| --- Log opened Fri Nov 14 00:00:50 2014 | ||
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| nmz787_i | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/092442479187112G | 01:25 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | "sometimes the yak just needs a haircut" | 01:26 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Automatic%20compensation%20for%20the%20temperature%20coefficient%20of%20a%20photodiode%20in%20short-circuit%20mode%0A%20.pdf | 01:26 |
| fenn | nmz787_i: http://fennetic.net/irc/theres_just_something_about_photodiodes.pdf | 01:28 |
| nmz787_i | thanks | 01:28 |
| fenn | maybe i should fix paperbot | 01:30 |
| fenn | or at least give it a haircut | 01:31 |
| fenn | the zotero stuff scares me | 01:31 |
| fenn | kanzure i think the chinese manufacturing spam emails are harvested from the openmanufacturing list or skdb code | 01:56 |
| fenn | i find it amusing though, some of the stuff they're selling is interesting | 01:56 |
| fenn | "need a giant rubber bag made of discarded tires woven togther? buy now!" | 01:57 |
| fenn | .wik geotextile | 01:57 |
| yoleaux | "Geotextiles are permeable fabrics which, when used in association with soil, have the ability to separate, filter, reinforce, protect, or drain." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geotextile | 01:57 |
| fenn | heh Behrokh Khoshnevis is the guy hyping Contour Crafting (3d printed houses) | 02:00 |
| fenn | co author of "knowledge representation for automated process planning" | 02:01 |
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| archels | anyone going to TransVision 2014? | 03:03 |
| archels | Aubrey de Grey, Anders Sandberg, Natasha Vita-More are some of the line-up | 03:04 |
| archels | 3 days, registration is free | 03:05 |
| nmz787_i | fenn: I was thinking we could start with making a 'pdfbot' that requires you to give it a .pdf link... humans are currently pretty successful at being able to do that | 03:27 |
| nmz787_i | that way we can ensure the downloader stuff works | 03:28 |
| fenn | often there is no pdf link | 03:29 |
| fenn | unless you already have access | 03:29 |
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| nmz787_i | fenn: my exprozy proxy thing was meant to take a URL and return the data but fetched from the proxy... so if it was given a URL to an HTML file with no PDF link (but a placeholder), it would return an HTML of the logged-in version of the page | 03:58 |
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| kanzure | paperbot should revert to working if nmz787's changes are removed | 05:28 |
| kanzure | .botsnack | 05:28 |
| yoleaux | :D | 05:28 |
| fenn | the ezproxy stuff? | 05:31 |
| fenn | or make_libgen_doi_url? | 05:33 |
| fenn | rather than return "pdf" in response.headers["content-type"] maybe shoud do a "file" command (tests for magic numbers in the downloaded file) | 05:35 |
| kanzure | ezproxy stuff | 05:35 |
| kanzure | quite literally you can get away with reverting his commits literally | 05:35 |
| fenn | i see a lot of potentially useful stuff in here; i'd rather not just throw it all out without understanding what's going on | 05:36 |
| kanzure | fuck that | 05:37 |
| kanzure | i reimplemented it in paperbot v2 in paperbot/ | 05:37 |
| kanzure | just haven't tested that stuff (and it's also not hooked up to zotero) | 05:38 |
| fenn | uh, why arent we using paperbot v2 then? | 05:38 |
| kanzure | because it doesn't implement or communicate with zotero | 05:38 |
| kanzure | also because it doesn't have irc parts | 05:38 |
| fenn | i hate zotero anyway | 05:38 |
| kanzure | and no tests.. | 05:38 |
| kanzure | well, if you want to replicate their work go for it: https://github.com/zotero/translators | 05:39 |
| fenn | yeah there is a lot of bullshit there | 05:39 |
| kanzure | okay so there's "finishing up paperbot v2" and then there's "git revert commit1..commitN" on paperbot v1.... | 05:40 |
| fenn | would it make sense to move paperbot v2 onto a branch | 05:45 |
| kanzure | only if you want it to involve deleting paperbot v1 | 05:47 |
| kanzure | or overriding paperbot v1 things | 05:47 |
| kanzure | otherwise, it seems okay existing in the same branch at the moment | 05:47 |
| fenn | i'm just going to run "production" paperbot on 6cb280fa7b31ddefe8844bf71ddb32823b435f9f then | 05:49 |
| kanzure | right.. revert ce1d123a9c25309764bad3b729e8f4e4ce95cdaa..ae35ea0895ae027902105ccfd9702f84e027879f inclusive | 05:56 |
| * kanzure is done sending hate mail to melanie | 05:57 | |
| kanzure | i can't believe ieet publishes that sort of crap | 05:58 |
| kanzure | http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/swan20141113 | 05:58 |
| kanzure | that chart is like 90% wrong | 05:58 |
| kanzure | why is it that ieet has been so anti-transhumanist and anti-doing-good-work since forever | 06:00 |
| kanzure | is there some sort of physical intolerance they have to doing good work? | 06:00 |
| kanzure | or do they merely exist to upset me with low quality junk? | 06:01 |
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| fenn | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/092442479187112G | 06:03 |
| Qfwfq | Any decent CLI tools for research paper organisation? My ~/tmp/papers is a mess. | 06:03 |
| Qfwfq | Other than, say, 'mkdir' and 'mv'. | 06:04 |
| fenn | topic modeling or various machine learning software i guess | 06:04 |
| kanzure | jotmuch | 06:05 |
| paperbot | IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/home/bryan/public_html/papers2/paperbot/\n Automatic compensation for the temperature coefficient of a photodiode in short-circuit mode\n .pdf' (file "/srv/ikiwiki/paperbot/modules/papers.py", line 511, in download_url) | 06:05 |
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| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/092442479187112G | 06:06 |
| Qfwfq | So I thought. GitHub search doesn't bring up anything useful, but most have decent enough OCR that I could figure out something on my own. | 06:06 |
| fenn | what commit is paperbot now? | 06:06 |
| fenn | also i think that was a bad download (note the \n's in the title) | 06:06 |
| Qfwfq | Or, at least, embedded text for recent stuff. | 06:06 |
| kanzure | whatever was pushed to /srv/git/paperbot.git | 06:06 |
| fenn | i didnt push anything | 06:07 |
| kanzure | then how do you expect this to work | 06:07 |
| Qfwfq | jotmuch is neat | 06:07 |
| fenn | usually you have a release branch and checkout that branch to actually run it | 06:08 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Automatic%20compensation%20for%20the%20temperature%20coefficient%20of%20a%20photodiode%20in%20short-circuit%20mode%0A%20.pdf | 06:08 |
| fenn | uh.. but i was lazy and just checked it out without making a branch | 06:08 |
| kanzure | there are other reasons why paperbot is brittle and can only be run under my account etc... | 06:08 |
| kanzure | (environment variables too...) | 06:08 |
| * Qfwfq proxy envy | 06:09 | |
| fenn | anything besides hardcoded paths and scihub_password? | 06:09 |
| Qfwfq | Oh, you're using scihub | 06:10 |
| fenn | theoretically | 06:10 |
| Qfwfq | I should map Tor exit nodes to see if any have provide journal access | 06:10 |
| kanzure | LOGGING, and write access | 06:10 |
| kanzure | Qfwfq: https://github.com/NullHypothesis/exitmap | 06:10 |
| Qfwfq | Yep | 06:11 |
| kanzure | i apologize for all the hardcoded paths but v2 don't have that shit | 06:13 |
| fenn | ok i dont know about git branching but i made a branch "v1" which is probably broken, but it's from just before nmz's commits | 06:17 |
| kanzure | puuush it | 06:18 |
| gnusha_ | paperbot: reload papers | 06:18 |
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| fenn | oh i see | 06:19 |
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| yorick | Qfwfq: let me know if you find something | 06:19 |
| yorick | or make something | 06:19 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/092442479187112G | 06:19 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Automatic%20compensation%20for%20the%20temperature%20coefficient%20of%20a%20photodiode%20in%20short-circuit%20mode%0A%20.pdf | 06:20 |
| kanzure | er... | 06:21 |
| fenn | that's about what i expected | 06:21 |
| kanzure | that may be good or bad | 06:21 |
| fenn | try a url that has worked | 06:21 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7067/abs/nature04405.html | 06:22 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnature04405 | 06:22 |
| kanzure | blah | 06:22 |
| kanzure | (brb) | 06:24 |
| fenn | ugh i hate python code with **kwargs) | 06:26 |
| fenn | "and then shove some unknowable crap on the end" | 06:27 |
| fenn | rcallahan i'm looking at you | 06:32 |
| fenn | wtf is this: def _fn(*ar, **kw): | 06:32 |
| fenn | oh wait that was pwang | 06:33 |
| yorick | Qfwfq: have you seen the SNARK paper? zero-knowledge proofs of correct program execution | 06:33 |
| Qfwfq | yorick: Nope, but mail me a copy and I'll check it out on the right side of the Ballmer curve? | 06:39 |
| Qfwfq | exitmap is pretty slow | 06:39 |
| yorick | can paperbot find SNARKs for C Verifying Program Executions Succinctly and in Zero Knowledge | 06:40 |
| yorick | paperbot: help | 06:40 |
| fenn | paperbot prefers links | 06:40 |
| fenn | .g SNARKs for C Verifying Program Executions Succinctly and in Zero Knowledge | 06:40 |
| yoleaux | https://eprint.iacr.org/2013/507.pdf | 06:40 |
| yorick | yeah that's the one | 06:40 |
| yorick | Qfwfq: ^ | 06:40 |
| yorick | (not that I understand much of it) | 06:41 |
| Qfwfq | http://www.tau.ac.il/~tromer/papers/csnark-20130816.pdf | 06:41 |
| fenn | it's all greek | 06:42 |
| kanzure | that's actually on the server already | 06:43 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/snarks/ | 06:43 |
| yorick | kanzure: the bitcoin pegged sidechains paper referred to it as a shiny new sidechain example that I forgot about why it was so whiny | 06:47 |
| yorick | shiny* | 06:47 |
| kanzure | bug andytoshi | 06:47 |
| fenn | it lets you do SPV proofs without exchanging a lot of data (i think, not that i even know what that means) | 06:48 |
| fenn | because "proofs" are really just a bunch of results of coin-flipping experiments | 06:48 |
| fenn | like "if you're so smart what's 2+2" | 06:49 |
| fenn | key word is "Succinctly" | 06:49 |
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| kanzure | so er paperbot is back to sorta working i think | 07:00 |
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| kanzure | .title https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5280 | 07:05 |
| yoleaux | setmocktime RPC command for regression testing by gavinandresen · Pull Request #5280 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub | 07:05 |
| fenn | declare victory and go home | 07:18 |
| kanzure | me being pedantic: | 07:20 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5282 | 07:20 |
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| kanzure | https://www.humanbrainproject.eu/documents/10180/538356/HBP+Achievements+Year+1/d0dc08df-cdc7-4242-a677-eef632f622c3 | 07:51 |
| kanzure | paperbot: https://www.humanbrainproject.eu/documents/10180/538356/HBP+Achievements+Year+1/d0dc08df-cdc7-4242-a677-eef632f622c3 | 07:52 |
| kanzure | "Evolutionary acquisition of behavior to build structural objects by virtual creatures" | 07:53 |
| kanzure | so did they actually get little bugs to make novel bug-built structures? | 07:54 |
| fenn | i didnt read it but i thought they just threw blocks into piles | 07:54 |
| kanzure | ants don't really build an ant colony, it just sort of happens | 07:54 |
| kanzure | as a result of local action by many agents that may not know the overall plan | 07:54 |
| kanzure | (or that their behavior is causing structures to be built) | 07:54 |
| kanzure | "if you turn left long enough, good things happen" | 07:54 |
| fenn | what does that have to do with the human brain project?! | 07:55 |
| kanzure | i was closing tabs | 07:56 |
| fenn | ok nm | 07:56 |
| fenn | the link is a huge pdf | 07:56 |
| fenn | just a bunch of neuron porn | 07:58 |
| archels | did someone say neuron porn | 07:59 |
| kanzure | "BigBrain reconstruction: A human post mortem brain has been processed, 3D reconstructed, and published as the BigBrain data set (Amunts et al., Science, 2013). The challenges of unifying different scales and data types into a common reference system for human brain modelling are outlined by Amunts et al. in Neuroimage (2014)." | 08:00 |
| kanzure | "Brain simulation software: HBP efforts have been aligned with community-driven roadmaps for the NEST, NEURON, and STEPS simulators, ensuring long-term viability and global community participation. In its first year, the HBP has achieved substantial scale-up of NEST on massively parallel computers (Kunkel et al., Frontiers in Neuroinformatics, 2014), a reduction of the memory footprint by a factor of six in NEURON, and advances in the ... | 08:01 |
| kanzure | ... parallelisation of STEPS." | 08:02 |
| kanzure | "Microcircuits: A first draft cellular and synaptic reconstruction and simulation of the rodent somatosensory microcircuit with 207 different cell-types and 40 million synapses has been completed and released through an online portal." | 08:02 |
| andytoshi | yorick: hiya, i can answer sidechain and snark qs | 08:02 |
| archels | yeah, Katrin Amunts gave pretty imrpessive presentation on that a month or two ago | 08:02 |
| kanzure | "Mesocircuits (brain regions): Simulation of a part of the rodent neocortex with 3 million morphological detailed neurons and 400 million dynamic synapses has been achieved. A first draft reconstruction of the cerebellar network of neurons has also been made." | 08:02 |
| yorick | andytoshi: I don't really have questions | 08:03 |
| kanzure | "Large-scale simulation: Models with 3 million morphologically detailed or 1 billion point neurons can now run routinely on the supercomputers at CSCS and JUELICH, respectively." | 08:03 |
| kanzure | "Software development: A prototype tool for indexing exascale spatial data sets is ready to be deployed on the Platform. Libraries for streaming simulation data to visualisation and for streaming remotely generated imagery content to high-resolution display walls have been developed. A first version of the coarse-grained programming model PyCOMPSs has been developed and is already in use." | 08:03 |
| andytoshi | yorick: roughly, sidechains work by isolated blockchains embedding compact proofs in each other ... snarks let you create compact proofs for waaay more things than are currently feasible, that's all | 08:04 |
| andytoshi | "that's all" | 08:04 |
| kanzure | "Portable neuromorphic systems: For both hardware systems, small-scale portable neuromorphic computing devices have been produced. These devices are USB add-ons for conventional laptops and are now in use by outside groups and students to explore the potential of neuromorphic computing." | 08:05 |
| kanzure | seems to be it | 08:05 |
| fenn | i liked the look of the neurorobotics platform, can't find any images online yet | 08:06 |
| archels | not sure what to make of 'achievements' that have been formulated in such a dumbed-down manner | 08:06 |
| kanzure | well, the reconstruction sounds useful i guess, if they can get it to run in nest/neuron/steps | 08:07 |
| fenn | hmm supposedly there are 3000 images in this pdf | 08:07 |
| kanzure | and maybe the hardware is nest/neuron/steps-optimized | 08:07 |
| kanzure | and "a common reference system" for brain modelling is pretty important. | 08:08 |
| kanzure | archels: can you find the links for paperbot to try to fetch? (for those references in the quotes) | 08:08 |
| kanzure | (Amunts et al., Science, 2013) | 08:08 |
| kanzure | Amunts et al. in Neuroimage (2014) | 08:08 |
| kanzure | Kunkel et al., Frontiers in Neuroinformatics, 2014 | 08:08 |
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| archels | paperbot: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/340/6139/1472.full.pdf | 08:09 |
| kanzure | hrm maybe it's still busted | 08:10 |
| kanzure | sigh | 08:10 |
| kanzure | fenn: in addition to additive/subtractive manufacturing, and motion-based assembly, how would you classify chemical reactions or unique material properties that are not explained as clumping two pieces of matter together. (in the context of the process planning stuff from last evening) | 08:11 |
| fenn | coool http://fennetic.net/irc/neurorobotics.jpg | 08:12 |
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| archels | hehe | 08:13 |
| archels | that chap is no less impressive in real life | 08:13 |
| archels | there's a bunch of support equipment sitting in a box behind it though, which hasn't yet been worked into the body itself | 08:14 |
| archels | at least, last time I saw it (last year-ish) | 08:14 |
| kanzure | support equipment is fine as long as it's not a battery | 08:15 |
| kanzure | or er, i mean, as long as it's not power | 08:15 |
| kanzure | a battery is okay, if it actually fits on the chasis or something | 08:15 |
| kanzure | but tethered robots are so 70s | 08:15 |
| fenn | no, it must be able to digest dirt and generate nuclear power from trace elements | 08:15 |
| fenn | and fly | 08:16 |
| kanzure | "congrats, your robot legs attached to 5 meter thick steel rod from your ceiling can move its legs... now what." | 08:16 |
| fenn | it does seem like they could do better than a two-stroke chainsaw motor | 08:17 |
| fenn | noisy solution | 08:17 |
| fenn | the boston robotics mule for example | 08:17 |
| archels | like BigDog | 08:17 |
| archels | aye | 08:17 |
| fenn | like, what about stirling engines | 08:18 |
| archels | that's like expecting humans to get by on photosynthesis | 08:18 |
| fenn | it would burn ethanol or whatever (bender would be proud) | 08:19 |
| kanzure | archels did you meet that robot | 08:19 |
| archels | yes, and its brother | 08:19 |
| archels | back at Zürich | 08:19 |
| fenn | why aren't there any photos online? | 08:19 |
| fenn | does it have a name? | 08:19 |
| archels | they're called Ecce | 08:20 |
| archels | http://www.ifi.uzh.ch/ailab/robots.html | 08:20 |
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| archels | oh, they even have Ecce mailing lists | 08:21 |
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| fenn | kanzure i would describe chemical reactions as processes. in my paradigm (manufacturing) techniques utilize processes to accomplish desired change | 08:25 |
| kanzure | if humans were only limited to making motion-based plans, then there'd be no way to know that mixing chemicals would make something useful | 08:26 |
| fenn | the FDM technique utilizes a plastic melting process to make plastic parts | 08:26 |
| fenn | the SLA technique utilizes a light sensitive chemical reaction process to make plastic parts | 08:27 |
| kanzure | those machines sort of hide that though ("just gimme the shape you want") | 08:27 |
| fenn | it still happens though | 08:27 |
| fenn | .wik it still moves | 08:27 |
| yoleaux | "It Still Moves is the third album by the rock band My Morning Jacket. The album garnered positive reviews and is often considered the band's best work alongside Z. The song "Run Thru" is included in Rolling Stone's "100 Greatest Guitar Songs". The album also marks the first appearance of drummer Patrick Hallahan." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Still_Moves | 08:27 |
| fenn | bah | 08:28 |
| fenn | .wik eppur si muove | 08:28 |
| yoleaux | ""And yet it moves" or "Albeit It does move" (Italian: Eppur si muove; [epˈpur si ˈmwɔːve]) is a phrase said to have been uttered before the Inquisition by the Italian mathematician, physicist and philosopher Galileo Galilei (1564–1642) in 1633 after being forced to recant that the Earth moves around the Sun rather than the opposite way." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eppur_si_muove | 08:28 |
| fenn | kanzure all human activity is accomplished by moving something | 08:30 |
| kanzure | that doesn't mean that human planning consists solely of knowledge about human movement | 08:30 |
| fenn | whether typing or rotating a temperature setting knob | 08:30 |
| kanzure | if it only took moving and flopping around, we would have had a singularity thousands of years ago | 08:31 |
| fenn | arguably we did | 08:31 |
| fenn | holocene epoch | 08:31 |
| eudoxia | sigh what's this stuff where every important period in human history is termed a singularity | 08:32 |
| eudoxia | .wik singularity | 08:32 |
| yoleaux | "Disambiguation: Singularity" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularity | 08:32 |
| eudoxia | of son of a bitch | 08:32 |
| eudoxia | .wik technological singularity | 08:33 |
| yoleaux | "The technological singularity hypothesis is that accelerating progress in technologies will cause a runaway effect wherein artificial intelligence will exceed human intellectual capacity and control, thus radically changing or even ending civilization in an event called the singularity." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity | 08:33 |
| kanzure | er, i don't think historians have ever argued that recursive self-improvement happened | 08:33 |
| eudoxia | has posthuman intelligence appeared? no? therefore no singularity | 08:33 |
| fenn | that's a pretty narrow view | 08:33 |
| eudoxia | yes | 08:34 |
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| fenn | so nanotech without AI doesn't qualify? | 08:34 |
| eudoxia | if nanotech leads to posthuman intelligence, sure | 08:34 |
| eudoxia | if it doesn't, not a singularity | 08:34 |
| fenn | bah | 08:34 |
| fenn | i respectfully disagree, sir | 08:34 |
| kanzure | what is the functional benefit of having a singularity definition like that though | 08:35 |
| archels | we're just going to keep redefining what it means to be human so that we never actually reach a post-human state | 08:36 |
| fenn | Stanislaw Ulam described "ever accelerating progress of technology and changes in the mode of human life, which gives the appearance of approaching some essential singularity in the history of the race beyond which human affairs, as we know them, could not continue" | 08:36 |
| archels | just like with "artificial intelligence" | 08:36 |
| kanzure | oh please.. the singularity isn't about revisionism. | 08:36 |
| kanzure | hard takeoff has a very speciifc meaning | 08:36 |
| kanzure | http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/AI_takeoff | 08:36 |
| fenn | this comes out of ideas about what it's like falling into a black hole ... you never actually get to the black hole | 08:37 |
| archels | kanzure: that definition is even more vague | 08:37 |
| kanzure | that sounds unrelated though | 08:37 |
| archels | anyway, a discussion about the precise conditions under which a singularity can be said to have happenend is probably without much merit | 08:38 |
| eudoxia | i never liked the word anyways | 08:38 |
| fenn | because it's been abused and used to mean something else without explicitly recognizing the change in meaning | 08:40 |
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| fenn | singularity just means "we cant predict what happens next" | 08:41 |
| fenn | but not in a chaotic system | 08:41 |
| kanzure | okay then what's the word for ai-making-better-ai | 08:41 |
| fenn | "intelligence explosion" i guess | 08:42 |
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| archels | recursive self-improvement | 08:43 |
| fenn | that can apply to humans tho | 08:43 |
| kanzure | that's fine | 08:44 |
| kanzure | and should be acceptable (why would it matter if it's "human" or "not human"?) | 08:44 |
| fenn | i dunno | 08:44 |
| fenn | humans have a fixed lifecycle | 08:44 |
| fenn | at least i dont see anyone talking about making adult clones in less than a second | 08:44 |
| kanzure | that is not necessarily required | 08:45 |
| catern | i sure do | 08:47 |
| catern | robin hanson | 08:47 |
| catern | depends by what you mean by clone i suppose | 08:47 |
| catern | depends on* | 08:48 |
| fenn | catern: link? | 08:48 |
| catern | http://hanson.gmu.edu/uploads.html | 08:50 |
| catern | he has written about this a lot | 08:50 |
| catern | http://www.overcomingbias.com/tag/ems | 08:50 |
| fenn | right, well, some people think uploads are just "neuromorphic ai" | 08:50 |
| kanzure | is that a problem ? | 08:50 |
| fenn | lol “I Robot, You Unemployed” | 08:51 |
| fenn | so many wildly different definitions for "human" | 08:53 |
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| fenn | that's racist! | 08:55 |
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| heath | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8599955 | 09:09 |
| heath | .title | 09:09 |
| yoleaux | Idea that intestinal bacteria affect mental health gains ground | Hacker News | 09:09 |
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| heath | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8591038 | 09:12 |
| yoleaux | Plants talk to each other using an internet of fungus | Hacker News | 09:12 |
| fenn | "Do you know of any studies supporting the 10x [programmer] idea that have been done in the past 30 years?" | 09:13 |
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| maaku | fenn: humans can't (yet) improve their computing substrate | 09:24 |
| maaku | that's the distinction that makes AGI so transformative | 09:25 |
| maaku | with WBE simply being brute-force AGI | 09:26 |
| fenn | i remember being amazed that someone had actually done a scientific experiment on programmers (programmer performance in batch computing vs interactive) | 09:26 |
| fenn | this seems like a huge blind spot | 09:26 |
| kanzure | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIFm8Jtk-B0 | 09:26 |
| kanzure | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQaE6SorjR8 | 09:26 |
| fenn | .title | 09:26 |
| yoleaux | Rage! - YouTube | 09:26 |
| fenn | i should have some reference on projectrho about space battles not being like naval battles | 09:34 |
| fenn | also about how scifi spaceships almost always look totally implausible | 09:36 |
| heath | a few nice tips for simulating packet loss and latency | 09:37 |
| heath | http://www.bravenewgeek.com/sometimes-kill-9-isnt-enough/ | 09:37 |
| fenn | this is what spaceships looks like http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/realdesigns.php | 09:37 |
| kanzure | it wasn't completely ridiculous http://cdn.androidpolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/nexus2cee_unnamed-95.png | 09:37 |
| kanzure | and it's not a bad way to spend a few hours | 09:37 |
| kanzure | i think i'm going to convince andytoshi to go see it tonight with me | 09:37 |
| fenn | where's the reaction mass? where's the fuel? why is it square? | 09:39 |
| fenn | it looks more like a telecom relay | 09:39 |
| kanzure | i wasn't aware that's what we're calling square these days | 09:39 |
| fenn | square things in a circle | 09:39 |
| fenn | no radiators | 09:40 |
| fenn | must run on magic | 09:40 |
| kanzure | runs on love | 09:41 |
| fenn | weapons-grade love | 09:41 |
| kanzure | worst propellant ever | 09:41 |
| fenn | james cameron put all this effort into his spaceship and it gets like 10 seconds of screen time | 09:42 |
| fenn | wtf world | 09:42 |
| andytoshi | kanzure: see what? something dylan thomas related? | 09:47 |
| kanzure | interstellar | 09:47 |
| andytoshi | kk convinced ;) | 09:48 |
| maaku | i need to see that | 09:55 |
| kanzure | i can only take people in austin | 09:55 |
| heath | might be time for a google hangout over your phone | 09:56 |
| kanzure | and for some reason i think taking the entirety of blockstream would be like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auJnn1iPeGE | 09:56 |
| maaku | heh IMAX over mobile hangout isn't the same ;) | 09:57 |
| maaku | haha awesome. i hadn't seen that episode | 09:58 |
| kanzure | wouldn't be a google hangout, would just be slack | 09:58 |
| kanzure | "SSLMate [https://sslmate.com] sells SSL certs from the command line for $15.95/year. The sslmate command line tool takes care of properly generating the key and CSR, and properly assembling the certificate bundle containing the chain certificate. Certificates secure both example.com and www.example.com. No more hard-to-use websites or obscure openssl commands." | 10:03 |
| kanzure | cc jrayhawk | 10:03 |
| kanzure | oh, if it's just a replacement for openssl commands, nevermind | 10:03 |
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| heath | not sure what to think about this | 10:53 |
| heath | http://edge.org/conversation/the-myth-of-ai | 10:53 |
| heath | not much time to look at it really | 10:53 |
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| maaku | heath: i only read the intro and conclusion, but it sounds like "let's not talk about computers as people because that'll make our jobs easier" | 11:00 |
| maaku | which doesn't seem like much of an argument... | 11:00 |
| fenn | jaron lanier isn't worth the time | 11:05 |
| kanzure | haha they let jaron on edge.org that's hilarious | 11:18 |
| kanzure | are they accepting just anyone these days? | 11:18 |
| fenn | he was always punching above his weight | 11:20 |
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| kanzure | "edge.org presents marc fawzi" | 11:23 |
| kanzure | i have been acked https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5282#issuecomment-63111391 | 11:24 |
| fenn | you are now one of the few, the elite, the illuminati masters of the invisible web of money that controls our world, from the land itself to the food in a baby's mouth | 11:25 |
| kanzure | not my first pull request | 11:26 |
| maaku | yes, kanzure was inducted in the shadowy bretheren of the coin some time ago | 11:28 |
| kanzure | i bought my way in with papers and cool science | 11:29 |
| fenn | if you can't baffle them with bullshit, spam them to death | 11:29 |
| * fenn prays to the dread god Gish | 11:30 | |
| kanzure | so fenn what about my code flinging. surely that's worth something. | 11:30 |
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| fenn | i have no idea | 11:31 |
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| fenn | wow, jaron lanier thinks there isn't an algorithm good enough to pilot a drone and kill people | 11:33 |
| fenn | or that it isn't important or something | 11:33 |
| kanzure | you already knew he was not too clever | 11:34 |
| fenn | he also thinks there aren't self-driving cars | 11:35 |
| nmz787_i | my car keeps driving just fine when i let go of the steering wheel, sometimes | 11:35 |
| fenn | "eppur si muove" | 11:36 |
| nmz787_i | internets are weird, I wonder how many science/engineering people have their business licenses at their home address | 11:36 |
| nmz787_i | fenn: is that a translation of 'you sir are an idiot'? | 11:36 |
| fenn | not in so many words | 11:37 |
| nmz787_i | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7LrViaPq7M | 11:37 |
| fenn | .title | 11:37 |
| yoleaux | You, sir, are an idiot - YouTube | 11:37 |
| kanzure | he lost everything on bitcoin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95PWAA-kXAc | 11:39 |
| nmz787_i | lol | 11:42 |
| nmz787_i | :D | 11:42 |
| nmz787_i | the simpsons are one of the few TV things I watch these days, and they aren't as whopper-packed as they were/seemed when I was a kid, but they definitely still have some zingers now and then. The Simpsons are my extended family, I hope they don't ever stop having a new weekly episode. | 11:44 |
| nmz787_i | there are a bunch of good videos and books (apparently) on math and the simpsons, which is pretty cool | 11:44 |
| kanzure | you would accept the simpsons as your extended family over hplusroadmap? geeze | 11:45 |
| kanzure | you're going to make paperbot cry | 11:45 |
| paperbot | :( | 11:46 |
| fenn | heavy investment in a high-end bookmark company | 11:47 |
| fenn | that's a good enough description of hplusroadmap | 11:47 |
| kanzure | "buy irc m.d. bonds" | 11:48 |
| fenn | .title http://www.philosophersnet.com/games/identity.php | 11:52 |
| yoleaux | Stayling Alive | 11:52 |
| fenn | choose your own adventure | 11:52 |
| fenn | for some reason after being gradually transitioned to silicon they forced me back into an organic body | 11:53 |
| fenn | not much of a choice | 11:53 |
| nmz787_i | nah hplusroadmap is part of my extended family too, it's more real but in a more-apparently virtual manner | 12:13 |
| fenn | what if we had animated yellow avatars with spherical eyes that tracked your mouse cursor | 12:17 |
| nmz787_i | would they be ASCII avatars? | 12:20 |
| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8607499 | 12:21 |
| yoleaux | Inmates at California’s San Quentin prison learn to code | Hacker News | 12:21 |
| fenn | there should be a tv show called "so you think you can code" | 12:25 |
| kanzure | dramatization of code reviews? | 12:26 |
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| fenn | well i guess most celebrity coders wouldn't be particularly engaging and charismatic on television, so it would have to be more like junkyard wars where you have a team try to build something and then the teams race each other at the end | 12:28 |
| fenn | i guess this is what the demoscene is all about anyway | 12:28 |
| fenn | pouet | 12:29 |
| kanzure | thanks for fixing up paperbot | 12:30 |
| fenn | lol | 12:30 |
| kanzure | not sarcasm | 12:30 |
| kanzure | nobody ever touches the code | 12:30 |
| fenn | i didnt do anything | 12:30 |
| kanzure | such modesty | 12:30 |
| fenn | it takes a while to get familiar with what exists before you can fix anything | 12:31 |
| nmz787_i | oO there are new commits? | 12:31 |
| fenn | not being able to just run paperbot as a command line script makes a barrier to entry also | 12:31 |
| nmz787_i | this is running code or for the v2? | 12:31 |
| nmz787_i | fenn: agreed | 12:31 |
| fenn | its the same old code | 12:32 |
| fenn | i just added a branch tag | 12:32 |
| kanzure | the code in paperbot/paperbot/ is more runnable as a command line tool, although there's no entrypoint yet | 12:32 |
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| fenn | it only has paperbot.logging when i load it as a python module | 12:34 |
| kanzure | either edit __init__.py or import something (import paperbot.whatever) | 12:36 |
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| fenn | what's the point of "_prefixed to avoid cluttering namespace" | 12:42 |
| fenn | the namespace is so uncluttered it's empty | 12:43 |
| kanzure | certain functions are irrelevant to the actual purpose of a file or module | 12:44 |
| kanzure | just call me pedanto, lord of pedanticism | 12:44 |
| fenn | yes my lord | 12:47 |
| nmz787_i | lately i've been using namespaces more and more to avoid being confused about where a function is being imported from | 12:47 |
| fenn | ok this is a lot easier to wrap my head around | 12:47 |
| kanzure | that's because it's not a pile of shit | 12:48 |
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| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=5a65286b fenn: connect things together for easy interactive exploration of paperbot capabilities | 13:02 |
| gnusha_ | paperbot: reload papers | 13:02 |
| fenn | i just added submodules to __init__ | 13:02 |
| kanzure | "reload papers" doesn't actually work right now | 13:03 |
| kanzure | so if you want that to actually happen you should bug me | 13:03 |
| fenn | ok | 13:03 |
| kanzure | otherwise gnusha's attempt will continue to not do anything | 13:03 |
| fenn | it is running v1 which is in modules which is not what i'm working on | 13:03 |
| kanzure | right | 13:07 |
| kanzure | and also, i have a git working dir somewhere else that is not getting those pushes, so gnusha asking for a reload wont do nothin' | 13:07 |
| kanzure | and also, python reload() is pretty bonkers anyway | 13:07 |
| kragenjaviersita | yeah | 13:08 |
| fenn | maybe gnusha should not try to reload then, since anyone can tell paperbot to reload if they want | 13:09 |
| kragenjaviersita | reload() brings in the entire problem of persistence and schema upgrade | 13:09 |
| kragenjaviersita | it's unavoidably bonkers | 13:10 |
| kragenjaviersita | not patching existing objects, as in Python, is one of the less useful things it could be doing I guess | 13:10 |
| kragenjaviersita | I've beeen playing a lot with interval arithmetic today and yesterday in Python | 13:11 |
| kanzure | paperbot only listens to gnusha | 13:11 |
| kragenjaviersita | this has been a surprisingly unproductive thin to do | 13:11 |
| kanzure | and reloading is not actually bad (afaik) | 13:12 |
| kragenjaviersita | I got a little bit of a speedup on Mandelbrot | 13:12 |
| kragenjaviersita | but not much | 13:12 |
| fenn | is modelo mature? i just got some error about TraitError being undefined | 13:12 |
| kanzure | oh yeah i keep forgetting to fix that | 13:12 |
| kanzure | so, TraitError is undefined yes | 13:12 |
| kanzure | but it would still be raising an error anyway | 13:12 |
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| kanzure | have you changed anything? | 13:13 |
| kragenjaviersita | because | 13:13 |
| fenn | the error was in modelo | 13:14 |
| kanzure | it's raising TraitError, which is undefined | 13:14 |
| kanzure | so even if it was defined, you would still be getting an error | 13:14 |
| fenn | /home/fenn/py-lib/modelo/trait/trait_types.pyc in validate(self, obj, value) | 13:14 |
| fenn | right but it shouldnt do that | 13:14 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/modelo/issues/1 | 13:15 |
| fenn | oh this is yours | 13:15 |
| kanzure | i stole it from d3vz3r0 | 13:15 |
| kanzure | and dingo worked on something very similar in a past life | 13:15 |
| fenn | yeah it seems like a good idea | 13:15 |
| kanzure | "what do you mean you don't want to use a database?" | 13:15 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3656 | 13:24 |
| kanzure | haha "Reissuing a transaction without reusing the inputs is unsafe. You cannot do this and be confident you will not be robbed, because there is nothing preventing both transactions from going through. No amount of checking can provide protection in that case, because the prior transaction may not have gone through yet but still may go through for as long as it has not been conflicted— or even after it has been, if the conflict can be ... | 13:25 |
| kanzure | ... removed in a reorg. It may be slow, it may not work super well, but it is the only way to prevent transactions from being paid twice. This has nothing to do with malleability: You simply cannot pay someone twice and not risk them actually getting paid twice, unless their original payment is impossible or the transactions are mutually exclusive." | 13:25 |
| nmz787_i | some guys were talking at work a few days ago about how bitcoin doesn't support reversible transactions, but their bank/credit-cards do... I tried arguing that the banks/CCs have that agreement/protocol setup and also involve insurance companies in the chance that some deadbeat spends stolen money and ends up in jail but never paying back. So that the reversal of fraudulent charges wasn't inherent to cash or banking, but to the | 13:36 |
| nmz787_i | agreements of the large transaction processors. | 13:36 |
| kanzure | i think the correct argument there is that "your merchants are eating the costs of that by giving you a markup of 3-8%" | 13:43 |
| fenn | ...whether you pay with a credit card or not | 13:43 |
| kanzure | sometimes they charge you less if you have cash on you | 13:44 |
| kanzure | (er, and choose to pay in cash) | 13:44 |
| delinquentme | In what instances is a DOI insufficient to locate a paper? | 13:44 |
| kanzure | papers without DOIs | 13:44 |
| kanzure | next question? | 13:44 |
| kanzure | what's the DOI for einstein's thesis | 13:45 |
| delinquentme | generalize the set of papers which doesn't have a DOI | 13:46 |
| nmz787_i | comparison of comet size to city of L.A. http://i.imgur.com/cF9fmG2.jpg | 13:46 |
| delinquentme | yeahh nmz787 some local news tried to do this comparison. Printed downtown map of oakland ... 3D printed comet ... WAM! placed comet on the map of downtown | 13:48 |
| delinquentme | made no mention of scale | 13:48 |
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| delinquentme | #newsSTORY! | 13:48 |
| delinquentme | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25376054 | 13:48 |
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| delinquentme | Oh anddddd | 13:49 |
| delinquentme | who do we know @ scripps | 13:49 |
| kanzure | dingo_: delinquentme is wondering which papers might not have DOIs | 13:50 |
| kanzure | dingo_: also, do you know of a good python pep8 linter thingy? | 13:51 |
| dingo_ | i guess it would be published by a publisher not willing to register with doi.org | 13:51 |
| kanzure | oh yeha, flake8 | 13:51 |
| dingo_ | I'm using 'prospector' now | 13:51 |
| kanzure | dingo_: right.. so papers that are 100 years old? 200? with dead publisher | 13:51 |
| dingo_ | yeah, dead publisher is the key there, because even 200-year old pamphlets get a DOI if somebody cares to put the work into it | 13:52 |
| dingo_ | i still recall jstor's internal doi by heart, 10.2307 | 13:53 |
| dingo_ | prefix, i should say | 13:54 |
| dingo_ | https://gist.github.com/jquast/30a5296e7c4439fc374a | 13:55 |
| dingo_ | thats a .prospector.yaml i use | 13:55 |
| kanzure | i have passed your sage advice upstrema to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5282#issuecomment-63132149 | 13:56 |
| kanzure | *upstream | 13:56 |
| dingo_ | heh from the context around your small patch, this would fail a lot of lint | 13:57 |
| dingo_ | styling, anyway | 13:57 |
| kanzure | yes | 13:59 |
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| fenn | bleh time for bed | 14:02 |
| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=0eb2995a fenn: typo | 14:02 |
| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=b9a84563 fenn: forgot metakey in format keywords | 14:02 |
| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=9a702bb1 fenn: thinko | 14:02 |
| gnusha_ | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/paperbot/commit/?id=713e978f fenn: dont puke if the storage path is not writable | 14:02 |
| gnusha_ | paperbot: reload papers | 14:02 |
| kanzure | commits happened! | 14:02 |
| fenn | a wild commit appeared! | 14:03 |
| kanzure | better battle it to death | 14:03 |
| fenn | (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? | 14:03 |
| kanzure | (y)es | 14:04 |
| fenn | Flail | 14:04 |
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| * nmz787_i can hear the battle music | 14:21 | |
| nmz787_i | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jmty_NiaXc | 14:21 |
| yoleaux | Pokemon Red, Yellow, Blue Battle Music- Trainer - YouTube | 14:21 |
| nmz787_i | hah, I will now associate this music with the lag in paperbot's response time | 14:22 |
| * nmz787_i smiles | 14:22 | |
| nmz787_i | http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html | 14:30 |
| nmz787_i | pretty cool 90 second animation | 14:31 |
| nmz787_i | fenn: wouldn't you want to also check for access on /tmp/ | 14:33 |
| nmz787_i | or is that always writeable | 14:33 |
| nmz787_i | heh, fallback to not being able to write /tmp/ could be to return a private-message to the requestor with a base64 string :P | 14:34 |
| nmz787_i | sketch I made earlier for programmable smell generator: http://imgur.com/5yt6e4o | 14:44 |
| nmz787_i | tubing would be this type of stuff http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-3520/Poly-Tubing/1-x-1500-2-Mil-Poly-Tubing-Roll?pricode=WY747&gadtype=pla&id=S-3520&gclid=Cj0KEQiAypGjBRCPme6jmqu3gZsBEiQA8NAiIM9PzJFXtuk317w7wM5WUZNVaKg1QnODKJ4qQOe5yAcaAlJt8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds | 14:44 |
| kanzure | the electric field in this room is throwing my groove off | 14:54 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, any idea if there are open source version of the single-cell selection microfluidic devices built by fluidigm? | 15:06 |
| delinquentme | in 96 / 384 / 1536 | 15:06 |
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| nmz787_i | I haven't seen anything like that | 15:20 |
| nmz787_i | not as a CAD design at least... lots of journal PDF pics | 15:20 |
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| kanzure | yep, journal pdf pics are about it | 15:22 |
| kanzure | sorry to bring you such bad news | 15:22 |
| nmz787_i | open source SDR up to 30 MHz http://hackaday.io/project/1538-portablesdr survey here to be notified of kit/assembled device availability https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/2XVXMY2 | 15:24 |
| delinquentme | what would I be looking at cost wise for 1 off prints @ 10um feature sizes? | 15:24 |
| nmz787_i | depends on turn around time and smoothness requirements | 15:25 |
| delinquentme | lel. also i sent a question to someone @ quakes lab mentioning a particular technique published in someone elses research | 15:25 |
| delinquentme | curious to see what le respond is | 15:25 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, should I just hit the comercial mfgs ? | 15:26 |
| delinquentme | and can I just prototype this in any cad software? | 15:26 |
| nmz787_i | also depends if you mean 10 um wide channels, or 10 micron wide minimum line-width (since the line width is different from the space with which you can place adjacent lines) | 15:26 |
| nmz787_i | most of them want solidworks if they list that info at all | 15:27 |
| nmz787_i | most are on more of a relationship basis | 15:27 |
| nmz787_i | the industry is not at the CNC level of operation unless you are a semiconductor mfg | 15:27 |
| nmz787_i | and in that case you need big minimum order quanitites | 15:27 |
| nmz787_i | delinquentme: if you want to write some software for converting freecad models to FIB models, I can probably work with you on initial designs for free/barter (for coding) | 15:28 |
| nmz787_i | I also have a kicad board (arduino shield) for rs232 sniffing and emulation, which will enable field-of-view stiching and drift-correction | 15:29 |
| nmz787_i | I am open to be convinced that this could be open-source (certainly the arduino board) | 15:30 |
| nmz787_i | kanzure: that was a question for you actually, what license should I use for the board, and also for the software? | 15:30 |
| nmz787_i | kanzure: can you just tell me, not point me to the wiki | 15:30 |
| nmz787_i | delinquentme: for FIB operations around the world you can likely buy time by the minute or half-hour... where an hour is around $375 (so $6.25 / minute) | 15:32 |
| nmz787_i | delinquentme: and you can calculate cost based on beam ablation rates | 15:32 |
| nmz787_i | assuming you don't need the operator to do anything more than machine your parts | 15:33 |
| nmz787_i | even a non-FIB shop will need to discus things though... you may give them a CAD file but then it may not be realistic for their processes... and will have to converse with you about what your actual needs are and how to adjust the design to fit the available toolset. | 15:34 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, isnt a FIB a bit overkill? | 15:35 |
| nmz787_i | this toolset is a little different at any place you go to until you hit the TSMC level of fab scale | 15:35 |
| delinquentme | i guess though that would easily get you what you need for the positive | 15:35 |
| nmz787_i | FIB is very direct, that is a strength it has for sure | 15:36 |
| nmz787_i | you can mill and add wires sequentially in the same machine | 15:36 |
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| nmz787_i | s/add wires/add a range of chemicals which enhance/selectively etch or deposit materials/ | 15:37 |
| nmz787_i | and the process is essentially some form of CNC | 15:37 |
| nmz787_i | so your computations for a toolpath (if you desire something more trivial than just a top-down ablation procedure) are pretty much the same for any other milling machine with those same degrees-of-freedom | 15:38 |
| nmz787_i | (i.e. tilt and rotate and xyz postition) | 15:39 |
| nmz787_i | delinquentme: you might try finding if there is useful info here, I haven't checked http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/services/eFoundry.htm | 15:41 |
| nmz787_i | but again, that is not one-off scale at all, or even one-wafer | 15:41 |
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| delinquentme | nmz787, so FIB can certainly handle more than just a 2D design right? | 16:22 |
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| nmz787 | delinquentme: yep | 16:39 |
| nmz787 | delinquentme: you can think of a basic machine as an xyz CNC, so a drill press (Z) and an XY table | 16:40 |
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| nmz787 | delinquentme: but then a lot of the systems have at least a rotating stage, and most also have tilt | 16:41 |
| nmz787 | or maybe tilt is more common than rotation... or they're equally common | 16:41 |
| nmz787 | cheapest FIB new is around $500k and runs completely off a 10 or 15A 110V AC system... so most of the 'shop fee' is operator time and making up the purchase-cost (and also consumables such as injectable gasses and the FIB source) | 16:43 |
| nmz787 | but it's essentially an old T.V. with a ions instead of electrons, so it's not terribly hard to grasp conceptually | 16:45 |
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| ebowden | nmz787, what's an FIB? | 16:48 |
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| nmz787 | .wik FIB | 16:52 |
| yoleaux | "Fib may refer to:" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIB | 16:52 |
| nmz787 | .wik focused ion beam | 16:52 |
| yoleaux | "Focused ion beam, also known as FIB, is a technique used particularly in the semiconductor industry, materials science and increasingly in the biological field for site-specific analysis, deposition, and ablation of materials. An FIB setup is a scientific instrument that resembles a scanning electron microscope (SEM)." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focused_ion_beam | 16:52 |
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| ebowden | Thanks. | 17:05 |
| nmz787 | is that good enough, or do you need more explaining? | 17:05 |
| ebowden | Good enough. | 17:28 |
| ebowden | Thankyou. | 17:28 |
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| jrayhawk | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uUL4ooM6KI god bless america | 17:57 |
| jrayhawk | .title | 17:57 |
| yoleaux | Dancing magnetotactic bacteria - YouTube | 17:57 |
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| jrayhawk | nevermind that the rednex are swedish and most westerns are italian | 17:58 |
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| maaku | *most good westerns | 18:00 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: you're asking for licensing hints about what in particular? | 18:33 |
| nmz787 | i asked in ##electronics and they said to use MIT | 18:38 |
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| kanzure | for software sure | 18:40 |
| kanzure | for hardware designs and schematics sure | 18:41 |
| kanzure | but all the other hardware stuff is more murky | 18:41 |
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| kanzure | you can choose a copyright license to express your intent but obv. it wont hold up against patent law | 18:41 |
| kanzure | still, it is generally considered nice to apply some open source software license to your hardware to express intent at least | 18:41 |
| delinquentme | what are the commercial implications of fabricating a microfluidic chip with novel assemblies which was paid for by NSF ? | 18:46 |
| delinquentme | will I get sued if I open source designs? | 18:46 |
| kanzure | what do you mean by "assemblies"? | 18:48 |
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| delinquentme | designs would be a better word | 18:59 |
| kanzure | http://recode.net/2014/11/14/bitcoin-company-coinbase-raising-new-investment-at-400-million-valuation/ | 19:00 |
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| nmz787 | fenn: got kicad installed? | 20:28 |
| nmz787 | fenn: here are the gerbers for a thing I just made | 20:29 |
| nmz787 | https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/Vs4zWf41 | 20:29 |
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| nmz787 | fenn: trying to clean up the kicad files now to upload then | 20:31 |
| nmz787 | them* | 20:31 |
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| --- Log closed Sat Nov 15 00:00:51 2014 | ||
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