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| superkuh | paperbot: http://www.cell.com/neuron/abstract/S0896-6273(14)00008-7 | 00:56 |
|---|---|---|
| superkuh | Oh. Nope. libgen finally stopped timing out. | 00:57 |
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| superkuh | http://www.genome.gov/images/content/cost_genome.jpg - reaching a floor? | 01:24 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627314000087 | 01:37 |
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| kanzure | superkuh: hmm, i suspect that depends on their sampling methodology (are they including "hypothetical cost per genome" based on things like single molecule sequencing, or only things they can buy on the commercial market?). | 05:43 |
| kanzure | "This is a collection of disassembled and commented source of parts of MS-DOS 1.0, which can be assembled back into (almost) identical binaries (using NASM)." https://github.com/mist64/msdos1 | 05:53 |
| * heath waves gm | 06:05 | |
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| kanzure | wallet.cpp:1621:21: error: return-statement with no value, in function returning ‘bool’ | 08:56 |
| kanzure | these are true words | 08:56 |
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| poppingtonic | "Warning: could not run smart terminal, falling back to dumb one" | 10:28 |
| poppingtonic | well, then. | 10:29 |
| fenn | surfing the net on a TAC | 10:34 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5524 | 10:35 |
| kanzure | .title | 10:35 |
| yoleaux | Implement watchonly for fundrawtransaction by kanzure · Pull Request #5524 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub | 10:35 |
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| kanzure | ""Take that book Applied Cryptography that's on your bookshelf and burn it. Do that as a commitment to really learning crypto. But absolutely don't read it. If you don't read it, you have nothing to unlearn, so you're much better off."" | 12:29 |
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| fenn | what's wrong with that book in particular? | 12:37 |
| fenn | people seem to have a grudge against schneier | 12:38 |
| kanzure | bitcoin-wizards probably knows | 12:38 |
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| kanzure | "Source: http://wiki.securityweekly.com/wiki/index.php/Episode292 time index 22:20. But the whole podcast is good." | 13:04 |
| kanzure | there you go | 13:04 |
| kanzure | "(case-sensitive, without the quotes; exactly 16 characters; I like "YELLOW SUBMARINE" because it's exactly 16 bytes long, and now you do too)." | 13:06 |
| kanzure | from http://cryptopals.com/sets/1/challenges/7/ | 13:06 |
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| kanzure | "Meta-Genetic Programming is the proposed meta learning technique of evolving a genetic programming system using genetic programming itself. It suggests that chromosomes, crossover, and mutation were themselves evolved, therefore like their real life counterparts should be allowed to change on their own rather than being determined by a human programmer. Meta-GP was formally proposed by Jürgen Schmidhuber in 1987.[8] Doug Lenat's ... | 13:44 |
| kanzure | ... Eurisko is an earlier effort that may be the same technique." | 13:44 |
| kanzure | "This allowed competing programs to embed damaging instructions in each other that caused errors (terminating the process that read it), "enslaved processes" (making an enemy program work for you), or even change strategies mid-game and heal themselves." | 13:50 |
| kanzure | "Steen Rasmussen at Los Alamos National Laboratory took the idea from Core War one step further in his core world system by introducing a genetic algorithm that automatically wrote programs. However, Rasmussen did not observe the evolution of complex and stable programs. It turned out that the programming language in which core world programs were written was very brittle, and more often than not mutations would completely destroy the ... | 13:50 |
| kanzure | ... functionality of a program." | 13:50 |
| kanzure | "The first to solve the issue of program brittleness was Tom Ray with his Tierra system, which was similar to core world. Ray made some key changes to the programming language such that mutations were much less likely to destroy a program. With these modifications, he observed for the first time computer programs that did indeed evolve in a meaningful and complex way." | 13:50 |
| kanzure | "Later, Chris Adami, Titus Brown, and Charles Ofria started developing their Avida system,[2] which was inspired by Tierra but again had some crucial differences. In Tierra, all programs lived in the same address space and could potentially overwrite or otherwise interfere with each other. In Avida, on the other hand, each program lives in its own address space. Because of this modification, experiments with Avida became much cleaner and ... | 13:50 |
| kanzure | ... easier to interpret than those with Tierra." | 13:50 |
| kanzure | "In 1996, Andy Pargellis created a Tierra-like system called Amoeba that evolved self-replication from a randomly seeded initial condition." | 13:51 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0167278995002685 | 13:53 |
| kanzure | wut "The probability of generating a self-replicator increases with the number of operations in its sequence." that doesn't model reality very well | 13:53 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20The%20spontaneous%20generation%20of%20digital%20Life%0A%20.pdf | 13:54 |
| kanzure | http://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=756572838428630835&as_sdt=5,44&sciodt=0,44&hl=en | 13:54 |
| kanzure | this seems to have some interesting conclusions regarding whether or not "precursors to replication" can exist http://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/titles/alife/0262290758chap36.pdf | 13:56 |
| poppingtonic | kanzure, actually it kinda does. increases in the complexity of certain kinds of formal systems also increase the likelihood of the systems becoming turing-complete. | 14:02 |
| poppingtonic | granted, "self-replicator" does not necessarily imply "designed in a turing-complete language". | 14:03 |
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| kanzure | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10015-004-0289-5 | 14:05 |
| kanzure | .title | 14:05 |
| yoleaux | Universal constructor to build a Tierran machine structure - Springer | 14:05 |
| fenn | the universal tierraning machine | 14:08 |
| kanzure | "Another question is how many instructions are needed to execute a single replication cycle. More steps per cycle increase the probability that perturbations introduce errors in the replication process. A further point of consideration is ambiguity. The more different views on a program exist (see the frame-shift problems) the higher the dimensionality of the search space. Though in principle the number of possible solutions should ... | 14:23 |
| kanzure | ... increase also, the numbe rof non-solutions increases much faster (curse of dimensionality, see the 2^(2^n) increase in search space and only ~ 2^n increase in useful functionality when evolving digital functions[50])." | 14:23 |
| kanzure | "A consequence of this third finding is that no miraculous network-topology will help to create a replication system but only the sheer size of the search-space for finding a sufficiently small non-self-replication system, which in the current work and the currently available computer-power is around 22 unknown bits to be found. Transferring this result into biochemical systems require a systems setup such that physics and chemical ... | 14:33 |
| kanzure | ... properties have to provide the vast majority of information for getting a replication running and only a tiny amount of flexibility in the information carrying modules can be tolerated." | 14:33 |
| kanzure | Enzyme-like replication de novo in a micro-controller environment http://complex.upf.es/~josep/evolmic_replicator_3_uwe_tangen.pdf | 14:35 |
| kanzure | this is a very strange paper | 14:35 |
| kanzure | "Only very few bits can be encoded in the sequences everything else has to be provided by physics and chemistry. It is no hope that in nature the available parallelism is gigantic compared to what we have available in the computer: firstly, the explosion of the search-space outnumbers the available resources right from the beginning and secondly, the physical non-determinism fuziness and brownian motions consume many of the ... | 14:40 |
| kanzure | ... parallelism-resources. This is a very important finding. Even though proponents of the RNA-world hypothesis, [20][26], believe that ribozymes can in principle solve the replicator-emergence problem, still a gap between the required fidelity of replication and the capabilities of ribozymes exist. This upper bound of perhaps 20 to 30 bits of the exploitable information search space requires that ribozymes needing more than a few ... | 14:40 |
| kanzure | ... nucleotides will probably not be able to emerge spontaneously." | 14:40 |
| kanzure | "Low perturbation by random sequences. It turned out that too many random sequences in the vicinity of a replication system are a problem for spontaneous emergence. In contrast to the protein-world of [25] labile replication systems are being subjected to perturbations by other not relate sequences. Trinks [51] proposed ice-cavities as a possible space of the origin of life which seems to be a plausible location because of the huge ... | 14:43 |
| kanzure | ... parallelism, low energy intake and reliable environment conditions, this view is supported by [52] who argues that the phosphodiester backbone of RNA can be stabilized in ice." | 14:43 |
| kanzure | http://bruckner.biomip.rub.de/bmcmyp/Data/BIOMIP/WWW/Uwe/projects/EvoCpu/index.html | 14:44 |
| kanzure | http://bruckner.biomip.rub.de/bmcmyp/Data/BIOMIP/WWW/Uwe/projects/EvoCpu/examples.html "Emergence of replicators (size: 80MB) is a truly emergent simulation. No seeding apart from random initialization of micro-controllers is done. After some time, about 400 generations later, the first replicating enzyme-like programs occur and populate the 4096 available containers. Complex evolution events within the software of the 32768 ... | 14:45 |
| kanzure | ... micro-controllers can be observed. If survival-of-the-fittest means annihilation of the non-fit then no fittest program sequences do occur, instead a wealth of properties and behaviors can be seen strongly reminiscent of what we see in nature." | 14:45 |
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| kanzure | http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1 violation of no-philosophy, but an otherwise okay refutation at "absolute real identity", and not the worst possible way to refute to someone complaining about copies of individual brains | 15:12 |
| kanzure | although the ending is boring | 15:12 |
| fenn | omg how long does it take to unzip 3 million zip fies | 15:21 |
| fenn | er, one zip file | 15:22 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/uwe-tangen/software/EvoCpu_1.137.tar.gz | 15:26 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/uwe-tangen/software/evocpu-1.137/ | 15:26 |
| delinquentme | can something be more idempotent? or is it strictly binary? | 15:26 |
| kanzure | something can be less idempotent over a collection of different properties | 15:28 |
| delinquentme | kk | 15:30 |
| kanzure | nmz787: are you doing something on the server | 15:32 |
| fenn | i am | 15:32 |
| kanzure | what are you doing? | 15:32 |
| fenn | unzipping something | 15:32 |
| kanzure | what are you unzipping? | 15:32 |
| fenn | metadata | 15:32 |
| fenn | i didnt expect it to take so long; will renice it | 15:33 |
| kanzure | this evocpu code isn't as bad as i was expecting | 15:34 |
| kanzure | gpl license, no version control but academia handicap applies anyway | 15:34 |
| kanzure | /*----- Lokale Varibalendeklarationen -----*/ | 15:35 |
| kanzure | ah here's why nobody has looked | 15:35 |
| kanzure | did nobody really test whether or not a pool of random instructions could lead to self-replicating programs? | 15:38 |
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| kanzure | hehe he cites ellington (which is fair) | 15:48 |
| kanzure | are you still doing things? | 15:54 |
| kanzure | hm | 15:55 |
| fenn | i think it's io-limited | 15:58 |
| fenn | lots of little files (it's 30% done) | 16:00 |
| fenn | maybe i should make a ramdisk | 16:02 |
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| fenn | uh oh | 16:18 |
| kanzure | hm? | 16:18 |
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| fenn | my command to make a loopback filesystem image froze | 16:20 |
| kanzure | i should probably not be trying to do writes at the moment huh | 16:20 |
| fenn | not if you expect them to make it to the disk | 16:21 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/uwe-tangen/data/evocpu_20071205_scratch_evol/proc_y_g_20071205_1214_full/hash_0x00000000_001_20071209_210248_hash.png | 16:21 |
| fenn | what do you do when kill -9 fails? | 16:23 |
| catern | reboot | 16:23 |
| fenn | noooooo | 16:23 |
| archels | wait 15 minutes, sometimes it resolves itself | 16:24 |
| archels | otherwise, say goodbye to your uptime | 16:24 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: ping | 16:24 |
| * fenn hides | 16:25 | |
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| kanzure | i would laso like pid 6150 and 6151 dead | 16:28 |
| kanzure | *also | 16:28 |
| kanzure | yikes no writes are working at all? | 16:28 |
| fenn | dont worry it will work itself out in 4 hours | 16:29 |
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| kanzure | python 6220 bryan 49u IPv4 515250353 0t0 TCP IP:34242->edc-connection.ebscohost.com:http (CLOSE_WAIT) | 16:32 |
| kanzure | that can't be good | 16:33 |
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| fenn | are you just randomly killing processes | 16:37 |
| catern | killall5 | 16:38 |
| fenn | /sbin/TOPSECRET/nuke-all-processes | 16:39 |
| kanzure | well i ran iotop and that for some reason caused some of my processes to finish | 16:42 |
| fenn | mine finished too | 16:43 |
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| catern | must have been entangled processes | 16:43 |
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| fenn | how did you run iotop btw; when i do i get | 16:44 |
| fenn | Could not run iotop as some of the requirements are not met: | 16:44 |
| fenn | - Linux >= 2.6.20 with - VM event counters (CONFIG_VM_EVENT_COUNTERS) | 16:44 |
| kanzure | er. | 16:44 |
| kanzure | "command not found" | 16:44 |
| fenn | also i tried ionice just then but the process was gone | 16:44 |
| kanzure | retracted; i don't know what i was using | 16:45 |
| kanzure | and i closed that session | 16:45 |
| kanzure | netstat? | 16:45 |
| fenn | check .bash_history? | 16:45 |
| kanzure | nah my history doesn't work that way | 16:45 |
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| poppingtonic | you're trying out evocpu? | 16:46 |
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| kanzure | just looking at the files | 16:47 |
| jrayhawk | sometimes you can kill off processes stuck in D-state with a umount -f | 16:48 |
| jrayhawk | this is common with e.g. inaccessible NFS mounts | 16:48 |
| jrayhawk | or network FUSE stuff | 16:48 |
| jrayhawk | fusermount -u | 16:48 |
| fenn | this was just the regular UFS filesystem | 16:49 |
| jrayhawk | that's an odd choice | 16:49 |
| fenn | writing ~3million files and directories | 16:49 |
| fenn | don't ask me, i didn't pick UFS | 16:49 |
| fenn | /dev/hdv1 on / type ufs | 16:50 |
| kanzure | are these the torrent files | 16:50 |
| jrayhawk | oh, you're on gnusha | 16:50 |
| fenn | a small slice of torrent metadata | 16:50 |
| catern | who picked UFS? | 16:51 |
| jrayhawk | UFS is a lie | 16:51 |
| catern | why did they pick UFS | 16:51 |
| kanzure | poppingtonic: i am trying to decide how surprised i should be about these results | 16:51 |
| fenn | now i am afraid to delete the mess i made | 16:52 |
| kanzure | why? | 16:53 |
| jrayhawk | most likely unzip didn't sync until the end, which means a pile of other stuff has to wait for all that delayed allocation to happen | 16:53 |
| jrayhawk | because POSIX sucks and doesn't have userspace barriers | 16:54 |
| fenn | jrayhawk: does it make sense to create a loopback filesystem to write these files to? | 16:55 |
| jrayhawk | no? | 16:55 |
| fenn | i don't really understand what just happened | 16:55 |
| fenn | i did unzip 8xxxxxx.zip > /dev/null and it took forever and then nothing could write and then it magically fixed itself when we started poking around | 16:56 |
| jrayhawk | 16:53 < jrayhawk> most likely unzip didn't sync until the end, which means a pile of other stuff has to wait for all that delayed allocation to happen | 16:57 |
| fenn | it never finished | 16:57 |
| poppingtonic | i just unzipped it. is ./configure complaining about 'config.sub'? | 16:57 |
| jrayhawk | jrayhawk@gnusha:~$ pgrep unzip | 16:58 |
| jrayhawk | jrayhawk@gnusha:~$ | 16:58 |
| poppingtonic | rather, untarred. | 16:58 |
| jrayhawk | generally you can watch this in action with e.g. watch -n .2 cat /proc/meminfo | 16:58 |
| jrayhawk | specifically Dirty: and Writeback: | 16:59 |
| jrayhawk | or something may have synced in the middle of unzip | 16:59 |
| jrayhawk | like vim | 16:59 |
| jrayhawk | vim is annoyingly syncy | 17:00 |
| kanzure | poppingtonic: i haven't ran this yet | 17:01 |
| kanzure | poppingtonic: i suspect that running it will not be interesting, because the output files look quite cryptic | 17:01 |
| kanzure | like http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/uwe-tangen/data/evocpu_20071205_scratch_evol/proc_y_g_20071205_1214_full/hash_0x00000000_001_20071209_210248_hash.png | 17:01 |
| kanzure | and http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/uwe-tangen/data/evocpu_20071205_scratch_evol/evocpu_y_f_b_psm_2.out | 17:02 |
| jrayhawk | also we're running short on space on gnusha, which probably makes allocation very slow | 17:02 |
| kanzure | ah right, i should clean stuff up | 17:02 |
| jrayhawk | kanzure: did you want to do some cleanup, or should i just throw more disk at it | 17:02 |
| kanzure | i'll do some cleanup now, but more disk would be nice too? | 17:02 |
| jrayhawk | done | 17:03 |
| fenn | deleting a million files now... | 17:03 |
| kanzure | man we have lots of irc logs | 17:03 |
| jrayhawk | why are you deleting them | 17:04 |
| jrayhawk | why did you unzip them if you don't actually want them | 17:04 |
| poppingtonic | you could just get cheap space on s3... | 17:04 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/uwe-tangen/data/evocpu_20071205_scratch_evol/proc_y_g_20071205_1214_frame_1364/first_evolved_replicator.txt | 17:04 |
| fenn | i couldnt get zip to extract individual files (of which i wanted to look at a few near the end) and i also thought about recompressing them in a different format to match some other archives | 17:05 |
| fenn | because apparently one big glob like this causes problems :\ | 17:05 |
| poppingtonic | yeah the output doesn't make much sense at first glance. | 17:06 |
| kanzure | that last link is just poorly annotated opcodes | 17:06 |
| jrayhawk | jrayhawk@gnusha:/home/fenn/tpb$ unzip 8xxxxxx.zip 8xxxxxx-master/85xxxxx/859xxxx/8599995/details.csv -d ~/ | 17:07 |
| kanzure | and i think the images are coloration picked by hash of the program? | 17:07 |
| jrayhawk | Archive: 8xxxxxx.zip | 17:07 |
| jrayhawk | cc0184e6af4920632d2a6715e1ee70f68235d7a0 inflating: /home/jrayhawk/8xxxxxx-master/85xxxxx/859xxxx/8599995/details.csv | 17:07 |
| jrayhawk | jrayhawk@gnusha:/home/fenn/tpb$ | 17:07 |
| kanzure | pwnt | 17:08 |
| kanzure | this looks pretty bad to me: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/uwe-tangen/data/evocpu_20071205_scratch_evol/proc_y_g_20071205_1214_full/proc_y_g_20071205_1214_full.eps | 17:10 |
| jrayhawk | while the info-zip command line is clearly architected by asylum dwellers, it at least does work as documented | 17:10 |
| kanzure | why would programs starting with "end" become more common? | 17:10 |
| jrayhawk | also info-zip does its own glob matching, so you'll generally want to escape globs when using it | 17:12 |
| jrayhawk | because, again, asylum dwellers | 17:12 |
| kanzure | butt dwellers | 17:12 |
| jrayhawk | i like to think the command line of GNU false is more butt dwelling | 17:13 |
| jrayhawk | to its credit, --help and --version still return 1 | 17:14 |
| fenn | jrayhawk: was that the last file in the zip archive? i can't seem to unzip any other files | 17:17 |
| fenn | there are a lot of numbers missing from the sequence | 17:17 |
| fenn | and how did you know which file existed | 17:18 |
| kanzure | poppingtonic: http://web.archive.org/web/20061124154156/http://complexsystems.lri.fr/FinalReview/FILES/PDF/p85.pdf | 17:26 |
| kanzure | around page 6 is "Preliminary evolutionary results" | 17:27 |
| kanzure | apparently the system usually gets stuck making programs that have counters | 17:28 |
| poppingtonic | checking... | 17:31 |
| poppingtonic | "The micro-controller shown in Figure 2 is a late derivate of the sim- | 17:34 |
| poppingtonic | ple micro-controller [33] provided by Xilinx, the commercial leader in recongurable logic | 17:34 |
| poppingtonic | worldwide. | 17:34 |
| poppingtonic | " uhhhh... | 17:34 |
| kanzure | page 13 has one of the a better annotated self-replicator he fished out of the simulator | 17:35 |
| kanzure | yeah i am not sure why an fpga was being used | 17:36 |
| poppingtonic | the table on page 7 is rather unreadable.. | 17:38 |
| poppingtonic | s/table/graph. | 17:39 |
| poppingtonic | the x-axis | 17:39 |
| poppingtonic | http://bruckner.biomip.rub.de/bmcmyp/Data/BIOMIP/WWW/Uwe/projects/EvoCpu/instructions_a.html | 17:42 |
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| jrayhawk | fenn: unzip -l | 17:47 |
| kanzure | "The only solution to this coding-dilemma is to assume that the micro-controllers somehow do have physical contact when attached and that one is sliding along the other during the copy process. This sliding, well known in protein-chemistry, makes complex counter arithmetic superfluous. In the current model sliding is realized with an auto-increment feature. After reading (LOAD) a value from a foreign program the read-counter is ... | 18:10 |
| kanzure | ... incremented automatically, the same holds for write-operations (STORE). " | 18:10 |
| kanzure | http://bruckner.biomip.rub.de/bmcmyp/Data/BIOMIP/WWW/Uwe/projects/EvoCpu/recognition.html | 18:10 |
| kanzure | "How many and which instructions are constituting the micro-controllers can be considered as an arbitrary choice. Also, the maximum length of programs, the maximum number of visible neighbors, the communication interfaces - is a feature of the program." | 18:11 |
| kanzure | "What constraints the number of choices considerably, is the requirement that the system has to be able to find a replication system and ways of its maintenance. On the other hand, ``physics'' can be made so simple that no evolution and emergence at all is needed to create replicating entities. In between these two extremes a suitable implementation of the physical environment should be realized. The question is, how many unknown bits in ... | 18:11 |
| kanzure | ... the evolving programs can be tolerated by the dynamics of the system to still allow the emergence of replicators. The number of bits is measured as the difference between a viable evolved replication program and the provided parts of software in the micro-controllers at the onset." | 18:11 |
| kanzure | http://bruckner.biomip.rub.de/bmcmyp/Data/BIOMIP/WWW/Uwe/projects/EvoCpu/modeling_physics.html | 18:15 |
| kanzure | "However, when replication emerged, the evolving programs revealed that many codes with a length of only one instruction utilized most of the CPU-time (see above on the minimum template length). Especially when these programs consisted of single Store-instruction, neighboring machines could be overwritten with the same value independent of what useful functionality had evolved before. This sort of denial of service or vandalism in the ... | 18:19 |
| kanzure | ... system made the emergence of replicative systems impossible. With a minimum program length of two instructions this problem could be mitigated. It is biologically plausible to require a certain minimum complexity or length of sequences before emergent replication can occur." | 18:19 |
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| kanzure | http://www.infionline.net/~wtnewton/corewar/evol/ | 19:44 |
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| kanzure | so the lesson is.... random collections of "rop gadgets" turn into self-replication. | 20:39 |
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| kanzure | "A fully novel artificial replicator is a reasonable near-term goal. A NASA study recently placed the complexity of a clanking replicator at approximately that of Intel's Pentium 4 CPU.[7] That is, the technology is achievable with a relatively small engineering group in a reasonable commercial time-scale at a reasonable cost." | 20:57 |
| kanzure | wait what does complexity have to do with cost in this context | 20:57 |
| kanzure | oh right, toth-fejel http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/final_report/883Toth-Fejel.pdf | 20:58 |
| kanzure | "Consider a Pentium IV computer chip, which costs between $130 and $1200 each, in which the wires and transistors that constitute the devices with the desired functionality are less than 5 microns thick. That means that the part of the Pentium that actually does the work costs up to $320 million per pound, with a complexity metric per pound of 57 trillion. But this is nothing compared to Eigler’s 35 atoms that spelled out IBM, back in ... | 21:01 |
| kanzure | ... 1990 – the worlds smallest advertisement. If advanced Scanning Tunneling Probes were free, and if Eigler was paid minimum wage, that ad would have cost about a quadrillion quadrillion dollars per pound with a complexity metric of over 10^24 per pound." | 21:01 |
| kanzure | that does not seem to be the same claim | 21:01 |
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| kanzure | http://booksc.org/ claims 20 million papers | 21:07 |
| kanzure | http://booksc.org/angels.php#investors | 21:08 |
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| kanzure | i am trying to decide if conway/game of life counts as "self-replication from random initial conditions" | 21:21 |
| kanzure | "On May 18, 2010, Andrew J. Wade announced a self-constructing pattern dubbed Gemini which creates a copy of itself while destroying its parent.[23][24] This pattern replicates in 34 million generations, and uses an instruction tape made of gliders which oscillate between two stable configurations made of Chapman-Greene construction arms. These, in turn, create new copies of the pattern, and destroy the previous copy. Gemini is also a ... | 21:21 |
| kanzure | ... spaceship, and is in fact the first spaceship constructed in the Game of Life which is neither orthogonal nor purely diagonal (these are called knightships).[25][26]" | 21:21 |
| kanzure | "On November 23, 2013, Dave Greene built the first replicator in Conway's Game of Life, that creates a complete copy of itself, including the instruction tape.[27]" | 21:21 |
| kanzure | ah okay, these don't seem to develop from random initial conditions | 21:21 |
| maaku | kanzure: have you read freitas' self-replicating moon base report? | 21:28 |
| maaku | http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.107.6462 | 21:29 |
| kanzure | naturally | 21:29 |
| kanzure | also AASM and KSRM | 21:30 |
| kanzure | you know i sent him an email the other day | 21:30 |
| kanzure | he was telling me this story about how he lost all his bitcoin on mtgox :) | 21:30 |
| maaku | :( | 21:31 |
| maaku | well theres hope for that it seems | 21:32 |
| maaku | well i'm long on bitcoin in order to self-fund a merkle-freitas nanofactory, so all is not lost | 21:33 |
| bkero | maaku: If you're looking for a short bitcoin gain, do btx-xpy. Xpy has a set $20 price floor that will be introduced in 2 days | 21:34 |
| bkero | and is currently trading around .028btc | 21:35 |
| bkero | I'm day-trading it atm | 21:35 |
| maaku | bkero: i'm not a day trader (and find $20/btc unlikely, but what do I know) | 21:36 |
| kanzure | haha | 21:36 |
| maaku | i'm more of the buy-and-hold | 21:36 |
| kanzure | that is funny | 21:36 |
| kanzure | that interaction that just happened, i mean | 21:36 |
| bkero | maaku: no, $20/xpy | 21:36 |
| bkero | paycoin.com | 21:36 |
| kanzure | day trading is a good way to get addicted to a random number generator | 21:37 |
| bkero | They made a deal with Visa for convenient fiat conversion. | 21:37 |
| maaku | ah ok. still no thanks but your suggestion makes more sense now :P | 21:37 |
| bkero | kanzure: Nah, it's a good way to make algorithms that analyze and react to a random number generator | 21:37 |
| kanzure | maaku: i think your plan (self-fund) is a good one | 21:38 |
| kanzure | maaku: that's basically been my approach for anything worthwhile | 21:38 |
| maaku | yeah i've learned never to play the market. I've lost hundreds of bitcoins that way :\ | 21:38 |
| maaku | i'd be set to self-fund already if I hadn't done that | 21:38 |
| * kanzure sleeps | 21:39 | |
| bkero | I basically aet up a bot to 'sell everything at 0.034' and 'buy at 0.28', and earned about 33% in the last two days. | 21:40 |
| bkero | 0.028* | 21:40 |
| bkero | kanzure: g'nite | 21:40 |
| maaku | bkero: word of caution, that's how I lost my shirt | 21:42 |
| maaku | doubled my bitcoin on the swings in a volatile period, then hit my sell order on an upswing ... and never went down | 21:42 |
| maaku | ($8 per coin I think) | 21:42 |
| bkero | maaku: me too, I also have limit orders to buy at 0.04 and send me an email | 21:43 |
| maaku | Made enough to support myself for a few months, could have been a few million dollars if I held instead :\ | 21:44 |
| bkero | yeah | 21:44 |
| bkero | I did the same, mined with a 6gpu miner back in 2009 | 21:45 |
| kanzure | can i pay you to stop day trading? | 21:45 |
| kanzure | also, how much would you want | 21:45 |
| bkero | haha | 21:46 |
| bkero | I made abour $220 today. | 21:46 |
| bkero | You could pay me to stop :) | 21:46 |
| bkero | I'm going to stop anyway once the $20 price floor is in effect | 21:47 |
| kanzure | $220.. don't you make like $1600/day writing code? | 21:48 |
| bkero | I make $84k/year slinging code | 21:48 |
| kanzure | have you considered asking for more money | 21:49 |
| bkero | Which results in about $4200/mo after taxes | 21:49 |
| kanzure | good programmers are going for at least double that right now | 21:49 |
| bkero | Have, got stonewalled | 21:49 |
| kanzure | (at least) | 21:49 |
| kanzure | interesting | 21:49 |
| bkero | Am going to do it again | 21:49 |
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| kanzure | right, well, you have actual experience | 21:49 |
| bkero | last time was a manager ago | 21:49 |
| kanzure | unexperienced jerkfaces are getting $90k out of school with no time behind the keyboard | 21:49 |
| bkero | I have 10 years in coding and open source project experience, a BS in CS and aBusiness | 21:50 |
| kanzure | that's worth way more than double :) | 21:50 |
| bkero | and half a lifetime in computers | 21:50 |
| bkero | You want to pay me the double? :3 | 21:50 |
| kanzure | not at the moment | 21:51 |
| jrayhawk | though bkero works for locals, which makes hitting 180k much harder | 21:51 |
| kanzure | hmm. | 21:51 |
| kanzure | would a card-board cutout of your employer work? | 21:51 |
| bkero | jrayhawk: Moz isn't local | 21:51 |
| bkero | I work for the world at large | 21:53 |
| jrayhawk | and yet they pay you portland wages instead of SV wages | 21:53 |
| bkero | I also live in the world at large | 21:53 |
| kanzure | my view is why should i get paid local wages for living in a crap place? | 21:54 |
| jrayhawk | but i guess they're a foundation anyway | 21:54 |
| bkero | Nope | 21:54 |
| kanzure | irs disagrees | 21:54 |
| jrayhawk | oh, huh | 21:54 |
| jrayhawk | i am just retarded, then | 21:54 |
| bkero | I work for Mozilla Corporation | 21:54 |
| bkero | Not Foundation | 21:54 |
| bkero | Moco vs Mofo | 21:54 |
| jrayhawk | haha | 21:54 |
| bkero | yup | 21:54 |
| kanzure | irs was also complaining about foundation | 21:55 |
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| kanzure | maybe i should write an answer to http://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/6861/has-any-large-scale-origin-of-life-simulation-experiment-been-done | 22:03 |
| kanzure | isn't this a working proof of concept of abiogenesis? | 22:05 |
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