hackathons in austin, berlin, boston, buenos aires, houston, kathmandu, los angeles, magdeburg, new york city, oakland, oxford, san francisco | 04:42 |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@77.88.71.253] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:43 | |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sitfomjbyprzhqms] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:59 | |
| -!- gnusha [~gnusha@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:29 | |
| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by george church and the NRA, banned by the Federal Death Administration (4 times) | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | http://diyhpl.us/wiki | not intentionally unrepeatable | 05:29 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Fri Jun 6 17:48:33 2014] | 05:29 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 05:29 | |
| [ abetusk ] [ Daeken ] [ jrayhawk ] [ saurik ] | 05:29 | |
| [ ademoglu ] [ delinquentme] [ juri_ ] [ sheena ] | 05:29 | |
| [ altersid ] [ dingo ] [ justanotheruser] [ Shehrazad ] | 05:29 | |
| [ andytoshi ] [ docl ] [ juul ] [ sivoais ] | 05:29 | |
| [ archels ] [ DonnchaC_ ] [ kanzure ] [ smeaaagle ] | 05:29 | |
| [ audy ] [ dpk ] [ kenju254 ] [ strages_ ] | 05:29 | |
| [ augur ] [ drazak ] [ kjskjskjs ] [ strangewarp ] | 05:29 | |
| [ balrog ] [ drewbot ] [ lichen ] [ streety ] | 05:29 | |
| [ bbrittain ] [ dvorkbjel ] [ maaku ] [ superkuh ] | 05:29 | |
| [ bkero ] [ ebowden ] [ Merovoth ] [ superobserver] | 05:29 | |
| [ blueskin ] [ faceface ] [ napedia ] [ tallakahath ] | 05:29 | |
| [ Burnin8 ] [ fenn ] [ night ] [ thundara ] | 05:29 | |
| [ catern ] [ gnusha ] [ nmz787 ] [ Twey ] | 05:29 | |
| [ CheckDavid] [ HashNuke ] [ nsh ] [ Urchin ] | 05:29 | |
| [ Coffeenut ] [ heath ] [ ParahSailin_ ] [ Viper168 ] | 05:29 | |
| [ comma8 ] [ helleshin ] [ pasky ] [ Vutral ] | 05:29 | |
| [ cpopell ] [ HEx1 ] [ poohbear ] [ yoleaux ] | 05:29 | |
| [ crescendo ] [ ivan` ] [ rak[1] ] [ yorick ] | 05:29 | |
| [ cuba ] [ Jaakko9110 ] [ rigel ] | 05:29 | |
| [ d3vz3r0 ] [ JayDugger ] [ rkos ] | 05:29 | |
| -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 78 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 78 normal] | 05:29 | |
| -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 | 05:29 | |
| -!- Irssi: Join to ##hplusroadmap was synced in 8 secs | 05:29 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@2a02:810b:33f:dc18:5c37:890:6547:90b9] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:33 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@2a02:810b:33f:dc18:5c37:890:6547:90b9] has quit [Changing host] | 05:33 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:33 | |
| kanzure | what is wrong with the internet | 05:50 |
| fenn | something is WRONG on the INTERNET!!! | 05:52 |
| kanzure | compiler bootstrapping http://rano.org/bcompiler.html | 05:53 |
| kanzure | "kernel driver to practice writing exploits against" https://github.com/clymb3r/KdExploitMe | 05:53 |
| rkos | hey fenn im sorry but my dl of that pdf you uploaded for me corrupted itself somehow, can you reupload it? | 05:54 |
| kanzure | .title http://blog.ioactive.com/2014/11/elf-parsing-bugs-by-example-with-melkor.html | 05:54 |
| yoleaux | IOActive Labs Research: ELF Parsing Bugs by Example with Melkor Fuzzer | 05:54 |
| rkos | and kanzure whathappened to paperbot | 05:54 |
| kanzure | http://www.devttys0.com/2014/10/reversing-d-links-wps-pin-algorithm/ | 05:54 |
| fenn | rkos http://fennetic.net/irc/327.full.pdf does it work now? | 05:54 |
| kanzure | "While perusing the latest firmware for D-Link’s DIR-810L 80211ac router, I found an interesting bit of code in sbin/ncc, a binary which provides back-end services used by many other processes on the device, including the HTTP and UPnP servers.." | 05:54 |
| rkos | yeah thanks very much fenn ! | 05:55 |
| kanzure | paperbot is dead until someone fixes bugs | 05:55 |
| fenn | so people have been calling for a graphical way to view code structures for at least all eternity, and it seems like the benefits of throwing away the text bits actually outweigh the disadvantages in the case of reverse engineering | 05:57 |
| kanzure | "exploiting a webkit bug on a playstation vita" http://acez.re/ps-vita-level-1-webkitties-3/ | 05:57 |
| fenn | since you don't really have function or variable names, a network graph view is more accurate way of representing the data/code structure | 05:58 |
| fenn | but it would need to have a lot of introspection tools built in, or it would just be a useless toy | 05:58 |
| kanzure | i have not seen a good graph diagram of code, ever | 05:58 |
| fenn | me either | 05:58 |
| kanzure | i did lots of graphviz dumps of pokemon red and pokemon crystal and it was just fucking awful | 05:58 |
| fenn | i'm sure if you did a graphviz dump of an electronic circuit schematic it would be just as awful | 06:00 |
| fenn | but this doesn't mean that good schematics don't exist | 06:00 |
| kanzure | this may crash your browser http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/pokecrystal/graphs/crystal.html | 06:00 |
| fenn | thanks for the warning; i'm already out of ram... | 06:00 |
| kanzure | (middle scroll to zoom) | 06:01 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/pokecrystal/graphs/2014-11-08-080235-pokecrystal-call-graph-diagram.png | 06:03 |
| fenn | i don't think force-directed layouts are the right way to go because they're not deterministic; people learn new languages by seeing it presented the same way every time, and the same graph could look many different ways, even in identical contexts | 06:03 |
| kanzure | i like how it has to use horizontal lines everywhere | 06:04 |
| fenn | i dont see any horizontal lines | 06:04 |
| kanzure | near the top | 06:04 |
| kanzure | "oh and this function has to cut across the entire chart.." | 06:05 |
| fenn | what's wrong with that? | 06:05 |
| kanzure | for one, cutting across lots of area/space is meaningless | 06:05 |
| fenn | if you have extremely modularized code you'd hope that the graph layout algorithm didnt have lots of long lines | 06:06 |
| fenn | but if the code itself is spaghetti code, there's no way around it (in 2 dimensions at least) | 06:06 |
| fenn | something something rank order network topology | 06:06 |
| kanzure | there is some maximum spaghetti factor beyond which it should be impossible to make a useful diagram | 06:07 |
| kanzure | however, that spaghetti factor should probably be well beyond what it is possible for a human to write | 06:07 |
| fenn | even a hopfield network can have a comprehensible diagram | 06:07 |
| fenn | maybe i dont really understand what it is that makes spaghetti code | 06:08 |
| kanzure | a lot of reverse engineering is just staring at bytes until a pattern pops out at you | 06:08 |
| fenn | that's all anything is | 06:08 |
| kanzure | and things like "i bet these bitches didn't know about that extra parameter on that function call" | 06:08 |
| kanzure | (it's the "betting" part that matters there, not the specific example) | 06:09 |
| fenn | it just seems to me that brute force ascii to cortical pattern recognition may not be the most optimal way to grok a code structure | 06:09 |
| fenn | s/may not/probably not/ | 06:10 |
| fenn | even that graphviz blob tells you some things, like "this has a bunch of data attached to it" | 06:11 |
| kanzure | http://binwalk.org/3d-data-visualizations/ | 06:11 |
| kanzure | "unknown executable data" http://binwalk.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/unknown_executable_data.gif | 06:11 |
| fenn | what are the geostationary bits that only connect to one or two other functions? | 06:11 |
| kanzure | helper functions? | 06:12 |
| kanzure | most of these addresses have been figured out in pokecrystal.git and commented/named/etc | 06:12 |
| fenn | helper functions would be connected somewhere if they are actually used in the code, no? | 06:13 |
| kanzure | oh, er, there are some functions that are not directly called by jumps etc but instead by variable manipulation | 06:14 |
| kanzure | but the source code still knew about those functions | 06:14 |
| fenn | is that like self modifying code? | 06:14 |
| kanzure | original dataset was based on parsing the manually-crafted pile of source code | 06:14 |
| kanzure | it's like self-calling source code | 06:14 |
| kanzure | "do some addition to make the right pointer" | 06:14 |
| fenn | it's a low priority but i want to reverse engineer "bushido blade" for playstation some day | 06:15 |
| kanzure | as they say in the temporal mechanics department, ... | 06:16 |
| fenn | the game mechanics are not spectacular but the environments are top notch | 06:16 |
| fenn | i do like the realism of "if you get hit in the head with a giant hammer you are dead, the end" | 06:17 |
| fenn | have you ever seen the movie "primer"? | 06:19 |
| fenn | .title https://xkcd.com/657/ | 06:19 |
| yoleaux | xkcd: Movie Narrative Charts | 06:19 |
| kanzure | no | 06:19 |
| fenn | well you'll either become obsessed and watch it 20 times, or not | 06:20 |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 06:36 | |
| dingo | bushido blade is a great game | 06:42 |
| dingo | i remember playing that new years eve y2k | 06:42 |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@77.88.71.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:43 | |
| dingo | ruthless | 06:43 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 06:46 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:53 | |
| -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:05 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:07 | |
| -!- helleshin [~talinck@66-161-138-110.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 07:07 | |
| -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [] | 07:14 | |
| kanzure | network disruption was nsa installing stuff | 07:21 |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 07:38 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:44 | |
| kanzure | hmm | 07:58 |
| kanzure | fenn: thorium stuff https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ecc0fa4d0bcf37ea04e9 | 08:31 |
| fenn | i have thought about this more than is healthy | 08:44 |
| kanzure | kjskjskjs: you have a victim | 08:45 |
| fenn | somehow this thought got stuck in me after reading about the underground planetary transport network in "ventus" | 08:47 |
| fenn | i don't get why the author thinks cooling is such a big deal; volcanoes outgas steam all the time | 08:48 |
| kanzure | 08:31 <+sbp> ah, kjskjskjs eventually got around to writing his thorium piece! | 08:50 |
| kanzure | pretty sure it's kjskjskjs | 08:50 |
| fenn | how did you find that? | 08:58 |
| kanzure | swhack | 09:01 |
| dingo | hey i just found teamcity gives unlimited licenses to OSS projects | 09:04 |
| dingo | i applied for one for pexpect | 09:04 |
| dingo | poifect | 09:04 |
| fenn | the first hit is free | 09:05 |
| fenn | jetbrains sounds like a travel agency | 09:05 |
| dingo | they're probably most amously known for intellij | 09:06 |
| dingo | (and the derivied ide's, like pycharm) | 09:06 |
| fenn | do non-java non-c++ people actually use IDE's | 09:08 |
| dingo | i've only seen former java programmers use pycharm haehe | 09:10 |
| dingo | so many java programmers are so fucking inept without their auto-completion and navigation ui's | 09:10 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/docker/docker/issues/6805 | 09:11 |
| kanzure | "This breaks separation of concerns. For example, if a sysadmin wants to change the URL at which an internal registry is available, all developers building on top of an image stored in that registry will need to change their Dockerfiles. In this example, we want the sysadmin to be free to change the URL (or other configuration aspects, for example authentication) without affecting the development workflow, and vice-versa." | 09:11 |
| kanzure | "and 2) how the image was transferred should not influence its name." | 09:11 |
| kanzure | no shit? | 09:11 |
| dingo | i've been enjoying using consul, i haven't used it with docker, but i read it compliments nicely | 09:12 |
| kanzure | are you using its key-value storage for config? | 09:12 |
| -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:13 | |
| kanzure | previously i was exclusively using it for service discovery but have been looking into using it for key-value storage stuff | 09:15 |
| dingo | just service discovery for now, i can't recall if we planned to use it for key-values or not | 09:20 |
| dingo | we got the whole openstack pile to work with, there might be something else for that in the stack | 09:20 |
| kanzure | got it | 09:22 |
| JayDugger | fenn: thorium stuff https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ecc0fa4d0bcf37ea04e9. | 09:29 |
| JayDugger | Pretty neat. | 09:29 |
| -!- superobserver [~superobse@unaffiliated/superobserver] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 09:53 | |
| -!- sheena [~home@S010690b134fc2e54.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 09:54 | |
| -!- citizen11 [~citizen11@gateway/tor-sasl/citizen11] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:57 | |
| kanzure | how can i get around needing tags like "git-git" and "github-github"? | 10:01 |
| kanzure | i suppose i could switch to "on-github"? | 10:01 |
| kanzure | "they-are-using-git-for-version-control" | 10:02 |
| kanzure | er, the tagging domain is bookmarks in this case | 10:02 |
| -!- citizen11 [~citizen11@gateway/tor-sasl/citizen11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 10:05 | |
| JayDugger | jotmuch, is it? | 10:11 |
| kanzure | yes | 10:12 |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 10:13 | |
| FourFire | JayDugger: where do I read the rest? | 10:20 |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:45 | |
| fenn | tangentially related https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperloop | 10:47 |
| JayDugger | All I've seen lies at that gist, FourFire. | 10:48 |
| kanzure | "... We don't believe that any other PKI mechenism is actually functional enough to be usable (e.g. as evidenced by the fact that downloads of our GPG signatures, is on the order of 1% of the downloads of the Bitcoin software; and probably only a small portion of those users have actually done anything to verify the signing keys) today, so other options haven't been a priority." | 10:50 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bIHKI07gAw | 10:52 |
| yoleaux | JJ Grant - Negative Influences (Matteo Monero Remix) - YouTube | 10:52 |
| kanzure | https://soundcloud.com/mistiquemusic/mist498-max-ivanovsky-astro-2 | 11:05 |
| kanzure | wow such curve fit https://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size | 11:08 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 11:14 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:21 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] | 11:32 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:37 | |
| kanzure | 12:08 < gmaxwell> And if memory is corrupted you can't rely on returning an error not making things worse. | 12:09 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: is this channel an archive for everything you find interesting? | 12:16 |
| kanzure | this channel is for coordinating transhumanism-related engineering and technology projects | 12:17 |
| justanotheruser | s/interesting/useful/ then? | 12:18 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration | 12:18 |
| justanotheruser | ok | 12:20 |
| kanzure | https://soundcloud.com/suffusedmusic/michael-levan-and-stiven-rivic | 12:20 |
| justanotheruser | kanzoracle: how long will this hcl burn last? http://imgur.com/R9JAGeZ | 12:22 |
| justanotheruser | this podcasts got some funky into music | 12:23 |
| justanotheruser | oh, its a mix, not a podcast | 12:24 |
| fenn | "we can replace all coal, oil, natural gas, and nuclear power by 2030 with wind, solar, and hydropower while fueling a fleet of electric cars. How? By deploying 3.8 million 5-megawatt wind turbines, 5,350 100-megawatt geothermal plants, 500,000 1-megawatt tidal turbines, 720,000 0.75-megawatt wave power generators, 1.7 billion 3-kilowatt rooftop solar panels, 40,000 300-megawatt solar panel | 12:36 |
| fenn | farms, and 49,000 300-megawatt concentrated solar power plants." oh is that all | 12:36 |
| justanotheruser | I wonder if the interest lost + mainenance costs of that infrastructure would cost more than coal and gas. | 12:38 |
| fenn | i didn't even realize there was such a thing as a 5 MW windmill | 12:38 |
| streety | is that for current use or projected 2030 use? entire world? | 12:39 |
| fenn | unclear | 12:41 |
| streety | what's the source? | 12:41 |
| streety | http://www.windpowermonthly.com/10-biggest-turbines - seems like 5MW turbines have been around since 2006 | 12:42 |
| fenn | http://web.stanford.edu/group/efmh/jacobson/Articles/I/susenergy2030.html | 12:42 |
| FourFire | wind power is incredibly environmentally destructive | 12:44 |
| FourFire | Nuclear all the way! | 12:44 |
| FourFire | just don't entrust dipshit half assing companies with the safety measures | 12:44 |
| fenn | ugh i hate this argument, "nuclear power results in up to 25 times the carbon emissions of wind energy [infrastructure]" | 12:44 |
| fenn | because nobody knows how to melt steel without burning coal? | 12:45 |
| fenn | what is this, the 1800's | 12:45 |
| fenn | oh on page 4 of the scientific american article they discuss power usage projections for year 2030, estimating 16.9TW global power demand | 12:47 |
| kanzure | dingo: microsoft has contributed some windows boxes to the bottom of the list on http://www.vagrantbox.es/ (and they are all massive >1 GB haha) | 12:47 |
| fenn | but somehow magically by using windmills it becomes 11.5TW? | 12:48 |
| streety | fenn: the nuclear claim is more stupid than that: from "February 15, 2014 American Association for the Advancement of Science presentation (pptx)" they state "9-25 times more pollution per kWh than wind from mining & refining uranium and using fossil fuels for electricity during the 10-19 years to permit (6-10 y) and construct (4-9 y) nuclear plant compared with 2-5 years for a wind or solar farm" | 12:55 |
| fenn | well sure, you have to build them first before you can switch over | 12:58 |
| fenn | but assuming we're in an all-out blitz to cover the earth in $power_type it shouldn't take 20-30 years to build | 12:59 |
| fenn | 20 years to get permits? wtf!!! !!! | 12:59 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/dublx/packer-terraform-docker-aws-test | 13:00 |
| kanzure | permits haha | 13:00 |
| streety | It's the permitting bit that gets me | 13:00 |
| fenn | maybe they are using the keystone XL pipeline permitting process as their data point | 13:01 |
| streety | nuclear is responsible for the carbon emissions prior to it being built? Oh, and lets increase that by slowing down permitting. | 13:01 |
| fenn | oh i read it wrong 6-10 years of permitting (still wtf) | 13:02 |
| kanzure | maybe those are concurrent years | 13:02 |
| fenn | no they add them together to get 10-19 years | 13:02 |
| -!- marciogm [~marciogm@unaffiliated/marciogm] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:02 | |
| -!- Jaakko9110 [~Jaakko@host81-152-212-26.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 13:06 | |
| -!- Jaakko9110 [~Jaakko@host86-152-82-130.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:06 | |
| kanzure | yep i think i like these guys https://soundcloud.com/suffusedmusic | 13:09 |
| delinquentme | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uloBD9xxwZ0 | 13:20 |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:22 | |
| fenn | this new infected mushroom stuff is hard to listen to.. makes me nauseous | 13:24 |
| fenn | .title | 13:25 |
| yoleaux | Infected Mushroom - Army Of Mushrooms Full Album - YouTube | 13:25 |
| fenn | entirely too many words | 13:27 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah; some of it is quite good when viewed from a 90's industrial perspective, but it's quite a jarring change | 13:40 |
| jrayhawk | I suppose gaining skills to graduate from ProTracker-module-aesthetics to industrial-music-aesthetics was a pretty common nerd trajectory back then. | 13:45 |
| -!- Shehrazad [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 13:50 | |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:50 | |
| delinquentme | why does being hungover effect how much sunlight is bothersome? | 13:51 |
| kanzure | you should get the anti-hangover gene | 13:52 |
| kanzure | hm i forgot about http://corte.si/%2Fposts/visualisation/entropy/index.html | 13:53 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Network | 13:54 |
| fenn | delinquentme: reduced blood flow to the temporal lobes due to dehydration prevents rejection of noise stimulus (randon guess) | 13:55 |
| fenn | also irritability from increased cortisol to keep your blood pressure up | 13:56 |
| fenn | drink pedialyte, yo | 13:56 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, there's a bajillion things to increase sensitivity to pain in a state of inflammation; the pain is probably induced by melanopsin signaling, but I don't know the specifics. | 13:57 |
| kanzure | "Mining your P's and Q's: Detection of widespread weak keys in network devices" https://factorable.net/weakkeys12.extended.pdf | 13:59 |
| jrayhawk | http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=melanopsin+pain | 13:59 |
| fenn | most of the results have to do with migraines, not hangover light sensitivity (unless it's the same thing?) | 14:01 |
| fenn | i don't drink, but i've read that alcohol is a diuretic, and dehydration is the source of hangover headaches | 14:02 |
| jrayhawk | acetylaldehyde is also important, there | 14:03 |
| jrayhawk | which is why glutathione precursors, most specifically NAC supplementation, are so effective in hangover intervention studies. | 14:03 |
| jrayhawk | intervention and/or prevention | 14:04 |
| fenn | i guess that's the idea behind the raw egg whites drink | 14:04 |
| kanzure | "rs671 is a classic SNP, well known in a sense through the phenomena known as the "alcohol flush", also known as the "Asian Flush" or "Asian blush", in which certain individuals, often of Asian descent, have their face, neck and sometimes shoulders turn red after drinking alcohol.[PMID 6582480]" | 14:05 |
| fenn | but whey would be more palatable | 14:05 |
| fenn | whey protein isolate | 14:05 |
| kanzure | "The rs671(A) allele of the ALDH2 gene is the culprit, in that it encodes a form of the aldehyde dehydrogenase 2 protein that is defective at metabolizing alcohol. This allele is known as the ALDH*2 form, and individuals possessing either one or two copies of it show alcohol-related sensitivity responses including facial flushing, and severe hangovers (and hence they are usually not regular drinkers). Perhaps not surprisingly they appear to ... | 14:05 |
| kanzure | ... suffer less from alcoholism and alcohol-related liver disease. [PMID 511165, PMID 16046871]" | 14:05 |
| jrayhawk | the BBB-permeability science is rather nascent, but maybe acetylaldehyde can cause it and induce mild migraines? | 14:06 |
| fenn | rats that immediately died when given alcohol tended not to be alcoholics, gee | 14:06 |
| kanzure | science! | 14:07 |
| jrayhawk | "Acetylated organic molecules exhibit increased ability to cross the selectively permeable blood-brain barrier." | 14:07 |
| jrayhawk | okay then | 14:07 |
| kanzure | http://h14s.p5r.org/2014/11/why-i-find-ieee-754-frustrating.html | 14:07 |
| delinquentme | went out w one of the devvs on dropcam last night | 14:07 |
| kanzure | "The licensing terms of the spec document are deeply problematic." <3 | 14:07 |
| delinquentme | was gut. | 14:07 |
| fenn | i still dont know what exactly causes migraines | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | bad migrations. | 14:08 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: cherish that, because such clear statements are uncommon | 14:08 |
| fenn | huh "Hangover headache pain varies in location but is usually centralized in the top right side of the brain." | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | LAWLLLLL oh yeah. asked a CTO from a startup the other night when was the last time he rebased. | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | he didnt know | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | tre lulz =///////////////////// | 14:08 |
| justanotheruser | fenn: so fucking fucked number was quite painful | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | justanotheruser, this is infected mush? | 14:09 |
| delinquentme | I like it ! lol | 14:09 |
| kanzure | "The most immediate problem is the licensing on the 754 document itself. Have you ever actually read it? I hadn’t until very recently. Do you ever see links from discussions around FP into the spec? I don’t, ever. There’s a reason for that and here it is, [screenshot, $71-$90/reader]" | 14:09 |
| kanzure | "The document is simply not freely available. This alone is a massive problem. Before you complain that people don’t implement your spec maybe stop charging them $88 to even read it?" | 14:09 |
| kanzure | "Can I copy it into my own spec or would that be copyright infringement? Can I write something myself that means the same? Or do I have to link to the spec and require my users to pay to read it? Even if I just say “see the spec”, might my complete implementation constitute infringement of a copyrighted structure, sequence, and organization?" | 14:09 |
| kanzure | "In short, I don’t know how to create FP bindings that conform to 754 without exposing myself to a copyright infringement lawsuit in the US from IEEE. Sigh." | 14:10 |
| justanotheruser | delinquentme: ? | 14:10 |
| jrayhawk | the functional medicine folks seems to be enamored with an etiology of BBB permeability+neurodisruptive factors for migraines | 14:10 |
| jrayhawk | free glutamate would explain the overactivation-and-then-seizure pattern seen in migraine research. | 14:11 |
| jrayhawk | But I highly doubt free glutamate is the only thing to cause severe problems when BBB permeability is an issue. | 14:12 |
| kanzure | "As an absolute minimum, fix the robots.txt so the spec meeting minutes become searchable." | 14:12 |
| fenn | glutamate is too simple and would have been discovered | 14:14 |
| fenn | there have been literally hundreds of papers on free glutamate toxicity | 14:14 |
| jrayhawk | BBB-permeability is very new, though | 14:14 |
| jrayhawk | well, it's been theorized by the fringe for a long time, but nobody likes the fringe | 14:14 |
| jrayhawk | http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=glutamate+migraine | 14:16 |
| fenn | wow google scholar actually works ish without javascript | 14:17 |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 14:18 | |
| jrayhawk | I haven't really seen any papers combining everything, sadly. | 14:18 |
| fenn | The concept of migraine as a state of central neuronal hyperexcitability. .. A low brain Mg2+ and consequent reduced gating of glutamatergic receptors may provide the | 14:19 |
| fenn | link between the physiologic threshold for a migraine attack and the mechanisms of the attack | 14:19 |
| fenn | itself by promoting glutamate hyperactivity, neuronal hyperexcitability... | 14:19 |
| fenn | so which is the problem here, low Mg2+ or glutamate? | 14:20 |
| jrayhawk | Probably all of the above! | 14:20 |
| jrayhawk | I, personally, get headaches from alcohol *real* fast; usually around 40 minutes after consumption. | 14:24 |
| jrayhawk | I assume my liver is just very burly. | 14:24 |
| * kanzure writes this vulnerability down | 14:24 | |
| kanzure | don't worry, i'll forget the file's path and never find it again anyway | 14:25 |
| fenn | i just get sleepy and do nothing | 14:25 |
| jrayhawk | seems like that should be a centralized file | 14:26 |
| jrayhawk | contingency-plans-and-leverage.txt | 14:26 |
| kanzure | for 20,000 people i know? that wont work. | 14:27 |
| jrayhawk | jrayhawk: vulnerabilities: crippling deontardation, bad software architecture, booze | 14:27 |
| kanzure | contingency-plans-and-leverage.yaml | 14:27 |
| jrayhawk | contingency-plans-and-leverage.sqlite | 14:28 |
| kanzure | now you're just being actively harmful | 14:28 |
| kanzure | steve was surprised about how accurately i had his thing down, | 14:28 |
| fenn | red wine, which had a negligible tyramine content, provoked a typical migraine attack in 9 of 11 such patients, whereas none of the 8 challenged with vodka had an attack. Neither red wine nor vodka provoked such episodes in other migrainous subjects or controls. These findings show that red wine contains a migraine-provoking agent that is neither alcohol nor tyramine. | 14:28 |
| kanzure | so why do you think i'd have you down any worse? | 14:28 |
| kanzure | actually i suppose steve is easy | 14:29 |
| kanzure | depending on your definition of easy here... uh.. | 14:29 |
| jrayhawk | vodka also produces headaches pretty fast, but i suppose i should never trust the booze industry not to put random garbage into their products | 14:30 |
| fenn | vodka could contain lectins and solanine(?) | 14:30 |
| fenn | and lps | 14:31 |
| jrayhawk | it's supposed to be multiply distilled; it should contain fuck-all | 14:31 |
| fenn | right | 14:31 |
| jrayhawk | but booze companies like adding their own distinctive flavor | 14:31 |
| jrayhawk | and labelling absolutely nothing | 14:31 |
| jrayhawk | because... i dunno, regulatory capture? how do they get away with that | 14:32 |
| fenn | one GC/MS per child | 14:32 |
| fenn | because alcohol is ATF and food labeling is FDA | 14:32 |
| fenn | myeah, see | 14:33 |
| jrayhawk | haha | 14:33 |
| fenn | ATF wtf is that | 14:33 |
| jrayhawk | evil incarnate | 14:33 |
| fenn | it's just so obviously a relic of a bygone era | 14:33 |
| fenn | tommy guns and speakeasies | 14:34 |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] | 14:38 | |
| kanzure | .title http://corte.si/%2Fposts/code/hilbert/portrait/index.html | 14:41 |
| yoleaux | cortesi - Portrait of the Hilbert curve | 14:41 |
| -!- drewbug [ad0a50b1@fsf/member/drewbug] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:42 | |
| -!- drewbug [ad0a50b1@fsf/member/drewbug] has quit [Client Quit] | 14:42 | |
| fenn | kanzure if you were actually interested in interplanetary transport networks http://tethers.com/MXTethers2.html | 14:44 |
| fenn | much better than simple gravity slingshot | 14:44 |
| kanzure | got it | 14:46 |
| superkuh | Everything with tethers is awesome. | 14:46 |
| superkuh | Have you read the NanoThor proposals? | 14:47 |
| superkuh | http://erewhon.superkuh.com/library/Space/Spacecraft/NanoTHOR_%20Low-Cost%20Launch%20of%20Nanosatellites%20to%20Deep%20Space_%20R%20Hoyt_%20J%20Slosad_%20G%20Jimmerson_%20J%20St%20Luise_%202012.pdf | 14:48 |
| -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:48 | |
| -!- upgrayeddd [sid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lrgpkybgjyrbpxps] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:49 | |
| -!- marciogm [~marciogm@unaffiliated/marciogm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:49 | |
| upgrayeddd | does anyone here have access to GVK catalogue? http://gso.gbv.de/DB=2.1/ | 14:49 |
| fenn | superkuh: so they're just using the residual propellant to boost a secondary payload? | 14:51 |
| superkuh | No propellant. | 14:51 |
| superkuh | Well, I guess the momentum of any remaining propellant, but that's not major. | 14:52 |
| upgrayeddd | kanzure: how did that ISBN bot work again? I am looking to get ISBN 1-56902-013-2 | 14:52 |
| kanzure | #notyourlibrarian | 14:52 |
| kanzure | wait.. | 14:52 |
| kanzure | (i might be your librarian) | 14:53 |
| kanzure | http://corte.si/posts/security/gotofail-mitmproxy.html "A few weeks ago, I posted that I had hacked up a version of mitmproxy that exploited CVE-2014-1266, giving unrestricted access to nearly all HTTPS traffic on affected IOS and OSX devices. I chose not to release working code at the time, but a number of POCs have been floating about publicly almost since the issue was first discovered. So, the time has come to publish - as of yesterday, ... | 14:53 |
| kanzure | ... mitmproxy's master branch supports #gotofail." | 14:53 |
| superkuh | The gradient in orbital angular momentum from a long 2-mass tether system in LEO is converted to rotational momentum and then tangential velocity. | 14:53 |
| fenn | either they're using propellant to spin up or electrical power to reel the cable in/out | 14:54 |
| fenn | apparently it doesn't take much to reach escape velocity from GEO | 14:54 |
| upgrayeddd | kanzure: can I get a nick at least? | 14:54 |
| kanzure | upgrayeddd: paperbot is dead for the moment, consider contributing devtime to https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot | 14:54 |
| upgrayeddd | ok :( | 14:55 |
| superkuh | The spin up is from the gravity gradient mostly. The retraction of the tether adds a small amount to this. | 14:55 |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:55 | |
| superkuh | Mostly for dynamic control, not energy. | 14:55 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:6091:a0d2:c381:3451] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:55 | |
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:55 | |
| fenn | i just dont see where a momentum difference could come from if they're launched on the same vehicle | 14:55 |
| superkuh | The first part of the paper describes mechanisms of spin up they will *not* use. | 14:56 |
| superkuh | So ignore those diagrams. | 14:56 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 14:56 | |
| superkuh | Burnin8 understands this far better than I do. If he notices this ping perhaps he can explain clearly. | 14:58 |
| -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-71-191-174-26.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 14:59 | |
| -!- Burn_ [~Burn@pool-71-191-174-26.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:59 | |
| fenn | i think the gravity gradient only contributes a stabilizing force which allows the tether to swing back and forth, which allows building up to higher kinetic energy levels than would be possible with a single electrically powered retraction | 14:59 |
| fenn | anyway i hope they get to launch something | 15:01 |
| fenn | it looks like they're designing around the arkyd space telescope/asteroid prospector | 15:02 |
| fenn | something that hasn't been discussed much is that momentum exchange tethers allow suborbital rockets like spaceshiptwo to transfer payloads to orbit | 15:13 |
| fenn | not that exact design, but you get to meet somewhere in the middle, instead of stacking stages up on top of one another until you get to a five story monster | 15:15 |
| streety | or presumably launch larger loads from rockets capable of orbit | 15:16 |
| fenn | sure but then you need a huge tether | 15:17 |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@77.88.71.253] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 15:17 | |
| fenn | i wonder how fast it can go.. delta-V = length * rotation speed | 15:18 |
| fenn | zylon has a characteristic velocity of 3 km/s | 15:20 |
| fenn | at a 1:1 payload to tether mass the tip speed is about 0.6 * characteristic velocity | 15:23 |
| fenn | at 30:1 tip speed is about 1.6 * characteristic velocity | 15:24 |
| fenn | so yeah about halfway there | 15:25 |
| fenn | orbital velocity is about 10km/s | 15:25 |
| fenn | er.. 7km/s | 15:35 |
| -!- Jaakko9110 [~Jaakko@host86-152-82-130.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] | 15:53 | |
| -!- yash [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:6091:a0d2:c381:3451] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:57 | |
| -!- justanot1eruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:58 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] | 15:58 | |
| -!- bbrittain [~bbrittain@172.245.212.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 15:58 | |
| kanzure | am i pedantic enough yet https://github.com/petertodd/python-bitcoinlib/pull/22 | 15:58 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:6091:a0d2:c381:3451] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 16:00 | |
| -!- smeaaagle [~smeaaagle@2001:4802:7803:104:be76:4eff:fe20:1ed8] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 16:02 | |
| -!- bbrittain [~bbrittain@172.245.212.12] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:03 | |
| -!- smeaaagle [~smeaaagle@2001:4802:7803:104:be76:4eff:fe20:1ed8] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:05 | |
| fenn | from __future__ import bitcoinlib | 16:18 |
| -!- skyraider [uid41097@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndsbdjwduaasniwa] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:19 | |
| kanzure | fenn: not necessary since it already exists | 16:22 |
| fenn | but the future version is better! | 16:22 |
| kanzure | "I created a draft BIP detailing a way to add auxiliary headers to Bitcoin in a bandwidth efficient way. The overhead per auxiliary header is only around 104 bytes per header. This is much smaller than would be required by embedding the hash of the header in the coinbase of the block. It is a soft fork and it uses the last transaction in the block to store the hash of the auxiliary header. It makes use of the fact that the last transaction ... | 16:23 |
| kanzure | ... in the block has a much less complex Merkle branch than the other transactions." | 16:24 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/TierNolan/bips/blob/aux_header/bip-aux-header.mediawiki | 16:24 |
| fenn | here's my bit of code for the week: xcalib -blue 1 0 1 -a; xcalib -green 2 0 70 -a #for yellow on black | 16:24 |
| kanzure | fenn: did you notice that ralph merkle joined ethereum | 16:24 |
| fenn | to clear: xcalib -c -a | 16:24 |
| fenn | no, i still havent even figured out what ethereum is | 16:24 |
| kanzure | you're stealing my color scheme now? | 16:24 |
| fenn | this is something like f.lux | 16:25 |
| fenn | basically you don't really need the blue channel and it probably messes up your circadian rhythm | 16:25 |
| fenn | i noticed that after reading lots of text in a dark room i would get light/dark bands "burned" into my vision | 16:26 |
| -!- sheena [~home@d154-5-153-82.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:34 | |
| -!- paperbot [~paperbot@131.252.130.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:00 | |
| kanzure | js openrisc emulator with network stack https://github.com/s-macke/jor1k | 17:05 |
| kanzure | demo http://s-macke.github.io/jor1k/ | 17:06 |
| kanzure | runs glxgears in the browser | 17:06 |
| kanzure | this is almost gross | 17:06 |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sitfomjbyprzhqms] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 17:07 | |
| -!- justanot1eruser is now known as justanotheruser | 17:07 | |
| jrayhawk | just wait until they implement enough of a network driver to properly handle HTTP requests | 17:11 |
| kanzure | xss will get weird | 17:14 |
| -!- hypron [~hypron@p8120-ipngn100105yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:14 | |
| -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 17:20 | |
| kanzure | "The MPI treatment of ``NaN'' is similar to the approach used in XDR (see ftp://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc1832.txt). ( End of advice to implementors.) " | 17:32 |
| kanzure | er.. okay. | 17:32 |
| kanzure | "Your branch is behind 'origin/master' by 1888 commits, and can be fast-forwarded." | 17:36 |
| jrayhawk | a bit worrying | 17:37 |
| kanzure | bitcoin.git | 17:38 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] | 17:46 | |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: you gonna be a coredev? | 17:46 |
| kanzure | i'm fixing some petertodd code at the moment | 17:55 |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 18:25 | |
| -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:26 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.147.27] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:26 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 18:33 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:38 | |
| -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@5.150.254.180] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:43 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:55 | |
| nmz787 | that openrisc emulator is damn cool, albeit slow... should make it even easier to learn stuff for kids and suc | 19:06 |
| nmz787 | such | 19:06 |
| kanzure | worked pretty snappy for me | 19:06 |
| kanzure | also this place is a circus https://github.com/petertodd/python-bitcoinlib/issues/6 | 19:06 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/jashmenn/bitcoin-reading-list | 19:08 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1700307.1700392 | 19:11 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2818.2007.01874.x/abstract | 19:13 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: http://ergodox.org/ | 19:14 |
| nmz787 | looks like the key switches are ~$70 alone http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/MX1A-11NW/CH160-ND/91134 | 19:16 |
| kanzure | paperbot is still busted? | 19:18 |
| -!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper168 | 19:28 | |
| kanzure | i am upset that i can't link to individual tracks https://soundcloud.com/suffusedmusic/sets/diary | 19:30 |
| kanzure | oh yes i can. sort of. https://soundcloud.com/suffusedmusic/frisky-diary-045?in=suffusedmusic/sets/diary | 19:30 |
| nmz787 | well it should definitely be able to get the last, here it is http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Imaging_with_neutral_atomsa_new_matter-wave_microscope.pdf | 19:30 |
| nmz787 | so that may be a zotero issue | 19:30 |
| kanzure | this is because of the aws problems | 19:30 |
| nmz787 | i don't see how that is, why haven't you added a try except? | 19:31 |
| kanzure | been busy with... stuff... | 19:31 |
| kanzure | blame skyraider | 19:31 |
| nmz787 | is that a person, company, or video game? | 19:32 |
| nmz787 | or helicopter piloting/pirating? | 19:32 |
| kanzure | yes | 19:32 |
| delinquentme | starscream | 19:36 |
| delinquentme | YEEEE | 19:36 |
| ebowden | Imagine, a biohacker engineers a myostatin knockout baby... | 19:48 |
| ebowden | I wonder how the biohacking community might feel about THAT headline. | 19:50 |
| kanzure | ebowden: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/ | 19:51 |
| ebowden | Thanks kanzure. | 19:54 |
| ebowden | By the way, in no way do I think a myostatin knockout baby would be easy to do. | 19:55 |
| ebowden | But if just ONE biohacker did it, all the fundies would come out of the woodwork and scream about how it's against jebus. | 20:02 |
| delinquentme | ebowden, and this is how we get free advertising | 20:03 |
| kanzure | er, they do that already even without myostatin | 20:03 |
| kanzure | i don't understand why you would care though | 20:03 |
| ebowden | delinquentme, heh | 20:03 |
| ebowden | Kanzure, those people can be very unpleasant. One of them might bomb a lab. | 20:04 |
| ebowden | *a lab or two. | 20:04 |
| kanzure | do you really care who happens to bomb a lab? | 20:05 |
| kanzure | i would think the bombing would be more important, there | 20:05 |
| ebowden | I care about the extra lab bombings that might come about. | 20:05 |
| kanzure | huh? | 20:06 |
| kanzure | you should care about any bombings whatsoever | 20:06 |
| ebowden | I do. | 20:06 |
| kanzure | but i don't see why you would treat those as different | 20:06 |
| kanzure | it just looks like an excuse to worry, to me | 20:06 |
| ebowden | Its because I don't like lab bombings that I don't want extra. | 20:07 |
| kanzure | what's so important about extra? | 20:08 |
| kanzure | how about just.. any? | 20:08 |
| ebowden | I know that lab bombings happen and will continue to. | 20:08 |
| kanzure | anyway you might be interested in reading up on why everyone is constantly being blown up in society | 20:09 |
| kanzure | *isn't constantly | 20:09 |
| kanzure | because so far the views you have espoused here would lead me to believe that everyone is constantly being blown up, and this is clearly not the case | 20:09 |
| ebowden | I believe there are SOME lab bombings. | 20:10 |
| kanzure | do you feel guilty for that? | 20:10 |
| ebowden | Nope. | 20:10 |
| kanzure | then you've lost me | 20:10 |
| ebowden | I just hold the apparently thought provoking view that more of them would be a bad thing. | 20:10 |
| ebowden | That said, what would we get done if we only did research that didn't piss off fundies and anti-gmo nutjobs? | 20:11 |
| ebowden | Significantly less, I think. | 20:12 |
| kanzure | so that sounds a lot like guilt to me | 20:12 |
| ebowden | I do not feel guilty at all. | 20:14 |
| ebowden | By the way: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2661250/ | 20:15 |
| kanzure | .title | 20:15 |
| yoleaux | The role of calsenilin/DREAM/KChIP3 in contextual fear conditioning | 20:15 |
| ebowden | www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096098220801614X | 20:17 |
| ebowden | .title | 20:17 |
| yoleaux | ebowden: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page. | 20:17 |
| ebowden | Oh, right. | 20:17 |
| ebowden | Lack of DREAM Protein Enhances Learning and Memory and Slows Brain Aging | 20:17 |
| ebowden | Consider adding that to your list. | 20:17 |
| -!- ElixirVitae [~Shehrazad@unaffiliated/shehrazad] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 20:18 | |
| ebowden | And beware of p53. | 20:21 |
| ebowden | http://www.jneurosci.org/content/17/4/1397.short | 20:21 |
| ebowden | p53 Expression Induces Apoptosis in Hippocampal Pyramidal Neuron Cultures | 20:21 |
| yash | aside from that being a very specific experiment, the intent was to introduce backup copies of p53 rather than just overexpress shit-tons of it everywhere | 20:23 |
| ebowden | That's why I'm about to link some others. | 20:24 |
| ebowden | Unfortunately my internet is a little slow. | 20:26 |
| ebowden | www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X05007084 | 20:26 |
| ebowden | This is just an interesting tangent while I wait for that damn page to load: http://www.pnas.org/content/88/11/5006.full.pdf | 20:27 |
| yash | ok well if we're engineering children to have redundant p53, immunity to HIV is part of the package | 20:28 |
| ebowden | It should be. | 20:28 |
| kanzure | yash: how does jax ship lab mice? | 20:29 |
| yash | I've never had to work with mice thankfully | 20:29 |
| kanzure | lame | 20:29 |
| yash | fuckers bite | 20:29 |
| kanzure | bite them back damn it | 20:30 |
| yash | however I guess http://jaxmice.jax.org/jaxnotes/507/507s.html | 20:30 |
| yash | "ultimate mouse comfort" | 20:30 |
| kanzure | .title | 20:30 |
| yoleaux | JAX Mice Shipping Containers: Comfortable, Clean, and Recyclable - The Jackson Laboratory | 20:30 |
| kanzure | "the food and water supplies in the containers are more than adequate to maintain 20 mice for up to 7 days" | 20:30 |
| kanzure | "the mice shipped by commercial air carriers are still at SPF status when they arrive at their destinations 1 month later." | 20:31 |
| kanzure | i want to get disney to sue these guys somehow | 20:31 |
| kanzure | i'm sure it's possible | 20:31 |
| ebowden | heh | 20:32 |
| yash | oh and wrt the third paper ebowden, I'm too jetlagged/lazy to read it but it seems to deal with mutated p53, wt p53 itself is not causing breast cancer | 20:32 |
| ebowden | Did say it was a tangent. | 20:33 |
| ebowden | Unless I sent the wrong link. | 20:33 |
| ebowden | In which case I done goofed. | 20:33 |
| ebowden | And this is another sort of cool tangent: http://www.pnas.org/content/96/13/7547.short | 20:34 |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 20:35 | |
| ebowden | Also: http://www.pnas.org/content/97/10/5346.full?sid=d0776647-521f-4907-b676-9c74d6ed85e5 | 20:36 |
| yash | side note, every week there's a new paper associating X gene with Y phenotype, and unless there's a strong obvious correlation I'd be hesitant to put it on the list, especially brain stuff | 20:36 |
| ebowden | I've seen shitloads of them on that BDNF polymorphism for just about everything. | 20:37 |
| ebowden | For some reason it has attracted a lot of research. | 20:38 |
| yash | yeah probably | 20:39 |
| ebowden | Anyway, in this case, knocking out p53 actually caused apoptotic lesions, it ended up messing with the expression of some other proteins. | 20:42 |
| ebowden | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23605646 | 20:42 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1007%2Fs12192-013-0428-9 | 20:42 |
| ebowden | .title | 20:42 |
| yoleaux | ebowden: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page. | 20:42 |
| ebowden | Overexpression of Hsp27 ameliorates symptoms of Alzheimer's disease in APP/PS1 mice. | 20:42 |
| ebowden | That is sort of neat. | 20:43 |
| -!- justanotheruser is now known as yandere | 20:43 | |
| -!- yandere is now known as justanotheruser | 20:43 | |
| ebowden | Also: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC514815/ | 20:46 |
| ebowden | But: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10573111 | 20:46 |
| yash | perhaps I am just too jaded on research, but "transgene improves some measurements of mouse disease model when we get stretchy with p-values" papers do come out every week | 20:47 |
| ebowden | heh | 20:48 |
| ebowden | A title of a paper that might one day exist: | 20:49 |
| yash | I'm sure the fine hungarian scientists publishing in [Springer journal with the exact title of the subject matter] have really hit on something; ok I'll stop | 20:49 |
| ebowden | P-values: Do we really need them for feel-good research? | 20:49 |
| ebowden | :D | 20:49 |
| yash | eventually they'll find some profit-sharing agreement with click-bait popsci websites to fund their research, and the cycle will be complete | 20:50 |
| ebowden | Just today I saw an article with the title: Virus Intelligence: Are Viruses Alive and Sentient? | 20:51 |
| jrayhawk | it's a conspiracy. viruses are the ones who've been doing the p-hacking all along. | 20:52 |
| ebowden | It made me wonder two things: How is the writer defining intelligence, and who the hell publishes this kind of shit? | 20:52 |
| jrayhawk | i dunno, i could see ways for it to be true | 20:53 |
| yash | a remarkable number of retractions occur because the cell lines turned out to be virally contaminated...perhaps it's not so coincidental after all | 20:53 |
| jrayhawk | i mean, you'd have to stretch some definitions pretty thin, but that's how self-aggrandizing works | 20:53 |
| jrayhawk | given 1) a fair percentage of the OTUs in the gut aren't even classifiable into existing kingdoms 2) the gut pretty much controls neurology and 3) most genomes are basically made of viruses, I can see pretty much arbitrarily sophisticated behavioral claims being made until research catches up. | 20:56 |
| jrayhawk | which will probably be a couple decades | 20:56 |
| ebowden | The same author also published: The Very Intelligent Ebola Virus Takes Front and Center | 20:57 |
| ebowden | Not as bad as my creationist brother in law though. | 21:03 |
| ebowden | He once gave me creationist propaganda for my birthday. | 21:03 |
| ebowden | I shit you not. | 21:03 |
| jrayhawk | culture warriors oblivious to epistemic quality? i think you're shitting me! | 21:11 |
| ebowden | Apparently, in order to believe in evolution, the pathogenesis HIV, and gravity whilst remaining intellectually sound it is a requirement that you understand it all and spend a lot of time debunking and endless supply of denialist material. | 21:15 |
| -!- rayston [~rayston@ip68-106-242-42.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 21:16 | |
| jrayhawk | if culture warring is ineffective, you're clearly not doing it hard enough | 21:16 |
| jrayhawk | sort of how if you're in a foreign country and they don't understand what you're saying in english, the solution is to SAY IT LOUDER | 21:16 |
| -!- yash [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:6091:a0d2:c381:3451] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 21:19 | |
| ebowden | He claims to have spent 25 years researching evolution and science. | 21:19 |
| ebowden | Yet, he believes that dropping a magazine is sufficient scientific proof of the theory of gravity. | 21:20 |
| ebowden | Apparently, there wasn't a whole lot of debate on it. | 21:21 |
| jrayhawk | on the theory of gravity? | 21:21 |
| ebowden | A scientist just got up in front of an auditorium and dropped a magazine, and everyone went: "Ohhhhh, right. Makes sense now." and applauded. | 21:22 |
| jrayhawk | so does that mean gravitons do or don't exist | 21:22 |
| ebowden | Apparently it doesn't matter. | 21:23 |
| jrayhawk | i guess that's largely true | 21:23 |
| ebowden | At least according to my creationist brother in law. | 21:23 |
| nmz787 | pfft, pope endorses big bang | 21:23 |
| nmz787 | tell him that | 21:23 |
| nmz787 | apparently the last pope or two did too | 21:24 |
| jrayhawk | i don't think "endorse" is a fair characterization | 21:24 |
| nmz787 | at least evolution | 21:24 |
| nmz787 | idk, that's what I read a few days ago | 21:24 |
| nmz787 | that he said big bang ain't no joke | 21:24 |
| jrayhawk | saying something is "not inconsistent with our religious beliefs" is not really a ringing endorsement | 21:24 |
| nmz787 | basically, since he speaks italian | 21:24 |
| nmz787 | i see it as it could be | 21:24 |
| nmz787 | why not | 21:24 |
| jrayhawk | pooping your pants is "not inconsistent with my religious beliefs", but that doesn't mean i endorse pooping your pants | 21:26 |
| nmz787 | does it even say not to poop your pants though? | 21:26 |
| nmz787 | specifically? | 21:26 |
| nmz787 | oh | 21:27 |
| nmz787 | well | 21:27 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 21:27 |
| jrayhawk | nevermind, i endorse pooping your pants | 21:27 |
| nmz787 | idk, i have never compared the big bang or physics to pooping pants | 21:27 |
| nmz787 | they seems like much different implications | 21:27 |
| nmz787 | people do science all over the place every day | 21:28 |
| jrayhawk | gross | 21:28 |
| nmz787 | pooping of the pants must happen much less | 21:28 |
| nmz787 | so it is making a common thing more acceptable | 21:28 |
| nmz787 | if it was pooping of the pants that he mentioned not being inconsistent, then it must have been a topic of interest to the public/masses | 21:29 |
| nmz787 | thus his mention /is/ important | 21:29 |
| jrayhawk | sure, it's culture-war countersignalling, but "endorse/disclaim" is a false dichotomy | 21:30 |
| nmz787 | i don't get what your latter half means | 21:30 |
| nmz787 | if it's false doesn't that mean they're one? | 21:31 |
| jrayhawk | it means there are either less than or more than two options | 21:31 |
| jrayhawk | in this case, endorse is a subset of not-disclaim, and disclaim is a subset of not-endorse | 21:32 |
| jrayhawk | you can't infer that subset | 21:32 |
| nmz787 | i don't see how they can seem so different though | 21:34 |
| nmz787 | the point is important in general | 21:35 |
| nmz787 | it is OK now | 21:35 |
| jrayhawk | Saying "gamergate is not about media ethics" is culture war countersignalling. Saying "Gamergate is not about misogyny" is also culture war countersignalling. Similarly, these two statements are not contradictory. | 21:36 |
| jrayhawk | Saying "I do not disclaim evolution" is culture war countersignalling. Saying "I do not endorse evolution" is also culture war countersignalling. These two statements are not contradictory. | 21:37 |
| jrayhawk | Culture warriors really *really* wish each of these comparisons were contradictory because it frames their warring as legitimate. | 21:38 |
| nmz787 | i actually don't know what gamergate is | 21:41 |
| jrayhawk | http://paxdickinson.wordpress.com/2014/10/29/three-modern-grassroots-rebellions/ is the probably the most concise explanation I can give you. | 21:43 |
| jrayhawk | the alternative is "read some of yudkowsky and most of scott alexander" | 21:43 |
| nmz787 | are you saying that the pope is bluffing/aiming-to-confuse (and thus madden)? | 21:43 |
| jrayhawk | No. | 21:45 |
| nmz787 | honestly none of the jargon in that article makes much sense to me | 21:46 |
| jrayhawk | He has seen a tribal fight and elected not to get involved. | 21:46 |
| nmz787 | maybe it's because i don't play games? | 21:46 |
| -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@5.150.254.180] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 21:47 | |
| jrayhawk | i guess "go read most of scott alexander" will have to do, then | 21:49 |
| nmz787 | is it about games though? is it important? | 21:51 |
| jrayhawk | in the "game theory" sense, otherwise mostly no, not about games. | 21:53 |
| jrayhawk | and yes, understanding the dynamics of culture wars is pretty deeply important. | 21:53 |
| jrayhawk | If you don't, you'll wonder why e.g. creationists attack you with meaningless epistemology. | 21:56 |
| jrayhawk | and what to do about it | 21:56 |
| nmz787 | i tend to avoid people pretty well | 22:03 |
| nmz787 | but it is concerning that it could come up | 22:03 |
| nmz787 | but honestly, saying 'i don't know much more than that I heard the pope say\'s it\'s all good, I'll have to think about your opinion for a while, thanks!' | 22:04 |
| -!- snuffeluffegus [~snuff@5.150.254.180] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:05 | |
| nmz787 | is probably how i'd confront that | 22:05 |
| nmz787 | why feed some weird meme? | 22:05 |
| nmz787 | unless they were banging on my lab door | 22:07 |
| nmz787 | that would be something more concerning | 22:07 |
| nmz787 | huh, two back-to-back screens for sharing in meetings and such http://www.asus.com/Notebooks_Ultrabooks/ASUS_TAICHI_21/ | 22:10 |
| -!- justanotheruser is now known as justanother | 22:20 | |
| -!- justanother is now known as justanotheruser | 22:20 | |
| nmz787 | dang, 3k display on this baby http://www.amazon.com/Zenbook-UX303LN-DB71T-Quad-HD-Display-Touchscreen/dp/B00KTL21RA/ | 22:49 |
| nmz787 | $1300 | 22:49 |
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:57 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 22:58 | |
| jrayhawk | yoga 2 has had that for a while | 23:04 |
| nmz787 | frys.com has 2 4k laptops | 23:10 |
| -!- HashNuke [sid12117@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nntuiknqayqojhli] has left ##hplusroadmap [] | 23:26 | |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vogczrykoexfpuxu] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:32 | |
| -!- thundara [~thundara@despair.OCF.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 23:47 | |
| --- Log closed Sun Nov 09 00:00:10 2014 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
