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| chris_99 | nmz787, are you about per chance? | 06:27 |
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| kanzure | hrmph | 07:17 |
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| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_language | 08:40 |
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| archels | this seems to be quite active http://transhumanity.net/ | 08:52 |
| archels | wonder who's behind it--this Foundation they speak of in their about page | 08:53 |
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| kanzure | you guys are boring | 10:13 |
| eudoxia | well what have you been doing that's less boring | 10:21 |
| yoleaux | 29 Nov 2014 22:08Z <kanzure> eudoxia: someone linked to your page here http://nextbigfuture.com/2014/11/dna-nanotechnology-breaking-through.html | 10:21 |
| eudoxia | cool | 10:24 |
| chris_99 | i got a price for fabrication of microfluidic chips that ranges from $500 - $1500 depending on the fab process/how deep they etch, apparently they go down to a 5um process | 10:29 |
| kanzure | yoleaux is back | 10:35 |
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| eudoxia | we'll see | 10:36 |
| eudoxia | .wa 200lbs in kg | 10:36 |
| yoleaux | convert 200 lb (pounds) to kilograms: 90.72 kg (kilograms); Additional conversions: 14 stone 4 pounds; 0.1 sh tn (short tons); 90718 grams; Comparison as mass: ~1.3 × typical standard adult human male mass (~70 kg); Corresponding quantities: Weight w of a body from w = mg:: 890 N (newtons): 8.896×10⁷ dynes: 90718 ponds: 200 lbf (pounds-force): 6.2 slugf (slugs-force) | 10:36 |
| eudoxia | finally | 10:37 |
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| ginkgo_mole | kanzure | 10:43 |
| kanzure | sup | 10:44 |
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| nmz787_i | chris_99: there's a place in ireland that might be cheap for you | 10:50 |
| chris_99 | oooh linky? | 10:50 |
| nmz787_i | https://www.tyndall.ie/content/wafer-fabrication | 10:55 |
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| nmz787_i | err, I guess this more specifically https://www.tyndall.ie/content/mems-0 | 10:56 |
| nmz787_i | it just links to enquiry@tyndall.ie | 10:56 |
| chris_99 | cheers, to start with i'll probably just order those ones from thailand, but in the future that could be useful | 10:56 |
| nmz787_i | but I had been chatting with a guy there months back | 10:56 |
| chris_99 | oh nice | 10:56 |
| nmz787_i | also I recommend posting on linkedin, they have some relatively active microfluidics forums | 10:57 |
| nmz787_i | lots of folks post links to suppliers, and lots of suppliers drop their company names/contact info | 10:57 |
| chris_99 | oh heh, i've not used linkedin for that kind of stuff heh | 10:57 |
| chris_99 | nice | 10:57 |
| chris_99 | oh i was gonna ask you before, so the supplier says YM-01 can approximately contain 70-700 uL for 10 and 100 um depth, respectively. | 10:58 |
| chris_99 | ideally i'd probably want the lowest depth i assume | 10:58 |
| chris_99 | so 10um | 10:58 |
| nmz787_i | your yeast are prob 30 um | 10:58 |
| chris_99 | no , 5um | 10:58 |
| nmz787_i | consider clogging? | 10:58 |
| chris_99 | oh actually wiki says ' typically measuring 3–4 µm in diameter, although some yeasts can reach over 40 µm ' | 10:59 |
| chris_99 | yes good point | 10:59 |
| chris_99 | so 100um would be more sane? | 10:59 |
| nmz787_i | 'Yeast size can vary greatly depending on the species, typically measuring 3–4 µm in diameter, although some yeasts can reach over 40 µm' | 10:59 |
| nmz787_i | from .wik yeast | 10:59 |
| nmz787_i | oh | 10:59 |
| nmz787_i | derp | 10:59 |
| chris_99 | heh | 10:59 |
| nmz787_i | yea | 10:59 |
| chris_99 | i'll probably order 3 different chips | 11:00 |
| chris_99 | to see how they compare | 11:00 |
| nmz787_i | well to be fair the ref for that quote isnt about saccharomyces | 11:01 |
| chris_99 | oh yeah | 11:01 |
| chris_99 | hmm | 11:01 |
| nmz787_i | http://www.probrewer.com/library/filtration/brewery-filter-applications/ | 11:01 |
| chris_99 | "S. cerevisiae cells are round to ovoid, 5–10 micrometres in diameter" | 11:02 |
| chris_99 | so maybe 50um slide would be ok | 11:02 |
| nmz787_i | what is DE? | 11:02 |
| chris_99 | just waiting for it to load | 11:02 |
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| chris_99 | hmm no idea | 11:03 |
| nmz787_i | the only bad thing about going too tall is focus | 11:03 |
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| nmz787_i | if you're trying to get images quickly | 11:03 |
| nmz787_i | otherwise they would be distributed through the Z | 11:03 |
| nmz787_i | and you'd need to let them settle for some time | 11:03 |
| nmz787_i | (this would also allow diffusive mixing) | 11:03 |
| chris_99 | yeah, so i want as small Z as possible | 11:03 |
| chris_99 | but not too small to clog | 11:04 |
| nmz787_i | unless you had a thick enough depth of field/focus... or maybe did some holographic imaging | 11:04 |
| chris_99 | heh, as in take photos at different angles? | 11:04 |
| nmz787_i | no like those lens-free papers we were talking about some time ago | 11:06 |
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| chris_99 | oh | 11:06 |
| nmz787_i | maybe this http://www.pnas.org/content/108/18/7296.full | 11:07 |
| chris_99 | that sounds cool | 11:09 |
| chris_99 | it does sound like they vary the angle of light? | 11:09 |
| chris_99 | that seems v. clever | 11:10 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: pm | 11:12 |
| nmz787_i | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3521054/ | 11:12 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1117%2F1.JBO.17.12.126018 | 11:12 |
| nmz787_i | ncbi has that http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3521054/pdf/JBO-017-126018.pdf | 11:13 |
| chris_99 | cheers | 11:13 |
| nmz787_i | oh, paperbot is now sneaky | 11:13 |
| chris_99 | oh it just grabs stuff? | 11:13 |
| chris_99 | i saw krasnow did a thing on laser mics interesting, didn't seem to work too well with the double-glazing alas | 11:21 |
| chris_99 | he thought a photomultiplier could be useful, and aim the laser at a painting in the room | 11:21 |
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| delinquentme | any chance someone might have an estimated cost on an arcgis server? | 11:40 |
| nmz787_i | isn't that just a normal server running a spatial dbms? | 11:48 |
| nmz787_i | so cost of hardware + arcgis dbms license for # of users, etc | 11:48 |
| nmz787_i | interesting concept for testing chip-scale devices http://www.swtest.org/swtw_library/2000proc/pdf/S04_Chan.pdf | 11:52 |
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| nmz787_i | huh, this is quite informative of the fab flow process http://www.ntktech.com/admin/upload/files/htccpkggeneraldg_reva.pdf | 11:55 |
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| nmz787_i | ooo, but then type 'BERIED CONDUCTOR LAYER' | 11:56 |
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| nmz787_i | "Notably, Khurana et al., demonstrated that photoluminescence emission coincides with the switching of a transistor, thereby showing that, in addition to failure analysis, the phenomenon can also be used for device debug and circuit design. " | 11:59 |
| nmz787_i | I guess it would be easier to fab LEDs for bio gene-induction based on light | 12:00 |
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| kanzure | "For those of you interested in what the NYDFS is looking through, all 3,746 public comments are now available: http://www.dfs.ny.gov/legal/vcrf_comments.htm " | 12:22 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: are those about that bill that would have regulated bitcoin in NYC? | 12:27 |
| kanzure | these are comments from the public regarding the proposed "bitlicense" | 12:27 |
| eudoxia | right, that's what i meant i think | 12:28 |
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| nmz787_i | lapd.evidence.com | 12:57 |
| nmz787_i | .title | 12:57 |
| yoleaux | DFS: Comments Regarding the Proposed Virtual Currency Regulatory Framework | 12:57 |
| nmz787_i | .title http://lapd.evidence.com | 12:57 |
| yoleaux | EVIDENCE.COM | 12:58 |
| nmz787_i | 'Forgot your username or password?' | 12:58 |
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| kanzure | "Steve Coles, MD, GRG founder, experienced cardiac arrest in Scottsdale AZ at 8:50, Dec 3, about 45 min ago. Scottsdale is where Alcor is, and Steve had traveled there last week to be close to the cryonics foundation." | 13:21 |
| kanzure | "Steve died very peacefully of pneumonia, secondary to his pancreatic cancer, and cryopreservation was begun immediately. His wife has been present throughout the process, and has been a great support to all." | 13:21 |
| eudoxia | it's good to know he received a prompt cryopreservation | 13:36 |
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| kanzure | yeah that's like a happy ending to a fairy tale | 13:41 |
| kanzure | "and they were all cryopreserved in a timely manner, the end" | 13:41 |
| eudoxia | many people have unfortunately not made it so it's always good to hear | 13:42 |
| kanzure | did i ever tell you about a friend of mine who was building these cryopreservation inflation suits | 13:43 |
| kanzure | so that on impact in a terrible accident you would be cryopreserved within a few minutes? | 13:43 |
| drazak | I guess I was old and had lived a good life and had not a whole lot left to complete, I wouldn't really see the point of cryopreservation for myself | 13:44 |
| kanzure | have fun being dead dude | 13:44 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: no, but please tell me more | 13:44 |
| kanzure | maybe later. i don't have details in working memory at the moment. | 13:45 |
| eudoxia | do you have a source for the cryo bits? the GRG website doesn't say anything, and i can't find anything on the usual sources | 13:46 |
| eudoxia | i.e. longecity, exi mailing list | 13:46 |
| kanzure | grg mailing list | 13:47 |
| kanzure | for steve coles? if that's what you mean | 13:48 |
| kanzure | as for the cryopreservation-on-impact that was either in person or over the phone | 13:48 |
| eudoxia | yes, thanks | 13:48 |
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| archels | kanzure: no record of that transhumanity.net website? | 14:06 |
| kanzure | 15:40 < superkuh> This is one example of it: http://transhumanity.net/articles/entry/digital-nootropics | 14:18 |
| kanzure | 00:42 < eleitl> oh, by the way, what do you think of latest transhumanity.net content. | 14:18 |
| kanzure | 02:15 < eleitl> archels, if a thinking person goes to http://transhumanity.net/ what would she think? | 14:18 |
| kanzure | 19:21 < kanzure> ughh http://transhumanity.net/articles/entry/were-offering-certificate-programs-in-transhumanism | 14:18 |
| kanzure | 21:19 <@kanzure> http://transhumanity.net/articles/entry/diy-grinding-get-in-here-transhumanism-is-a-verb-not-a-club | 14:18 |
| kanzure | their landing page is pretty bad | 14:19 |
| kanzure | looks like hplusmagazine | 14:19 |
| kanzure | "solar dresses" | 14:19 |
| kanzure | i hate all of you | 14:20 |
| superkuh | I don't remember that. | 14:20 |
| kanzure | eh i didn't look at context in your case, just checking for archels | 14:20 |
| kanzure | although i do like how eugen leitl had already told archels about the site :) | 14:21 |
| superkuh | Maybe a horrible article about binaural beats and low power magnetic "stimulation" I did not like. | 14:21 |
| superkuh | My best guess (even if it is not relevant to the current topic of conversation). | 14:21 |
| kanzure | 15:37 < superkuh> Guh. What is it with people who call themselves transhumanists believing in weak magnetic field effects and Persinger's bullshit? | 14:22 |
| kanzure | yep... | 14:22 |
| kanzure | 15:39 < superkuh> These guys think that ultra-low strength magnetic fields, microgauss, can somehow interact with the brain through stochastic resonances (or some shit, they never talk mechanism). | 14:23 |
| kanzure | https://www.gen9bio.com/resources/g-prize/ "This year, in order to further spark innovation in synthetic biology, two 500,000 base pair prizes will be awarded, one to a pre-commercial startup and one to an academic/public-benefit organization, for a total of 1 million base pairs of synthesized DNA. The winning teams can select to have their DNA sent as any length from 400bp to 10kbp. The submission deadline is midnight EST, 31 December ... | 14:30 |
| kanzure | ... 2014." | 14:30 |
| archels | kanzure: oh, nice. I wonder where eleitl got it from... | 14:30 |
| kanzure | eleitl is perhaps more "plugged in" than i am | 14:30 |
| kanzure | probably has more of the european transhumanist community than i do | 14:30 |
| kanzure | seeing as how he's been around in germany since forever | 14:31 |
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| kanzure | ""Ryan Bethencourt seized his opportunity back in 2008. That made him an outlier: most people, after all, were seizing pink slips, not opportunities. But while the Great Recession wiped out billions in home equity and blew up companies by the score, it also freed up plenty of hard assets. In simple terms, you could buy a lot of expensive stuff for a song. And that’s just what Bethencourt and his pal, molecular biologist and fellow ... | 14:33 |
| kanzure | ... DIYbio enthusiast, John Schloendorn, did."" | 14:33 |
| kanzure | .title https://medium.com/@oreillyradar/dispatches-from-the-bleeding-edge-of-biotech-7913ebb58991 | 14:33 |
| yoleaux | Dispatches from the bleeding edge of biotech — Medium | 14:34 |
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| archels | kanzure: could it potentially be the case that content has vanished from diyhpl.us or am I just doing it wrong | 14:39 |
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| kanzure | archels: which content are you looking for? | 14:50 |
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| archels | something about neuromorphic integrated circuits | 15:01 |
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| kanzure | oh interesting, i don't actually remember that | 15:15 |
| kanzure | more details pls? | 15:15 |
| kanzure | format of content? | 15:16 |
| kanzure | temporal coordinates? | 15:16 |
| archels | maybe 2-3 months ago | 15:17 |
| archels | I just signed up via the web and created a page | 15:17 |
| kanzure | on the wiki? | 15:18 |
| archels | yep | 15:19 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/diyhpluswiki/commits/master | 15:19 |
| archels | yeah so I didn't actually go through git (maybe I should have) | 15:20 |
| kanzure | web interface is just another git interface | 15:20 |
| kanzure | maybe i lost commits | 15:20 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: have any clever tricks for checking if i lost archels' commits? maybe i should just read through reflog in /srv/ikiwiki/ or something? | 15:21 |
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| nmz787 | paperbot: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2661257 | 15:33 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1145%2F2661229.2661257 | 15:34 |
| nmz787 | they have it but it's a big one at 14mb http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Rendering_Volumetric_Haptic_Shapes_in_Mid-Air_using_Ultrasound.pdf | 15:37 |
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| nmz787 | "Weighted Tikhonov Regularization" | 15:38 |
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| jrayhawk | yeah, git status, reflog, and git fsck | 16:24 |
| kanzure | dangling commit 53730e797bfaed1d0b94100e9774c35e6a068296 but 76def5c21288cd594b97aa465b950023f114ef85 is in master and seems to be equivaent anyway | 16:26 |
| kanzure | not seeing anything else, reflog is pretty blank (probably because i did a recent (a few months ago?) rebuildrepo) | 16:26 |
| kanzure | archels: did you see yesterday backlog re: macrocircuits, neural circuits, non-microcircuit circuits in human brain and do you agree/disagree about their existence | 16:34 |
| archels | I think right now it relates to whether you're willing to see much biological in deep learning | 16:36 |
| archels | as to claims about cortical columns and the 'canonical cortical microcircuit', I'm not so sure | 16:37 |
| kanzure | "Alternatively, "deep learning" has been characterized as "just a buzzword for",[5] or "largely a rebranding of", neural networks.[6]" | 16:38 |
| archels | yeah | 16:38 |
| archels | deep learning is pretty cool, but it's a lot closer to GOFAI than neuroscience | 16:38 |
| kanzure | but but my question was about circuits | 16:39 |
| archels | what's a circuit? | 16:40 |
| kanzure | hmm, well i thought it was a widely accepted term in neuroscience but i strongly suspect it's not if you're unaware of it | 16:40 |
| archels | it's so widely used as to have become meaningless | 16:41 |
| kanzure | fiber tracts? | 16:42 |
| archels | better, because that at least defines a scale of analysis | 16:43 |
| archels | so, do I agree about the existence of fibre tracts? :) | 16:45 |
| kanzure | yes | 16:45 |
| kanzure | that is a good question | 16:45 |
| kanzure | haha page 6 figure 4 http://arxiv.org/vc/arxiv/papers/1008/1008.5161v1.pdf "it's so simple!!!" (well, maybe it is) | 16:45 |
| kanzure | although i have to admit the feature extraction salience vector stuff from deep learning is inticing | 16:48 |
| archels | kanzure: I think your question basically pertains to the complete inability of contemporary neuroscience to integrate across levels of description | 16:53 |
| archels | we can do large-scale mapping of the fibre bundles, we can poke single neurons and model them to some degree | 16:53 |
| archels | inbetween there? mostly void | 16:53 |
| kanzure | that is very interesting | 17:01 |
| kanzure | that's a potential paper i think | 17:01 |
| kanzure | refuting the prior literature about neural circuits | 17:01 |
| archels | more a rant than a paper, perhaps :) | 17:02 |
| kanzure | for example, | 17:03 |
| kanzure | page 2 figure 1 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/Cognitive%20consilience:%20Primate%20non-primary%20neuroanatomical%20circuits%20underlying%20cognition%20-%202011.pdf | 17:03 |
| kanzure | these are not microcircuits afaik | 17:03 |
| kanzure | oops re: http://arxiv.org/vc/arxiv/papers/1008/1008.5161v1.pdf i meant page 5 figure 4 | 17:05 |
| archels | yeah, that paper is symptomatic. we're just doing cartography, and badly at that | 17:06 |
| ybit | .title | 17:06 |
| ybit | oh yeah | 17:06 |
| ybit | nm | 17:06 |
| yoleaux | ybit: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page. | 17:06 |
| archels | (not to be down on Van Hout Solari and Stoner, this is just the state of the field) | 17:06 |
| kanzure | archels: so there's no large-scale circuitry of the brain, possibly encoded by genetics? if so, then would you agree the same is true about brain regions...? | 17:07 |
| archels | the title of their paper is ironic though; there isn't much consilience going on in this ballpark | 17:07 |
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| archels | hold up--I wanted to say that large-scale circuitry is actually one end of the resolution scale where we're reasonbly certain of things | 17:08 |
| archels | or at least we know what to expect in terms of what's real and what the limits of the technology (such as DWI) are | 17:08 |
| kanzure | and when you say large-scale... what scale is this? :) | 17:09 |
| kanzure | ah, there are two versions of that arxiv paper. page 6 figure 4 was right. | 17:11 |
| archels | oh, like that paper you posted about ape/human comparative neuroanatomy of the frontal lobe | 17:11 |
| kanzure | but... that paper was doing comparative neuroanatomy of some circuits. | 17:12 |
| kanzure | heh | 17:12 |
| archels | exactly, because we defined 'circuits' = 'fibre tracts' a little earlier | 17:12 |
| archels | < archels> what's a circuit? | 17:13 |
| archels | < kanzure> fiber tracts? | 17:13 |
| archels | so that makes sense for this level of description | 17:13 |
| kanzure | are there any good overviews of known fiber tracts? | 17:14 |
| kanzure | or reviews | 17:14 |
| archels | a lot of it is textbook material, probably | 17:20 |
| archels | I have to sleep, ttyl | 17:20 |
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| kanzure | i wonder what methods those gorilla trainers were using for teaching american sign language | 17:30 |
| kanzure | presumably gorilla brains do not have brain regions that help with language/grammar to the extent those appear in human brains | 17:30 |
| kanzure | so instead of expecting a gorilla to pick up on grammar rules you would have to account for the lack of "grammar rule inference" by teaching these rules very explicitly | 17:31 |
| kanzure | and how you communicate specific knowledge to a gorilla is likely to be different from "give them a bunch of samples of correct use" | 17:31 |
| kanzure | maybe they would be able to use the rules if they were aware of their importance | 17:32 |
| kanzure | *aware of them | 17:32 |
| bbrittain | paperbot: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/02687039608248419 | 17:37 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1080%2F02687039608248419 | 17:37 |
| bbrittain | I've developed a reputation for being able to get papers thanks to paperbot | 17:39 |
| bbrittain | this is bad | 17:39 |
| kanzure | why is that bad? | 17:40 |
| kanzure | hah it is bad because you are manually handling requests :) | 17:41 |
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| kanzure | from the gen9bio "competition": ""Start-up Track: open to operating, pre-commercialization stage, privately-owned companies actively engaged in research & development who have successfully raised a minimum of $5M in equity investment"" | 18:07 |
| bbrittain | yea, how many bp were they giving away? 500k? | 18:14 |
| kanzure | "The Saddest Moment" (about byzantine fault tolerance) http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/mickens/thesaddestmoment.pdf | 18:16 |
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| Qfwfq | This is amazing, I'm not sure why today's the first I heard of it http://arxiv.org/abs/1312.6082 | 20:19 |
| Qfwfq | .title http://arxiv.org/abs/1312.6082 | 20:20 |
| yoleaux | [1312.6082] Multi-digit Number Recognition from Street View Imagery using Deep Convolutional Neural Networks | 20:20 |
| Qfwfq | Context: https://blog.torproject.org/blog/call-arms-helping-internet-services-accept-anonymous-users | 20:22 |
| Qfwfq | Context: https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/203306930-Does-CloudFlare-block-Tor- | 20:23 |
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| kanzure | "Methods of identifying general intelligence in extremely slow software" | 21:04 |
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