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| nmz787 | .wik cfd-ace+ | 01:31 |
|---|---|---|
| yoleaux | "CFD-ACE+ is a commercial computational fluid dynamics solver developed by ESI Group. It solves the conservation equations of mass, momentum, energy, chemical species and other scalar transport equations using the finite volume method." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFD-ACE%2B | 01:31 |
| nmz787 | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWKXChpTbqg | 01:33 |
| yoleaux | Lava Lamp simulation with ACE+ - YouTube | 01:33 |
| nmz787 | this obviously must become the hello world of physics simulators | 01:33 |
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| nmz787 | .wik parabolos | 01:41 |
| yoleaux | nmz787: Sorry, that command (.wik) crashed. | 01:41 |
| nmz787 | .wik palabos | 01:42 |
| yoleaux | "OpenFOAM (Open source Field Operation And Manipulation) is a C++ toolbox for the development of customized numerical solvers, and pre-/post-processing utilities for the solution of continuum mechanics problems, including computational fluid dynamics (CFD)." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenFOAM | 01:42 |
| nmz787 | hmm, I am watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I82uCa7SHSQ | 01:42 |
| nmz787 | .title | 01:42 |
| yoleaux | Introduction to Lattice Boltzmann Method @ Nasa Glenn 2013 - YouTube | 01:42 |
| nmz787 | .title http://www.palabos.org/software/lattice-boltzmann-method | 01:42 |
| yoleaux | Lattice Boltzmann Method | 01:42 |
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| FourFire | Hey, I'd like to bring up the topic of http://sl4.org/shocklevels.html I'm sure I have before, but I'd like to know whether anyone in here thinks there is any purpose to updating them to 2015? | 08:18 |
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| FourFire | I would appreciate reading an updated version of the essay, but I think I remember last time I brought up the topic, it was ridiculed as being old | 08:22 |
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| kanzure | what was the point of trying to measure someone's "shock" anyway | 08:29 |
| FourFire | kanzure, determine whether you can work with them for transhumanist progress plans | 08:30 |
| kanzure | so if they are experiencing "shock" by definition they are incapable of working on related engineering projects ? | 08:31 |
| FourFire | or whether they need more exposure to real hard transhumanist science/ speculative engineering since they're still on the reddit stargazer memespewer level | 08:31 |
| kanzure | you may have more luck starting with people who are already working on transhumanist engineering projects instead | 08:33 |
| FourFire | I see it as a tool for sorting people you interact with into people worth spending time on, and people not worth that time, not so much as a mastabatory measure of elite nerdyness | 08:33 |
| FourFire | but there aren't enough! | 08:34 |
| FourFire | we need more people! | 08:34 |
| eudoxia | this is the one think where i agree with dale carrico | 08:37 |
| eudoxia | >futurists boasting about how much techno-transformative storm-churn their manly meme muscles can take as compared to meek mehum sheeple of the "luddite" herd | 08:37 |
| kanzure | er, what about that boasting? | 08:38 |
| eudoxia | he's talking about the awfulness of shock levels | 08:38 |
| kanzure | so he was saying something like "shock evels are an example of <that quote you pasted>"? | 08:38 |
| eudoxia | yes | 08:39 |
| kanzure | ah | 08:39 |
| kanzure | there's probably some sort of social benefit to giving people some way of discriminating against out-group | 08:42 |
| kanzure | especially if your social group sucks at maintaining friendships on its own | 08:42 |
| maaku | i am remined of the the Little Prince and a certain picture of a snake eating an elephant | 08:42 |
| kanzure | but this particular social in-group/out-group discrimination is totally broken because people who think "other shock levels are silly" are still capable of doing interesting engineering work | 08:42 |
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| maaku | kanzure: +1 | 08:43 |
| kanzure | maaku: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/projects/#igem | 08:44 |
| kanzure | maaku: also https://groups.google.com/group/enzymaticsynthesis has some ideas for enzymatic synthesis of dna and proteins (e.g. aiming for $1/genome or less) | 08:44 |
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| heath | man, purescript is where it's at | 10:09 |
| kanzure | why's that? | 10:16 |
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| kanzure | .wik mothers against decapentaplegic homolog 3 | 10:21 |
| yoleaux | "Mothers against decapentaplegic homolog 3 also known as SMAD family member 3 or SMAD3 is a protein that in humans is encoded by the SMAD3 gene. SMAD3 is a member of the SMAD family of proteins. It mediates the signals from the transforming growth factor beta (TGF-β) superfamily ligands that regulate cell proliferation, differentiation and death." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothers_against_decapentaplegic_homolog_3 | 10:21 |
| heath | see the fanboyism section at https://gist.github.com/heath/b1525f4c87d104546f65#some-fanboyism | 10:24 |
| heath | static typing, pure functions, and property-based testing makes me feel a bit more comfortable when refactoring large code bases | 10:26 |
| heath | also, immutable data structures plus a virtual dom is generally faster than whatever you would get in angular or pure react.js | 10:27 |
| heath | http://elm-lang.org/blog/Blazing-Fast-Html.elm | 10:29 |
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| QuadIngi | "<maaku> i am remined of the the Little Prince and a certain picture of a snake eating an elephant" in what way? | 11:04 |
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| heath | https://s3.amazonaws.com/static.noisetrade.com/w/91c80015-cd39-49d4-8dd1-bfee3914a790/the_8bit_hymnal_2_christmas.zip?AWSAccessKeyId=1JYYXR88GV8RGYAXTHR2&Expires=1420139484&Signature=FkGrJoKQI4yyJ20032qfc%2Bu42U8%3D | 11:11 |
| heath | 8bit hymnal | 11:11 |
| heath | (music) | 11:12 |
| kanzure | insect flight muscle (protein) http://www.pdb.org/pdb/explore/sequenceCluster.do?structureId=2W49&entity=4&cluster=1403&seqid=30 | 11:21 |
| kanzure | no wait, i mean http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore.do?structureId=2W49 | 11:21 |
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| kanzure | cool you can search proteins by subcellular location http://www.uniprot.org/locations/ | 11:28 |
| kanzure | "fimbrium" | 11:29 |
| kanzure | http://www.ebi.ac.uk/QuickGO/GSearch?q=Click%20for%20example%20search | 11:29 |
| nmz787 | paperbot: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10404-010-0720-2 | 11:34 |
| nmz787 | http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Culture_and_chemical-induced_fusion_of_tobacco_mesophyll_protoplasts_in_a_microfluidic_device.pdf | 11:42 |
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| kanzure | i am not sure why this protein looks the way it does | 11:50 |
| kanzure | .wik apoptosome | 11:50 |
| yoleaux | "The apoptosome is a large quaternary protein structure formed in the process of apoptosis. Its formation is triggered by the release of cytochrome c from the mitochondria in response to an internal (intrinsic) or external (extrinsic) cell death stimulus." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apoptosome | 11:50 |
| yashgaroth | shit man that's the last structure the cell's gonna form, it might as well look cool | 11:56 |
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| kanzure | .wik chaperonin | 12:15 |
| yoleaux | "Chaperonins are proteins that provide favourable conditions for the correct folding of other proteins, thus preventing aggregation. Newly made proteins usually must fold from a linear chain of amino acids into a three-dimensional form. Chaperonins belong to a large class of molecules that assist protein folding, called molecular chaperones." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaperonin | 12:15 |
| kanzure | http://people.cryst.bbk.ac.uk/~ubcg16z/cpn/elmovies.html | 12:16 |
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| kanzure | .wik ferritin | 12:24 |
| yoleaux | "Ferritin is a ubiquitous intracellular protein that stores iron and releases it in a controlled fashion. The protein is produced by almost all living organisms, including algae, bacteria, higher plants, and animals. In humans, it acts as a buffer against iron deficiency and iron overload." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritin | 12:24 |
| kanzure | "Cavities formed by ferritin and mini-ferritins (Dps) proteins have been successfully used as the reaction chamber for the fabrication of metal nanoparticles (NPs).[30][31][32][33] Protein shells served as a template to restrain particle growth and as a coating to prevent coagulation/aggregation between NPs. Using various sizes of protein shells, various sizes of NPs can be easily synthesized for chemical, physical and bio-medical ... | 12:25 |
| kanzure | ... applications" | 12:25 |
| kanzure | .wik transferrin | 12:25 |
| yoleaux | "Transferrins are iron-binding blood plasma glycoproteins that control the level of free iron in biological fluids. Human transferrin is encoded by the TF gene." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transferrin | 12:25 |
| kanzure | http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore/explore.do?structureId=4DNU "The Arabidopsis thaliana protein UVR8 is a photoreceptor for ultraviolet-B. Upon ultraviolet-B irradiation, UVR8 undergoes an immediate switch from homodimer to monomer, which triggers a signalling pathway for ultraviolet protection. The mechanism by which UVR8 senses ultraviolet-B remains largely unknown. Here we report the crystal structure of UVR8 at 1.8 Å resolution, ... | 12:43 |
| kanzure | ... revealing a symmetric homodimer of seven-bladed β-propeller that is devoid of any external cofactor as the chromophore." | 12:43 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnature10931 | 12:43 |
| kanzure | what? | 12:47 |
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| eudoxia | paperbot has achieved sentience, and is trying to communicate using DOI codes | 12:50 |
| kanzure | "The 2003 Nobel Prize in Chemistry was awarded jointly to Peter Agre for the discovery of aquaporins,[4]" | 13:20 |
| kanzure | "In most cells, water moves in and out by osmosis through the lipid component of cell membranes. Due to the relatively high water permeability of some epithelial cells it was long suspected that some additional mechanism for water transport across membranes must exist. But it was not until 1992 that the first aquaporin, ‘aquaporin-1’ (originally known as CHIP 28), was reported by Peter Agre, of Johns Hopkins University.[11]" | 13:21 |
| kanzure | hehehe "However the first report of protein mediated water transport through membranes was by Gheorghe Benga in 1986.[14][15] This publication that preceded Agre's first publication on water membrane transport proteins has led to a controversy that Benga's work was adequately recognized by neither Agre nor the Nobel Prize Committee.[16] There is a long history of water pores, starting in 1957.[17] There have been many reviews of the ... | 13:22 |
| kanzure | ... history.[18]" | 13:22 |
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| Evoril | hi all :) | 13:29 |
| Evoril | is this channel devoted to nootropics exclusively? | 13:29 |
| Evoril | or other brain enhancment methods as well? | 13:30 |
| heath | meanwhile in a war room: https://github.com/ecomfe/echarts#%E7%82%AB%E5%85%89%E7%89%B9%E6%95%88 | 13:30 |
| Evoril | like self-hypnosis, speed/photoreading etc. | 13:30 |
| eudoxia | it's about transhumanism in general, nootropics sometimes, i don't think i've ever heard of those outside of some speedreading apps | 13:31 |
| heath | https://github.com/isohuntto/openbay | 13:31 |
| heath | https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock a more efficient adblock | 13:32 |
| eudoxia | hmm someone should port openbay to a more reasonable language | 13:33 |
| nmz787 | Evoril: all that and a bag of chips! | 13:35 |
| nmz787 | .ud all that and a bag of chips! | 13:36 |
| yoleaux | To mean that a person is all that and more. Usually it is an opinion and the only one who thinks it is that person. Other people usually don't believe the person is "all that and a bag of chips." The | 13:36 |
| nmz787 | 'Adj. 1) A superlative form of all that; something or someone which possesses all desired qualities PLUS unimagined or unforseen bonuses.' | 13:37 |
| * nmz787 hplusroadmap: all that, and a bag of chips (fried in tallow) | 13:38 | |
| eudoxia | but for real though | 13:42 |
| kanzure | if people really want bioplastics then someone should sell them a bioplastic functionalized with gfp or something | 13:43 |
| Evoril | alri im looking for some good torrents | 13:43 |
| Evoril | collections or individual books | 13:44 |
| kanzure | lobotomies are easier than self-hypnosis | 13:44 |
| Evoril | all about nootropics,memory enhancement etc. | 13:44 |
| Evoril | soo? | 13:44 |
| Evoril | any recommendations? | 13:44 |
| Evoril | like a private tracker i might not have heard of yet or smth? | 13:44 |
| kanzure | hydrolases and methyltransferases look weird | 13:44 |
| kanzure | dehydrogenases too | 13:47 |
| kanzure | and there's a bunch of crab-shaped enzymes like thymidylate synthases http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore/explore.do?structureId=1VZE | 13:48 |
| kanzure | and space invaders http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore/explore.do?structureId=3JQR | 13:50 |
| kanzure | spinach aquaporin looks pretty different from human epithelial aquaporin http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/explore/explore.do?structureId=3CN5 | 13:58 |
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| Evoril | look im not a noob so i know how this works, anonimity is essential and its these type of questions are generally to be avoided so ill accept if u dont answer | 14:05 |
| Evoril | but which private trackers are the best | 14:05 |
| Evoril | for biohacking/brain-boosting type of content? | 14:05 |
| Evoril | the ones im active on have verly little on the subject | 14:05 |
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| archels | we are not unwilling to answer | 14:15 |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v510/n7503/full/nature13404.html | 14:15 |
| kanzure | .title | 14:15 |
| yoleaux | Accurate design of co-assembling multi-component protein nanomaterials : Nature : Nature Publishing Group | 14:15 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnature13404 | 14:15 |
| kanzure | "Here we report a computational method for designing protein nanomaterials in which multiple copies of two distinct subunits co-assemble into a specific architecture. We use the method to design five 24-subunit cage-like protein nanomaterials in two distinct symmetric architectures and experimentally demonstrate that their structures are in close agreement with the computational design models. The accuracy of the method and the number ... | 14:16 |
| kanzure | ... and variety of two-component materials that it makes accessible suggest a route to the construction of functional protein nanomaterials tailored to specific applications." | 14:16 |
| archels | Evoril: there are some repositories related to bootstrapping modern society... never really come across anything close to what you're asking for | 14:16 |
| archels | I mean, kanzure hosts some PDFs, I host some PDFs... but that's probably going to be very underwhelming | 14:17 |
| kanzure | the best source of biohacking information are scientific journals | 14:17 |
| kanzure | also: i have now visually inspected the vast majority of all known proteins with more than 300 residues | 14:18 |
| * kanzure folds up and dies | 14:18 | |
| archels | league; out of | 14:18 |
| archels | not everyone has a level 3 biohazard lab in their garage | 14:19 |
| kanzure | you don't need a biohazard lab to read papers | 14:19 |
| archels | reading is boring. what about the doing part | 14:19 |
| kanzure | i'm gonna go find some food. looking at all those proteins has made me hungry. | 14:19 |
| archels | sounds good | 14:20 |
| nmz787 | there are special biohacking torrent trackers? news to me! | 14:20 |
| Evoril | im a first year biopharmacuticals undergrad | 14:20 |
| Evoril | how can i contribute? | 14:21 |
| nmz787 | do you know anything about protein catalytics? | 14:22 |
| nmz787 | active site design would be a hit here | 14:22 |
| nmz787 | or are you more of an enzyme hunter? | 14:22 |
| Evoril | well | 14:22 |
| nmz787 | or biologics extraction/purification? | 14:22 |
| Evoril | as i said | 14:22 |
| Evoril | first year undergrad only | 14:23 |
| nmz787 | or actually working toward a tech in a pharmacy? | 14:23 |
| nmz787 | *toward being a tech | 14:23 |
| Evoril | so am a bit limited in terms of scientific expertise | 14:23 |
| nmz787 | like you started 3/4 months ago? | 14:23 |
| nmz787 | or you've already completed a year? | 14:23 |
| Evoril | but will gladly participate in above mentioned projects | 14:23 |
| Evoril | no | 14:23 |
| Evoril | just started in september | 14:23 |
| Evoril | but i am highly devoted to chem/bio | 14:24 |
| Evoril | do lots of extra study on my own | 14:24 |
| nmz787 | by that time in my biotech program I think I new I wanted a 'genome compiler' device | 14:24 |
| Evoril | and im a fast learner | 14:24 |
| nmz787 | but I didn't know much | 14:24 |
| nmz787 | just check out diyhpl.us | 14:25 |
| nmz787 | if you spend a good hour there scanning you can get an overview of what's available here | 14:25 |
| Evoril | i was thinking about genetic sequencing | 14:25 |
| nmz787 | there are a bunch of pdfs and books | 14:25 |
| Evoril | so would do postgrad bioinformatics | 14:25 |
| poppingtonic | see igem.org | 14:25 |
| Evoril | or post grad medicinal chemistry | 14:25 |
| Evoril | not sure yet but still have 3 more years to decide :) | 14:26 |
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| nmz787 | no one really likes degrees in here, though we immensely value education, self or institutional. We mainly care about focus. | 14:26 |
| nmz787 | I think. | 14:26 |
| nmz787 | :) | 14:26 |
| nmz787 | I wanted to drop out during my first quarter of school, and now with 2 classes left, I feel pretty much the same | 14:28 |
| nmz787 | 6 years later | 14:28 |
| nmz787 | :P | 14:28 |
| Evoril | ok so the communitys primary focus is on what? research or enhancing metabolism/cognitive skills for personal 'pleasure'?? | 14:30 |
| nmz787 | 'advancing' humanity | 14:31 |
| catern | hacking! the hacker spirit! | 14:31 |
| nmz787 | we basically talk about all forms of science, tech, math | 14:31 |
| Evoril | yeah, well you are responsible for your studies, you won't become an expert just bc you attend college | 14:31 |
| Evoril | and like i said, i do lots of self-teaching | 14:31 |
| Evoril | memorizing structural formulas from the rubber bible is my idea of fun&relaxation xd :D:D | 14:33 |
| nmz787 | I am working on lab-on-a-chip stuff, always looking towards DNA synthesis, but doing lots of stuff from the ground up, so there are plenty of 'stepping stone' projects. | 14:34 |
| Evoril | ok lets start w/ smth simple ok? :) | 14:35 |
| Evoril | gimme an assignment all ill get back to you when its completed :) | 14:36 |
| kanzure | nmz787: instead of saying humanity just link to http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration | 14:40 |
| kanzure | humanity is highly ambiguous and usually made up of rude automatons | 14:41 |
| kanzure | Evoril: i need a cheap design for a ct scanner | 14:42 |
| nmz787 | check out this paper and try to figure out if any of the promoters that were up/down regulated are unique and potentially useful for being hacked into turning on some other gene, say GFP... so that when the organism is pulsed with electricty it starts making GFP. http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Diversity_of_promoter_elements_in_a_Geobacter_sulfurreducens_mutant_adapted_to_disruption_in_electron_transfer.pdf | 14:42 |
| nmz787 | Evoril: ^ | 14:42 |
| kanzure | igem already did that | 14:42 |
| kanzure | really what you need is that function in a single protein | 14:43 |
| nmz787 | where? | 14:46 |
| nmz787 | igem? | 14:46 |
| kanzure | one of the 2014 projects http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/projects/#igem-2014 | 14:47 |
| Evoril | already done? still do it regardless (as a first time test of my performance) or do smth else instead? | 14:47 |
| nmz787 | I don't think it was done, looking now | 14:48 |
| kanzure | i forget which word it was tagged under | 14:48 |
| nmz787 | google shows this http://2009.igem.org/Team:Missouri_Miners/Project and this http://2010.igem.org/Team:Missouri_Miners/Project and http://web.mst.edu/~igem/projects.htm | 14:50 |
| kanzure | right, missouri miners have been doing similar things for a few years now | 14:50 |
| kanzure | but their 2014 project seems unrelated <li><a href="http://2014.igem.org/Team:Missouri_Miners">nitrogen oxide fixation and conversion to ammonia</a></li> | 14:50 |
| kanzure | <li><a href="http://2008.igem.org/Team:Missouri_Miners/Project">yeast sensor of ethanol</a></li> | 14:50 |
| kanzure | <li><a href="http://2011.igem.org/Team:Missouri_Miners/Project">bacterial glucose sensor</a></li> | 14:50 |
| kanzure | <li><a href="http://2012.igem.org/Team:Missouri_Miners/Project">anchoring proteins to cell surface</a></li> | 14:50 |
| nmz787 | I think you could do what I said largely in-silico (aka reading and using the online tools) | 14:50 |
| nmz787 | anyway, g2g help a farmer load hay into a trailer | 14:51 |
| nmz787 | lata | 14:52 |
| Evoril | ok so do it or not? | 14:59 |
| kanzure | do whatever you want | 15:04 |
| fenn | go fighting doctors, rah rah rah | 15:05 |
| juri_ | completed my talk at the CCC. | 15:06 |
| Evoril | ok will get to in the morning | 15:06 |
| fenn | juri_ you should be schmoozing | 15:06 |
| fenn | schmooze damn you, schmooze like your life depended on it! | 15:06 |
| juri_ | i'm hanging with reprap folks. | 15:07 |
| kanzure | you should go find petertodd and absorb his powers | 15:09 |
| kanzure | nsh is also there | 15:09 |
| kanzure | you should go find nsh | 15:09 |
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| kanzure | fenn: thoughts about the ribosome/tRNA scheme for protein synthesis? | 15:13 |
| kanzure | also extropy-chat recommended this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Zeus_Inc. | 15:14 |
| poppingtonic | yorick should be there too | 15:15 |
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| poppingtonic | Dr. Zeus seems like an engaging story/universe. | 15:19 |
| poppingtonic | to the Library! | 15:19 |
| kanzure | ehh, i predict a stereotypical annoying ending about ai tautology stuff | 15:20 |
| kanzure | this alone makes it worth not reading | 15:20 |
| poppingtonic | did you read Diaspora? | 15:23 |
| kanzure | a very long time ago | 15:24 |
| kanzure | maybe around 2001 | 15:24 |
| kanzure | was this the one that began with the long sequence of mind maps and random chance? | 15:24 |
| kanzure | ah yes "Diaspora begins with a description of "orphanogenesis", the birthing of a citizen without any ancestors (most citizens descend from fleshers uploaded at some point), and the subsequent upbringing of the newborn Yatima within Konishi polis. Yatima matures within a few real-time days, because citizens' subjective time runs about 800 times as rapidly as flesher and gleisner time. Early on, Yatima and a friend, Inoshiro, use ... | 15:25 |
| kanzure | ... abandoned gleisner bodies to visit a Bridger colony near the ruins of Atlanta on Earth." | 15:25 |
| Evoril | ok gtg | 15:25 |
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| poppingtonic | no, it started with the birth of an AI. Orphanogenesis was the first chapter's title. | 15:25 |
| Evoril | will be back once i sorted out those promoters (which were already done by someone else but whatever) :) | 15:26 |
| Evoril | take care | 15:26 |
| poppingtonic | I think the "random chance" one was Schild's Ladder | 15:27 |
| kanzure | "Twenty-thousand years in the future, Cass, a humanoid physicist from Earth, travels to Mimosa orbital station and begins a series of experiments to test the extremities of the fictitious Sarumpaet rules, a set of fundamental equations in "Quantum Graph Theory," which holds that physical existence is a manifestation of complex constructions of mathematical graphs. However, the experiments unexpectedly create a bubble of something more ... | 15:28 |
| kanzure | ... stable than ordinary vacuum, dubbed novo-vacuum, that expands outward at half the speed of light as ordinary vacuum collapses to this new state at the border, hinting at more general laws beyond the Sarumpaet rules. The local population is forced to flee to ever more distant star systems to escape the steadily approaching border, but since the expansion never slows, it is just a matter of time before the novo-vacuum encompasses any ... | 15:28 |
| kanzure | ... given region within the Local Group (and ultimately the whole universe)." | 15:28 |
| kanzure | hmm. no, i didn't read this one back then. | 15:28 |
| kanzure | the thing i was remembering was definitely orphanogenesis. | 15:28 |
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| kanzure | poppingtonic: you have seen orionsarm right? | 15:31 |
| poppingtonic | No. | 15:31 |
| kanzure | http://orionsarm.com/ | 15:32 |
| kanzure | this was a scifi world building group originally started by a few transhumanists including anders sandberg | 15:32 |
| kanzure | they started with a somewhat strict (although in my opinion, lax) set of rules for what gets to be included | 15:32 |
| kanzure | and then they pillaged basically everything from existing scifi and various as-of-yet(at the time) unused stuff like from forward and freitas and stuff | 15:33 |
| poppingtonic | cool | 15:33 |
| poppingtonic | goodness they have a 'geek code' | 15:37 |
| catern | excellent | 15:38 |
| poppingtonic | :D | 15:39 |
| kanzure | i'd suggest hiring a scifi author to go through hplusroadmap logs but at this point there's very few authors i don't have an immune reaction to | 15:45 |
| kanzure | let's hire greg egan | 15:45 |
| poppingtonic | ^ | 15:46 |
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| kanzure | http://gregegan.customer.netspace.net.au/ | 15:48 |
| kanzure | hmm. | 15:48 |
| kanzure | gregegan@gregegan.net | 15:49 |
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| kanzure | "Hat-throwing fungi fire their spore capsules up to 2m,[31] and the cannonball fungi of the genus Sphaerobolus, such as S. stellatus, the Artillery Fungus can throw sticky spore sacs up to 6 m horizontally.[32][33] This species is phototropic, and propels spores towards the nearest source of direct or reflected light, like the sides of brightly colored houses.[34]" | 16:06 |
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| fenn | i don't get the point of doing cell-free protein synthesis | 16:15 |
| fenn | you have to produce, purify, and assemble a bunch of stuff that any cell would do on its own | 16:16 |
| fenn | you have to add linear amounts of bio-reagents vs product, whereas any cell culture reproduces exponentially | 16:17 |
| kanzure | "CFPS has many advantages over the traditional in-vivo synthesis of proteins. Most notably, a cell free reaction, including extract preparation, usually takes 1 –2 days, whereas in-vivo protein expression may take 1–2 weeks. (Carlson ED, et al.)" | 16:21 |
| kanzure | "Cell-free protein synthesis (also called in-vitro protein synthesis or abbreviated CFPS), is the production of protein using biological machinery without the use of living cells. The in-vitro protein synthesis environment is not constrained by a cell wall or homeostasis conditions necessary to maintain cell viability. Thus CFPS enables direct access and control of the translation environment which is advantageous for a number of ... | 16:21 |
| kanzure | ... applications including optimization of protein production, optimization of protein complexes, to study protein synthesis, incorporating non-natural amino acids, high-throughput screens, and synthetic biology." | 16:21 |
| kanzure | "CFPS is an open reaction. The lack of cell wall allows direct manipulation of the chemical environment. Samples are easily taken, concentrations optimized, and the reaction can be monitored. In contrast, once DNA is inserted into live cells, the reaction cannot be accessed until it is over and the cells are lysed." (meh this is a lie) | 16:21 |
| kanzure | toxicity is an okay claim | 16:21 |
| kanzure | "A major application of CFPS is incorporation of non-natural amino acids into protein structures" but this works in vivo so this is not valid | 16:21 |
| fenn | cells can secrete proteins with certain tags | 16:22 |
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| fenn | i dont see the point of incorporating non-natural amino acids | 16:22 |
| fenn | also you can do this in a cell too | 16:23 |
| kanzure | one major reason is to increase the available types of mutations | 16:23 |
| kanzure | yes you can definitely do nonnatural amino acids in vivo | 16:23 |
| fenn | ok but then you lose the ability to incorporate this protein into a cell culture | 16:23 |
| fenn | so it's going to be super duper expensive forever | 16:23 |
| fenn | gah don't listen to me, nevermind | 16:24 |
| fenn | my brain is running at a sentence and a half behind | 16:24 |
| kanzure | just change your frequency | 16:24 |
| * fenn hums a D minor chord | 16:25 | |
| kanzure | anywho cell culture scale-up sounds like a valid claim to me | 16:26 |
| fenn | something about aptamers and rna-bound proteins | 16:26 |
| fenn | why can't people just reverse engineer the protein sequence to optimize proteins for whatever | 16:27 |
| kanzure | did you previously know about cell-free protein synthesis? | 16:27 |
| fenn | vaguely | 16:27 |
| kanzure | protein optimization is hard yo | 16:27 |
| kanzure | that's usually left for directed engineering projects | 16:27 |
| fenn | you still need to get your ribosomes from somewhere, so it's not really "cell free" | 16:27 |
| kanzure | and then you look at the results and scratch your head when you compare it to the original protein sequence and protein structure | 16:27 |
| kanzure | whoops i meant directed evolution | 16:28 |
| fenn | evolutionary engineering | 16:28 |
| kanzure | utility function spamming | 16:28 |
| fenn | spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam | 16:29 |
| fenn | .py while(1): print "spam" | 16:29 |
| kanzure | i had no idea that merrifield's chemical peptide synthesis was limited (by yield of each coupling reaction?) to ~70 amino acid residues | 16:30 |
| kanzure | that's very short | 16:30 |
| yoleaux | <html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;charset=utf-8"><title>500 Server Error</title></head><body text=#000000 bgcolor=#ffffff><h1>Error: Server Error</h1><h2>The server encountered an error and could not complete your request.<p>Please try again in 30 seconds.</h2><h2></h2></body></html> | 16:30 |
| kanzure | essentially both oligo synthesis and peptide synthesis is limited to very short things | 16:31 |
| kanzure | so my ribosome/tRNA method might work for arbitrarily long sequences | 16:31 |
| kanzure | the downside is that it is only a protein, and not a genome | 16:31 |
| kanzure | i bet chemical peptide synthesis is also limited because of folding thta might happen in the reverse direction that breaks the sort of folding that usually happens | 16:33 |
| kanzure | when amino acid chains are extruded out of the butt pore of a ribosome | 16:34 |
| kanzure | this would be especially useful if we had ideas for rational protein engineering that required very long sequences that are too expensive to make with oligo synthesis + ligations or w/e | 16:39 |
| yashgaroth | ehh you can usually refold it, the problem is purifying out a protein from a mixture of other proteins that look extremely similar minus one amino acid | 16:39 |
| kanzure | talking about why cell-free is yuseful? | 16:40 |
| yashgaroth | why chemical synthesis isn't, so I suppose yes | 16:40 |
| yashgaroth | gotta say I mostly agree with fenn, cell-free of any type is mostly useful for either toxic proteins or niche directed evolution/array stuff | 16:41 |
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| yashgaroth | I just find the aaaggg solution very elegant, assuming you can get a tolerant ribosome | 16:42 |
| yashgaroth | also non-natural amino acids, which is doable in vivo but a lot easier cell-free; but that's a solution without a problem for now | 16:43 |
| kanzure | we have no way of writing long synthetic sequences, cell-free sounds like the only way to me | 16:45 |
| kanzure | i mean, gibson assembly i guess | 16:45 |
| kanzure | and ligation stuff | 16:45 |
| kanzure | but that feels like cheating for some reason | 16:46 |
| kanzure | oh right, you need 20-40 bp overlaps on both sides, and 80 bp is already like 80% of your available space | 16:47 |
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| kanzure | http://www.csbio.com/peptide-synthesizers/ | 16:49 |
| kanzure | "and our industrial scale systems (CS936) can handle syntheses >5.0 mol" | 16:49 |
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| yashgaroth | agh ffs | 16:51 |
| kanzure | i was just complaining about gibson assembly for some reason | 16:52 |
| yashgaroth | hey what happened to the logs btw | 16:52 |
| kanzure | i forgot how to use dtach and i've been stuck in a staring contest with jrayhawk for like three weeks | 16:52 |
| kanzure | i guess i just lost | 16:53 |
| yashgaroth | alrighty | 16:53 |
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| -!- kanzure changed the topic of ##hplusroadmap to: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by george church and the NRA, banned by the Federal Death Administration (4 times) | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | http://diyhpl.us/wiki | 16:56 | |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by kanzure | 16:56 | |
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| yashgaroth | yay | 17:03 |
| fenn | does it make sense to add logs for 11-26 to 12-26 | 17:04 |
| kanzure | i'm fixing that | 17:04 |
| fenn | tales from the dark side: when logs go bad | 17:05 |
| fenn | stories to scare children with | 17:06 |
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| yorick | poppingtonic: true, but who are you? | 17:09 |
| kanzure | lazyweb wins https://github.com/kaiju/miscellany/blob/master/log2logdir.py | 17:09 |
| yorick | poppingtonic: or did you find it because of the irc channel? | 17:09 |
| poppingtonic | yes. | 17:10 |
| fenn | heath eudoxia "openbay" is missing torrent descriptions, comments, file lists, quality votes, date uploaded, etc etc etc which turn out to be pretty important | 17:14 |
| heath | i never read the comments | 17:15 |
| heath | mostly just look at the pics and number of seeders | 17:15 |
| fenn | there's a "rich.xml" from 2013 which i believe has this stuff, but i haven't been brave enough to unzip it as i estimate the size is around 35GB | 17:15 |
| heath | i usually only use torrenting for videos | 17:15 |
| heath | i once used it at oink and what.cd as well at some point | 17:16 |
| fenn | description is still pretty important because people suck at naming things | 17:16 |
| heath | that's true | 17:16 |
| --- Log opened Sat Dec 27 17:27:05 2014 | ||
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| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by george church and the NRA, banned by the Federal Death Administration (4 times) | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | http://diyhpl.us/wiki | 17:27 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] [Sat Dec 27 16:56:22 2014] | 17:27 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 17:27 | |
| [ altersid_] [ comma8 ] [ FAMAS ] [ kenju254 ] [ Qfwfq ] [ ThomasEgi ] | 17:27 | |
| [ andytoshi] [ crescendo ] [ fenn ] [ kragen ] [ rigel ] [ TMA ] | 17:27 | |
| [ archels ] [ cuba_ ] [ gnusha ] [ maaku ] [ rk[ohio] ] [ Urchin ] | 17:27 | |
| [ augur ] [ Daeken ] [ heath ] [ nArkos_ ] [ saurik ] [ Viper168 ] | 17:27 | |
| [ balrog ] [ delinquentme] [ helleshin] [ nickjohnson ] [ sheena2 ] [ Vutral ] | 17:27 | |
| [ bbrittain] [ docl ] [ HEx1 ] [ night ] [ shubhamg_ ] [ yashgaroth] | 17:27 | |
| [ bkero ] [ DonnchaC_ ] [ ivan` ] [ nmz787 ] [ sivoais ] [ yoleaux ] | 17:27 | |
| [ blueskin ] [ dpk ] [ JayDugger] [ nsh ] [ smeaaagle ] [ yorick ] | 17:27 | |
| [ BobaMa ] [ drazak ] [ JonTitor ] [ paperbot ] [ soylentbomb] | 17:27 | |
| [ Boscop ] [ drewbot ] [ jrayhawk_] [ ParahSailin ] [ strages ] | 17:27 | |
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| [ catern ] [ ebowden ] [ juul ] [ poohbear ] [ streety ] | 17:27 | |
| [ cluckj ] [ EnabrinTain ] [ kanzure ] [ poppingtonic] [ superkuh ] | 17:27 | |
| -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 73 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 73 normal] | 17:27 | |
| -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 | 17:27 | |
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| kanzure | you will just have to live without those 15 minutes of logs | 17:27 |
| fenn | good, now heath won't be able to guilt me into vitrifying him | 17:28 |
| fenn | there's also http://hyse.org/irssi-log-merge/ but local time zones would probably mess everything up | 17:29 |
| * heath submits a patch to the log file | 17:29 | |
| kanzure | patching was what went wrong 18 minutes ago in the first place | 17:29 |
| kanzure | patch reected | 17:29 |
| kanzure | *rejected | 17:29 |
| kanzure | unless it's for some day other than today | 17:29 |
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| kanzure | oh... http://gnusha.org/logs/split_log.py | 17:31 |
| kanzure | that's certainly a simple way to do that | 17:31 |
| kanzure | compare to https://raw.githubusercontent.com/kaiju/miscellany/master/log2logdir.py | 17:31 |
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| fenn | eudoxia: logs are back up so you can go away now :P | 17:40 |
| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8803389 | 17:40 |
| yoleaux | Ask HN: How to use small chunks of time productively | Hacker News | 17:40 |
| eudoxia | fenn: oh cool, didn't notice | 17:40 |
| kanzure | i think there are some limits on task breakup but this is hard to describe | 17:40 |
| kanzure | ultimately you are always doing things that must be broken down into motor actions | 17:41 |
| kanzure | but the amount of effort to write down and serialize some tasks surely must be greater than execution effort | 17:41 |
| fenn | isn't "product manager" the job description of "that jackass who handles all the little things that come up and have to be dealt with, so i don't have to" | 17:42 |
| kanzure | one of the posters describes his method of breaking everything up into 5 minute tasks | 17:42 |
| kanzure | naturally, all of the interesting stuff is in his backlog since he can't figure out how to split those up | 17:42 |
| kanzure | effort-of-breaking-task-up exceeding task-execution-effort or something | 17:45 |
| kanzure | that must be a threshold that exists somewhere | 17:45 |
| fenn | 200% overhead is still better than 0% progress | 17:46 |
| kanzure | and thus fenn decided to vote big government | 17:46 |
| fenn | go fightin bureaucrats, rah rah rah! | 17:47 |
| fenn | whats all this bitcoin bowl stuff about | 17:47 |
| kanzure | bitpay sponsored a football game | 17:47 |
| fenn | is it like an hour long advertisement for... bitcoin? | 17:47 |
| fenn | do they even play football in st. petersberg? | 17:48 |
| kanzure | there is a giant indoor stadium there | 17:48 |
| kanzure | this was florida not russia | 17:48 |
| fenn | oh! | 17:48 |
| fenn | important distinction | 17:48 |
| eudoxia | 20:39 < kanzure> i bet alcor has corny videos that go like, "Hi, I'm Max More, and today I am going to show you emergency procedures for maintaining dry ice. In the event that this facility has been abandoned, please see the containers to your right..." | 17:48 |
| eudoxia | i think during mike darwin's tenure they had some kind of prepper basement | 17:48 |
| fenn | i was picturing guys in furry hats in the stands trying to use their smartphones with leather gloves | 17:49 |
| kanzure | didn't help that their commercials had eastern block thugs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm7wgmwKiAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uA4KO2EEBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWJDCLpOnf0 | 17:50 |
| fenn | "hotdogs, get yer hotdogskis, only 1,000,000 satoshis" | 17:50 |
| kanzure | from the first one you might think russia | 17:50 |
| kanzure | anyway... https://github.com/bitpay | 17:51 |
| fenn | it's good that they are publishing open source software | 17:53 |
| kanzure | yep | 17:54 |
| kanzure | also they have jgarzik (linux kernel monkey) | 17:54 |
| fenn | copay-cola https://raw.githubusercontent.com/marianorod/copay-brand/master/copay-logo-full-negative.png | 17:55 |
| kanzure | "At halftime of the #BitcoinBowl, ESPN will run down all the scores and the latest on Ben Lawsky's BitLicense." | 17:58 |
| fenn | i thought that was a joke | 17:58 |
| kanzure | no idea, i didn't watch | 17:59 |
| fenn | so are gift cards "virtual currency" | 18:01 |
| fenn | it's really weird that the state of new york uses the phrase "Fiat Currency" | 18:01 |
| kanzure | depends on what your definition of "is" is | 18:02 |
| fenn | thank you, bill clinton | 18:02 |
| kanzure | no really... | 18:03 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-134-41-185.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 18:03 | |
| kanzure | further complications include things like "digital gift cards" and "physical-only gift cards through various mastercard/visa programs" | 18:03 |
| kanzure | usually the physical-only gift cards do not tell you enough information for online spending | 18:04 |
| kanzure | i guess you could look up gyft | 18:04 |
| fenn | you can sell physical gift cards | 18:04 |
| fenn | there's a 15% fee or something | 18:04 |
| kanzure | .wik virtual currency | 18:04 |
| yoleaux | "A virtual currency or virtual money has been defined in 2012 by the European Central Bank as "a type of unregulated, digital money, which is issued and usually controlled by its developers, and used and accepted among the members of a specific virtual community.":13" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_currency | 18:04 |
| fenn | actually it's like 15% if you just type the code in, and 10% if you physically mail the card to them | 18:05 |
| kanzure | "In 2013, Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), a bureau of the US Treasury defined virtual currency as "a medium of exchange that operates like a currency in some environments, but does not have all the attributes of real currency".[2] | 18:05 |
| kanzure | haha | 18:05 |
| kanzure | in other words.. nobody has any clue. | 18:05 |
| fenn | i was looking at this https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ben-lawsky-nydfs-reveal-proposed-bitlicense-regulations/ | 18:06 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/nydfs-bitlicense-lawsky-update/ | 18:06 |
| fenn | ugh i am having diybio self-castration flashbacks | 18:06 |
| fenn | who are these people that want to put everyone else in prison just for existing | 18:07 |
| kanzure | regulators | 18:07 |
| kanzure | incumbents | 18:08 |
| fenn | .wik ben lawsky | 18:08 |
| yoleaux | "Benjamin M. Lawsky (born April 14, 1970) is an American attorney and New York State's first Superintendent of Financial Services and former Acting Superintendent of Banks." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Lawsky | 18:08 |
| kanzure | once you achieve incumbency, switching strategies to regulatory capture is very rewarding | 18:08 |
| fenn | i think a good principle is to assume freedom/permission unless it has been specifically removed (and for good reason) | 18:09 |
| fenn | this "everyone needs a license" culture is bullshit | 18:09 |
| kanzure | so a few bitcoiners elsewhere have recently informed me that one of the reasons that money transmitter licenses happen is because regulators and government agencies often demand the ability to directly meddle with your internal ledger | 18:10 |
| catern | copyleft | 18:10 |
| catern | (oh, you're not talking about software licenses) | 18:10 |
| kanzure | heh | 18:10 |
| catern | let's extend copyleft to business licenses | 18:10 |
| kanzure | these licenses are different | 18:11 |
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| fenn | copyright also applies; you used to have to apply for a copyright, and the default was permissiveness. now it's all locked away even if you don't know who owns the automatically granted copyright | 18:11 |
| fenn | for example you are not legally allowed to copy logs with the words i am typing in right now | 18:11 |
| kanzure | ah right public performance at least | 18:12 |
| fenn | (well actually i think i put all future posts by me in public domain a couple years ago) | 18:12 |
| catern | you can probably repudiate that | 18:12 |
| fenn | it would be meaningless if i could | 18:12 |
| fenn | "no take-backsies" | 18:13 |
| fenn | kanzure: i dont get it; meddle with your ledger? is this like defining pi=3 again? | 18:13 |
| kanzure | er, i believe that exact example was used | 18:13 |
| fenn | if you've spent the money it's gone | 18:13 |
| kanzure | haha no | 18:14 |
| fenn | they can't just edit the ledger and make it reappear | 18:14 |
| kanzure | ledger can say anything | 18:14 |
| fenn | huh? | 18:14 |
| kanzure | *most ledgers can say anything | 18:14 |
| fenn | well then it's just wrong | 18:14 |
| kanzure | of course it's wrong | 18:14 |
| fenn | okay | 18:14 |
| fenn | "government votes to do the wrong thing" | 18:14 |
| * kanzure dumps the related logs | 18:14 | |
| fenn | i wonder what the FBI is doing with all their "seized bitcoins" | 18:16 |
| kanzure | they sold them to tim draper and second market | 18:16 |
| fenn | was there like an auction, with a pallet of bitcoins | 18:17 |
| kanzure | https://blockchain.info/tx/9e95c3c3c96f57527cdc649550bf8e92892f7651f718d846033798aee333b0c3 | 18:17 |
| kanzure | and yes, http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/dpr-bitcoins/ | 18:17 |
| fenn | i bet in 20 years they are going to be regretting that decision | 18:19 |
| kanzure | i believe they were legally required to sell them or something | 18:19 |
| fenn | nah it's "evidence" | 18:19 |
| kanzure | as for the "pi = 3" stuff, see http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/2014-12-21.log | 18:20 |
| kanzure | 12:45 < petertodd> kanzure: see, I'm saying that there are incentives to make centralized ledgers *insecure* even within conventional finance | 18:20 |
| kanzure | 12:46 < petertodd> yeah, and the smartest regulators get that security lets you bypass the need for identity | 18:20 |
| kanzure | 12:46 < petertodd> gmaxwell: also, note that "unbounded reversability" is also coupled with a desire to make it possible for that reversibility to be *secret* | 18:20 |
| kanzure | 12:51 < petertodd> nsh: it's not that level of conspiracy stuff - you literally have to be able to accomodate courts ordering you to remove things off your ledgers in secret, among many other crazy requirements | 18:21 |
| fenn | i dont understand why there isnt more public outcry about all this secret law stuff | 18:22 |
| fenn | how can you even pretend to have a democracy when you dont even know what the law is, in principle | 18:22 |
| kanzure | also, didn't silent circle stop updating their secret court order canary the other day | 18:22 |
| fenn | "i pledge of allegiance, to honor the constitution and all the secret laws i don't know about" | 18:22 |
| kanzure | https://canary.silentcircle.com/ | 18:23 |
| kanzure | ah they updated on december 25 | 18:23 |
| kanzure | for a few days before they were 3 weeks late | 18:23 |
| kanzure | "Silent Circle LLC will also make available, weekly, a "warrant canary"" | 18:23 |
| fenn | what if they force you to say "i'm turning off this canary because it's a lot of work" | 18:23 |
| kanzure | they could probably argue that it would cause lots of harm to their core business, etc | 18:24 |
| fenn | or just force you to continue "business as usual" which includes updating the canary | 18:24 |
| kanzure | i don't actually see any message that they have not received a warrant on this page | 18:26 |
| fenn | wtf they shut down their encrypted email service because " it was not possible to sufficiently secure email data." | 18:26 |
| fenn | that's pathetic | 18:26 |
| kanzure | well they had courts ordering them to not do that | 18:26 |
| kanzure | (because of edward snowden- i think this was suspected at first, and then it was revealed later?) | 18:26 |
| kanzure | i mean, they had courts ordering them to become less secure | 18:27 |
| fenn | right, if you look at the original source article it is because they didnt want to be forced to reveal keys or whatever | 18:27 |
| * fenn fixes wikipedia | 18:27 | |
| kanzure | there were multiple things being said back and forth, hard for me to reconstruct the timeline correctly | 18:28 |
| kanzure | the government was claiming that they only wanted headers from emails, and then later they wanted the private key, and silent circle was claiming they wanted the private key the whole time? something something | 18:28 |
| kanzure | where's mah spooks | 18:29 |
| fenn | Silent Circle said specifically that it hadn’t actually received any “subpoenas, warrants, security letters, or anything else by any government” before shutting down, which leads to the troubling conclusion that the threat of action alone was enough to take an option off the market. | 18:30 |
| fenn | all the spooks are in germany | 18:31 |
| kanzure | hm | 18:31 |
| fenn | wow that was literally the next day, after the lavabit shutdown | 18:36 |
| kanzure | they were pretty mad | 18:39 |
| fenn | Levison wrote that after being contacted by the FBI, he was subpoenaed to appear in federal court, and was forced to appear without legal representation because it was served on such short notice; in addition, as a third party, he had no right to representation, and was not allowed to ask anyone who was not an attorney to help find him one. He also wrote that in addition to being denied a hearing | 18:40 |
| fenn | regarding the warrant to obtain Lavabit's user information, he was held in contempt of court. The appellate court denied his appeal due to no objection, however, he wrote that because there had been no hearing, no objection could possibly have been raised. His contempt of court charge was also upheld on the ground that it was not disputed; similarly, he was unable to dispute the charge because | 18:40 |
| fenn | there had been no hearing to do it in. He also wrote that "the government argued that, since the 'inspection' of the data was to be carried out by a machine, they were exempt from the normal search-and-seizure protections of the Fourth Amendment." | 18:40 |
| fenn | this is straight out of a kafka story | 18:41 |
| fenn | The court records show that the FBI sought Lavabit's SSL private key. Levison objected saying that the key would allow the government to access communications by all 400,000 customers of Lavabit. He also offered to add code to his servers that would provide the information required just for the target of the order. The court rejected this offer since it would require the government to trust Mr. | 18:43 |
| fenn | Levison and stated that just because the government could access all customers' communication did not mean they would be legally permitted to do so. Lavabit was ordered to provide the SSL key in machine readable format by noon, August 5 or face a fine of $5000 per day. Levison closed down Lavabit 3 days later. | 18:43 |
| fenn | this "a machine did it" argument is pretty dangerous | 18:43 |
| fenn | "oops we blew up your house, but a drone did it so it's okay" | 18:44 |
| kanzure | oh right, the reason why gibson assembly isn't an answer is because it increases your costs dramatically | 18:48 |
| fenn | how's that | 18:49 |
| kanzure | at a milion pixes with that much overlap you get maybe 20-30 unique bp per pixel | 18:49 |
| nmz787 | fenn: up for finishing that laser etcher parts list? I really don't have an intuitive idea of what parts were missing... currently I think the easiest solution for lasers is an optical sled directly from a blu-ray drive... close working distance (around a millimeter) but the spot size is near diffraction limit and they're available. | 18:49 |
| kanzure | especially if you need 20 to 40 bp overlap per pixel | 18:49 |
| kanzure | *pixels | 18:49 |
| nmz787 | gibson doesn't seem too expensive | 18:49 |
| kanzure | at a million pixels you only get 20-30 bp per pixe | 18:49 |
| fenn | nmz787: i think the mandate for that laser etcher has long since expired; the original parameters were way too ambitious anyway | 18:49 |
| kanzure | so at most 30 million bp | 18:49 |
| nmz787 | fenn: what do you mean? I was looking at it a few nights ago and it seemed reasonable still | 18:50 |
| kanzure | *pixel | 18:50 |
| nmz787 | I even found a class paper that used the same rod | 18:50 |
| nmz787 | the threaded one | 18:50 |
| kanzure | it was superceded by dmd | 18:50 |
| nmz787 | so you chose well! | 18:50 |
| nmz787 | nah | 18:50 |
| fenn | nmz787: there's really no need to etch a 100mm x 100mm microfluidics chip, or whatever it was | 18:50 |
| nmz787 | no way | 18:50 |
| nmz787 | I just bought this 38mm x 38mm CNC laser etcher for $120 but you can't easily change the threaded rods or motors | 18:51 |
| nmz787 | also it would be useful for microscopy or something | 18:51 |
| nmz787 | you were only a few parts from it being complete i thought | 18:52 |
| nmz787 | something about pillow blocks maybe | 18:52 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: dmd was deprecated because of inter-pixel noise | 18:53 |
| nmz787 | we'd need a piezo vibrator to jiggle the stage with DMD to smooth out the inter-pixel dead zones | 18:54 |
| fenn | what's with cellphones and the camera lens sticking out | 18:55 |
| nmz787 | $5 rail to rail i2c DAC for controlling the laser sled focus http://www.adafruit.com/product/935 | 18:55 |
| nmz787 | I got an S4 Zoom for my dad a few weeks ago | 18:55 |
| nmz787 | it has a 10X optical zoom | 18:56 |
| nmz787 | http://axeetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/galaxy-s4-zoom_0.jpg | 18:56 |
| fenn | is that a camera or a phone | 18:56 |
| fenn | where's bill clinton | 18:57 |
| kanzure | neither, it's a computer | 18:57 |
| fenn | and korzybski | 18:57 |
| nmz787 | he has a nokia candybar tracfone now which is his, like, second cell phone ever | 18:58 |
| fenn | i like the design of the sony QX100, it's too bad sony had to be the first one to do it though... | 18:58 |
| nmz787 | yeah I think I read it wasn't as good | 18:59 |
| nmz787 | maybe something about dust? | 18:59 |
| fenn | dust? | 18:59 |
| kanzure | the other problem with gibson assembly is that it doesn't get the price down far enough anyway | 18:59 |
| fenn | the point of the QX10 and QX100 is they are just the lens and image sensor; all the UI stuff is an android app | 19:00 |
| fenn | this means the sensor is matched to the lens, and you never have "lens compatibility" issues | 19:00 |
| nmz787 | gibson is basically just cooperative ligation though | 19:01 |
| nmz787 | what sounds so expensive about that? | 19:01 |
| fenn | like nikon vs canon lens mount, what a stupid problem | 19:01 |
| kanzure | source material | 19:01 |
| kanzure | is what is expensive in this case | 19:01 |
| nmz787 | hmm, maybe I didn't see the QX100 before | 19:01 |
| nmz787 | hrmp | 19:01 |
| kanzure | moo | 19:02 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: I aim to have them right next to each other on the chip | 19:02 |
| fenn | the way you connect to it is kinda dumb; it acts like a wifi access point and you choose it from the phone as your internet, so you can't use the internet while using the lens | 19:03 |
| fenn | instead of bluetooth, which would actually make sense | 19:03 |
| nmz787 | oh | 19:03 |
| nmz787 | that's weird | 19:03 |
| nmz787 | wi-gig going forward maybe? | 19:04 |
| fenn | is that a thing | 19:04 |
| fenn | .wik wi-gig | 19:04 |
| kanzure | i am still upset about our differences in engineering estimation | 19:04 |
| yoleaux | "The Wireless Gigabit Alliance (WiGig) was a trade association that developed and promoted the adoption of multi-gigabit speed wireless communications technology operating over the unlicensed 60 GHz frequency band. The alliance was subsumed by the Wi-Fi Alliance in March 2013." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-gig | 19:04 |
| kanzure | also i have no idea what you are talking about re: "next to each other" | 19:04 |
| nmz787 | i saw a demo day with a bunch of stuff a few months ago | 19:04 |
| fenn | wouldnt 60GHz have line of sight issues | 19:04 |
| nmz787 | HD displays and such | 19:04 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 19:04 |
| nmz787 | but like in your livingroom or studio apt, no prob they suppose | 19:05 |
| fenn | a lot of new stuff has dual band wifi, so maybe one antenna can handle multiple connections on different bands | 19:05 |
| nmz787 | and for things like public high def multimonitor workstations | 19:06 |
| fenn | existing phones have no reason to do that though (at least according to the manufacturers that be) | 19:06 |
| nmz787 | where you bring your machine | 19:06 |
| fenn | is existing miracast not fast enough? | 19:06 |
| fenn | 802.11n is like 50MB/s | 19:07 |
| nmz787 | hmm, this qx100 might be good for self surgery of something you can't see well but can get your hands around | 19:07 |
| kanzure | "Panamanian biologist Aradio Rodaniche first reported the Pacific striped octopus in 1991 off the coast of Nicaragua, noting its strange behavior—living in groups of possibly up to 40, laying multiple egg clutches, and mating face-to-face and sucker-to-sucker. Most other octopus species, for instance, come together only to mate. But scientists didn't see another one of these curious octopuses for another 20 years, when Richard Ross, a ... | 19:07 |
| kanzure | ... biologist at the California Academy of Sciences, came across one in 2012. Through a commercial collector, he acquired several wild specimens to study in the lab." | 19:07 |
| nmz787 | or cutting your own hair | 19:07 |
| kanzure | commercial collector? | 19:07 |
| kanzure | also: 20 years is too long | 19:07 |
| kanzure | can't a dolphin be trained to find them or some shit? | 19:07 |
| fenn | nmz787: or taking selfies | 19:08 |
| nmz787 | fenn how many btc per hour of laser etcher work do you want? | 19:08 |
| fenn | what | 19:08 |
| nmz787 | do you have use for that? | 19:08 |
| fenn | i dont know what you're talking about | 19:08 |
| kanzure | usually when fenn disagrees he has a good reason | 19:08 |
| kanzure | paying him to do something he thinks is stupid is not a good plan | 19:08 |
| nmz787 | it doesn't seem stupid to me, and he seemed to understand what it needed | 19:09 |
| kanzure | yes but we've already established that you have bizarre engineering standards | 19:09 |
| kanzure | grumble grumble | 19:09 |
| nmz787 | so | 19:09 |
| nmz787 | :/ | 19:09 |
| nmz787 | why can | 19:10 |
| nmz787 | why can't i be me? | 19:10 |
| fenn | 1) i don't want to build a microfluidic dna synthesizer 2) a chip requried to do so wouldn't be nearly so big 3) microscope stages have adequate performance for the task 4) DMD masks are adequate for the task | 19:10 |
| kanzure | just because something does not seem stupid doesn't mean it's not stupid, obviously | 19:10 |
| nmz787 | $500 for a DIY stepper is not unreasonable | 19:10 |
| nmz787 | fenn DMD masks are not sufficient | 19:10 |
| nmz787 | I can show you the paper if you want | 19:11 |
| fenn | "interpixel noise" doesn't seem like a good excuse; you can blur the lines between pixels anyway | 19:11 |
| fenn | link plz | 19:11 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/Development%20of%20microfabrication%20technology%20with%20maskless%20photolithography%20device%20using%20LCD%20projector%20-%20Itoga%20-%202010.pdf | 19:13 |
| kanzure | probably that | 19:13 |
| kanzure | page 2 figure 2 | 19:13 |
| nmz787 | no that's not it | 19:14 |
| nmz787 | hold on | 19:14 |
| nmz787 | grep didn't work for me | 19:14 |
| fenn | kanzure: that's the answer to the problem he's proposing, not the problem | 19:14 |
| kanzure | whoops | 19:14 |
| nmz787 | well ok | 19:15 |
| nmz787 | if you reduce with a scope enough the DMD image | 19:15 |
| nmz787 | and over-represent the size of the minimum feature size you aim for with multiple pixels | 19:15 |
| nmz787 | then DMD works | 19:16 |
| fenn | yay | 19:16 |
| nmz787 | but you need to step around | 19:16 |
| nmz787 | but I still don't have a proceter to scope adapter | 19:16 |
| nmz787 | projector* | 19:16 |
| nmz787 | btc for that? | 19:16 |
| fenn | is like $50 on ebay | 19:16 |
| kanzure | he's going to mail you a pvc pipe with a passive aggressive sticky note or something | 19:17 |
| fenn | make sure it's a black pvc pipe | 19:17 |
| nmz787 | well I would like a share-able CAD for CNC or 3D printing | 19:17 |
| nmz787 | or CAD of the PVC pipe | 19:17 |
| nmz787 | I have the projector kanzure mailed me all ready to go except for a blue laser with focusable optics | 19:18 |
| nmz787 | that has been ready for like a year and a half | 19:18 |
| fenn | oh another thing to think about is using a cellphone screen as the light source | 19:19 |
| nmz787 | but I literally didn't know what to do to get it on my scope | 19:19 |
| fenn | it's slower but more obtainable | 19:19 |
| kanzure | there's something to be said for not encouraging nmz787 to be doing one-offs | 19:19 |
| nmz787 | I have an HD cellphone | 19:19 |
| fenn | well phones are mostly the same shape, and there's going to be some bodging no matter what shape it is | 19:20 |
| nmz787 | apparently a screen is around $50 on ebay | 19:20 |
| fenn | so you can design around a general phone shaped flat thing | 19:20 |
| kanzure | fenn: i meant for an overall engineering artifact | 19:20 |
| kanzure | "i bought this shit on ebay that you're never going to be able to find again" is not a good strategy | 19:20 |
| fenn | oh, hm | 19:20 |
| nmz787 | and I have o get mine replaced tomorrow, I am going to ask to keep the old screen (shattered the glass, though touch and pixels are all good and working) | 19:20 |
| fenn | i dont know how to deal with that problem | 19:20 |
| fenn | microscopes and projectors don't come in standard shapes and optics | 19:21 |
| kanzure | acme threaded stuff are a good example of an okay part | 19:21 |
| nmz787 | yes | 19:21 |
| kanzure | microscopes are highly standardized | 19:21 |
| kanzure | apparently they all come out of the same factory | 19:21 |
| fenn | dud there are a bazillion optics threads | 19:21 |
| kanzure | hrm | 19:21 |
| fenn | there's a guy who makes a living just making custom adapters for cameras and microscopes | 19:21 |
| kanzure | that's because of the camera side, right? | 19:22 |
| fenn | i doubt it | 19:22 |
| kanzure | unfortunate | 19:22 |
| fenn | i don't have a pile of microscopes to go check either | 19:22 |
| nmz787 | also cell phones aren't 405nm, and the cheap photoresist are often sensitive to 365nm | 19:22 |
| nmz787 | or as close to that as possible | 19:22 |
| fenn | Royal Microscopical Society (RMS) thread, also known as society thread, is a special 0.8" diameter x 36 thread-per-inch (tpi) Whitworth thread form used for microscope objective lenses. | 19:23 |
| fenn | yuck | 19:23 |
| nmz787 | a CNC with laser is more standard I think | 19:23 |
| fenn | what is the goal here again? | 19:23 |
| kanzure | $1/genome | 19:24 |
| nmz787 | fenn: I bought this, just CD-ROM drives I think http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Laser-200-250mW-Engraving-Machine-DIY-Carving-Logo-Picture-Marking-Printer/261591526091 | 19:24 |
| fenn | kanzure: synthesis? | 19:24 |
| kanzure | custom genomes | 19:24 |
| kanzure | yes | 19:24 |
| nmz787 | I am thinking I can make a manifold for macro to micro, which can interface with a silicon chip with nanochannel and electrodes. | 19:24 |
| nmz787 | or other substrate | 19:25 |
| kanzure | but also, a general method of cheaply making microfluidic devices would be useful | 19:25 |
| nmz787 | but I read PDMS isn't easy to add electrodes to | 19:25 |
| kanzure | and a dmd setup would be useful for planar "micro"electronics | 19:25 |
| nmz787 | I was thinking maybe using DNA to form DNA-sized nanochannels | 19:25 |
| nmz787 | because you could "etch" it somewhat afterward with acid/base | 19:26 |
| fenn | prettyworthshop needs a higher resolution test pattern and image of suchlike | 19:26 |
| nmz787 | yeah I hope their 0.01mm number is near true | 19:27 |
| nmz787 | or maybe that is with microstepping | 19:27 |
| nmz787 | grbl seems configurable too | 19:27 |
| fenn | a circle would be good to check for backlash, parallel lines to check repeatability, so a spiral would be a good compromise | 19:27 |
| fenn | you know there's a difference between accuracy and "output resolution" right | 19:28 |
| fenn | huh i didnt expect that to be made in shenzhen | 19:28 |
| nmz787 | https://github.com/grbl/grbl/blob/615093ccd2a9bd63f1ecd29c464f032000f5e626/defaults.h#L50 | 19:29 |
| fenn | it's all open source hardware modules | 19:29 |
| nmz787 | I think that is the relevant line for resolution | 19:29 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 19:30 |
| nmz787 | the other option was some weird possibly windows only software | 19:30 |
| fenn | nmz787: accuracy depends on the entire machine, from positioning mechanics to optics to CAM software | 19:32 |
| fenn | output resolution is just an arbitrary number | 19:32 |
| nmz787 | fenn: fig 5 http://www.intelligentmp.com/Downloads/Technical%20Papers/SF-100%20Greyscale%20Paper.pdf | 19:34 |
| fenn | hmm these projectors are so cheap now it might even make sense to just use them as monitors | 19:36 |
| fenn | it would be cool to have a fiber optic heliostat that pipes light through an lcd projector playing some content-free pictures like 'sunrise earth' | 19:38 |
| fenn | er s/lcd/dlp/ | 19:38 |
| nmz787 | but then there is this paper, which is almost an order of magnitude in scale, so if the optical system didn't change, the features are over-represented (and they also don't show AFM here) http://www.intelligentmp.com/Downloads/Technical%20Papers/3D%20Structures%20Patterning%20In%20SU8.pdf | 19:39 |
| fenn | nmz787: was i supposed to get something out of this paper | 19:40 |
| kanzure | https://www.tonmo.com/community/threads/larger-pacific-striped-octopus.16101/ | 19:41 |
| kanzure | "Two San Francisco Bay Area scientists, Dr. Roy Caldwell of UC Berkeley and Richard Ross of the Steinhart Aquarium in the California Academy of Sciences (working from his home lab), are studying this long ignored and little studied [social] Central American octopus." | 19:41 |
| kanzure | hmm someone with a home octopus lab in sf | 19:41 |
| kanzure | "Until Caldwell and Ross began studying the Larger Pacific Striped Octopus, the creature was virtually ignored. In 1991, Arcadio Rodaniche published a short abstract “Notes on the Behavior of the Larger Pacific Striped Octopus, An Undescribed Species of the Genus Octopus”, providing a tantalizing glimpse of this intriguing animal based on observations he made at the Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute in Panama in the late ... | 19:42 |
| kanzure | ... 70’s. Unfortunately, detailed information contained in a full manuscript documenting the Larger Pacific Striped Octopus’s unique social and reproductive behavior was never published. According to Caldwell, Rodaniche’s descriptions of the behavior of this species were so outside the norm of what biologists at the time thought octopuses did, they were dismissed by other cephalopod biologists. Unable to pass peer review, the ... | 19:42 |
| kanzure | ... manuscript was never published and the animal was forgotten. Living LPSOs weren’t seen again until they were rediscovered last year. According to Ross “We are thrilled to confirm many of Rodaniche’s observations”." | 19:42 |
| kanzure | oh come on | 19:42 |
| fenn | california academy of sciences is not exactly a home lab | 19:42 |
| fenn | they have a 3 story geodesic bio-sphere | 19:43 |
| kanzure | i think they mean he is affiliated with them but has a home lab | 19:43 |
| kanzure | and for some reason they felt it necessary to mention this | 19:43 |
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| kanzure | that's one really excited octopus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voTpUH9Ok4c | 19:43 |
| kanzure | (watching a hatching) | 19:44 |
| kanzure | actually nevermind. that may not be a hatching. | 19:45 |
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| kanzure | ah richard ross hangs out on that forum http://www.stickycricket.com/cuttle/articles/index.html https://www.tonmo.com/community/members/thales.462/ | 19:47 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: what is the thing juri is iat? | 19:47 |
| nmz787 | is at* | 19:47 |
| nmz787 | CCC doesn't google well | 19:47 |
| nmz787 | ah, 31C3 | 19:48 |
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| nmz787 | do you know which is juri_ ? http://events.ccc.de/congress/2014/Fahrplan/speakers.html | 19:50 |
| nmz787 | the casting aluminum one? | 19:50 |
| fenn | yes | 19:51 |
| nmz787 | ah ya https://gitorious.org/~juri | 19:51 |
| kanzure | http://www.stickycricket.com/cuttle/oc/oc_babies.html | 19:52 |
| kanzure | "Hatchling #23 found dead, dried above the water line." | 19:52 |
| fenn | it's a conspiracy | 19:52 |
| kanzure | "6 left from the first clutch, and 20 or so from the second." | 19:52 |
| fenn | i thought they died after laying eggs | 19:54 |
| kanzure | this subspecies lays multiple eggs and even travels in groups | 19:55 |
| kanzure | or lives in groups, rather | 19:55 |
| kanzure | of 40 | 19:55 |
| fenn | why was the paper never published? | 19:56 |
| kanzure | "Rodaniche’s descriptions of the behavior of this species were so outside the norm of what biologists at the time thought octopuses did, they were dismissed by other cephalopod biologists. Unable to pass peer review, the manuscript was never published and the animal was forgotten." | 19:57 |
| kanzure | lolz | 19:57 |
| fenn | facepalm | 19:57 |
| kanzure | so much is wrong with this | 19:58 |
| poppingtonic | huuh? | 20:02 |
| fenn | this projector was designed by Batman http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-SRX-R105-4K-HD-CineAlta-SR-Projector-w-KRL-Z125-2-5X-Zoom-Lens-3x-Boards-/331089192951 | 20:02 |
| kanzure | batman stole all of his designs from morgan freeman | 20:02 |
| fenn | you mean God? | 20:03 |
| kanzure | that was jim carrey | 20:03 |
| fenn | wow that thing is huge | 20:03 |
| poppingtonic | has juri_ already done her talk? | 20:07 |
| nmz787 | huh http://diagenetix.com/smart-dart-platform/ | 20:14 |
| fenn | "DNA isothermal amplification method" | 20:15 |
| fenn | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop-mediated_isothermal_amplification | 20:17 |
| kanzure | "loop primers" | 20:19 |
| kanzure | "LAMP has been observed to be less sensitive than PCR to inhibitors in complex samples such as blood, likely due to use of a different DNA polymerase (typically Bst DNA polymerase rather than Taq polymerase as in PCR)." | 20:19 |
| fenn | its like phage rolling replication | 20:19 |
| kanzure | "LAMP is useful primarily as a diagnostic or detection technique, but is not useful for cloning or myriad other molecular biology applications enabled by PCR. Because LAMP uses 4 (or 6) primers targeting 6 (or 8) regions within a fairly small segment of the genome, and because primer design is subject to numerous constraints, it is difficult to design primer sets for LAMP "by eye". Free, open-source[16] or commercial software packages ... | 20:20 |
| kanzure | ... are generally used to assist with LAMP primer design, although the primer design constraints mean there is less freedom to choose the target site than with PCR." | 20:20 |
| kanzure | hmm | 20:20 |
| fenn | beats the hell out of trucking ebola samples back to "the lab" because they don't have electricity in rural liberia | 20:22 |
| fenn | (nevermind that batteries exist) | 20:22 |
| * fenn facepalms again | 20:22 | |
| fenn | make it stop! | 20:23 |
| fenn | this article really needs an infographic | 20:24 |
| kanzure | a story about an octopus on a genocide mission https://www.tonmo.com/community/pages/tankmates/ | 20:24 |
| fenn | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC102748/figure/gnd064f1/ not the best graphic ever... | 20:24 |
| nmz787 | it seems like you need at least 6 to 12 primers | 20:25 |
| fenn | ok i was wrong, it's not like rolling replication | 20:27 |
| nmz787 | I wonder if the rRNA sites are stable enough to support that many probes | 20:28 |
| nmz787 | I guess you would want more specific probes to identify different species | 20:28 |
| fenn | i dont get why DLP megapixels arent keeping pace with camera megapixels or even LCD megapixels | 20:30 |
| fenn | a <$1k iPad has 2048*1536 = 3MP vs a $8k projector with the same resolution | 20:33 |
| fenn | meanwhile cameras are pushing 40MP | 20:35 |
| kanzure | probably limited market pressure | 20:37 |
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| fenn | the silly thing is you an just put a LCD screen in front of a big fresnel lens and a light bulb | 20:39 |
| fenn | and tada 3MP projector, or whatever resolution LCD panel you have | 20:39 |
| fenn | i got a flashlight and some magnifying glasses from the dollar store... | 20:41 |
| nmz787 | they're MEMS | 20:48 |
| nmz787 | they're MEMS | 20:48 |
| fenn | so? | 20:48 |
| nmz787 | different fab process | 20:49 |
| kanzure | here's a possibly evil thing.... if commercial schools exist, why isn't there commercial buying/selling of degrees? | 20:53 |
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| kanzure | also, even with gibson assembly, venter's genome still cost $40 million | 20:57 |
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| kanzure | "The Vatican has not condemned the discovery, but claims it is not a new life. [a 2]" | 21:02 |
| kanzure | "It is estimated that the synthetic genome cost US$40 million to make and took 20 people more than a decade of work.[b 5]" | 21:02 |
| kanzure | reference is Pennisi E (May 2010). "Genomics. Synthetic genome brings new life to bacterium". Science 328 (5981): 958–9. doi:10.1126/science.328.5981.958. PMID 20488994. | 21:02 |
| kanzure | http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/328/5981/958.pdf | 21:03 |
| kanzure | oh they didn't even synthesize it in house? | 21:05 |
| kanzure | "The researchers started building their synthetic chromosome by going DNA shopping. They bought from a company more than 1000 1080-base sequences that covered the whole M. mycoides genome; " | 21:05 |
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| kanzure | so i guess that's really only $330,000 in synthesis costs | 21:07 |
| kanzure | if they were paying $0.30/bp | 21:07 |
| kanzure | which sounds right for the time | 21:07 |
| kanzure | so what was the other $40 million for | 21:08 |
| kanzure | definitely wasn't paying everyone $200k/year | 21:09 |
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| kanzure | 1995 sequenced mycoplasma genitalium, 2003 finishe deleting 100 genes out of the 500 genes, 2007 demonstrated insertion of chromosomes, 2008-2009 actual results and synthesis | 21:18 |
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| kanzure | also this pdf claims venter was only thinking about genome synthesis since 1995ish, which sounds insane to me | 21:19 |
| kanzure | timeline doesn't ad up | 21:19 |
| kanzure | *add up | 21:19 |
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| kanzure | *finished | 21:19 |
| kanzure | surely he was thinking about synthesis as soon as he was thinking about sequencing | 21:20 |
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