| --- Log opened Sat Nov 22 00:00:21 2014 | ||
| --- Day changed Sat Nov 22 2014 | ||
| nickjohnson | nmz787_i: the ad9850 is a much older chip, and I'm fairly certain the modules you see on what are clones. Its capabilities are broadly similar, though. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| yoleaux | 21 Nov 2014 22:29Z <nmz787_i> nickjohnson: do you know what the difference between say the DDS60 (or your project) and these ~$5 modules on ebay (search AD9850 ) | 00:00 |
| kragen | kanzure: I hate to joi in the three minute hate, but Ait does seem like he ought to have known that the men who went to the moon had what was effectively a programmed pocket calculator with real-time control | 00:51 |
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| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23806776 | 04:52 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1016%2Fj.brainres.2013.06.024 | 04:52 |
| kanzure | hmm. | 05:09 |
| ebowden | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10571-013-0012-y | 05:09 |
| kanzure | .title | 05:09 |
| yoleaux | Valproate Improves Memory Deficits in an Alzheimer’s disease Mouse Model: Investigation of Possible Mechanisms of Action - Springer | 05:09 |
| ebowden | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10571-013-0012-y | 05:15 |
| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22326482 | 05:18 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1016%2Fj.brainresbull.2012.01.011 | 05:18 |
| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24939432 | 05:31 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1007%2Fs10571-013-0012-y | 05:31 |
| ebowden | So many delicious papers! :D | 05:33 |
| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-pharmtox-011112-140216 | 05:56 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1146%2Fannurev-pharmtox-011112-140216 | 05:56 |
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| ebowden | paperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hipo.22286/abstract | 06:07 |
| ebowden | paperbot: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22583411 | 06:12 |
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| kanzure | kvm security stuff http://lwn.net/Articles/619332/ | 07:03 |
| kanzure | .title http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2014/Nov/51 | 07:03 |
| yoleaux | Full Disclosure: CVE-2014-7911: Android <5.0 Privilege Escalation using ObjectInputStream | 07:03 |
| kanzure | (not quite root though) | 07:04 |
| kanzure | "program synthesis in reverse engineering" http://www.nosuchcon.org/talks/2014/D1_01_Rolf_Rolles_Program_Synthesis_in_reverse_Engineering.pdf | 07:04 |
| kanzure | .title http://adsecurity.org/?p=525 | 07:05 |
| yoleaux | MS14-068: Vulnerability in (Active Directory) Kerberos Could Allow Elevation of Privilege » Active Directory Security | 07:05 |
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| fenn | 1% of "overhead" costs go to shared equipment: http://www.nature.com/news/indirect-costs-keeping-the-lights-on-1.16376 | 10:24 |
| fenn | 15% go to "administration" | 10:24 |
| kanzure | isn't it supposed to be >55% of all grant money goes to administration | 10:24 |
| kanzure | oh, this is other money | 10:24 |
| fenn | a rate of 100% means that half of the money awarded goes to the university and half to the researcher('s expenses) | 10:25 |
| fenn | er, yeah | 10:26 |
| fenn | it's not surprising that universities get less support from grants; they're being paid in other ways by the students and state | 10:27 |
| fenn | but still.. 1% goes to equipment? that's nuts | 10:28 |
| kanzure | i dunno how many of those labs are just renting equipment | 10:29 |
| kanzure | or uh, the other thing that isn't renting but not ownership | 10:29 |
| yashgaroth | borrowed or stolen | 10:32 |
| kanzure | when you're paying a mortgage | 10:32 |
| kanzure | i suppose that's renting but it's not called renting | 10:32 |
| kanzure | leasing. there we go. | 10:32 |
| yashgaroth | universities aren't usually splashing out on expensive new equipment every year, but 1% does seem low | 10:34 |
| kanzure | might be donations? | 10:34 |
| fenn | according to my informant at the NSF, most large pieces of shared equipment are paid for directly by grants, not as "overhead" | 10:34 |
| fenn | stand down, citizen cyber soldiers | 10:35 |
| kanzure | nsf/nih seems a lot like a central bank of science. | 10:35 |
| kanzure | is there a name for the concept of "central banks buying indiscriminately distorts the market against whatever reality actually is" | 10:36 |
| fenn | science has been undervalued for so long that it's impossible to get anyone to invest in it | 10:36 |
| fenn | basic research | 10:36 |
| kanzure | "market distortion" | 10:37 |
| kanzure | oh right, when prices break down, nobody can get anything done | 10:37 |
| fenn | bell labs was something of an outlier | 10:37 |
| fenn | nasa had the same effect on the private space industry by flying shuttle missions for dinky little satellites | 10:38 |
| kanzure | huh i can't find anyone talking about this effect (via grants) | 10:40 |
| fenn | because science isn't considered a market unless you're a raving lunatic anarcho-capitalist | 10:41 |
| kanzure | i know the conventional understanding is something like "derr, they are so incapable of making money that they have to be given money to make any of it happen" but surely there's a contrarian opinion somewhere | 10:41 |
| fenn | the idea is that being forced to make money affects decisions about what sort of research gets done | 10:42 |
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| kanzure | http://archive.mises.org/15259/the-myth-of-under-provision-of-science-by-the-free-market/ | 10:42 |
| fenn | he starts off talking about science like it's a commodity, "the maximum possible" what does that even mean | 10:43 |
| kanzure | MAXIMUM SCIENCE | 10:45 |
| kanzure | "in his paper Science, Technology and Government, Rothbard references a study by Jewkes et al that took 61 of the most important inventions of the first half of the twentieth century and found that over half of those were achieved by individual scientists at their own expense.[6]" | 10:47 |
| fenn | "the entrepreneur works as a coordinator, guiding resources in their correct uses and making decisions about how scientific research should be carried out" is exactly the situation they're trying to prevent with government-funded science | 10:47 |
| kanzure | arguably, basic research would occur if there was no market distortion making the prices of doing basic research so ridiculous | 10:48 |
| fenn | i agree | 10:48 |
| kanzure | given the potential gains of basic research, it would be foolish not to allocat eeven tiny fractions of percents of budgets to it, which is of course impossible because those fractions aren't enough given the high prices of literally everything related to doing anything useful | 10:48 |
| kanzure | although this is not solely the fault of grant-granting bodies | 10:49 |
| fenn | it would be foolish, but stupid capitalists still skimp on everything | 10:49 |
| fenn | "oh look we can save 3 cents by removing this fuse" building burns down | 10:49 |
| kanzure | oh, well that's argued usually by saying something like "smart capitalists outcompete stupid capitalists over time" | 10:49 |
| fenn | that doesn't seem to have happened | 10:50 |
| kanzure | because market distortion | 10:50 |
| kanzure | (probably) | 10:50 |
| fenn | i blame stupid consumers | 10:50 |
| kanzure | i wouldn't... | 10:51 |
| fenn | whose fault is it that everything is crap then? | 10:51 |
| kanzure | too broad | 10:52 |
| fenn | that products are made to an exceedingly low quality on average | 10:52 |
| kanzure | when you can't use prices to communicate that, what do you expect would happen | 10:53 |
| fenn | uh.. the cost difference between an "ok" fork and a "crap" fork is orders of magnitude less than the price difference | 10:53 |
| fenn | s/fork/product/ | 10:53 |
| fenn | ok whose fault is it that costs and prices aren't coupled | 10:54 |
| kanzure | hmm. | 10:54 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure if blame is supposed to work like this | 10:55 |
| fenn | i'd glady pay 3% extra for enough plastic in everything so they wouldn't break during normal usage | 10:55 |
| kanzure | but, i could probably spout out some nonsense about regulatory barriers to entry? | 10:55 |
| fenn | if you consider safeway a "regulator" | 10:56 |
| fenn | it's actually pretty hard to get a product on store shelves | 10:56 |
| fenn | damn near impossible for generic things | 10:57 |
| fenn | you're probably thinking "who buys from brick and mortar stores" | 10:59 |
| kanzure | no, i'm thinking "damn i'd hate to fork over 80% to walmart" | 11:00 |
| kanzure | http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Malinvestment | 11:01 |
| fenn | i'm optimistic about the "amazon basics" product line, but it's limited to a certain "young executive" market segment | 11:02 |
| fenn | hm executive is the wrong word | 11:03 |
| fenn | whoever needs paper shredders and bluetooth headsets | 11:03 |
| kanzure | "As Robert Murphy explains, free individuals often make mistakes — even systematic mistakes. But even perfectly rational entrepreneurs who know a boom is underway cannot prevent their more reckless competitors from taking cheap (or now free) government loans and bidding away scarce resources. Workers don't care whether their paychecks come from genuine saving or from the printing press, and every few years there is always a fresh crop of ... | 11:03 |
| kanzure | ... naïve employers willing to borrow money and start new projects." | 11:03 |
| kanzure | "Second, Austrians emphasize that interest rates communicate information to entrepreneurs. In some critiques it seems that "everybody knows" that the true interest rate ought to be 5 percent, and so the central bank's efforts to push it down to 3 percent should be easily corrected. Yet nobody knows what the truly free-market interest rate is. That's why market prices are important in the first place, and why government distortions of these ... | 11:03 |
| kanzure | ... prices lead to real imbalances in the economy.[34]" | 11:03 |
| kanzure | hmm "Entrepreneurs don't need to speculate about a change in consumers’ "rate of time preference", or about the "supply of capital goods". An individual entrepreneur is concerned only with a very small set of market prices, namely, the prices of the inputs she will need for her projects, and the prices for which these products will sell. That’s the whole point of relying on the market rates of interest and other prices — it eliminates ... | 11:03 |
| kanzure | ... the need for individuals to speculate about aggregates that are far too complex for any single mind to comprehend." | 11:03 |
| kanzure | "Also, some expositions of ABCT assume an initial free market state, and then analyze the impact of a one-shot intervention. But in reality the government of each major country intervene permanently in the credit market by the creation of a central bank (or a centralized system of banks). Actors in these economies have no idea what the free market rate of interest would be in the absence of such interference; even if the rates were raised, ... | 11:04 |
| kanzure | ... the new rate could still be below the "natural rate".[35] More generally, Reinhart and Rogoff speak about the "this time is different syndrome" while analyzing centuries of financial crises. Financial professionals and, all too often, government leaders explain that we are doing things better than before, we are smarter, and we have learned from past mistakes. Each time, society convinces itself that the current boom, unlike the many ... | 11:04 |
| kanzure | ... booms that preceded catastrophic collapses in the past, is built on solid fundamentals, structural reforms, technological innovation, and good policy.[36]" | 11:04 |
| fenn | spammer | 11:04 |
| kanzure | but it answers your question | 11:06 |
| kanzure | although i don't know if i agree completely that central banks are the culprit | 11:06 |
| kanzure | because regulations also exist and are not caused by central banks... which do create distortions on prices and costs... | 11:06 |
| fenn | i don't think central banks have anything to do with a) private investment in science, or b) crap chinese products with not enough plastic in them to not break | 11:06 |
| kanzure | well, i was earlier making an analogy based on grants | 11:07 |
| kanzure | private investment would probably happen if science and science-related results were cheaper | 11:07 |
| fenn | what countries don't have central banks? | 11:08 |
| fenn | or does that not matter because they can just borrow from a central bank anyway | 11:08 |
| kanzure | suppose that most interesting science-related results were known-possible, but they all had a very high cost, like $1B each. i would expect less investors to swing for those results. | 11:09 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_central_banks#Countries_without_central_banks | 11:10 |
| kanzure | monaco, kiribati, tuvalu, palau, marshall islands, federated states of micronesia | 11:10 |
| fenn | no, what makes science different is you don't know anything | 11:10 |
| fenn | heh those are all tax havens | 11:10 |
| fenn | and/or islands rapidly sinking under the seas | 11:11 |
| kanzure | so, a lot of basic research is not so basic | 11:11 |
| kanzure | for example, a lot of molecular biology is repetition | 11:11 |
| kanzure | and those repetitions have known input costs | 11:11 |
| kanzure | like reagents | 11:11 |
| kanzure | so you do know those costs... and not know nothing. | 11:12 |
| fenn | ok so the human genome project, what does it cost? | 11:12 |
| fenn | 1B? 1M? 1k? | 11:12 |
| nmz787 | that's over, so you can look it up | 11:12 |
| kanzure | venter raised at least $300M in venture capital for his side of it | 11:12 |
| nmz787 | wreckless!=reckless... true story | 11:12 |
| fenn | "the project ended up costing less than expected, about $2.7 billion in FY 1991" | 11:13 |
| kanzure | "In 1990, Congress established funding for the Human Genome Project and set a target completion date of 2005. Although estimates suggested that the project would cost a total of $3 billion over this period, the project ended up costing less than expected, about $2.7 billion in FY 1991 dollars." | 11:13 |
| kanzure | (and venter did it for way less, etc.) | 11:13 |
| kanzure | (well, i mean, the things he did ended up costing less. but probably because he was using ncbi data.) | 11:13 |
| kanzure | (and also not funding 1000 labs) | 11:13 |
| fenn | it cost less because he used a more efficient technology | 11:14 |
| fenn | he did shotgun sequencing instead of sequential reads | 11:14 |
| fenn | you probably don't even know what sequential reads are | 11:14 |
| fenn | because nobody uses them anymore | 11:14 |
| kanzure | sanger? | 11:15 |
| fenn | yeah | 11:15 |
| kanzure | er, that's like the one method i know cold | 11:15 |
| fenn | anyway i'm not sure HGP is really science | 11:15 |
| kanzure | it's one of the main reasons ParahSailin is so disappointed in me | 11:15 |
| kanzure | human genome project probably sounded a lot like "basic research" at the time | 11:17 |
| fenn | it was a "flagship project" | 11:18 |
| kanzure | oh so now if a basic research project is really huge it's no longer basic research? | 11:19 |
| kanzure | particle colliders? | 11:19 |
| fenn | yeah, pretty much | 11:19 |
| bbrittain | more like if you can sell it well, it's no longer basic research | 11:20 |
| fenn | i mean just to get everyone on board you have to practically know the answer | 11:20 |
| fenn | then proving it is just a formality | 11:20 |
| bbrittain | 'cause it's for the childern | 11:20 |
| fenn | the HGP actually collected a lot of useful data though | 11:20 |
| kanzure | regarding those countries, the lack of a central bank isn't enough, or something | 11:23 |
| kanzure | i was hesitant to say yes or no to your borrow question | 11:23 |
| fenn | they have basically no economy or resources | 11:23 |
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| kanzure | i mean if you are using currencies that are controlled by a central bank, shit happens | 11:23 |
| kanzure | this is partly why gold bugs are gold bugs, but you already know my concerns around paper gold | 11:24 |
| kanzure | i really can't think of "basic research" or "fundamental research" that really shouldn't be funded by private investment | 11:26 |
| bbrittain | no, neither can I | 11:27 |
| fenn | my concerns with that revolve around access to data and overly broad and restrictive patents | 11:28 |
| bbrittain | but I'm an anarchist, so ignore me | 11:28 |
| fenn | but we already have this problem with government-funded science :( | 11:28 |
| kanzure | "the natural failure rate of science investment was so high that nobody wants to touch it" is ridiculous because it's basically saying "investment is bad" | 11:29 |
| kanzure | also i don't remember if i captured the sentiment correctly but this guy was strongly in favor of demonstrating deliberate directed/coordinated science research: | 11:30 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/open-science-summit-2010/scott-johnson-myelin-repair-foundation/ | 11:30 |
| fenn | it's hard to fully exploit the value generated by science because people can't keep secrets | 11:30 |
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| fenn | demonstrating what? | 11:30 |
| kanzure | "The reason why we show these circles.. is that basic science is pretty random. There's no research plan. No disease organization actually has a research plan. They put out a request for proposals, they peer review those, and those that get the highest ratings, that's what gets funded. Most academics would say that it should be random, since you can't know where they are going. Well, in some cases you want to be outcome directed" | 11:31 |
| kanzure | it's not about secrecy -_- | 11:31 |
| fenn | that's the whole point of basic research, it isn't planned | 11:32 |
| fenn | if you knew what it was good for it wouldn't be beasic research | 11:32 |
| kanzure | that doesn't mean "do random shit" | 11:32 |
| fenn | yes it does | 11:32 |
| fenn | the problem is we aren't sufficiently random | 11:32 |
| * bbrittain 's world doesn't have patents | 11:33 | |
| bbrittain | I would actually argue that these are all social issues and not something that you can fix with legislation | 11:33 |
| bbrittain | and that as costs continue to fall in the sciences, hopefully we will see grass-roots movements that create a cultural shift | 11:33 |
| bbrittain | new blood and whatnot | 11:33 |
| kanzure | " Also, by being the first person to make the discovery he gets to be the first person to profit from this discovery as it takes time for someone who scooped the idea to get to a point where he can produce something useful from it. However, even if we excluded this first mover advantage and assumed that replication of this person’s discovery was instant upon publication, he still benefits from this system. This is because although he incurs ... | 11:33 |
| kanzure | ... the risk of having his research scooped by someone else, he is more likely to in turn scoop someone else’s research as this free distribution system of science gives the scientist access to a greater pool of knowledge resources." | 11:33 |
| fenn | bbrittain: as costs continue to fall? what??? | 11:34 |
| bbrittain | fenn: well, really depends on what branch of bio-science you are looking at | 11:34 |
| bbrittain | certainly not human trials and stuff | 11:35 |
| fenn | i guess you are talking about dremelfuges or microfluidics or something | 11:35 |
| bbrittain | yea, even sequencing and synthesis | 11:35 |
| bbrittain | those are approaching accesible | 11:36 |
| fenn | the cost of a certain capability is falling, but average cost per scientific breakthrough continues to be high | 11:38 |
| fenn | and some things are getting more expensive, like animal research | 11:38 |
| fenn | reagents seem ridiculously expensive to me, but maybe it was always that way | 11:39 |
| kanzure | i suspect that reagents used to be cheaper but that their prices have at minimum tracked inflation if not increased even faster | 11:40 |
| fenn | i think it's just the usual "somebody else's money" mindset | 11:40 |
| kanzure | "breakthrough" | 11:41 |
| fenn | aka real scientific contribution, not just data collection | 11:41 |
| kanzure | er.. | 11:41 |
| kanzure | you'll have to be more specific please | 11:41 |
| fenn | don't tell me you're one of those "everything's just a pile of data" pedants | 11:41 |
| kanzure | i think there are possible businesses even for particle accelerators and particle accelerator research | 11:42 |
| fenn | sure, but nobody would have thought of them without the particle accelerator research telling them it was possible | 11:42 |
| kanzure | but that those businesses are extremely hard to figure out as long as doing-anything costs remain high | 11:42 |
| kanzure | no i don't mean that | 11:42 |
| kanzure | i mean quite literally i think that businesses would operate particle accelerators on their own even without knowing "business use x of weird particle y" | 11:43 |
| fenn | nobody in the cancer treatment field would have said "gee what happens if i build a cyclotron and inject antimatter into peoples' brains" | 11:43 |
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| kanzure | i think they would have | 11:44 |
| fenn | bulshit | 11:44 |
| kanzure | "how do we kill cancer? well how do we kill anything at all? let's look at the list of things that kills cells and speculate about other ways of killing them" | 11:44 |
| fenn | where do particle accelerators come into that? | 11:45 |
| fenn | there are much easier ways to generate radioactive compounds | 11:45 |
| kanzure | well anyway, this fits the pattern of "business use x of weird particle y" which i already said no to | 11:46 |
| superkuh | Do you mean situations like electron beams for industrial food sterilization? | 11:47 |
| kanzure | well, that's still an output, although a cool one | 11:47 |
| fenn | also orders of magnitude too low energy | 11:47 |
| fenn | so who would build a particle accelerator and why? | 11:48 |
| fenn | how would they pay for it? | 11:49 |
| kanzure | i just mean that i believe that entrepreneurs, given cheap enough resources, would be interested in building particle accelerators | 11:50 |
| kanzure | the whole idea expressed earlier was that there are certain individuals who are better at speculating about the future and profit/loss, and some of those would be able to correctly account for the benefits of building things that might have no immediate application | 11:52 |
| kanzure | grants/governments are not the only entities capable of this mode of thought -_- | 11:52 |
| nmz787 | i thought this was spurred by the pocket calculator comment | 11:52 |
| kanzure | wasn't that yesterday | 11:52 |
| nmz787 | (and it would be pretty damn hard for unorganized people amidst chaotic 'normals' to get semiconductor tech back online before the 'normals' raided their lab for food or shelter) | 11:53 |
| kanzure | nonsense | 11:53 |
| kanzure | there's enough empty office space as is to house everyone | 11:54 |
| kanzure | more than enough empty office space | 11:54 |
| nmz787 | you sir, do not know enough normal people | 11:54 |
| nmz787 | go back to walmart some more | 11:54 |
| fenn | i mentioned some nature article about grant funding because of a comment about the UC berkeley tuition protests on another channel | 11:54 |
| kanzure | "In april 2011 costar estimated over 17 billion square feet of retail real estate and 84 billion square feet of total commercial real estate in the US" | 11:54 |
| kanzure | well okay, maybe not enough room for /everyone | 11:55 |
| kanzure | / | 11:55 |
| nmz787 | if anything the only chance would be under the protection of some warlord mafioso that comes to power after tons of successful raiding and pillaging | 11:55 |
| fenn | a 10ft x 10ft room for everyone! | 11:55 |
| kanzure | oh that was not global | 11:56 |
| kanzure | "14 sq ft per person? fuck that" but i see now | 11:56 |
| fenn | 60-280 sq.ft per person | 11:56 |
| nmz787 | unless we all take up arms now to keep this apocalypse from being able to happen | 11:56 |
| nmz787 | really get the NRA spirit cookin in here | 11:57 |
| kanzure | anyway, that's a lot of space | 11:57 |
| kanzure | and a bunch of people co-habitate already, anyway | 11:57 |
| nmz787 | 'come see my guns collection' 'pistols, rifles, NO2 nanopartcile sprayers' | 11:57 |
| fenn | hard to show off your retail space if it's being squatted by hippies | 11:57 |
| kanzure | hippies, or associates? | 11:58 |
| nmz787 | hmm, now I wonder what would the best existing gun design be to modify into a gene gun | 11:58 |
| * nmz787 looks for rudigers documents | 11:58 | |
| fenn | nmz you just dropped the signal to near zero | 11:59 |
| nmz787 | hmm? | 11:59 |
| fenn | why are we talking about hollywood doomsday survivalist scenarios? | 11:59 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: do we have a copy online somewhere? | 11:59 |
| nmz787 | some comment yesterday that he disagrees with | 11:59 |
| nmz787 | he thinks czochralski process would be a piece of cake or something | 12:00 |
| fenn | the apollo guidance system was a lot more than a pocket calculator | 12:00 |
| kanzure | "technology is hopeless don't try" | 12:00 |
| nmz787 | although apparently the japanese did some czochralski stuff with a bucket of water that had a dripping leak, which dripped into a collection bucket on a lever | 12:01 |
| nmz787 | and that lever was pulling up on the seed crystal | 12:01 |
| fenn | go rosie go! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Silicon_grown_by_Czochralski_process_1956.jpg | 12:02 |
| nmz787 | (the tank bucket had a toilet float valve in it to keep the head pressure consistent) | 12:02 |
| fenn | why is she shooting a ray gun at it | 12:02 |
| nmz787 | temp probe | 12:03 |
| fenn | it's just weird that you'd have to hold it | 12:03 |
| nmz787 | "The Bridgman method is a popular way of producing certain semiconductor crystals such as gallium arsenide, for which the Czochralski process is more difficult." | 12:03 |
| nmz787 | .wik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgman%E2%80%93Stockbarger_technique | 12:03 |
| yoleaux | "The Bridgman–Stockbarger technique is named after Harvard physicist Percy Williams Bridgman (note the spelling) and MIT physicist Donald C. Stockbarger (1895–1952). They are two similar methods primarily used for growing single crystal ingots (boules), but which can be used for solidifying polycrystalline ingots as well." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgman%E2%80%93Stockbarger_technique | 12:03 |
| fenn | i don't think growing crystals is all that hard | 12:04 |
| fenn | you need a motive to do so first | 12:04 |
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| kanzure | what was the reason for going straight to crystals anyway? | 12:04 |
| nmz787 | and also .wik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-pulling-down | 12:04 |
| fenn | silicon ingots don't defend against pillaging hordes | 12:04 |
| nmz787 | .wik http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-pulling-down | 12:05 |
| yoleaux | "The micro-pulling-down (µ-PD) method is a crystal growth technique based on continuous transport of the melted substance through micro-channel(s) made in a crucible bottom." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-pulling-down | 12:05 |
| nmz787 | you need to do one of those to get your pocket calculator | 12:05 |
| fenn | because nmz787 is doing the old "build a laptop in caesar's rome" thought experiment | 12:05 |
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| kanzure | i don't understand why he's doing that | 12:05 |
| kanzure | we already established that librarian was a moron | 12:06 |
| fenn | nevermind that microchips are probably more common now than sand deposits | 12:06 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: that was your opinion and I was agreeing a bit with the librarian that it isn't something to brush off | 12:08 |
| nmz787 | that's all | 12:08 |
| kanzure | http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2014/11/20/techstars-graduates-success-rates-what-the-numbers-show/ | 12:09 |
| kanzure | you don't even need crystals to make circuits | 12:09 |
| nmz787 | you need them for diodes | 12:10 |
| nmz787 | one form of crystal or another | 12:10 |
| nmz787 | http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2014/11/20/techstars-graduates-success-rates-what-the-numbers-show/ | 12:10 |
| nmz787 | sorry | 12:10 |
| fenn | is that true? how do screen-printed transistors work then? | 12:10 |
| nmz787 | a transistor isn't a diode | 12:11 |
| fenn | it's two diodes :P | 12:11 |
| nmz787 | ? | 12:11 |
| fenn | a semiconductor diode is usually a PN junction, and a transistor is a PNP junction sandwich | 12:12 |
| fenn | or NPN or whatever | 12:12 |
| fenn | you can use the three electrodes as if they were two diodes | 12:12 |
| nmz787 | are the screen printed transistors NPN? | 12:13 |
| nmz787 | or some type of FET? | 12:13 |
| fenn | they are talking about FET in this article | 12:14 |
| nmz787 | I guess there are also vacuum tube diodes | 12:14 |
| fenn | i've also seen FET-based diodes ("low dropout voltage") | 12:14 |
| nmz787 | wouldn't that be more related to pulsing them on/off though? | 12:15 |
| fenn | yes but the effect is the same | 12:15 |
| fenn | even regular diodes have hysteresis | 12:16 |
| nmz787 | oh, this was also connected to the 'etch instructions on how to make a DVD drive, to then read your post-apocalypse rebuilding-society DVD' | 12:16 |
| fenn | in the distant future of hello kitty, feral tribes of mutated orphan children will trade instructions on how to rebuild civilization | 12:17 |
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| fenn | protect the seed http://lh5.ggpht.com/_kMzxrQXhcbk/Sj4iRAXujoI/AAAAAAAAAGM/hCt3Po_CMq4/s1600-h/HelloKittyMarines%5B11%5D.jpg | 12:19 |
| nmz787 | I will throw those into my bonfires early on | 12:20 |
| fenn | you sir, are worse than the spanish inquisition | 12:20 |
| nmz787 | the only hello-kitty in my house is a pair of second-hand pajama pants that a family member gave my gf | 12:21 |
| nmz787 | or maybe we bought them at a goodwill | 12:21 |
| nmz787 | that's right, she got justin bieber pajamas from someone who's daughter grew out of them | 12:22 |
| fenn | TMI | 12:22 |
| nmz787 | :P | 12:23 |
| fenn | how are polycrystalline solar panels not diodes? | 12:23 |
| nmz787 | just letting you know my stance on hello kitty | 12:23 |
| nmz787 | they would be | 12:23 |
| nmz787 | but they're also crystalline | 12:23 |
| nmz787 | it looks like even the screen printed transistors exhibit crystal-interface behaviou | 12:24 |
| nmz787 | behaviour | 12:24 |
| fenn | so the only thing you'll accept as "non-crystal" is a single molecule? or a cloud of plasma? | 12:24 |
| nmz787 | well, the principle is still difficult | 12:25 |
| fenn | oops i meant "amorphous silicon" not polycrystalline | 12:25 |
| nmz787 | it is quite a step up from a herbal poultice | 12:25 |
| nmz787 | 'grind up this crap that smells good' | 12:26 |
| fenn | yeah you need a lot of other stuff before a transistor becomes even remotely useful | 12:26 |
| fenn | wires, electricity, actuators/output devices | 12:27 |
| fenn | the transistor radio is probably the lowest tech device involving a transistor | 12:28 |
| fenn | maybe an LED flashlight qualifies | 12:28 |
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| nmz787 | that would indeed be useful | 12:29 |
| kanzure | “There is a certain amount of elitism [in the internet community] that I'm not sure people are even aware of, that people around the world can afford to buy a 56k modem and pay $30 for one hour of internet, therefore the internet being so expensive has no future. If I want information, I could just go to my local library for free " | 12:30 |
| fenn | i've seen some electroluminescent driver circuits that used only reed relays | 12:31 |
| fenn | the chemistry is pretty simple, zinc sulfide on a conductor | 12:32 |
| fenn | you could plausibly stack 90 batteries in series instead of trying to build a step-up transformer | 12:32 |
| fenn | kanzure what decade was that quote from? | 12:33 |
| kanzure | 5 hours ago | 12:35 |
| fenn | i dont understand what they are saying then | 12:35 |
| fenn | the internet obviously has a future | 12:36 |
| kanzure | it was a reply to "There is a certain amount of elitism [in the Bitcoin community] that I'm not sure people are even aware of, that people around the world can afford to have money in a currency." | 12:36 |
| fenn | "the Apollo guidance computer, which used a Sylvania electroluminescent display panel as part of its display-keyboard interface" | 12:39 |
| fenn | i figured it used light bulbs | 12:40 |
| fenn | oh the seven segment displays | 12:41 |
| kanzure | what made it sylvanian? | 12:41 |
| fenn | Sylvania was the company that manufactured it | 12:43 |
| kanzure | alright | 12:44 |
| fenn | presumably they knew a lot about phosphors from manufacturing fluorescent (actually phosphorescent) light bulbs | 12:44 |
| kanzure | for "investors should never invest in basic research" to be true, it would also have to be true for anyone else's time and attention | 12:55 |
| fenn | never is a pretty strong word | 12:56 |
| kanzure | *everyone else's | 12:56 |
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| TMA | paperbot: http://www.envplan.com/epd/fulltext/d29/d0510.pdf | 13:47 |
| TMA | paperbot: http://envplan.com/abstract.cgi?id=d0510 | 13:51 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1068%2Fd0510 | 13:51 |
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| fenn | dirty dirty bees https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Bees_Collecting_Pollen_2004-08-14.jpg | 14:01 |
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| TMA | I am more after the bureaucrats and parasites; bees are dirty -- but it's a clean dirt | 14:05 |
| fenn | TMA http://fennetic.net/irc/damn_dirty_bees.pdf | 14:05 |
| fenn | paperbot is confused at the moment | 14:06 |
| TMA | thanks. I have managed to get it through http://libgen.org/scimag/ | 14:06 |
| TMA | not through the paperbot's link, though | 14:07 |
| fenn | oh, i always wondered if that actually worked in other countries | 14:07 |
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| TMA | i got it through http://www.envplan.com.sci-hub.org/abstract.cgi?id=d0510 and then http://www.envplan.com.sci-hub.org/epd/fulltext/d29/d0510.pdf [with a russian header -- Vremennaya ssylka dlya skachivaniya stat'i sci-hub.org/downloads/006a/10.0000@www.envplan.com@generic-078F39FED12D.pdf propustit' i otkryt' zanovo ---> | 14:10 |
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| TMA | Tovarysch! Vstupay v nashi ryady: vk.com/sci_hub | 14:11 |
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| fenn | heh | 14:11 |
| TMA | which [apart from the last part "Comrade! Join our ranks: vk.com/sci_hub"] is somewhat unintellegible to me | 14:12 |
| TMA | one semester of russian some ten years ago is not enough :) | 14:13 |
| TMA | until now, I have been able to circumvent the paywall just by clever google queries | 14:15 |
| TMA | fenn: paperbot was definitely helpful, even if he were not, if you follow me | 14:15 |
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| kanzure | the scihub person has always been grumpy about no donations | 16:07 |
| kanzure | blocking entire countries due to lack of donations, etc. | 16:22 |
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| nmz787 | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoRVEw5gL8c | 16:42 |
| yoleaux | Viewing an active electronic circuit with a scanning electron microscope - YouTube | 16:42 |
| nmz787 | Ben Krasnow with his DIY SEM | 16:42 |
| kanzure | ["person:ben krasnow", laserlab, carbon, farmer friend, ] | 16:44 |
| kanzure | fenn: this is a stupid chart idea, right? http://i.imgur.com/G50d13q.png | 16:47 |
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| fenn | there are too many bins | 17:31 |
| fenn | and MBTC is ambiguous (actually just wrong) | 17:31 |
| kanzure | yes it is morally wrong to write it as "MBTC" in this context | 17:32 |
| kanzure | and for this reason alone he should be banned from the internet | 17:32 |
| kanzure | but i think the graph type is just wrong anyway? | 17:32 |
| fenn | it's not very enlightening | 17:33 |
| fenn | like what are those sudden transitions | 17:33 |
| kanzure | those are transactions from single addresses to multiple addresses, or multiple addresses to single addresses | 17:34 |
| fenn | what happened in december 2011 | 17:34 |
| fenn | someone split up their hoard into 1k wallets? | 17:34 |
| kanzure | 2011-12-12 "Largest amount of fees, to-date, in a single transaction, and most fees in a single block. A transaction paid 171 BTC in fees in block 157235[12]." | 17:35 |
| kanzure | http://webbtc.com/tx/1d7749c65c90c32f5e2c036217a2574f3f4403da39174626b246eefa620b58d9 | 17:35 |
| kanzure | although that's not enough | 17:35 |
| kanzure | "First European Bitcoin Conference in Prague, Czech Rep" | 17:36 |
| kanzure | "First CVE (CVE-2011-4447) assigned to a Bitcoin client exploit." | 17:37 |
| kanzure | "Tribute to Len Sassaman included in the blockchain[9]." | 17:37 |
| kanzure | "The MtGox database was compromised and the user table was leaked, containing details of 60,000 usernames, email addresses and password hashes, some of which were overly simple to brute force passwords." | 17:37 |
| kanzure | "Someone was able to access an admin account at MtGox and issue sell orders for hundreds of thousands of fake bitcoins, forcing the MtGox price down from $17.51 per bitcoin to $0.01. MtGox announced that these trades would be reversed. Trading was halted at MtGox for 7 days (and also briefly at TradeHill and Britcoin while their security was reviewed)." | 17:37 |
| kanzure | beautiful | 17:37 |
| kanzure | i remember that password leak | 17:37 |
| fenn | that was late 2011? | 17:38 |
| kanzure | mid-2011 | 17:38 |
| fenn | well there's a spike there too | 17:39 |
| kanzure | hmm wasn't silk road either. | 17:39 |
| kanzure | " It noted that, "From February 6, 2011 to July 23, 2013 there were approximately 1,229,465 transactions completed on the site. The total revenue generated from these sales was 9,519,664 Bitcoins, and the total commissions collected by Silk Road from the sales amounted to 614,305 Bitcoins. These figures are equivalent to roughly $1.2 billion in revenue and $79.8 million in commissions, at current Bitcoin exchange rates...", according to the ... | 17:39 |
| kanzure | ... September 2013 complaint, and involved 146,946 buyers and 3,877 vendors.[9] Ac" | 17:40 |
| fenn | this graph mostly says to me, "people wise up and move their bitcoins out of a single wallet" | 17:42 |
| kanzure | raw data would have been more helpful | 17:43 |
| kanzure | but yeah i think that's probably true | 17:43 |
| fenn | so nothing worth mentioning happened after april 1 2013 | 17:44 |
| fenn | according to this wiki at least | 17:45 |
| kanzure | i get the feeling the wiki hasn't been updated in a while | 17:46 |
| kanzure | this was an excellent timeline of silk road things http://antilop.cc/sr/ | 17:47 |
| fenn | wow i thought silk road had been around for longer than that | 17:48 |
| fenn | people were all "thanks for ruining it gawker" as if it had been around for years | 17:49 |
| fenn | apparently it was only 6 months? | 17:49 |
| fenn | this is a much more interesting timeline btw | 17:50 |
| kanzure | you may also be interested in http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/2014-04-24-blackmarkettable-draft.html | 17:54 |
| kanzure | (i think this file is from gwern) | 17:54 |
| fenn | looks like his style | 17:55 |
| Qfwfq | Yeah, that reads like 'gwern'. Also the stylesheet reference: | 17:59 |
| Qfwfq | <link rel="stylesheet" href="/home/gwern/wiki/static/css/default.css" type="text/css" /> | 17:59 |
| Qfwfq | :D:D:D | 17:59 |
| superkuh | Bismuth is the future of technology. | 17:59 |
| fenn | superkuh fusion or just technology in general | 18:00 |
| superkuh | Bismuth-Bismuth picostructures based on controlling oxidation state. | 18:01 |
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| fenn | i definitely have no idea what that is | 18:02 |
| fenn | i only see one group even talking about "picostructures" including V Valvoda, AJ Perry, D Rafaja in the early 1990s, and WJ MoberlyChan in 2000's | 18:06 |
| superkuh | A lot of it doesn't talk about picostructures explicitly, but they are. Most research is relating to bismuth halides and manipulating bond angles with precision. | 18:07 |
| superkuh | http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/zaac.19926120120/abstract | 18:07 |
| superkuh | Lots of stuff on bismuth wires, tubes, sheets, monolayers, islands, and even just single bismuth ions being awesome. Depending on the oxidation state of the bismuth-bismuth bonds they can be topologically insulating, superconducting, thermoelectric, etc. | 18:11 |
| fenn | that happens for carbon too, right? | 18:12 |
| superkuh | But carbon isn't a metal and it doesn't have the 5(!) oxidation states. | 18:14 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: what about heekscad? it seems to be using wxPython for the GUI so I could drop it in as a tab of my existing FIB GUI | 18:18 |
| nmz787 | or a microfluidics-based CAD tool | 18:18 |
| nmz787 | one tab for setting up your circuit, another that shows the resultant fed into CAD | 18:19 |
| kanzure | i think that svg is an ideal option for microfluidics at the moment | 18:19 |
| nmz787 | s/resultant/resulting/ | 18:19 |
| kanzure | heekscad is a gui on top of opencascade so it crashes whenever opencascade has a bug just like all the other open source cad tools that use opencascade | 18:19 |
| fenn | superkuh: this is too far from my experience to have any intuition at all, but i'll mention to my dad who's into computational materials science | 18:19 |
| nmz787 | I need something to draw shapes with though, so if I can throw in a CAD program rather than just some a shapes canvas thing | 18:20 |
| nmz787 | that might be nice | 18:20 |
| nmz787 | sage seems nice for doing math, but it is huge and doesn't act like a library | 18:21 |
| nmz787 | (i could for example use that to give me points of some math equation to draw as an SVG) | 18:21 |
| fenn | seconding inkscape | 18:22 |
| kanzure | tallakahath and genehacker are our resident computational materials/chemistry people | 18:22 |
| nmz787 | fenn: there's this https://github.com/wxWidgets/wxPython/blob/master/samples/pySketch/pySketch.py | 18:23 |
| kanzure | what is it with you and guis | 18:23 |
| kanzure | always with you running before you can crawl... | 18:24 |
| nmz787 | ? | 18:24 |
| nmz787 | I like to see things to make sure the code is right | 18:24 |
| nmz787 | oh, I guess gimp has python scripting | 18:25 |
| fenn | how about inkscape | 18:25 |
| nmz787 | seems to have some python interface | 18:26 |
| fenn | svg is pretty easy to dump out from cairo, and provides a reasonable drawing API | 18:27 |
| fenn | cairo is now the standard rendering engine for gtk so there are sure to be more examples than is helpful | 18:28 |
| kanzure | http://opendata.cern.ch/ | 18:37 |
| kanzure | http://opendata.cern.ch/visualise/events/CMS | 18:37 |
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| kanzure | genehacker: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/zaac.19926120120/abstract | 18:45 |
| kanzure | "Secondary building units, nets and bonding in the chemistry of metal-organic frameworks" http://authors.library.caltech.edu/38677/1/b817735j.pdf | 18:48 |
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| kanzure | "Size-controlled synthesis and morphology evolution of bismuth trifluoride nanocrystals via a novel solvent extraction route" http://wls.iphy.ac.cn/nianbao/upload/4_paper/Nanoscale5(2013)518-A01.pdf | 19:10 |
| kanzure | "The recent discovery of fuel-free propulsion of nanomotors using acoustic energy has..." hmm. | 19:24 |
| kanzure | "Acoustic propulsion of nanorod motors inside living cells" http://esm.psu.edu/wiki/_media/research:juh17:wang_w_angewandte_2014.pdf | 19:26 |
| genehacker | sbu's paper is pretty cool | 19:29 |
| kanzure | hm? | 19:30 |
| genehacker | secondary building units | 19:32 |
| kragen | svg is, much to my surprise, the nicest drawing API of all | 19:34 |
| kragen | I mean it's hard to beat PostScript but SVG did it' | 19:34 |
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| kanzure | kragen: seems like you are the sort of person who would have opinions to make publicly known over here about this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8646605 | 19:51 |
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| Lemminkainen | paperbot http://www.nature.com/nchem/journal/v6/n12/full/nchem.2099.html | 20:15 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnchem.2099 | 20:15 |
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| kanzure | http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja403994u "Herein, we describe for the first time a one-step emulsion-based technique that permits the assembly of metal–organic framework (MOF) faceted polyhedral BBs (i.e., cubes instead of spheres) into 3D hollow superstructures (or “colloidosomes”). The shell of each resultant hollow MOF colloidosome is constructed from a monolayer of cubic BBs, whose dimensions can be precisely controlled by ... | 20:28 |
| kanzure | ... varying the amount of emulsifier used in the synthesis." | 20:28 |
| kanzure | i really don't see anyone using this for synthesizing arbitrary nanoscale geometries | 20:30 |
| kanzure | and i'm not sure why | 20:30 |
| kragen | kanzure: infobitts is trying to do something important and difficult, but I don't think they will succeed | 20:33 |
| fenn | my favorite news story of all time http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/apr/12/news-is-bad-rolf-dobelli | 20:34 |
| Qfwfq | fenn: oh, that's a delightful piece | 20:38 |
| kanzure | terribly obvious and mundane | 20:42 |
| fenn | news is bad mmkay | 20:43 |
| fenn | this is your brain on news | 20:43 |
| fenn | any questions? | 20:43 |
| nmz787 | ' Out of the 10,000 news stories you may have read in the last 12 months' i did not read nearly that many stories | 20:44 |
| kanzure | 20-30 items per day is easy to hit | 20:45 |
| kanzure | hacker news landing page is 30 | 20:45 |
| kanzure | if you check more than once per day.... | 20:45 |
| nmz787 | ' In a 2001 study two scholars in Canada showed that comprehension declines as the number of hyperlinks in a document increases. ' | 20:46 |
| nmz787 | http://www.wired.com/2010/05/ff_nicholas_carr/ | 20:46 |
| nmz787 | .title | 20:46 |
| yoleaux | Author Nicholas Carr: The Web Shatters Focus, Rewires Brains | WIRED | 20:46 |
| nmz787 | is that the same dude (at wired) someone in here was complaining about recently | 20:46 |
| nmz787 | ? | 20:47 |
| fenn | "hacker news" at least contains a significant fraction of actionable information | 20:47 |
| Qfwfq | kanzure: well yeah, the fun is that the guardian published it | 20:47 |
| fenn | (assuming you're a hacker at least) | 20:47 |
| fenn | have you watched TV news lately? OMG it's snowing in buffalo new york! the syrians are suffering! shooting on some street you've never heard of! football! basketball! children presented with an award! | 20:49 |
| kanzure | who put you in front of a television | 20:50 |
| kanzure | god damn war crimes right there | 20:50 |
| fenn | why do you think i disappeared for a year | 20:50 |
| kanzure | do they have a fenn operating license? | 20:50 |
| nmz787 | the buffalo snow was pretty impressive | 20:52 |
| nmz787 | it was so much less in nearby rochester though | 20:52 |
| kanzure | :facepalm: | 20:52 |
| nmz787 | i was a little pissed that I wasn't still living there to go out and play | 20:53 |
| kanzure | is your irc subtlety detector working | 20:53 |
| kragen | hmm, http://tiny.cc/jngrpx shows that SVG is still quite a bit more verbose than PostScript when you use it without a programming language | 20:53 |
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| kragen | but the overhead isn't actually all that bad | 20:54 |
| kragen | gsave grestore is actually no less verbose than <g transform=""></g> | 20:55 |
| kragen | and in many cases it's adequate to just say transform="" on an element | 20:55 |
| kragen | I think SVG's more readable though | 20:56 |
| kragen | and basic drawing things like moveto, lineto, rmoveto, and setrgbcolor are actually shorter in SVG. not to mention that it's easier to see what they apply to | 20:56 |
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| Lemminkainen | paperbot http://www.nature.com/clpt/journal/v87/n3/full/clpt2009295a.html | 21:44 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fclpt.2009.295 | 21:44 |
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| heath | .commands | 22:43 |
| yoleaux | Commands are divided into categories: services, general, api, demos, admin. Use .commands <category> to get a list of the commands in each. | 22:43 |
| heath | .commands general | 22:43 |
| yoleaux | Commands in general: ask, at, botsnack, buck, bytes, choose, in, msg, on, pick, ping, seen, supercombiner, t, tell, to, tz. Use .help to get information about them. | 22:43 |
| heath | .help | 22:43 |
| yoleaux | heath: I'm yoleaux. Type .commands to see what I can do, or see http://dpk.io/yoleaux for a quick guide. | 22:43 |
| heath | .help tell | 22:43 |
| yoleaux | Relay a telegram to someone | 22:43 |
| heath | .tell heath watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC9K21wz0CQ already | 22:44 |
| yoleaux | heath: Talking to yourself is the first sign of madness. | 22:44 |
| heath | .help remind | 22:44 |
| yoleaux | heath: Sorry, no help is available for remind. | 22:44 |
| heath | yoleaux: i hate you | 22:44 |
| sheena | heath you ok? | 22:45 |
| heath | sheena: yes | 22:45 |
| sheena | :) | 22:45 |
| heath | .title | 22:45 |
| yoleaux | [FOSDEM 2013] How we made the Jenkins community - YouTube | 22:45 |
| heath | the slides have been nice so far | 22:46 |
| Qfwfq | .mangle Colourless green ideas sleep furiously. | 22:46 |
| yoleaux | Qfwfq: Sorry, that command (.mangle) crashed. | 22:46 |
| heath | .title http://www.aosabook.org/en/integration.html | 22:46 |
| yoleaux | The Architecture of Open Source Applications: Continuous Integration | 22:46 |
| heath | jenkins + pytest + tox is looking attractive | 22:47 |
| * heath has past experience with jenkins | 22:47 | |
| sheena | what are you building? | 22:48 |
| heath | sheena: some bitcoin service that kanzure and friend thought up | 22:50 |
| sheena | ah | 22:50 |
| sheena | kanzure is asleep | 22:50 |
| sheena | as usual | 22:50 |
| heath | as i should be | 22:50 |
| Lemminkainen | heath pls to explain sleep | 22:51 |
| heath | Lemminkainen: i don't understand what you just said | 22:53 |
| Lemminkainen | it's OK heath I'm quite drunk and don't understand what I asked myself | 22:53 |
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| genehacker | sleep is for slackers | 23:28 |
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| nmz787 | .commands demos | 23:33 |
| yoleaux | Commands in demos: crash, flood, wait, wait-crash. Use .help to get information about them. | 23:33 |
| nmz787 | .commands services | 23:33 |
| yoleaux | Commands in services: acronym, add-command, botsmack, command-help, del-command, dety, distance, geo, insult, leo, moon, ngrams, nokiageo, o, oed, r2r, roll, rot13, shipping, suggest, swhack, thesaurus, tw, twho, weather, yi. Use .help to get information about them. | 23:33 |
| nmz787 | .help geo | 23:33 |
| yoleaux | Look up a location in Googles's place names database | 23:33 |
| nmz787 | .geo tokyo | 23:34 |
| yoleaux | nmz787: Tokyo, Japan at 35.689,139.692 to wit http://google.com/maps?q=35.689,139.692 | 23:34 |
| nmz787 | .help moon | 23:34 |
| yoleaux | Check the current phase of the moon | 23:34 |
| nmz787 | .help ngrams | 23:34 |
| yoleaux | Compare the frequency of words/phrases in an n-grams database | 23:34 |
| nmz787 | .help swhack | 23:34 |
| yoleaux | Search the last 30 days of Swhack logs | 23:34 |
| nmz787 | .help yi | 23:34 |
| yoleaux | Is it yi yet? | 23:34 |
| nmz787 | .yi | 23:34 |
| yoleaux | Not yet... | 23:34 |
| nmz787 | .yi 3223 | 23:34 |
| yoleaux | Not yet... | 23:34 |
| nmz787 | .yi gdgs | 23:34 |
| yoleaux | Not yet... | 23:34 |
| nmz787 | .help tw | 23:34 |
| yoleaux | See the weather somewhere, with forecast | 23:34 |
| nmz787 | .help o | 23:35 |
| yoleaux | (Deprecated) Call a web-service command | 23:35 |
| nmz787 | .distance tokyo portland | 23:35 |
| yoleaux | Usage: place1 ... place2 | 23:35 |
| nmz787 | .distance tokyo ... portland | 23:35 |
| yoleaux | nmz787: 7793.39 km linear distance between Tokyo, Japan ... Portland, OR, USA, see http://google.com/maps?q=to:tokyo+to:portland | 23:35 |
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| nmz787 | .distance portland .. gresham | 23:35 |
| yoleaux | Usage: place1 ... place2 | 23:35 |
| nmz787 | .distance portland ... gresham | 23:35 |
| yoleaux | nmz787: 19.35 km linear distance between Portland, OR, USA ... Gresham, OR, USA, see http://google.com/maps?q=to:portland+to:gresham | 23:35 |
| nmz787 | .commands services | 23:40 |
| yoleaux | Commands in services: acronym, add-command, botsmack, command-help, del-command, dety, distance, geo, insult, leo, moon, ngrams, nokiageo, o, oed, r2r, roll, rot13, shipping, suggest, swhack, thesaurus, tw, twho, weather, yi. Use .help to get information about them. | 23:40 |
| nmz787 | .commands api | 23:40 |
| yoleaux | Commands in api: c, chars, d, decode, ety, g, gc, gcs, head, i-love-the-w3c, ietf, img, mangle, news, npl, py, rfc, title, tr, u, val, w, wa, wik. Use .help to get information about them. | 23:40 |
| nmz787 | .c | 23:40 |
| yoleaux | Query Wolfram Alpha for a calculator result | 23:40 |
| nmz787 | .u | 23:40 |
| yoleaux | Search for a Unicode character by codepoint, name, or raw character | 23:40 |
| nmz787 | .py | 23:40 |
| yoleaux | Evaluate an expression in Python | 23:40 |
| nmz787 | .gc | 23:40 |
| yoleaux | Count the number of Google results for a phrase | 23:40 |
| nmz787 | .gc spectrophotometer | 23:40 |
| yoleaux | nmz787: Sorry, that command (.gc) crashed. | 23:40 |
| nmz787 | .gc spectrophotometer | 23:41 |
| yoleaux | nmz787: Sorry, that command (.gc) crashed. | 23:41 |
| nmz787 | .decode | 23:41 |
| yoleaux | Decode HTML entities | 23:41 |
| nmz787 | .py print sys.prefix | 23:41 |
| yoleaux | /base/data/home/runtimes/python/python_dist | 23:41 |
| nmz787 | .py import subprocess; print subprocess.Popen('uname -u', stdout=subprocess.PIPE).communicate(); | 23:42 |
| yoleaux | AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'Popen' | 23:42 |
| nmz787 | .py import subprocess; print dir(subprocess)#.Popen('uname -u', stdout=subprocess.PIPE).communicate(); | 23:42 |
| yoleaux | ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__'] | 23:42 |
| nmz787 | .py import subprocess; print subprocess.__dict__#.Popen('uname -u', stdout=subprocess.PIPE).communicate(); | 23:43 |
| yoleaux | {'__builtins__': {'IndexError': <type 'exceptions.IndexError'>, 'all': <built-in function all>, 'help': Type help() for interactive help, or help(object) for help about object., 'vars': <built-in function vars>, 'SyntaxError': <type 'exceptions.SyntaxError'>, 'unicode': <type 'unicode'>, 'UnicodeDecodeError': <type 'exceptions.UnicodeDecodeError'>, 'isinstance': <built-in function isinstance>, 'co | 23:43 |
| nmz787 | .py import subprocess; print subprocess.__doc__#.Popen('uname -u', stdout=subprocess.PIPE).communicate(); | 23:43 |
| yoleaux | None | 23:43 |
| nmz787 | .py import subprocess; print subprocess.__builtins__#.Popen('uname -u', stdout=subprocess.PIPE).communicate(); | 23:43 |
| yoleaux | {'IndexError': <type 'exceptions.IndexError'>, 'all': <built-in function all>, 'help': Type help() for interactive help, or help(object) for help about object., 'vars': <built-in function vars>, 'SyntaxError': <type 'exceptions.SyntaxError'>, 'unicode': <type 'unicode'>, 'UnicodeDecodeError': <type 'exceptions.UnicodeDecodeError'>, 'isinstance': <built-in function isinstance>, 'copyright': Copyrig | 23:43 |
| nmz787 | .py print 'sorry yoleaux' | 23:44 |
| yoleaux | sorry yoleaux | 23:44 |
| nmz787 | .py p = '.py print'; print p | 23:44 |
| yoleaux | .py print | 23:44 |
| nmz787 | .py p = '.py print p'; print p | 23:44 |
| yoleaux | .py print p | 23:44 |
| nmz787 | .py p = '.py print 123'; print p | 23:45 |
| yoleaux | .py print 123 | 23:45 |
| nmz787 | .py print 123 | 23:45 |
| yoleaux | 123 | 23:45 |
| nmz787 | .py print '.geo tokyo' | 23:46 |
| yoleaux | .geo tokyo | 23:46 |
| nmz787 | .py print 'paperbot http://hello.com' | 23:46 |
| yoleaux | paperbot http://hello.com | 23:46 |
| nmz787 | mwah hah hah | 23:46 |
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| genehacker | whoa | 23:55 |
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| --- Log closed Sun Nov 23 00:00:59 2014 | ||
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