| --- Log opened Mon Jan 12 00:00:03 2015 | ||
| --- Day changed Mon Jan 12 2015 | ||
| -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@94.117.93.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 00:00 | |
| -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@94.117.93.19] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:03 | |
| -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@94.117.93.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 00:15 | |
| -!- Qfwfq [~WashIrvin@unaffiliated/washirving] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] | 00:24 | |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-knevdhsornxpunrh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:40 | |
| -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@pool-173-57-55-138.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 01:00 | |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:17 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] | 01:31 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@2001:41d0:8:c2da::1337] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:32 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@2001:41d0:8:c2da::1337] has quit [Changing host] | 01:32 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:32 | |
| -!- QuadIngi [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:36 | |
| -!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 01:36 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 01:39 | |
| -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@nusnet-253-51.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 01:46 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:22 | |
| -!- ButaTine [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:40 | |
| -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@nusnet-228-31.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:42 | |
| -!- QuadIngi [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 02:43 | |
| -!- ButaTine [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 02:46 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 03:00 | |
| -!- kenju254 [~kenju254@static-41-242-0-196.ips.angani.co] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 03:06 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:07 | |
| -!- kenju254 [~kenju254@static-41-242-0-196.ips.angani.co] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:10 | |
| -!- ButaTine [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:11 | |
| archels | https://github.com/screenfreeze/deskcon-desktop/issues/23 | 03:13 |
|---|---|---|
| archels | (inappropriate lol) | 03:13 |
| -!- ButaTine [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 03:27 | |
| -!- ButaTine [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:30 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@179.26.166.25] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:34 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.165.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 03:49 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.165.1] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:50 | |
| -!- ButaTine [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 03:51 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:30 | |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-knevdhsornxpunrh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 04:44 | |
| -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:06 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 05:26 | |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zfwjgwtbwizlgvui] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:27 | |
| delinquentme | http://motherboard.vice.com/read/silk-road-reloaded-i2p | 05:46 |
| kanzure | isn't this the second "silk road reloaded" | 05:50 |
| kanzure | e.g. not the one that people think? | 05:50 |
| eudoxia | i thought we were at number three now? | 05:51 |
| eudoxia | or is it a tree of silk roads rather than a linear chain? | 05:51 |
| chris_99 | yeah there was a silk road 2 wasn't there, so you're probably right about it being the 3rd | 05:52 |
| kanzure | silk road 3 is something else | 05:58 |
| kanzure | see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8871465 | 05:58 |
| archels | why does Silk Road get all the credit? there are dozens of thriving darknet markets our there | 05:59 |
| archels | is it anything more than a ripped-off name at this point? | 05:59 |
| chris_99 | nope | 06:00 |
| kanzure | "It's not even the first site to be called 'Silk Road Reloaded'. The name is also a blatant effort to fool newbies and claim unearned credit." | 06:00 |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:00 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 06:18 | |
| kanzure | fenn: what are the options for deep sea network communication? | 06:26 |
| cuba_ | very low frequencies are used with km long antennas | 06:27 |
| cuba_ | or floating devices with satelite communications | 06:27 |
| cuba_ | for subs it is of course not bidirect | 06:27 |
| kanzure | iirc there's no good way for 2 km depth communication other than fiberoptics | 06:28 |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.165.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 06:31 | |
| cuba_ | most likely kanzure | 06:32 |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:34 | |
| kanzure | well what are the theoretical designs here | 06:35 |
| kanzure | orionsarm doesn't seem to have any deep sea wormhole nonsense | 06:35 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 06:35 | |
| kanzure | haha the merkle gear http://orionsarm.com/im_store/technologymain.jpg | 06:35 |
| kanzure | all they got is http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/490b3010a681a | 06:37 |
| -!- augur_ [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:42 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 06:43 | |
| kanzure | "A deep sea telescope for high energy neutrinos" http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/9907432.pdf | 06:45 |
| kanzure | progress update http://arxiv.org/pdf/0711.0563.pdf | 06:46 |
| kanzure | .wik KM3NeT | 06:49 |
| yoleaux | "KM3NeT, an acronym for Cubic Kilometre Neutrino Telescope, is a future European research infrastructure that will be located at the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KM3NeT | 06:49 |
| kanzure | "KM3NeT will search for neutrinos from distant astrophysical sources like supernova remnants, gamma-ray bursts, supernovae or colliding stars and will be a powerful tool in the search for dark matter in the universe. Its prime objective is to detect neutrinos from sources in our Galaxy. Arrays of thousands of optical sensor modules will detect the faint light in the deep sea from charged particles originating from collisions of the ... | 06:50 |
| kanzure | ... neutrinos and the water or rock in the vicinity of the detector. The research infrastructure will also house instrumentation for other sciences like marine biology, oceanography and geophysics for long term and on-line monitoring of the deep sea environment and the sea bottom at depth of several kilometres." | 06:50 |
| kanzure | "The full neutrino telescope will contain in the order of 12000 pressure-resistant glass spheres attached to about 600 strings - vertical structures with a height of almost one kilometer. Each glass sphere will contain 31 photomultiplier tubes and will be connected to shore via a high-bandwidth optical network. At the shore of each KM3NeT installation site, a farm of computers will perform the first data filter in the search for the ... | 06:50 |
| kanzure | ... signal of cosmic neutrinos, prior to streaming the data to a central KM3NeT data centre for storage and further analysis by the KM3NeT scientists." | 06:50 |
| kanzure | .wik ANTARES (telescope) | 06:50 |
| yoleaux | "ANTARES is the name of a neutrino detector residing 2.5 km under the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Toulon, France. It is designed to be used as a directional Neutrino Telescope to locate and observe neutrino flux from cosmic origins in the direction of the Southern Hemisphere of the Earth, a complement to the southern hemisphere …" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANTARES_(telescope) | 06:50 |
| kanzure | "On the other hand, water contains more sources of background light than ice (radioactive isotopes potassium-40 in the sea salt and bioluminescent organisms), leading to a higher energy thresholds for ANTARES with respect to IceCube and making more sophisticated background-suppression methods necessary." | 06:52 |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 06:59 | |
| kanzure | "NEMO-Ovde: a submarine station for real-time monitoring of acoustic background installed at 2000 m depth in the Mediterranean Sea" http://arxiv.org/pdf/0804.2913.pdf | 06:59 |
| kanzure | "The stored data library, consisting of more than 2000 hours of recordings, is a unique tool to model underwater acoustic noise at large depth" | 07:01 |
| kanzure | "Recent Results from the ANTARES Neutrino Telescope" | 07:03 |
| kanzure | "Recent Results from the ANTARES Neutrino Telescope" http://arxiv.org/pdf/1211.5516.pdf | 07:03 |
| kanzure | page 1 figure 1 good diagram | 07:03 |
| kanzure | http://antares.in2p3.fr/Gallery/selected.html | 07:10 |
| kanzure | http://antares.in2p3.fr/Gallery/3D/Aguilar/posterCentralv4_lowquality.jpg | 07:13 |
| kanzure | others http://antares.in2p3.fr/Gallery/3D/index.html | 07:13 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@179.26.166.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 07:28 | |
| -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 07:30 | |
| -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:32 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 07:55 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:59 | |
| -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-xfwukgxcavseopmw] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:13 | |
| fenn | 09:08 <@SketchCow> Ted Cruz just got in charge of NASA, NOAA, and NSF | 08:21 |
| fenn | 09:08 <@SketchCow> Lot of stuff could be disappearing. | 08:21 |
| kanzure | hmm. well none of that is ncbi, so our genomes are safe. | 08:23 |
| fenn | ok maybe that was inaccurate. he's chair of "ubcommittee on Space, Science, and Competitiveness | 08:24 |
| fenn | they added "competitiveness" just now | 08:26 |
| justanotheruser | paperbot 0131896431 | 08:28 |
| justanotheruser | paperbot isbn:0131896431 | 08:28 |
| -!- the8thbit|work [~8bit@66.186.100.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 08:37 | |
| fenn | ceci paperbot est mort, vive paperbot en direct | 08:37 |
| kanzure | i am trying to figure out if "nobody can remotely operate deep sea mining vehicles (like from the safety of coasts) and this is why nobody is mining sea stuff" is true | 08:40 |
| fenn | it's hard to get permission to do seafloor mining | 08:40 |
| kanzure | from who? | 08:41 |
| kanzure | i meant communication physics stuff | 08:41 |
| fenn | http://szabo.best.vwh.net/miningthevastydeep.html | 08:41 |
| kanzure | god damn it szabo | 08:41 |
| fenn | communication is not the problem; if you're transmitting power you can transmit data too | 08:42 |
| kanzure | i had assumed nuclear deep sea vehicles because everything else is more inconvenient | 08:42 |
| fenn | "Disputes over who owns what in the ocean have been a fact of global politics for decades. For reasons of security, potential resources and sometimes just pride, countries are constantly claiming control over new chunks of underwater property. As an indicator of just how rare it is to be able to mine hassle-free in the ocean, the exploration licence Papua New Guinea granted Nautilus was a world | 08:43 |
| fenn | first." | 08:43 |
| kanzure | was that an oil exploration license? or just a general exploration license? | 08:43 |
| fenn | that was written in 2007; i think nautilus never actually got anywhere | 08:43 |
| -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 08:43 | |
| fenn | they were doing manganese nodules i think | 08:44 |
| kragen | I think it is true that nobody can remotely operate deep-sea mininng vehicles from the safety of coasts | 08:45 |
| kragen | I mean, unless you lay a cable to the coast | 08:46 |
| fenn | "seafloor massive sulfides ... Elements of potential commercial interest in both the modern and ancient deposits are copper, zinc, lead, silver, gold and barium." | 08:46 |
| -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 08:47 | |
| kragen | seawater strongly attenuates radio waves above ELF and sound above the audible, neither of which have enough bandwidth for a live video feed | 08:47 |
| fenn | well someone has to actually throw the ROV in the water, and since they all require electricity to function (no nuclear reactors yet, unfortunately) that means there must be a ship overhead with generators. and once you have all that, you might as well add a shipping container for a portable ROV control center | 08:48 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: pls get libgen back up asap | 08:48 |
| kanzure | er, how do the subs work? | 08:48 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: way ahead of you | 08:48 |
| kanzure | i thought subs had reactors | 08:48 |
| kanzure | or am i remembering warhammer and not reality? | 08:48 |
| fenn | commercial ones dont | 08:48 |
| fenn | there are only like 50 nuclear subs anyway | 08:49 |
| kragen | subs have had reactors since the 1960s, yes | 08:49 |
| -!- pasky [~pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 08:49 | |
| kragen | but building your own nuclear sub would be very challenging because of anti-proliferation | 08:49 |
| -!- pasky [~pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:49 | |
| fenn | carring a ton of peroxide and fuel cells is probably feasible though | 08:50 |
| kragen | yeah, you can probably do that. or even just liquid oxygen | 08:50 |
| kragen | which is both cheaper and less dangerous than peroxide | 08:50 |
| fenn | if you say so | 08:50 |
| kanzure | how long does hte longest storm tend to last | 08:50 |
| kanzure | also it may not make sense to make everything designed to surface for fueling | 08:51 |
| kanzure | or maintenance | 08:51 |
| fenn | sure you could just drop fuel+oxygen tanks | 08:51 |
| kanzure | well i mean pressure/density transition impacts on materials, etc.. there's design issues. | 08:51 |
| fenn | but still, if you're doing mining eventually you want to surface something, and the more refining you do on the seafloor the more expensive it gets | 08:51 |
| kragen | if you had an undersea neutrino telescope maybe you could send a video feed via neutrino beams | 08:52 |
| kragen | kanzure: typically less than a week I think | 08:52 |
| kanzure | that's just detection of neutrinos not neutrino transmission | 08:52 |
| fenn | i dont think the pressure transition is a big problem for machines | 08:52 |
| kragen | making neutrinos is pretty easy | 08:52 |
| kragen | it's detecting them that's hardd | 08:53 |
| kragen | fucking shitty keyboard | 08:53 |
| fenn | i assumed that's why he was reading about neutrino telescopes | 08:53 |
| kanzure | eh mostly because i was confused about why i am not familiar with deep sea communication technologies | 08:53 |
| kragen | yeah | 08:53 |
| justanotheruser | what happened to paperbot? | 08:54 |
| justanotheruser | did he die? | 08:54 |
| fenn | there's VLF radio and acoustic modems and fiber optics and electric cables, and that's it | 08:54 |
| kragen | typical deep-see communication technology is "three-hundred-mile-long ELF antennna to broadcast an encrypted command to surface for higher-bandwidth communication" | 08:54 |
| kragen | sea | 08:54 |
| kragen | I can't blame that one on the keyboard | 08:54 |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zfwjgwtbwizlgvui] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 08:54 | |
| kragen | or ultrasound | 08:54 |
| kragen | but sound is not stealthy, so nuclear subs don't like it, and ultrasound is short-range | 08:55 |
| fenn | acoustic can get pretty good bitrates at less than a few km range | 08:55 |
| kragen | yes | 08:55 |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qbpekxrdecjnpyxp] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:55 | |
| fenn | there's a lot of impedance mismatches in seawater due to thermal and saline gradients | 08:55 |
| kragen | and acoustic has this massive advantage around the thermocline | 08:56 |
| kragen | it's self-focusing | 08:56 |
| fenn | sure, if you're transmitting sideways | 08:56 |
| kragen | right | 08:56 |
| kragen | so you don't get inverse-square falloff | 08:56 |
| fenn | a sonobuoy is super cheap though, for a stationary mining operation | 08:56 |
| jrayhawk_ | window 4 | 08:56 |
| jrayhawk_ | whoops | 08:56 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: libgen.org person died, paperbot was using libgen a bunch, nobody has fixed paperbot | 08:57 |
| jrayhawk_ | died? | 08:57 |
| fenn | will someone please think of the robots | 08:57 |
| justanotheruser | oh really? I thought they just moved to .info | 08:57 |
| fenn | lonely hungry orphan robots | 08:57 |
| justanotheruser | and .info is down now | 08:57 |
| kanzure | there are many libgen mirrors | 08:58 |
| kanzure | hard to tell | 08:58 |
| kanzure | they may or may not be mirrors operated by other people | 08:58 |
| justanotheruser | well I went to .org, it was down, thought I had the wrong tld, googled libgen and found libgen.info and it 404d | 08:58 |
| kanzure | your method is silly | 08:58 |
| kanzure | there's a fairly exhaustive list of mirrors in hplusroadmap logs, though | 08:58 |
| fenn | a link to the list, not the list itself | 08:58 |
| justanotheruser | what happened to the libgen.org runner? | 08:58 |
| kanzure | he died | 08:59 |
| kanzure | what's so hard to understand about htis | 08:59 |
| fenn | he was assassinated by a crack team of elsevier commandos | 08:59 |
| kanzure | he ceased to be among the living. he is no more. he is as dead as a parrot watching monty python sketches. | 08:59 |
| justanotheruser | I mean, was it an aaron swartz type thing? | 08:59 |
| kanzure | aaron swartz is also dead, that's certainly true...? | 08:59 |
| justanotheruser | please | 09:00 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj8RIEQH7zA | 09:00 |
| yoleaux | Pet Shop (Dead Parrot) - Monty Python - YouTube | 09:00 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: when did he die? | 09:01 |
| justanotheruser | I used it like 3 months ago | 09:01 |
| justanotheruser | I can't find anything on google on libgen.org shutting down | 09:02 |
| fenn | libgen is run by a group but the domain name was the weak link because only one person had "the legal right" to the domain (or so i am informed) | 09:02 |
| -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:02 | |
| fenn | and that person died | 09:02 |
| -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:02 | |
| fenn | that's all the info i have | 09:02 |
| justanotheruser | fenn: yeah, that's mostly what I was confused about, how the domain could go away so easily when they died | 09:03 |
| jrayhawk_ | iomobil was the name, apparently | 09:03 |
| justanotheruser | hmm | 09:05 |
| jrayhawk_ | libgen.in looks to still work | 09:05 |
| kanzure | huh that video looks all wrong to me | 09:07 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE | 09:07 |
| yoleaux | The Parrot Sketch - Monty Python's The Flying Circus - YouTube | 09:07 |
| kanzure | there we go. what the hell was that other thing? | 09:07 |
| fenn | libgen.in shows these mirrors: gen.lib.rus.ec - 1M (only search) bookfi.org libgen.net - 1M bookzz.org (bookza.org, bookos.org) http://u76v7ha6j4jmtz3k2lseaso5qy36lxs77klhovmptufwcodovatq.b32.i2p/ | 09:07 |
| kanzure | there are others | 09:07 |
| justanotheruser | thanks | 09:08 |
| justanotheruser | too bad about iomobil | 09:08 |
| kanzure | anyway you guys should just fix paperbot instead of complaining like this | 09:11 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 09:11 | |
| fenn | cancer apparently. too bad he couldn't share the dns password before dying | 09:11 |
| fenn | anyway it's just a domain name | 09:11 |
| fenn | IP address of libgen.in is 95.31.43.252 | 09:14 |
| kanzure | does it have the same php endpoints that paperbot was using | 09:16 |
| kanzure | go get the one that ParahSailin checked the other day | 09:16 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:19 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:27 | |
| kanzure | "don't think of it as work, just as happy fun paper coding time" | 09:33 |
| -!- the8thbit|work [~8bit@66.186.100.194] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:43 | |
| the8thbit|work | archels: Is it possible to cross compile the neuroML2 NEURON plugin using nrnocmodl? nrnocmodl depends on make, and my target does not have make. | 09:44 |
| -!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-xfwukgxcavseopmw] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 09:50 | |
| -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@nusnet-228-31.dynip.nus.edu.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 09:53 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-88-172.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:57 | |
| kanzure | "3 Letter Agency - Volume 114 - Stolen Mkultra Mix" electronic music sure has got weird | 10:09 |
| -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:11 | |
| -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 10:11 | |
| -!- shubhamgoyal [~shubhamgo@118.189.209.93] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:12 | |
| archels | good question, don't know | 10:12 |
| archels | can you use anything other than NEURON? | 10:13 |
| -!- nmz787_i1 [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-aoxqoubjddqvqwnd] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:22 | |
| the8thbit|work | archels: I just want to run and interact with the openworm neuroML2 files from the command line. I didn't know there were alternatives to NEURON for doing that | 10:27 |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@182.48.83.100] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:30 | |
| FAMAS | greetings | 10:30 |
| the8thbit|work | hello FAMAS | 10:34 |
| archels | I think there are some alternatives | 10:35 |
| FAMAS | anyone here who built their own serology lab? | 10:35 |
| archels | although the OpenWorm team use NEURON themselves, that might be the easiest to bootstrap | 10:35 |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 10:36 | |
| archels | cross-compiling should be possible with NEURON | 10:37 |
| the8thbit|work | archels: I can crosscompile NEURON itself, and have done so, but I don't know about the plugin files | 10:39 |
| the8thbit|work | archels: nrnocmodl only seems to have three flags, -i, -f, and -r... nothing about setting a host file for configuration\ | 10:40 |
| the8thbit|work | er | 10:40 |
| the8thbit|work | *host machine | 10:40 |
| FAMAS | anyone here who built their own serology lab? | 10:43 |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:43 | |
| kanzure | FAMAS: you should wait longer for a reply | 10:44 |
| archels | you might need to look into nrnivmodl instead | 10:44 |
| archels | and cross-compile nrnivmodl for the target platform | 10:44 |
| archels | (at least I think that's right) | 10:44 |
| the8thbit|work | archels: I believe everything with iv in it depends on X, which I dont have on the target, and would rather not pull in | 10:53 |
| the8thbit|work | archels: Oh, nevermind | 10:54 |
| the8thbit|work | I have the iv version installed on the target too, and it runs | 10:54 |
| the8thbit|work | but | 10:54 |
| the8thbit|work | I get the same 'make: command not found' error | 10:54 |
| the8thbit|work | same flags availible... | 10:58 |
| -!- ButaTine [~FourFire@77.88.71.230] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:13 | |
| -!- skyraider [uid41097@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-msqchtjxsuczqoqe] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:16 | |
| the8thbit|work | archels: I tried building nrnivmodl for amd64 , and running it with my cc envs sourced... wasn't surprised that it didnt work lol | 11:20 |
| the8thbit|work | libtool: compile: unable to infer tagged configuration | 11:21 |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 11:29 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:35 | |
| heath | more random input from myself: i don't think it's possible to implement Know Your Customer without violating a user's privacy | 11:38 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.mail-archive.com/qemu-devel@nongnu.org/msg273404.html | 11:50 |
| yoleaux | [Qemu-devel] [RFC PATCH v7 00/21] Deterministic replay core | 11:50 |
| -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 12:06 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] | 12:12 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@2001:41d0:8:c2da::1337] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:12 | |
| -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 12:14 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:14 | |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qbpekxrdecjnpyxp] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 12:14 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@2001:41d0:8:c2da::1337] has quit [Changing host] | 12:20 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:20 | |
| -!- nickjohnson [sid789@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-irrgskeeghjqnybh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 12:23 | |
| -!- skyraider [uid41097@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-msqchtjxsuczqoqe] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 12:23 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 12:25 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 12:25 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:a98c:b898:db6f:f258] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 12:25 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 12:25 | |
| -!- nickjohnson [sid789@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wckspjrocxtmjsro] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:26 | |
| -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:26 | |
| -!- skyraider [uid41097@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-atbzckygenwicptv] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:27 | |
| -!- EnabrinTain [sid11525@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fgkzhyxphgnoalff] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 12:28 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@2001:41d0:8:c2da::1337] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:29 | |
| -!- EnabrinTain [sid11525@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jelvkdjtjepzxqxk] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:29 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:29 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@2001:41d0:8:c2da::1337] has quit [Changing host] | 12:31 | |
| -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:31 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:ede2:4c1:f399:7525] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:32 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 12:39 | |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zlyrwwepbbqkmope] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:46 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:57 | |
| -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 13:05 | |
| -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:14 | |
| -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] | 13:18 | |
| -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:19 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 13:36 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.165.1] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:39 | |
| kanzure | http://www.cato-unbound.org/2014/12/01/david-brin/seti-meti-paradox-extraterrestrial-life-there-libertarian-perspective | 13:55 |
| kanzure | http://www.cato-unbound.org/2014/12/03/robin-hanson/should-earth-shut-hell | 13:55 |
| kanzure | http://www.cato-unbound.org/2014/12/24/robin-hanson/adapted-aliens | 13:55 |
| the8thbit|work | oh lol | 13:58 |
| the8thbit|work | The anti-robot question in NEURON's forum registration form is "The _______ equation relates the equilibrium potential of an ionic species to its intracellular and extracellular concentrations" | 13:59 |
| the8thbit|work | and copying and pasting that into google gives you the answer as literally the first result | 14:01 |
| the8thbit|work | its more of an anti-human question | 14:01 |
| the8thbit|work | kanzure: I dont want cato in my browser history | 14:19 |
| jrayhawk_ | Robin Hanson is a pretty cool guy and you should not feel ashamed for reading him. | 14:19 |
| jrayhawk_ | david brin less so | 14:20 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-88-172.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 14:27 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:39 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:46 | |
| -!- ButaTine [~FourFire@77.88.71.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 14:53 | |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zlyrwwepbbqkmope] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 14:54 | |
| -!- skyraider [uid41097@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-atbzckygenwicptv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 14:55 | |
| delinquentme | http://www.computerworld.com/article/2867040/new-service-wants-to-rent-out-your-hard-drives-extra-space.html | 15:01 |
| delinquentme | kanzoo | 15:01 |
| delinquentme | are you caffinated? | 15:01 |
| delinquentme | GOOD. | 15:01 |
| kanzure | taking a while for the adderall to kick in | 15:03 |
| delinquentme | turkey baste it? | 15:05 |
| delinquentme | LEL! | 15:05 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, so the code wasnt horrible | 15:16 |
| delinquentme |   simply because I wanted to keep styling min. as its all 1 page | 15:16 |
| kanzure | weren't you using jquery | 15:23 |
| delinquentme | yeap | 15:29 |
| delinquentme | suggestions? | 15:29 |
| delinquentme | im about to drink moar coffee | 15:29 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, can we devote a singular prayer to Xenu | 15:29 |
| delinquentme | 3d robotics. They must make offer ! | 15:30 |
| kanzure | jquery is pretty bloaty | 15:33 |
| kanzure | consider zepto.js or something | 15:33 |
| -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 15:34 | |
| -!- ElGalambo_ [~ElGalambo@gateway/tor-sasl/elgalambo] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:35 | |
| -!- ElGalambo_ [~ElGalambo@gateway/tor-sasl/elgalambo] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] | 15:36 | |
| delinquentme | OH GREAT XENU GOD OF THOM CRUZ | 15:38 |
| delinquentme | WE PRAY IN THE NAME OF SPATULA | 15:38 |
| delinquentme | TABERNACLE. | 15:38 |
| * delinquentme removes snip of fetlock | 15:38 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 15:42 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] | 15:50 | |
| -!- ElGalambo_ [~ElGalambo@gateway/tor-sasl/elgalambo] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:59 | |
| ElGalambo_ | since coenzyme q10 is quite expensive, what is the lowest effective dose I should take? | 16:00 |
| kanzure | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8873250 | 16:02 |
| kanzure | "GPU cores are tiny because the problems they deal with are "embarrassingly parallel", trivially solved by throwing more cores at the problem. You make the cores as simple as possible so you can have thousands of them on a chip. Modern GPUs don't even have SIMD units per core any more; both NVidia and AMD are completely scalar now. You'd think that graphics would be the perfect scenario for SIMD, since shaders spend so much time dealing ... | 16:02 |
| kanzure | ... with 3 and 4D vectors, transformation matrices, colors, and so on, but it worked out that the gain in throughput and instruction density per-core was outweighed by the power, heat, and die cost of having parts of those thousands of SIMD units sitting idle while working on data that doesn't take up a whole SIMD register. And because context switches are much rarer on GPUs than CPUs, they can have extremely deep pipelines that push ... | 16:03 |
| kanzure | ... compute efficiency even further, at the expense of context switch latency." | 16:03 |
| kanzure | "CPU cores are, if I may, "fuckhuge", because by and large they can't solve their problems by throwing more cores at them. They take on problems that are inherently serial and branch heavy, like compiling a program or optimally compressing a large file, and throw bigger cores at them (out-of-order execution, branch prediction, speculative execution, multiple ALUs per core, instruction schedulers that exploit the parallelism hidden in the ... | 16:03 |
| kanzure | ... serial instruction stream, large register files only visible to the microarchitecture, etc) while maintaining a fairly short pipeline so that branch prediction failures and context switches don't take too long to recover from. SIMD fits in well here, because the cost of bigger and bigger ALUs is pretty much insignificant compared to all the other hardware that goes into a high-end CPU core. It can be a pain to optimize for, but it's ... | 16:03 |
| kanzure | ... great for middle-ground tasks that need both heavy parallel and serial/branch-heavy computing resources with little latency between the two, like video compression." | 16:03 |
| the8thbit|work | halp im drowning in all this text | 16:03 |
| the8thbit|work | halp | 16:03 |
| delinquentme | ElGalambo_, Munkholm H, Hansen HH, Rasmussen K:Coenzyme treatment in serious heart failure. Biofactors 9(2-4): 285-289, 1999. | 16:03 |
| * delinquentme throws ramen at the8thbit|work | 16:04 | |
| * delinquentme ( only 1 packet ) | 16:04 | |
| * delinquentme ( and its stale ) | 16:04 | |
| -!- blueskin [~blueskin@unaffiliated/blueskin] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] | 16:05 | |
| the8thbit|work | mmmm dry stale noodles... | 16:05 |
| -!- blueskin [~blueskin@unaffiliated/blueskin] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:05 | |
| delinquentme | steep for 4-6 minutes | 16:05 |
| kanzure | the8thbit|work: you wouldn't happen to know how the magic of mRNA display works, eh? | 16:05 |
| the8thbit|work | mRNA display? | 16:05 |
| the8thbit|work | I dont even know wtf that is | 16:06 |
| ElGalambo_ | kanzure, look up nvidia tesla. also this explains why brute force computing like bitcoin mining is much faster on gpus | 16:06 |
| kanzure | so you're saying there's a chance? | 16:06 |
| kanzure | bitcoin mining is not significantly faster on gpus than asics | 16:06 |
| the8thbit|work | kanzure: Hes comparing CPUs to GPUs | 16:06 |
| ElGalambo_ | kanzure, no I mean in comparison with cpus | 16:06 |
| delinquentme | kanz is making 4k displays by using controlled flourescence synthesis for RGB | 16:06 |
| kanzure | you mean nmz787 | 16:07 |
| delinquentme | biological TVs | 16:07 |
| kanzure | no that's anselm | 16:07 |
| kanzure | well, biological TVs and less smelly vaginas | 16:07 |
| kanzure | i assume the vagina yeast thing is a side project | 16:07 |
| the8thbit|work | so can I have sex with it then | 16:07 |
| delinquentme | I dont care so long as I have a flexible HD display embedded in my thigh by next christmas | 16:07 |
| * delinquentme tests his butthole biome | 16:08 | |
| delinquentme | tastes a little sweet ? | 16:08 |
| delinquentme | should I get that tested? | 16:08 |
| the8thbit|work | you should get that tweeted | 16:08 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: so why in principle should cells be more difficult to work with anyway.. just kill off the offenders? | 16:10 |
| kanzure | like http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/Ultrahigh-throughput%20screening%20in%20drop-based%20microfluidics%20for%20directed%20evolution%20-%202010.pdf | 16:11 |
| -!- ElGalambo_ [~ElGalambo@gateway/tor-sasl/elgalambo] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] | 16:11 | |
| delinquentme | I *truly* love fixed-width fonts | 16:11 |
| kanzure | "In total, we screen ∼10^8 individual enzyme reactions in only 10 h, using <150 μL of total reagent volume; compared to state-of-the-art robotic screening systems, we perform the entire assay with a 1,000-fold increase in speed and a 1-million-fold reduction in cost." | 16:13 |
| kanzure | here's someone doing it with a cell-free protein synthesis reaction http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2012/lc/c2lc21035e#!divAbstract | 16:18 |
| kanzure | i forgot about http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Cell-free%20protein%20synthesis%20from%20a%20single%20copy%20of%20DNA%20in%20a%20glass%20microchamber.pdf | 16:19 |
| kanzure | evaporative cooling to freeze biological samples in microfluidic devices http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/rsi/86/1/10.1063/1.4905184 | 16:21 |
| kanzure | hmm. | 16:21 |
| -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-9-188.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:21 | |
| kanzure | why would they only run that for just 10 hours anyway? | 16:21 |
| delinquentme | current best website for PDF text books? | 16:31 |
| delinquentme | libgen << DOWN | 16:31 |
| -!- cpopell [uid60189@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nrosnuipbczwnmii] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 16:35 | |
| kanzure | hmm if my "use cells as reagents in oligonucleotide synthesis" thing (+ directed evolution) has a chance of working then you might as well also do extracellular cell-assisted pcr too | 16:42 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | i understood some of those words | 16:43 |
| kanzure | pcr is just "use some polymerase and reagents to copy dna molecules" | 16:43 |
| kanzure | but you have to buy and maintain mastermix | 16:44 |
| kanzure | and.. stuff.. | 16:44 |
| kanzure | anyway it's just inconvenient | 16:44 |
| delinquentme | dj kanzoo | 16:45 |
| -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:47 | |
| -!- strangewarp_ [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 16:47 | |
| kanzure | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OnIXIVBUMc | 16:48 |
| kanzure | eh nevermind | 16:48 |
| -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] | 16:49 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-162-106-6.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 16:52 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-196-155-220.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:52 | |
| kanzure | "Cell extract - or lysate-derived systems for protein synthesis - continue to be exploited and optimized, with the traditional wheat germ, rabbit reticulocyte and E. coli lysates being extended with Leischmanii (Kovtun et al. 2011), Thermus (Zhou et al. 2012) and even human (Mikami et al. 2008) cell-free systems." | 16:53 |
| kanzure | "Ribosomal protein synthesis (both cellular and cell-free) is characterized by exceptionally high fidelity, with an amino acid misincorporation frequency of approx. 0.01%, even at high elongation rates (20 residues/s)(Yadavalli and Ibba 2012). This makes it possible to accurately produce extremely large proteins (up to 3.5 MDa)(LeWinter and Granzier 2010) by these biochemical methods. ‘Cell factories’ are able to perform the complete ... | 16:54 |
| kanzure | ... metabolic transformation of simple nutrients (inorganic salts and carbon fuels) into protein products. Cell-free systems require input of pre-formed amino acids, but provide other advantages described above. Solid phase chemical synthesis of proteins can in principle be used to produce polypeptides with a virtually unlimited range of building blocks and stereochemistry, but requires protected amino acid derivatives, is relatively ... | 16:54 |
| kanzure | ... slow (approx. 15 min per coupling cycle) and the relatively high error rate (maximum coupling efficiency approximately 99% per cycle) (Merrifield 1997) places a practical limit on the size of the protein product that can be formed (Table 1)." | 16:54 |
| kanzure | from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3553302/ | 16:54 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.pnas.org/content/106/10/3865.short | 16:57 |
| yoleaux | Directed evolution of adeno-associated virus to an infectious respiratory virus | 16:57 |
| kanzure | yikes "We used directed evolution in an organotypic human airway model to generate a highly infectious adeno-associated virus. This virus mediated gene transfer more than 100-fold better than parental strains and corrected the cystic fibrosis epithelial Cl− transport defect. Thus, under appropriate selective pressures, viruses can evolve to be more infectious than observed in nature, a finding that holds significant implications for ... | 16:57 |
| kanzure | ... designing vectors for gene therapy and for understanding emerging pathogens." | 16:58 |
| -!- yottabit [uid36770@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xmxuymtbvrxdcorh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:09 | |
| kanzure | huh apparently my idea of cell-mediated chemical reactions is not very well studied http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/directed-evolution/Combining%20bio-%20and%20chemo-catalysis:%20from%20enzymes%20to%20cells,%20from%20petroleum%20to%20biomass.pdf | 17:11 |
| -!- delinquentme [~dingo@74.61.157.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 17:33 | |
| -!- augur_ [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 17:39 | |
| -!- cpopell [uid60189@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-flxjyxkmpsuyxidx] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:42 | |
| -!- nmz787_i1 [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-aoxqoubjddqvqwnd] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 17:43 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:45 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.165.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 17:52 | |
| -!- ebowden [~ebowden@147.69.165.1] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:53 | |
| bbrittain | current status: pretending that I'm a large hardware company to get a datasheet for an LCD monitor :/ | 18:01 |
| bbrittain | where is the underground market for this shit? | 18:01 |
| kanzure | bbrittain: big co and associates | 18:01 |
| kanzure | shenzhen | 18:02 |
| kanzure | it's above ground though | 18:02 |
| kanzure | bbrittain: does ginkgo do much "directed evolution" stuff? | 18:02 |
| bbrittain | goddamn, I love china. It's so easy to get hardware there | 18:03 |
| bbrittain | they totes try to scam me though :? | 18:03 |
| bbrittain | :/ | 18:03 |
| bbrittain | kanzure: very little I think. | 18:03 |
| kanzure | hm ok | 18:03 |
| bbrittain | why? | 18:03 |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 18:03 | |
| kanzure | trying to figure out why nobody has bothered investigating cell-mediated chemical reactions | 18:04 |
| kanzure | probably because nobody has single cells isolated well enough to try | 18:04 |
| -!- dvorkbjel [~viskestel@li607-220.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] | 18:05 | |
| bbrittain | hmmm. I found a similiar LCD, I just gonna pretend they kept the interface the same | 18:07 |
| bbrittain | we'll see if I blow it up :D | 18:07 |
| -!- dvorkbjel [~viskestel@li607-220.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:07 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:13 | |
| AmbulatoryCortex | maybe if you got your hands on one of those gigantic amoebas from the seafloor | 18:30 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | those would be pretty easy to isolate, if you could keep them alive | 18:32 |
| kanzure | why those amoeba? | 18:32 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | they're macroscopic | 18:32 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | considerably so | 18:32 |
| kanzure | but why does that matter? | 18:32 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | you were wondering about isolating single cells | 18:33 |
| kanzure | cell isolation is not problem | 18:35 |
| kanzure | quite common procedure | 18:35 |
| kanzure | you can shove them into a narrow channel and force them to separate, for example | 18:35 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | ah, nevermind then | 18:39 |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] | 18:47 | |
| -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-9-188.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 18:59 | |
| yashgaroth | kanzure: re that paper you linked me earlier, assuming all that stuff works well then sure, but there's still the issue of what peptides you're displaying, like where would you start | 19:11 |
| yashgaroth | horseradish peroxidase is absurdly easy to screen as well, but I won't fault them for that | 19:14 |
| kanzure | i dunno if you need to start anywhere in particular except something like "the cell does in fact leak some stuff once in a while" | 19:14 |
| kanzure | and "the cell in fact does know how to express shit on its surface, although not necessarily the stuff you want yet" | 19:14 |
| yashgaroth | it's certainly possible that they could evolve some sort of beneficial effect, I just have a hard time imagining it; now something like active membrane-bound TdT selection, that I can see | 19:17 |
| kanzure | heh | 19:17 |
| kanzure | well, hm | 19:17 |
| kanzure | would cell-membrane-expression of tdt be more useful than mRNA display of tdt | 19:17 |
| kanzure | or rather, i mean, easier | 19:17 |
| yashgaroth | assuming you can get it to stay active...I imagine being attached to an enormous cell would make it difficult to extend a bound oligo chain | 19:18 |
| kanzure | i feel like "cell display" would be a more well known technique (listed right next to "phage display" and "mRNA display") if that was a truly uesful technique, and afaik nobody lists "cell display" anywhere near those two? | 19:18 |
| yashgaroth | well, we use "nature's cell display" i.e. b-cell affinity maturation, all the time | 19:19 |
| yashgaroth | I imagine it can work a lot better in microfluidics, like the linked paper | 19:20 |
| kanzure | i like the idea of abusing cells because i only have to feed them rather than purify expensive reagents and shit | 19:21 |
| yashgaroth | purification is kind of a racket anyway, but cells do have an appeal; it's just a black box you have to deal with | 19:23 |
| kanzure | yields are definitely going to be lower with cells. hmm. | 19:23 |
| kanzure | well, i guess there's no real reason they have to be that much lower | 19:23 |
| kanzure | like you can imagine cells that can be grown to release lysozymes of enzymes | 19:24 |
| yashgaroth | lysozymes? | 19:26 |
| kanzure | er... there's some sort of vesicle thing. there are many such things. | 19:27 |
| yashgaroth | oh lysosomes | 19:27 |
| kanzure | most of these directed evolution projects look like a few rounds of selection | 19:29 |
| kanzure | i don't see any indication of replication periods or growth phases | 19:29 |
| kanzure | and meiosis/mating seems like a good thing to encourage for gene pool reasons... | 19:30 |
| yashgaroth | if you're working with variants in a single gene, meiotic recombination isn't gonna be too reliable, esp. if you want one variant per cell | 19:32 |
| kanzure | hm i don't know if i want one variant per cell | 19:32 |
| kanzure | i just care about phenotype only, right? | 19:32 |
| yashgaroth | ah, true | 19:32 |
| yashgaroth | in that case yes, yeast orgies in between selection rounds are advisable | 19:33 |
| kanzure | ah | 19:33 |
| kanzure | sounds easy enough | 19:34 |
| -!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:34 | |
| yashgaroth | just sayin', since cell-aided synthesis implies you'll be using TdT, at least start with that... otherwise you'll get bogged down funneling yeast into tiny tubes | 19:36 |
| kanzure | also thinking of this method just for more general reasons too | 19:37 |
| kanzure | there are many good reasons to have a cheap selection system for doing various interesting things, like fluorescent protein optimization stuff | 19:37 |
| yashgaroth | well in that case go ahead | 19:37 |
| kanzure | and you meant, above: start with tdt surface expression cheats? | 19:38 |
| yashgaroth | well, tdt stuff in general | 19:40 |
| yashgaroth | surface expression by itself is already a large challenge | 19:41 |
| kanzure | i think that cells are probably randomly expressing stuff on their surface by accident in many cases, the trick is to select for those mistakes | 19:42 |
| yashgaroth | a little bit, though it wouldn't be hard to insert a construct that'll make them do that | 19:43 |
| kanzure | yeah i seem to recall lots of random protein tags that tend to make things show up on the membrane surface? | 19:43 |
| kanzure | never used them though | 19:44 |
| kanzure | heh you can selectively pick cells to for meiosis | 19:45 |
| kanzure | ah here is a paper on microbial surface display things http://openwetware.org/images/1/18/Wu_SurfaceDisplay.pdf | 19:46 |
| kanzure | "A viable solution to address the limitations is through surface display of various cellulases, combined with fermentation genes in a robust organism, such as Saccharomyces cerevisiae. A recent paper comparing cellobiose usage by surface expressed versus secreted b-glucosidase demonstrated that expression on the yeast cell surface stabilized and increased specific activity of the enzyme [36]." | 19:49 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:ede2:4c1:f399:7525] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 19:51 | |
| kanzure | "Flagella are cell-surface appendages that serve the purpose of providing motility. The E. coli flagellar filaments, such as the FliCD proteins, have been exploited for the expression of foreign proteins and peptides [15,51]. The five FliD molecules that make up the capping structure at the end of the flagellum were used to display fibronectin, the collagen-binding YadA and the surface-layer (S-layer) protein, SlpA, of Lactobacillus ... | 19:53 |
| kanzure | ... brevis simultaneously [51]. The display of multiple degradative enzymes is advantageous for targeting sequential pollutant degradation or cellulose hydrolysis." | 19:53 |
| kanzure | "E. coli cells simultaneously expressing GFP intracellularly and streptavidin-binding peptide extracellularly with CPX were immobilized onto a microfabricated electrode array using positive dielectrophoresis (DEP), thus enabling each sensor element to be measured electrically for multiple ligand-display technology [59]." | 19:55 |
| kanzure | "Spores can survive indefinitely in a metabolically inactive state, stay intact for millions of years and resist temperatures as high as 90 8C [62]. B. subtilis spores displaying the tetanus toxin fragment C and using the spore outer coat protein CotB were used as live vaccines [62,63], as well as for screening of tetrameric streptavidin [64]. Another approach is the use of chemically pretreated and boiled L. lactis as a matrix to bind ... | 19:57 |
| kanzure | ... heterologous proteins externally [65]. The protein peptidoglycan hydrolase, AcmA, displays a-amylase and b-lactamase, as well as epitopes of the Plasmodium berghei malaria circumsporozoite protein antigen. Nasally immunized mice with the non-living, non-recombinant vaccine showed higher levels of immunoglobulin G (IgG)-specific serum antibodies after the second dosing than the subcutaneously immunized mice." | 19:57 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:3ca0:6da8:3368:9270] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:57 | |
| yashgaroth | haha man my internet is shit | 19:58 |
| kanzure | http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-01-12.log | 19:58 |
| yashgaroth | anyway yes cell surface display is fairly trivial, though a lot easier and more predictable in eukaryotes | 20:01 |
| kanzure | why's that? | 20:02 |
| yashgaroth | more reliable and better-understood pathways, though I suppose you can use bacteria if you want | 20:03 |
| kanzure | yeast sounds pretty damn convenient | 20:04 |
| kanzure | there might be some benefits to using multi-cellular eukaryotes | 20:04 |
| kanzure | related to specialization... maybe. | 20:04 |
| yashgaroth | whoa there buddy don't get carried away | 20:05 |
| yashgaroth | yeast are nice, if only because I don't think anyone can really sort bacteria | 20:05 |
| kanzure | the reason why cells were proposed is because they are pretty good at continuing to exist (whereas my supply of reagents.. is less good at this).. among other things.. and selection reasons. so things that are already using multiple cells might be even better at coming up with insane solutions to my insane problems. | 20:06 |
| yashgaroth | reagents mostly come from cells though, slap some tags on there and the purification's practically done | 20:08 |
| yashgaroth | also my connection is at the point where I have to read your message on the logs, then type in here and check the logs again to see if it went through | 20:09 |
| kanzure | eh then you should know that i'm gonna brb for a bit | 20:10 |
| yashgaroth | also generational rates of multicellular organisms are gonna be a lot lower than unicellular | 20:11 |
| yashgaroth | probably for the best, I'm gonna go light some votive candles | 20:12 |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@182.48.83.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 20:15 | |
| kanzure | i know there's atmospheric bacteria but is there atmospheric dna that people have studied? | 20:18 |
| yashgaroth | probably only what's inside the bacteria | 20:29 |
| kanzure | hmph | 20:29 |
| yashgaroth | though if we've learned anything about weird environments, there's sure to be viruses they prey on atmospheric bacteria | 20:31 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:3ca0:6da8:3368:9270] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 20:36 | |
| maaku | kanzure: I sent a certain JoshNH4H this way, I don't know if he's logged in to chat yet | 20:36 |
| maaku | he wants to work on self-replicating machines for space colonization | 20:37 |
| maaku | von neuman replicators and all that | 20:37 |
| kanzure | awesome i will be sure to brainwash him | 20:38 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:3ca0:6da8:3368:9270] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:39 | |
| maaku | heh :) | 20:40 |
| maaku | last I checked up on him he was a chemistry undergrad, although that was >4 years ago. not sure what he's up to now, but he's very proactive | 20:41 |
| kanzure | is this the irc type or the type that i have to convince to idle arounc | 20:42 |
| kanzure | *around | 20:42 |
| maaku | yeah he still needs to be convinced to use a bouncer :\ | 20:47 |
| fenn | i love when you plug a hard drive in, intending to make a backup, and it goes totally bonkers. very reassuring. | 20:47 |
| maaku | he's more of a web forum guy (that's how i met him) | 20:47 |
| maaku | fenn: ddrescue ftw | 20:48 |
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:50 | |
| fenn | the internal sata connector came loose i think | 20:50 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 20:50 | |
| nmz787 | .title http://articles.journalmtm.com/jmtm.3.1.3.pdf | 21:03 |
| yoleaux | nmz787: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page. | 21:03 |
| nmz787 | '3D PRINTED SMARTPHONE INDIRECT LENS ADAPTER FOR RAPID, HIGH QUALITY RETINAL IMAGING' | 21:03 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:3ca0:6da8:3368:9270] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 21:07 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@2606:6000:cb85:6a00:ed72:bc3:3538:3832] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:07 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-71-57-177-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:37 | |
| -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 22:44 | |
| -!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:45 | |
| -!- sheena [~home@S0106c8be196316d1.ok.shawcable.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:59 | |
| -!- pete4242 [~smuxi@46.233.112.63] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:30 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@182.48.83.100] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:39 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@182.48.83.100] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 23:40 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@182.48.83.100] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:51 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@182.48.83.100] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] | 23:52 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:55 | |
| --- Log closed Tue Jan 13 00:00:22 2015 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
