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| delinquentme | BTW human evolution / combinatorics is a really efficient way to breed really sexy humans | 01:09 |
|---|---|---|
| bkero | Nah, mostly a way to breed humans who are themselves good at breeding | 01:11 |
| delinquentme | http://instagram.com/abigailratchford | 01:15 |
| delinquentme | bkero, simply play it by the numbers | 01:16 |
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| jrayhawk | i am with delinquentme on this one | 01:50 |
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| poppingtonic | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nmeth/journal/v10/n9/full/nmeth.2560 | 03:06 |
| archels | that link doesn't even work | 03:10 |
| poppingtonic | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nmeth/journal/v10/n9/full/nmeth.2560.html | 03:15 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnmeth.2560 | 03:15 |
| poppingtonic | archels: doh, forgot 'html' | 03:15 |
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| kanzure | hmph | 04:18 |
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| andytoshi | posted on schneier's blog https://medium.com/stanford-select/keeping-secrets-84a7697bf89f | 06:18 |
| kanzure | hello | 06:24 |
| kragen | heaveno | 06:28 |
| kanzure | "Even if Inman could get a bill through Congress, Hellman said, the First Amendment would make it difficult to prevent researchers from speaking publicly about their work. If they didn’t publish their papers, “they’ll give 100 talks before they submit it for publication.”" | 06:30 |
| kanzure | i bet i could give 100 talks... oh. | 06:30 |
| archels | hah, HackerNews filters out submissions that mention the keyword "Thalmic" | 06:33 |
| archels | http://hackaday.com/2014/11/18/thalmic-labs-shuts-down-free-developer-access/#comment-2152507 | 06:33 |
| kragen | yesterday we were talking about spambots that work hard enough that they are useful | 06:38 |
| kanzure | older firmware https://s3.amazonaws.com/thalmicdownloads/firmware/myo-firmware-0.8.18-revd.hex | 06:38 |
| kanzure | kragen: cheaper not to bother | 06:39 |
| kragen | in a sense HN is the reverse | 06:40 |
| kragen | by being a useful source of news they are able to suppress news they don't like | 06:40 |
| kanzure | yawn | 06:41 |
| kanzure | well-known bias is boring and obvious | 06:41 |
| kragen | heh | 06:41 |
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| kanzure | https://github.com/kevinburke/hamms "Hamms is designed to elicit failures in your HTTP Client. Connection failures, malformed response data, slow servers, fat headers, and more." | 07:20 |
| kanzure | strange testing tool https://github.com/github/scientist | 07:23 |
| kanzure | cool, my third-deep grandfather's movie thingy is up on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48jHfRVZ7rQ | 07:45 |
| kanzure | hm no that's the wrong ancestry | 07:52 |
| kanzure | fenn: this site will be killed soon, might have some relevant things http://space.mike-combs.com/ | 07:54 |
| kanzure | like http://space.mike-combs.com/SCTHF.html | 07:54 |
| kanzure | or http://space.mike-combs.com/TCoS.html | 07:54 |
| kanzure | .title | 07:54 |
| yoleaux | The Colonization of Space | 07:54 |
| kanzure | .title http://space.mike-combs.com/gallery.htm | 07:55 |
| yoleaux | The Space Settlement Art Gallery | 07:55 |
| kanzure | .title http://strout.net/info/science/settlements/ | 07:55 |
| yoleaux | Space Settlement Renderings | 07:55 |
| archels | so, hum | 07:58 |
| archels | when you're spinning that torus around, doesn't the stuff on the inner wall get flung towards the outside wall? | 07:59 |
| kanzure | you have clearly never lived in space | 07:59 |
| kragen | clearly | 08:01 |
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| kanzure | http://blog.coinkite.com/post/102291566521/bitcoin-multisig | 08:18 |
| kanzure | what's the point of this? wouldn't they intercept the hashes too? https://coinkite.com/offline/ | 08:20 |
| andytoshi | blocked by cloudflare | 08:20 |
| kanzure | 2hacker4u | 08:24 |
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| andytoshi | generally the coinkite stuff is a bit silly, it's just an online multisig wallet | 08:32 |
| kanzure | sure | 08:33 |
| andytoshi | which by itself is not so silly, there isn't good software out there for connecting regular users so they can multisign | 08:34 |
| andytoshi | but (a) their marketing has a few funny statements that suggest they don't fully understand what they're doing, (b) i'm not clear how they hope to make money on this | 08:34 |
| andytoshi | i guess, bc.i has even less technical content and they have investment.. | 08:34 |
| kanzure | heh | 08:38 |
| kanzure | that's not how investment works, of course | 08:38 |
| andytoshi | sure | 08:38 |
| andytoshi | but if you gave me 48 hours i could build this entire service by myself with personal cash. so it does seem there is a low barrier to competition :) | 08:39 |
| kanzure | that's the spirit | 08:41 |
| andytoshi | actually it is an interesting cost-benefit question how much debt i should be willing to go into with the purpose of developing tech to fork myself | 08:44 |
| andytoshi | is it unbounded? i guess there are diminishing returns once there are too many andytoshis | 08:45 |
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| kanzure | andytoshi: i don't think you can go into enough debt to do that anyway? | 08:47 |
| andytoshi | that's correct, and it's totally worthless if i'm not in enough debt | 08:48 |
| kanzure | how is it worthless in that situation? | 08:49 |
| andytoshi | but as a thought experiment suppose i could obtain arbitrarily large amounts of cash at say 5% | 08:49 |
| andytoshi | it's worthless because if i can't fork myself then i can't get the money back (by starting a company entirely staffed by andytoshis) | 08:49 |
| kanzure | no, i said you can't get enough debt | 08:49 |
| andytoshi | understood | 08:49 |
| kanzure | suppose you had emulations running around doing clever things, but not a significant amount of debt.. what's wrong with this scenario? | 08:50 |
| andytoshi | i don't think i can get the ems in the first place without a ton of debt | 08:50 |
| kanzure | there was a paper about the expected economic impact of emulations | 08:50 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/futurism/Economic%20implications%20of%20software%20minds.pdf | 08:50 |
| andytoshi | will read | 08:51 |
| kanzure | that is much shorter than i recalled | 08:53 |
| kanzure | http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=17337471284545041646&as_sdt=5,44&sciodt=0,44&hl=en | 08:53 |
| kanzure | for some reason i thought it also included economic models for investment into software minds | 08:54 |
| kanzure | and then points out where those investments begin to make sense even for unlikely payouts etc | 08:54 |
| kanzure | based on economic conditions | 08:54 |
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| kanzure | hmm, i suppose your question might actually be a little different really | 09:01 |
| kanzure | you're not asking about accelerating returns from andytoshis that are modifying their ability to produce good andytoshis | 09:01 |
| kanzure | because presumably the money just bought them directly, and not the production process there | 09:02 |
| kanzure | s/money/debt | 09:02 |
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| andytoshi | i'm thinking, the money buys the production process, but there are no improvements | 09:31 |
| andytoshi | they are straight bindly-created copies | 09:31 |
| andytoshi | :P and they are doing traditional work ... to repay for the process | 09:31 |
| kanzure | that sounds morbid :/ | 09:36 |
| kanzure | anyway i think it's fair to speculate that each one would be capable of repaying its unit costs | 09:37 |
| andytoshi | yeah, definitely each could pay for uit costs | 09:38 |
| andytoshi | lol "sounds morbid" sounds exactly like life today | 09:38 |
| kanzure | at least we are vaguely optimistic that there are improvements to be had | 09:38 |
| kanzure | it's like saying "okay here's some software, but it can never be modified, and any bugs you find you're stuck with" | 09:39 |
| andytoshi | well, just having the ems around would be a big improvement because they could go learn and study then explain things very efficiently to each other | 09:39 |
| andytoshi | that situation is how we are right now, i don't think ems are a productive direction for improving it | 09:39 |
| andytoshi | tho i am very optimistic about "constructive" ai research | 09:39 |
| kanzure | suppose you had a fairly accurate whole brain emulation that worked and did something approximating a human brain | 09:40 |
| kanzure | i would think that deleting certain portions of that emulation would have no impact or very little impact | 09:40 |
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| kanzure | and suddenly not emulating a chunk of 400 million neurons frees up capacity for other.. stuff.. | 09:40 |
| andytoshi | hmm, this is true | 09:40 |
| andytoshi | so i think you could get resource optimizations | 09:41 |
| andytoshi | but i don't think you could get a ton of mileage out of that because minds go crazy if you do that to them | 09:41 |
| andytoshi | eg imagine perceiving the world at even 1/2 its current speed, you'd adapt but it'd be frustrating and you wouldn't be able to identify with other humans properly | 09:41 |
| kanzure | .wik anatoli bugorski | 09:41 |
| yoleaux | "Anatoli Petrovich Bugorski (Russian: Анатолий Петрович Бугорский; born 1942) is a Russian scientist who was struck by a particle accelerator beam in 1978." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoli_Bugorski | 09:41 |
| andytoshi | at 1/10 i think i'd be hopeless | 09:41 |
| kanzure | oh i wouldn't assume uniformity like that | 09:43 |
| kanzure | memory lookups can be fast, but maybe everything else is adapted to normal time | 09:43 |
| andytoshi | hmm, that'd be very useful and (i'd guess) mostly harmless | 09:43 |
| andytoshi | for example i suspect you and i can do lookups much faster than typical people | 09:44 |
| andytoshi | and it just feels like "ideas come easily" | 09:44 |
| kanzure | arguably even a very slow emulation would still be useful too | 09:45 |
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| andytoshi | useful, but i think a slow em is a morbid idea | 09:54 |
| andytoshi | either it perceives too quickly and feels that there is never enough time | 09:55 |
| andytoshi | or it's just stupid | 09:55 |
| andytoshi | i think it'd be the worst thing to be stupid | 09:55 |
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| archels | "memory lookup" is a term that applies to Turing machines, not (human) brains | 09:59 |
| archels | .g Time, consciousness and mind uploading | 09:59 |
| yoleaux | http://faculty.cs.tamu.edu/choe/ftp/publications/choe-ijmc12-preprint.pdf | 09:59 |
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| kanzure | sensory/motor cortex can't be given arbitrary input in an emulation? | 10:15 |
| archels | well, define "arbitrary" | 10:16 |
| archels | sensory/motor already implies that there's a body and an environment there to sense | 10:18 |
| kanzure | it's a part of the brain | 10:30 |
| kanzure | bunch of neurons squished together that map (in a weird, distorted, but known way) to body parts (more specifically, nerve endings) | 10:31 |
| archels | well, that is a considerable oversimplification | 10:40 |
| archels | if we were only talking about the peripheral nerve endings, we could just give the upload a human-like avatar | 10:40 |
| kanzure | avatar for what? | 10:41 |
| kanzure | hey wait a second you're not andytoshi | 10:41 |
| archels | for communication; to interact with the world outside the emulation | 10:41 |
| archels | ... | 10:42 |
| kanzure | it seems you were not andytoshi a while ago | 10:42 |
| kanzure | interesting | 10:42 |
| kanzure | yeah i wouldn't have said that bullshit to you about the sensorimotor cortex had i known it was you | 10:42 |
| archels | hehe | 10:43 |
| kanzure | but yeah, i do assume i can inject signals or trigger neurons to fire | 10:43 |
| archels | it's an interesting discussion, nonetheless | 10:43 |
| kanzure | and violate things like conservation of mass and energy as much as i please | 10:43 |
| archels | yeah, in a virtual reality, you can implement any type of dynamical model you want | 10:45 |
| archels | I wonder how far we can push that, though | 10:45 |
| archels | I suspect the human brain wouldn't fare too well in four-dimensional space, for example | 10:45 |
| kanzure | i also imagine it's similar to deep brain stimulation right now | 10:45 |
| kanzure | "stick an electrode in there and fire" | 10:45 |
| kanzure | seems to work | 10:45 |
| kanzure | oh which reminds me, i've been meaning to convince some neuroscience people to answer me a question, | 10:46 |
| kanzure | something on the order of, "if you had complete and total access to the brain, where would you stimulate and how much and in what patterns/dosages, and why those locations?" | 10:47 |
| archels | just stimulate? like crude-DBS-type stimulate? | 10:47 |
| kanzure | oh, whatever, nothing so strict | 10:48 |
| archels | well, as opposed to a BCI that you are using for communication, I mean | 10:48 |
| kanzure | the constraints are things like "must be something that can be done to an emulated bundle of neurons" and "ideally would be testable on mushy brains too, but no big deal if it's too impossibly hard to do that" | 10:48 |
| archels | more in the sense of fine tuning your dopamine and serotonin levels | 10:49 |
| kanzure | oh, hmm | 10:49 |
| kanzure | yeah i would accept those types of answers too, but not if they are just "dopamine good! serotonin bad!" | 10:49 |
| archels | in that sense, the main attraction for me would be to have continuous control over those types of parameters | 10:51 |
| kanzure | the emulation having continuous control? | 10:51 |
| archels | when I step into a car, I don't want to have hyperfocus, I want to be a little ADD to drive the safest | 10:51 |
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| archels | but when I'm coding I would probably prefer the former | 10:51 |
| kanzure | those are a lot of variables to fiddle with in real-time | 10:52 |
| superkuh | I'd want to simulate measurements of pH in the volume immediately around the neurons/glia to see how it changes at fine scales with action potentials. | 10:52 |
| archels | not so much, probably | 10:53 |
| archels | FORALL dopamine-D2 receptor IN striatum DO: | 10:54 |
| superkuh | I think there'd be much to learn at small spatial and time scales. | 10:54 |
| superkuh | Especially with respect to the physical phase of the bilayer lipid membrane. | 10:54 |
| superkuh | +s | 10:54 |
| archels | much agreed | 10:54 |
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| archels | kanzure: what sort of responses have you gotten so far? | 11:00 |
| archels | if I understood the question better I could probably give a more meaningful answer | 11:00 |
| kanzure | i haven't been harassing anyone about it quite yet | 11:00 |
| kanzure | but the reason is because brain stimulation technology | 11:01 |
| kanzure | and even if you had transcranial ultrasound or whatever, you have to know things to try | 11:01 |
| kanzure | and i have this suspicion that others have put lots of thought into this already | 11:01 |
| kanzure | i just haven't found it yet | 11:01 |
| kanzure | anywho it turns out that the same question is still valid even in brain emulation scenarios, although the available toolset is way larger of course | 11:02 |
| archels | mapping the thalamic nuclei should be interesting | 11:07 |
| archels | instant control over aggression, sex drive, etc. | 11:07 |
| archels | amygdalar subnuclei might prove interesting in that respect as well | 11:08 |
| archels | err, did I say thalamic? I meant hypothalamic | 11:09 |
| kanzure | hm | 11:20 |
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| fenn | du -hs space.mike-combs.com/ | 12:12 |
| fenn | 5.1M | 12:12 |
| kanzure | i don't know if any of that is unique content | 12:12 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: your intuitions about sybil things looked fairly okay, and should be written down more tersely somewhere, and not in an irc log. | 12:19 |
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| fenn | nothing spells productivity like your computer turning off suddenly for no reason | 12:23 |
| fenn | time to empty: 9.3 hours | 12:24 |
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| fenn | "okay here's some software, but it can never be modified, and any bugs you find you're stuck with" sounds like my life | 13:02 |
| fenn | archels: you might enjoy playing around with "Curved Spaces" the non-cartesian manifold virtual environment simulator http://geometrygames.org/CurvedSpaces/index.html.en | 13:06 |
| fenn | unfortunately it doesn't simulate physics | 13:10 |
| fenn | anyway, some of the simpler spaces are about as disorienting as being in a small rotating cylinder and experiencing coriolis forces | 13:12 |
| kanzure | "The OpenWorm project (which kind of sounds like somewhat like a band of mischievous 10-year-olds with a pocketknife would call themselves, but OK)" | 13:21 |
| kanzure | ( http://gizmodo.com/this-robot-thinks-its-a-tiny-little-worm-1660061236 ) | 13:21 |
| kanzure | ? ""My research takes the way the worm's brain is wired and extends it to a robot for sensory input and motor output," Buspice told me. "What we found is that rather than just random, crazy movements by the robot, it actually responded to it's environment in the same manner as the biological worm."" | 13:22 |
| archels | fenn: can't seem to get it to work right now in VM, will try on a Windows machine tomorrow | 13:29 |
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| sheena2 | paperbot http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168159114000264 | 13:39 |
| sheena2 | hm | 13:39 |
| sheena2 | .paperbot http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168159114000264 | 13:40 |
| kanzure | give him time | 13:40 |
| kanzure | he is thinking | 13:40 |
| sheena2 | oh | 13:40 |
| sheena2 | i did it right? | 13:40 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Should%20old%20dog%20trainers%20learn%20new%20tricks%3F%20The%20efficiency%20of%20the%20Do%20as%20I%20do%20method%20and%20shaping_clicker%20training%20method%20to%20train%20dogs%0A%20.pdf | 13:40 |
| kanzure | no access | 13:40 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168159114000264/pdfft?md5=22dde506ceb5ec79bd2555ef9ab95e44&pid=1-s2.0-S0168159114000264-main.pdf | 13:41 |
| sheena2 | seems not workie | 13:41 |
| kanzure | definitely no access | 13:41 |
| sheena2 | http://www.apprendimentosociale.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Diapositiva1.jpg | 13:43 |
| sheena2 | summary | 13:43 |
| sheena2 | amaizng stuff | 13:43 |
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| sheena2 | http://familydogproject.elte.hu/Pdf/publikaciok/2014/FugazzaM2014b.pdf in case esomeone else wants it? | 13:51 |
| fenn | ara | 14:05 |
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| fenn | archels 3.2.1 works pretty well in wine; i don't remember if i ever got it to compile http://geometrygames.org/Archive/CurvedSpaces-3-2-1-Win-GL1.zip | 14:14 |
| fenn | sheena does "dog do as monkey do" actually work in practice? | 14:16 |
| sheena2 | i have an andoid phone that crashes all the time and i hav eno idea why. anyone have thinks on this? | 14:16 |
| sheena2 | the data of that study says yes!! | 14:16 |
| fenn | shitty software; install cyanogenmod if you can | 14:16 |
| chris_99 | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457506001540 | 14:17 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Drivers%20overtaking%20bicyclists%3A%20Objective%20data%20on%20the%20effects%20of%20riding%20position%2C%20helmet%20use%2C%20vehicle%20type%20and%20apparent%20gender%0A%20.pdf | 14:17 |
| fenn | these links all look wrong | 14:17 |
| chris_99 | muchos gracias | 14:17 |
| sheena2 | i have cyanogenmod installed | 14:18 |
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| chris_99 | hmm that link didn't seem to work, unless i've done something wrong | 14:19 |
| fenn | when it starts with %0A it's an html file | 14:19 |
| chris_99 | ah yeah it is | 14:19 |
| fenn | sheena why did it take so long to discover this training method? | 14:20 |
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| sheena2 | its complicated | 14:23 |
| sheena2 | dog people are idiots | 14:23 |
| sheena2 | there hasnt bene funding in it | 14:23 |
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| fenn | but there are lots of military animals, you'd think someone would be doing research on animal training | 14:24 |
| sheena2 | i know, right | 14:25 |
| sheena2 | its a weird thing | 14:25 |
| sheena2 | there was some back in the 60s? | 14:25 |
| sheena2 | mostly clasified and lost in a fire | 14:25 |
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| fenn | aliens | 14:25 |
| fenn | didn't want us to discover the secret of dolphins | 14:25 |
| sheena2 | indeed | 14:25 |
| sheena2 | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/289035/receiving-data-over-a-python-socket anyone have an already-written thing that would do "If data doesnt come through, display error message but keep listening for the next one" ? | 14:26 |
| kanzure | you're looking for something called a timeout | 14:26 |
| sheena2 | ... i dunno | 14:26 |
| sheena2 | cause i dont want it to go away? | 14:26 |
| fenn | usually number and length of timeouts is configurable | 14:27 |
| kanzure | fenn: start reading around 1943 i guess http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/orca-2014/bailey/ | 14:27 |
| fenn | ok but pigeons are not dogs | 14:28 |
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| kanzure | i meant the dolphin secrets and stuff | 14:28 |
| fenn | who really thinks pigeons and dogs should be trained the same way? | 14:28 |
| kanzure | and classified military stuff | 14:29 |
| chris_99 | didn't they train dolphins which promptly swap away | 14:29 |
| chris_99 | *swam | 14:29 |
| fenn | often adolescent male dolphins would go carousing and slack off, yeah | 14:29 |
| fenn | but wouldn't you? | 14:29 |
| sheena2 | bob had pretty good luck with his dolphn trainings | 14:30 |
| chris_99 | who was that dude that thought he could talk to dolphins who took far too much lsd | 14:30 |
| chris_99 | oh john c. lilly | 14:30 |
| kanzure | that might have been the goatse tribute page | 14:30 |
| fenn | well he probably _could_ talk to dolphins | 14:31 |
| kanzure | yes but a one word vocab is boring | 14:31 |
| fenn | moar fish *chirp chirp click clask* | 14:32 |
| kanzure | ah yes, the pidgeotto of the sea | 14:33 |
| fenn | that's racist! | 14:33 |
| fenn | (i have no idea what you're talking about, but it must be racist because dolphins) | 14:33 |
| kanzure | https://38.media.tumblr.com/8843756eb33c7cd90abab5a6232e9eff/tumblr_nel6i309TR1sz6rl2o1_500.jpg | 14:34 |
| fenn | "Pidgeotto is a raptor-like avian Pokémon." okay | 14:34 |
| kanzure | .gi ancalagon minor | 14:35 |
| kanzure | hmph | 14:36 |
| fenn | .g i ancalagon minor | 14:36 |
| yoleaux | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancalagon_(genus) | 14:36 |
| kanzure | no i wanted gi | 14:36 |
| fenn | The generic name is a homage to the dragon Ancalagon, who is featured in J.R.R. Tolkien's Middle-earth legendarium, in reference to the worm's prominent rows of hooks on its proboscis. The species was previously referred to as a member of the genus Ottoia, | 14:37 |
| kanzure | h right they can just label an actual image http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/Corynosoma_drawing.jpg | 14:37 |
| kanzure | *oh right | 14:37 |
| fenn | there was some ridiculous movie in the 1990s about a cruise ship that is hijacked by pirates, but then they all get eaten by giant ottoia | 14:37 |
| sheena2 | i have no idea whats going on anymore | 14:37 |
| kanzure | worms | 14:37 |
| kanzure | well, first ebola | 14:38 |
| kanzure | and before that, pokemon | 14:38 |
| sheena2 | so i set a timeout | 14:38 |
| sheena2 | and it is not owrking as expected | 14:38 |
| sheena2 | i mean | 14:39 |
| sheena2 | at all, i guess? | 14:39 |
| sheena2 | so wahtever triggers timeout isnt happening | 14:39 |
| sheena2 | i guess? | 14:39 |
| kanzure | i suggest using gevent + socket stuff (gevent has a socket submodule) | 14:39 |
| kanzure | and then you can use gevent.sleep(n) before printing a warning and stuff | 14:39 |
| kanzure | here is a very elaborate example of me using gevent + sockets in python, https://gist.github.com/kanzure/ee33ad55a98ad45283d3 | 14:39 |
| sheena2 | i susepct that's more than i need | 14:40 |
| sheena2 | i will go back to the google if no one has a prepared idea | 14:40 |
| kanzure | take a look at https://gist.github.com/kanzure/ee33ad55a98ad45283d3#file-stratumproxy-py-L445 | 14:41 |
| kanzure | newsock = gevent.socket.socket() | 14:41 |
| kanzure | newsock.bind(("0.0.0.0", 0)); newsock.listen(0); | 14:41 |
| kanzure | followed by: newserver = gevent.server.StreamServer(newsock, functools.partial(self.server.handle_other_connection, data)) | 14:41 |
| kanzure | and finally: newserver.start() | 14:41 |
| kanzure | anyway, "self.server.handle_other_connection," is the part where you do your while loop waiting for stuff (but you must use gevent.sleep and not the normal sleep) | 14:41 |
| sheena2 | s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM) | 14:42 |
| sheena2 | do i use 's' | 14:42 |
| sheena2 | somewhere? | 14:42 |
| sheena2 | or just socket? | 14:42 |
| sheena2 | i dont really know what "s = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_DGRAM)" has done to the socket commnads | 14:42 |
| kanzure | if you were to switch to using gevent then you would use "gevent.socket.socket" instead of "socket.socket" | 14:43 |
| kanzure | .py import socket; print socket.socket.__doc__ | 14:43 |
| yoleaux | socket([family[, type[, proto]]]) -> socket object | 14:43 |
| fenn | well that's enlightening~ | 14:43 |
| kanzure | it clearly says socket object, what more do you want.. | 14:44 |
| fenn | you mean socket.socket() is a socket object? wow | 14:44 |
| kanzure | no, the function's docstring says it returns a socket object | 14:44 |
| * fenn goes back to dolphins | 14:45 | |
| sheena2 | :( i have no idea | 14:46 |
| kanzure | what is your question? | 14:46 |
| kanzure | i don't know what sort of concurrency you've chosen to use in your program, | 14:48 |
| kanzure | but i've proposed using gevent and StreamServer which will let you do things like timeouts and other tasks | 14:48 |
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| sheena2 | ok | 14:50 |
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| chris_99 | fenn - they made a telephone for the dolphins to talk to each other in different tanks http://67.55.50.201/lilly/dolphinMind03.html | 14:52 |
| fenn | i like the idea of a dolphin virtual reality where it simulates sonar reflections etc | 14:55 |
| fenn | also they could remotely operate deep sea robots | 14:55 |
| chris_99 | the dolpins? | 14:56 |
| fenn | yeah | 14:56 |
| fenn | there are a lot of locations where the water is super cloudy and humans have a hard time understanding what's going on | 14:56 |
| fenn | that's probably the humans' fault for writing bad software tho | 14:57 |
| fenn | today i saw an ad in defense news touting some military contractor's "situational awareness" leadership; the example was a monitor in a helicopter cockpit with a map of the world | 14:58 |
| fenn | like, what situation exactly needs a map of the entire world? | 14:59 |
| chris_99 | heh | 14:59 |
| fenn | and the guy was poking at it with a pen-shaped stylus | 14:59 |
| kanzure | i'm sure the hardware developers konw the precise "situational awareness" map to include, no way they need to support any possible location | 15:01 |
| fenn | if i was driving around in a warzone, i'd want a 360 degree heads-up display with unit locations superimposed on sensor readings of my current environment | 15:02 |
| fenn | a monitor with maps on it just seems wrong | 15:03 |
| fenn | "hold on, what grid are we in? *traces finger along x axis, then y axis* ok here weare *blam you are dead* | 15:04 |
| chris_99 | or just send a drone into a warzone, then use a VR helmet | 15:04 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adfm.201400596/abstract;jsessionid=7F3067CC665BE0E2E49CFFD6E4F4CAEB.f03t03 | 15:09 |
| kanzure | .title | 15:09 |
| yoleaux | Superparamagnetic Twist-Type Actuators with Shape-Independent Magnetic Properties and Surface Functionalization for Advanced Biomedical Applications - Peters - 2014 - Advanced Functional Materials - Wiley Online Library | 15:09 |
| fenn | can they square dance | 15:11 |
| chris_99 | anyone heard of a magnetic flow meter per chance, i'm wondering about DIYing one, as they seem ridiculously expensive | 15:12 |
| fenn | nope, how does it work? | 15:12 |
| fenn | is it just like a clamp multimeter? | 15:13 |
| chris_99 | it requires a liquid that has ions in, and the ions affect the magnetic field you apply to the pipe, and you detect a potential difference, which relates to the flow | 15:13 |
| fenn | seems like the difficulty would be isolating galvanic voltages from flow-induced voltages | 15:14 |
| chris_99 | ? don't get you, you have a sensor that picks up the magnetic field | 15:14 |
| fenn | "To mitigate this, the magnetic field is constantly reversed, cancelling out the static potential difference." | 15:14 |
| fenn | the sensor picks up the voltage induced by the flow of the ions | 15:15 |
| chris_99 | oh yeah i saw that | 15:15 |
| chris_99 | but i don't get it | 15:15 |
| chris_99 | as the electrode isn't actually touching the ions? | 15:15 |
| chris_99 | *sensor | 15:15 |
| chris_99 | (i'm thinking of a plastic pipe) | 15:16 |
| fenn | it seems that your electrodes have to actually touch the fluid | 15:20 |
| chris_99 | are you sure about that? | 15:20 |
| fenn | no | 15:20 |
| delinquentme | https://www.electroimpact.com/Products/Fastening/XAC/ARJ21.aspx | 15:20 |
| delinquentme | FYI my birthday is nov 25 | 15:21 |
| delinquentme | im gonna be 30 | 15:21 |
| chris_99 | "A typical magnetic flowmeter places electric coils around (inline model) / near (insertion model) the pipe of the flow to be measured and sets up a pair of electrodes across the pipe wall (inline model) or at the tip of the flowmeter (insertion model)." | 15:21 |
| delinquentme | I'm down for someone buying me a big toy kanzure nmz787 ParahSailin_ fenn chris_99 | 15:21 |
| fenn | sure delinquentme i'll throw in a gundam while i'm at it | 15:21 |
| fenn | let me ring up my buddies at L5 | 15:22 |
| delinquentme | fenn, @_@ BEST. DAY. EVER. | 15:22 |
| sheena2 | https://plus.google.com/photos/104083481059977229611/albums/6083181718122306273 four bucks a shirt | 15:22 |
| fenn | chris_99: "inline" and "insertion" would be two completely different physical mechanisms | 15:23 |
| chris_99 | indeed | 15:23 |
| fenn | one is induction, the other is ... lorentz force? | 15:23 |
| fenn | or whatever the inverse of lorentz force is | 15:24 |
| chris_99 | i was thinking of using a hall effect sensor | 15:24 |
| fenn | i don't think it would be sensitive enough, unless you had really high flow rates | 15:25 |
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| fenn | how many ions are in a gallon of tap water | 15:25 |
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| chris_99 | it sounds like the electrodes don't touch | 15:26 |
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| chris_99 | the liquid | 15:26 |
| chris_99 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f949gpKdCI4 | 15:26 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: happy bday. i'm 25 on jan4. | 15:27 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, idk maybe we should all get drunk and google hangout | 15:28 |
| delinquentme | i could do that hahah | 15:28 |
| delinquentme | jumping screaming and nerding out | 15:28 |
| delinquentme | I mean its basically what I do at all times ... but with more booze | 15:29 |
| delinquentme | fenn, so not to nitpick but I'd really prefer eva unit 01 | 15:29 |
| delinquentme | if its not too much trouble | 15:29 |
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| fenn | chris_99: if the electrodes don't touch then you should be able to just hold two multimeter probes on either side of a hose with some magnets stuck to it | 15:33 |
| fenn | it seems to me they would need to touch the liquid unless you have a super duper thin wall tube and/or a very high impedance amplifier | 15:34 |
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| fenn | the plastic sleeve is to keep from shorting out the potential formed by the ions flowing through the magnet | 15:36 |
| fenn | it's not to protect the electrodes from the liquid | 15:37 |
| chris_99 | actually re-listening to the vid, i think it's just to protect the electrode short circuiting to the metal pipe | 15:37 |
| fenn | if you had a plastic pipe you wouldn't need a sleeve | 15:37 |
| chris_99 | so maybe it doe need to touch the liquid, i dunno | 15:37 |
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| fenn | if it were just to insulate the electrode from the pipe, they'd just put a collar around the electrode | 15:38 |
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| fenn | do you understand the concept of amplifier impedance? | 15:38 |
| fenn | like a microphone input has a higher impedance than a line-in | 15:39 |
| chris_99 | yeah | 15:40 |
| fenn | so consider the liquid the signal source you're measuring, a voltage (alternating apparently) and in series with it is the resistance of a plastic pipe | 15:41 |
| fenn | the pipe is some number of megaohms | 15:41 |
| fenn | with a sufficiently high impedance amp input, you can get a signal out of it, but you'd have better noise rejection without a huge resistor in the way | 15:42 |
| fenn | did that make sense? | 15:43 |
| chris_99 | yeah, the plastic would affect the magnetic field strength picked up at the electrodes | 15:45 |
| fenn | the electrodes are measuring voltage, not magnetic field strength | 15:45 |
| chris_99 | ok yeah, induced voltage | 15:47 |
| fenn | you could get a better result with larger electrodes, for more capacitive coupling | 15:47 |
| fenn | like aluminum foil tape stuck to the sides of the pipe | 15:47 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: these may help you if you need it, with amplifier and impedance stuff http://www.eevblog.com/files/uCurrentArticle.pdf (the next is a 3-part series) http://www.edn.com/design/analog/4368681/Design-femtoampere-circuits-with-low-leakage-part-one | 15:50 |
| chris_99 | ah cheers | 15:50 |
| nmz787_i | the series told me things like how a plastic package can actually be less noisy than a ceramic one | 15:50 |
| nmz787_i | because ceramic is piezoelectric | 15:50 |
| chris_99 | ah interesting | 15:50 |
| nmz787_i | I have referred to the first part of this sentence several times since I found and initially read that article: | 15:51 |
| nmz787_i | "To put things into perspective, 1A equals 6,241,500,000,000,000,000, or 6.2418 electrons/sec; 1 pA, or 1-12A, equals 6.24 million electrons/sec; and 1 fA equals 1-15A, or 6240 electrons/sec. In the subpicoamp world, there are three common enemies: current leakages, noise sources, and stray capacitance." | 15:51 |
| nmz787_i | also there is some way to relate that to a mole (the unit) | 15:52 |
| chris_99 | heh interesting | 15:52 |
| chris_99 | didn't know that you could do that | 15:52 |
| nmz787_i | " One faraday of charge is the magnitude of the charge of one mole of electrons, i.e. 96485.3365(21) C" | 15:52 |
| fenn | .wa coulomb in moles | 15:52 |
| yoleaux | convert 1 C (coulomb) to moles: C (coulombs) and mol (moles) are not compatible.; Unit information: unit: dimensions: common physical quantity C (coulombs): [current] [time]: electric charge mol (moles): [amount]: amount | 15:52 |
| fenn | pff | 15:53 |
| fenn | no botsnack for you | 15:53 |
| nmz787_i | knowing those things relate before taking chemistry would probably have been nice | 15:53 |
| fenn | surprise electricity is matter | 15:54 |
| nmz787_i | so basically if your signal is only 10 electrons, your amplifier better only need to suck of a few of those 10, else you'll have none left for the circuit's normal operation (at least in terms of probing signals during debug) | 15:55 |
| fenn | what really blew my mind was the mass detector; crossed laser interferometers to detect the gravitational distortion caused by everyday objects | 15:56 |
| nmz787_i | and the impedance is basically the resistance except in terms of AC... and V=IR, so knowing the voltage and the resistance let's you know how much electrons your probe is going to sip away | 15:56 |
| nmz787_i | .wik mass detector | 15:56 |
| yoleaux | "Mass spectrometry (MS) is an analytical chemistry technique that helps identify the amount and type of chemicals present in a sample by measuring the mass-to-charge ratio and abundance of gas-phase ions." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry | 15:57 |
| nmz787_i | :/ | 15:57 |
| nmz787_i | not lasers | 15:57 |
| fenn | bah i wonder if it's been classified | 15:58 |
| nmz787_i | .wik Gravitational-wave observatory | 15:58 |
| yoleaux | "A gravitational-wave observatory (or gravitational-wave detector) is any device designed to measure gravitational waves, tiny distortions of spacetime that were first predicted by Einstein in 1916. Gravitational waves are perturbations in the curvature of spacetime caused by accelerated masses." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational-wave_observatory | 15:58 |
| nmz787_i | maybe that? | 15:58 |
| chris_99 | hmm there is also this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorentz_force_velocimetry | 15:58 |
| nmz787_i | features "A schematic diagram of a laser interferometer." | 15:59 |
| chris_99 | on the topic of laser interferometers, have you heard of the holometer | 15:59 |
| fenn | it's related to the ligo observatory, but ligo is a) huge and b) not rotating | 15:59 |
| nmz787_i | ttyl | 15:59 |
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| chris_99 | hmm it looks like lorentz force velocimetry is the non-contact version, but that looks very difficult | 16:04 |
| fenn | Forward's extensive work in the field of gravitational radiation detection included the invention of the rotating cruciform gravity gradiometer or 'Forward Mass Detector', for Lunar Mascon (mass concentration) measurements. In the well-known textbook Gravitation Misner, Wheeler & Thorne point out that it can detect the curvature of spacetime produced by a fist. The principle behind it is quite | 16:04 |
| fenn | simple; getting the implementation right is tricky. Essentially, two beams are crossed over and connected with an axle through their crossing point. They are held at right angles to each other by springs. They have heavy masses at the ends of the beams, and the whole assembly spun around the common axle at high speed. The angle between the beams is measured continuously, and if it varies with a | 16:04 |
| fenn | period half that of the rotation period, it means that the detector is experiencing a measurable gravitational field gradient. | 16:05 |
| fenn | at hughes aircraft company forward had gained a lot of experience damping stray vibrations with piezoelectrics; presumably he applied this knowledge toward the frame of his mass detetor | 16:05 |
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| chris_99 | in case you haven't seen this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holometer | 16:07 |
| fenn | i don't understand this graph at all | 16:08 |
| fenn | "It would be the first proof that space-time, the fabric of the universe, is quantized." | 16:10 |
| kanzure | forward sure knew how to put his name on everything | 16:13 |
| chris_99 | heh | 16:14 |
| fenn | what, like his kid? | 16:14 |
| kanzure | he named his kid forward forward? | 16:15 |
| fenn | i dont see any other inventions with his name attached | 16:15 |
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| kanzure | wasn't there an entire forward drive and a forward fort or something | 16:15 |
| kanzure | "The Forward drive violates Newton's Third Law of Motion" | 16:16 |
| fenn | his son is Robert D. Forward | 16:16 |
| kanzure | well that's fucked up | 16:16 |
| fenn | oh he wrote a SF book with a silly physics device so he could do stuff with time travel | 16:16 |
| fenn | negative mass | 16:16 |
| kanzure | he goes by "bob forward" apparently and does not do speculative physics | 16:17 |
| fenn | yeah a writer for He-man and Beast Wars | 16:17 |
| kanzure | hmm he wrote for "x-men: evolution" too | 16:17 |
| kanzure | this almost makes up for the namespace corruption | 16:18 |
| kanzure | but it doesn't. | 16:18 |
| fenn | i bought copies of every one of his books to scan and ocr, but never got around to it | 16:20 |
| Qfwfq | Mozilla/EFF-propose standard procedure for domain verification and certificate issuance: https://github.com/letsencrypt/acme-spec/blob/master/draft-barnes-acme.md | 16:21 |
| fenn | wut. that's still an unresolved problem? | 16:23 |
| Qfwfq | Only in that there's no standardisation. | 16:24 |
| fenn | the whole idea of a certificate authority is pretty lame | 16:24 |
| fenn | why yes, government of Egypt, please, come into my browser and silently accept certificates from unknown corrupting influences | 16:25 |
| Qfwfq | The Web of Trust makes adoption socially awkward. | 16:28 |
| Qfwfq | Centralised PKI is better interface design if nothing else. | 16:30 |
| Qfwfq | Though it's refreshing to pare down /etc/ssl/certs every now and then. | 16:30 |
| fenn | until it fails silently and becomes insecure without the user's knowledge | 16:31 |
| fenn | trying to find the article about bad root certs shipped with firefox by default | 16:31 |
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| kanzure | who needs search results when you have revisionist history to rely on | 16:42 |
| fenn | who's revising history? | 16:44 |
| fenn | "As we learned from the SSL Observatory project, there are 600+ Certificate Authorities that your browser will trust; the attacker only needs to find one of those 600 that she is capable of breaking into. This has been happening with catastrophic results." | 16:48 |
| kanzure | the people making it harder for you to find articles | 16:49 |
| fenn | uh, paranoid duck is paranoid | 16:50 |
| fenn | the problem is there are so many SSL shitstorms that i can't find the particular one i was remembering | 16:51 |
| fenn | it was something about firefox trusting the CA's shipped with windows, which turned out to have lots of corrupt governments | 16:52 |
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| fenn | this iran-comodo thing is obscuring that story though | 16:53 |
| fenn | https://www.eff.org/files/countries-with-cas.txt | 16:53 |
| fenn | this is kinda in the same vein http://files.cloudprivacy.net/ssl-mitm.pdf | 16:57 |
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| kanzure | hmm | 17:39 |
| heath | what's up? | 17:46 |
| fenn | an argument i haven't heard before: "I work in an environment with very limited bandwidth (1.8Mbps private satellite link servicing ~80 people). SSL by default is the bane of my existence. Right now, I've got Cisco WAAS deployed, and it adds about another 30% of effective capacity to my link, and often more. If everything goes encrypted by default, then I lose all of that. I get no caching gain, | 17:48 |
| fenn | no compression gain, nothing, unless I MITM the link" | 17:48 |
| kanzure | he should probably mitm it remotely on something he controls | 17:52 |
| kanzure | since he's clearly okay with trusting his er, provider or whatever it is | 17:53 |
| fenn | you wouldn't be able to re-encrypt it locally since you don't have the private keys.. | 17:54 |
| kanzure | http://mitmproxy.org/ | 17:54 |
| fenn | actually i don't know what i am talking about, forget i said anything | 17:54 |
| kanzure | you should play with mitmproxy | 17:55 |
| fenn | do i have to | 17:55 |
| kanzure | well, it's exactly what it says it is, so you can just look at the screenshot and then nod gravely for a few moments | 17:55 |
| fenn | ah, so. | 17:56 |
| fenn | very interesting | 17:56 |
| kanzure | perfect | 17:56 |
| * fenn nods gravely | 17:56 | |
| kanzure | ( http://mitmproxy.org/images/mitmproxy.png ) | 17:56 |
| fenn | i could do without the unicode arrows | 17:57 |
| kanzure | libmproxy is the guiless version | 17:57 |
| kanzure | less might count as a gui so i don't mean less | 17:57 |
| fenn | which less | 17:57 |
| kanzure | /usr/bin/less | 17:58 |
| fenn | mitmproxy could be useful for testing things that interact with the net | 18:02 |
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| kanzure | i use it mostly for reverse engineering reasons | 18:07 |
| kanzure | but here are some other clever things: | 18:07 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/Runscope/requestbin | 18:07 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kennethreitz/httpbin | 18:07 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/sigmavirus24/betamax | 18:08 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/gabrielfalcao/HTTPretty | 18:08 |
| fenn | gah | 18:08 |
| fenn | EBUFSPACE | 18:08 |
| kanzure | yep my linkdumps are back in style | 18:09 |
| kanzure | paul fernhout ain't got shit on me now | 18:09 |
| fenn | these people suck at writing readmes | 18:10 |
| fenn | the point is "it tells you what you said"? | 18:11 |
| kanzure | your readme sucks because: | 18:12 |
| kanzure | [ ] it conflicts with my coloring scheme | 18:12 |
| fenn | [x] it doesn't tell me what the software is intended to do | 18:12 |
| kanzure | are you asking about the mocking libraries there? | 18:12 |
| kanzure | http requests aren't the only thing in your code | 18:12 |
| kanzure | often there are things that happen after the http responses | 18:13 |
| kanzure | so those things need to be tested in isolation of network status | 18:13 |
| kanzure | and remote server status | 18:13 |
| fenn | if i didn't know what postbin was, the descriptions would be worthless | 18:13 |
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| fenn | but they run on heroku | 18:14 |
| fenn | are you supposed to do your testing on heroku? | 18:14 |
| kanzure | nah | 18:14 |
| kanzure | kennethreitz runs a public httpbin instance on http://httpbin.org/ which runs on heroku, true | 18:14 |
| fenn | then what does "in isolation of network status" have to do with anything | 18:14 |
| kanzure | but you could just run it locally if you really cared that much | 18:14 |
| kanzure | httpbin/requestbin are both useful for things like "i wrote all this code and i think my http request might be wrong, so let me just change the destination to this random testing service i know about" | 18:15 |
| fenn | ok let's just limit discussion to httpbin for sake of clarity | 18:15 |
| kanzure | or, in the case of requestbin, "let me show my colleague these request-response pairs" (since httpbin doesn't have persistence or link sharing stuff) | 18:15 |
| kanzure | yeah i was talking about the other ones, not httpbin, in the case of the quote talking about network status | 18:16 |
| fenn | but you could run httpbin locally | 18:16 |
| kanzure | httpbin is useful for the scenario of "damn, i have no idea what my software is actually sending, but i am too lazy to break out wireshark or tcpdump, and those tools probably wont show me what an http server on the other end might see anyway" | 18:16 |
| kanzure | yeah | 18:17 |
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| kanzure | in some situations my http requests have been modified by some part of the software stack that i wasn't working with | 18:19 |
| kanzure | like switching around the order of headers | 18:19 |
| kanzure | (which play.google.com cares deeply about, for some reason) | 18:20 |
| fenn | google does lots of weird stuff with http | 18:20 |
| fenn | like SPDY for instance | 18:20 |
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| fenn | if you're faking a user agent, it might be expecting this "multiplexed" request | 18:22 |
| kanzure | i was comparing against mitmproxied requests/responses that i had seen from wiring up multiple different android phones and emulated android phones | 18:23 |
| kanzure | and decompiling from their dalvik bytecode to protobufs https://github.com/kanzure/googleplay-api/blob/master/googleplay.proto | 18:24 |
| fenn | is it just me or is that a primitive grammar specification | 18:26 |
| fenn | a very verbose EBNF | 18:27 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/google/protobuf | 18:27 |
| fenn | another readme that doesn't explain what the software does | 18:28 |
| fenn | just because it's targeted at a technical user doesn't mean you don't have to explain it | 18:29 |
| kanzure | submit a pull request and make thousands of google developers happy | 18:30 |
| fenn | i'll just copy and paste this https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/docs/overview | 18:30 |
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| fenn | "textual representation of a protocol buffer" looks suspiciously like YAML | 18:34 |
| kanzure | hrm. | 18:54 |
| kanzure | yaml is too verbose for google's purposes | 18:54 |
| kanzure | they needed a byte-level protocol | 18:54 |
| fenn | i know | 18:54 |
| fenn | yaml is a good human readable computer readable format | 18:54 |
| ebowden | Kanzure, I just read an article that used Infowars as a citation. | 18:54 |
| fenn | protobufs dont need to be human readable (and aren't) | 18:55 |
| fenn | however if you want to look at a protobuf, it would be convenient if it spat out pretty yaml | 18:55 |
| ebowden | It's basically like saying "Well, retards believe...." to back up your point. | 18:55 |
| kanzure | why are you telling me about infowars | 18:56 |
| fenn | ebowden: try rebutting with a citation from 4chan | 18:56 |
| ebowden | fenn, LOL | 18:56 |
| ebowden | Just venting my anger at a very, very stupid article. | 18:57 |
| fenn | was it http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/141111/ncomms6392/full/ncomms6392.html | 18:58 |
| kanzure | .title | 18:58 |
| yoleaux | Mind-controlled transgene expression by a wireless-powered optogenetic designer cell implant : Nature Communications : Nature Publishing Group | 18:58 |
| ebowden | Fenn, no. | 18:59 |
| ebowden | Also, I've not heard of anything published in Nature citing Infowars. | 18:59 |
| fenn | kanzure did you (or your lackey) manually label all the fields in this googleplay.proto file? | 19:01 |
| ebowden | Also, if you're feeling really masochistic try reading the comments. | 19:01 |
| fenn | i'm not a masochist | 19:02 |
| fenn | i'm whatever the opposite is | 19:02 |
| kanzure | no i did not manually label those | 19:02 |
| kanzure | there was this tool i found deep in the java world that decompiled dalvik bytecode and extracted protobufs | 19:02 |
| ebowden | Fenn, this was it: http://sputniknews.com/voiceofrussia/2014_02_04/Human-animal-hybrids-disasters-in-the-making-2059/ | 19:04 |
| fenn | is google still anti-documented-APIs? | 19:04 |
| kanzure | google has some automatic api documentation stuff happening now, maybe | 19:04 |
| fenn | forcing people to reverse engineer your protocol just seems stupid | 19:05 |
| kanzure | they didn't want people to steal their android apps | 19:05 |
| fenn | oh noes | 19:05 |
| kanzure | these were private systems | 19:05 |
| kanzure | "private" | 19:05 |
| kanzure | i mean, public private | 19:05 |
| kanzure | i mean, public but they call it private because they are clueless | 19:05 |
| fenn | maybe they should read about how DRM doesn't work | 19:05 |
| fenn | "Nowadays, it is possible for a couple of university-age students to concoct new life forms in the comfort of their own basement." horrors! | 19:06 |
| fenn | somebody get those kids a condom | 19:07 |
| fenn | why is this called "voice of russia"? i thought the russians were all about mad science | 19:08 |
| kanzure | er, condoms might be one of those things they don't think exist | 19:11 |
| fenn | is that unorthodox orthodoxy | 19:11 |
| kanzure | oh my bad, that's only cripples or something | 19:12 |
| kanzure | i'm so confused | 19:12 |
| kanzure | "is not a cripple, is great shame on society" | 19:12 |
| fenn | is this like free-books.dontexist | 19:13 |
| fenn | cripples.dontexist | 19:13 |
| kanzure | http://www.publichealthreviews.eu/upload/pdf_files/12/00_Petrea.pdf | 19:14 |
| fenn | no surprises there | 19:15 |
| fenn | "There are no invalids in the USSR!" because communism is jesus reincarnate | 19:17 |
| kanzure | soviet patent system is best patent system | 19:18 |
| fenn | internats: social asylums outside the jurisdiction of the health sector | 19:18 |
| fenn | PROOF that SOVIET RUSSIA INVENTED THE INTERNATS | 19:18 |
| fenn | take that al gore! | 19:19 |
| fenn | .title http://www.technologyreview.com/news/532126/software-designs-products-by-simulating-evolution/ | 19:27 |
| yoleaux | 3-D Design Software “Evolves” Hundreds of Options | MIT Technology Review | 19:27 |
| fenn | "Dreamcatcher interprets design intent from the objectives specified by the designer and uses the cloud to create thousands of valid design options that meet the designer’s criteria, recommending the best-performing versions for further consideration. It’s not so much about developing a solution as it is about searching for and finding one." | 19:29 |
| kanzure | "hundreds" | 19:30 |
| fenn | however many you want to pay for | 19:30 |
| fenn | this sounds a lot like what i was writing about in "how to build a cad system" 2007 ish | 19:31 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/cadwiki.mediawiki | 19:31 |
| fenn | says they've been working on it for 7 years... | 19:32 |
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| kanzure | hm. | 20:17 |
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| heath | two hms in 3 hours | 20:34 |
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| kanzure | confusion growing exponentially | 20:43 |
| jrayhawk | confusularity | 20:43 |
| kanzure | only made 72 commits today? | 20:43 |
| kanzure | something's wrong | 20:43 |
| kanzure | ERROR: LoadBlockIndex() : failed to initialize block database: boost::filesystem::space: No such file or directory | 20:44 |
| kanzure | : Error initializing block database. | 20:44 |
| kanzure | Do you want to rebuild the block database now? | 20:45 |
| kanzure | why is it asking me? | 20:45 |
| kanzure | : Error initializing block database. | 20:45 |
| jrayhawk | you deleted the bitcoin blockchain? what a jerk | 20:45 |
| jrayhawk | people were depending on that! | 20:45 |
| kanzure | nah, regtest mode | 20:46 |
| ebowden | http://biofrontiers.colorado.edu/news/new-technology-new-understanding-of-p53-the-tumor-suppressor-gene | 20:51 |
| kanzure | oh look more press releases | 20:52 |
| kanzure | :V | 20:52 |
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| kanzure | yo gene_hacker | 21:01 |
| gene_hacker | yo | 21:02 |
| kanzure | some space colonization site that will be going offline soon http://space.mike-combs.com/ | 21:02 |
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| delinquentme | google cloud is now behaving. | 22:50 |
| delinquentme | YES. | 22:50 |
| delinquentme | Exactly as expected. | 22:50 |
| delinquentme | FUCK YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE | 22:50 |
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| --- Log closed Wed Nov 19 00:00:55 2014 | ||
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