| --- Log opened Mon Jan 19 00:00:28 2015 | ||
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| nmz787 | some notes I started to jot down, not much but I spent 4 hours or so just on playing with ffmpeg and imagemagick and something called gifsicle to see how small I could get the animation http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Nmz787-brlcad | 02:03 |
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| nmz787 | .tell fenn: you might compare that animated GIF (600kB) to this MP4 (was 1MB when I uploaded it) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyrNamrEJGM (vid is 2X resolution, or was originally). I tried a lot but couldn't manage to get the filesize of the either formats any smaller with good enough quality (for the resolution it seems H264 beats whatever GIF stuff I tried). For the colors though (4 was what I was casting the GIF as) it seems the animation ... | 02:06 |
| yoleaux | nmz787: What kind of a name is "fenn:"?! | 02:06 |
| nmz787 | ... could be smaller, but idk. | 02:06 |
| nmz787 | .tell fenn you might compare that animated GIF (600kB) to this MP4 (was 1MB when I uploaded it) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyrNamrEJGM (vid is 2X resolution, or was originally). I tried a lot but couldn't manage to get the filesize of the either formats any smaller with good enough quality (for the resolution it seems H264 beats whatever GIF stuff I tried). For the colors though (4 was what I was casting the GIF as) it seems the animation ... | 02:06 |
| yoleaux | nmz787: I'll pass your message to fenn. | 02:06 |
| nmz787 | ... could be smaller, but idk. | 02:06 |
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| nmz787 | chris_99: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Nmz787-brlcad | 02:07 |
| * nmz787 sleeps | 02:07 | |
| chris_99 | cool | 02:08 |
| fenn | what kind of a name is fenn! | 02:10 |
| yoleaux | 10:06Z <nmz787> fenn: you might compare that animated GIF (600kB) to this MP4 (was 1MB when I uploaded it) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyrNamrEJGM (vid is 2X resolution, or was originally). I tried a lot but couldn't manage to get the filesize of the either formats any smaller with good enough quality (for the resolution it seems H264 beats whatever GIF stuff I tried). For the colors though (4 was what I was casting the GIF as … | 02:10 |
| yoleaux | ) it seems the animation ... | 02:10 |
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| fenn | nmz787: the gif looks bad because of mp4 compression artifacts. try screen capturing without compression and do gif conversion without dithering | 03:45 |
| fenn | also they look the same resolution to me | 03:45 |
| fenn | also better not to scale down the video because that causes antialiasing which gif format doesn't like | 03:47 |
| fenn | also see convert argument -fuzz (if you're using convert that is) | 03:48 |
| fenn | you shouldn't need to change the number of colors for something like this | 03:50 |
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| kanzure | "If Biocentrism is refuted, that is, if we find a primitive extraterrestrial lifeform, we will still hold to Intellicentrism and be proud to be the only and most intelligent species in the universe. The psychological and philosophical consequences of refuting Intellicentrism are much more radical and disrupting than those of refuting Biocentrism. Finding an extraterrestrial bacterium is indeed very different from finding advanced ... | 05:06 |
| kanzure | ... civilizations two billion years older than us." | 05:06 |
| kanzure | "How will the accelerating change we experience end up in thousands, millions or billions of years? An answer to this fascinating question could come if we find advanced ETI. Indeed, our cosmic cousins might give us a glimpse of our possible future on astronomical timescales (see e.g. Kardashev 1978). Such a search also makes sense scientifically, since, if ETIs exist, they are arguably much more advanced than us. " | 05:06 |
| kanzure | "A more concrete scientific application of black hole technology is to use them as telescopes or communication devices. How is it possible? An established consequence of general relativity theory is that light is bended by massive objects. This is known as gravitational lensing. For a few decades, researchers have proposed to use the Sun as a gravitational lens (see e.g. Von Eshleman 1979; Drake 1988). At 22.45AU and 29.59AU we have a ... | 05:07 |
| kanzure | ... focus for gravitational waves and neutrinos. Starting from 550AU, electromagnetic waves converge. Those focus regions offer one of the greatest opportunity for astronomy and astrophysics, offering gains from 2 to 9 orders of magnitude compared to Earth-based telescopes. Over the years, Claudio Maccone (2009) has detailed with great technical precision such a scientific mission, called FOCAL. It is also worth noting that such ... | 05:07 |
| kanzure | ... gravitational lensing could be used not only for observation, but also for communication. If we want to continue and improve our quest for understanding the cosmos, this mission is a great opportunity to complete our fuzzy astronomy with a focused one. In other words, the time may be ripe to put on our cosmic glasses and to use cosmic loudspeakers." | 05:07 |
| kanzure | haha 9 orders of magnitude | 05:08 |
| kanzure | "But other ETIs may already have binoculars. Indeed, it is easy to extrapolate the maximal capacity of gravitational lensing using instead of the Sun a much more massive object, i.e. a neutron star or a black hole. This would probably constitute the most powerful possible telescope. This possibility was envisioned –yet not developed– by Von Eshleman in (1991). Recently, Claudio Maccone (2012) studied the gravitational lensing ... | 05:09 |
| kanzure | ... potential of supermassive black holes, and showed that even intergalactic communication would be feasible thanks to them. He writes (Maccone 2012, 119–120) that: ``this line of thought clearly shows that the central massive black hole of every galaxy is by far the most important ‘‘resource’’ of that galaxy for SETI purposes. In fact, it is like the ‘‘central radio station’’ of that galaxy that every civilization ... | 05:09 |
| kanzure | ... living in that galaxy would like to control in order to keep in touch with other aliens living in nearby galaxies.``" | 05:09 |
| kanzure | "Since objects observed by gravitational lensing must be aligned, we can imagine an additional dilating and contracting focal sphere or artificial swarm around a black hole, thereby observing the universe in all directions and depths. Maybe such focal spheres are already in operation. The gains offered by such devices are largely unknown, but this is an exciting topic for an open minded researcher or a PhD student in general relativity." | 05:09 |
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| superkuh | The same can be said for suns. | 05:11 |
| superkuh | Oh. It was Maccone. So he knows. | 05:12 |
| kanzure | bitcoin-relevant comic ("genuine virtual leather") http://i.imgur.com/zgDo2Fs.png | 05:18 |
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| cluckj | kanzure, I think the terminology is a bit over my head in that pdf | 05:53 |
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| ebowden_ | Oh, hey cluckj. | 05:54 |
| cluckj | setting up a natural/artificial dichotomy is a problem though | 05:54 |
| cluckj | hi | 05:54 |
| ebowden_ | How goes that dissertation on amateur scientists? | 05:54 |
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| kanzure | cluckj: i think it was destructing that dichotomy? | 05:54 |
| cluckj | kanzure, nm it looks like they see that too | 05:54 |
| kanzure | got it | 05:55 |
| cluckj | yeah I just read further | 05:55 |
| kanzure | it is an interesting position for them to propose | 05:55 |
| cluckj | ebowden_, fairly to moderately fucked up at this point | 05:55 |
| ebowden_ | cluckj, why? | 05:55 |
| cluckj | infant care :) | 05:55 |
| kanzure | the principle of preferring simpler solutions would definitely not have you wondering whether or not stars are alien civilizations, but really you have no idea (your star is an alien civilization, so why would the others not be?) | 05:55 |
| cluckj | yes | 05:56 |
| ebowden_ | cluckj, what will happen to your academic career? | 05:56 |
| kanzure | i'm not really ure what to call that sort of observational retort to occam's razor | 05:56 |
| cluckj | ebowden_, I'm on paternity leave...so hopefully nothing | 05:56 |
| kanzure | *sure | 05:56 |
| kanzure | haha paternity leave is a myth | 05:56 |
| ebowden_ | Ah, ok. | 05:56 |
| cluckj | kanzure, maybe "occam's razor is not a sound scientific principle" | 05:56 |
| ebowden_ | Kanzure, ? | 05:56 |
| cluckj | also no shit, my committee expects me to be working while on leave | 05:57 |
| ebowden_ | God damn. | 05:57 |
| kanzure | cluckj: i forget what i was reading, but there was a good suggestion someone had like "occam's razor is fine as long as you also prefer solutions that explain the most observations as well" | 05:57 |
| cluckj | we're moving to philadelphia to be closer to our families, and hopefully the extra social support will let me get some work done while my partner is working | 05:57 |
| cluckj | lol | 05:58 |
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| cluckj | kanzure, why not just prefer the solutions that explain the most observations, regardless of complexity? | 05:58 |
| ebowden_ | cluckj, I've gotten $115 000 in scholarships to go to the University of Melbourne, the #1 ranked university in Australia. | 05:58 |
| cluckj | I don't agree with the fetishizing of simplicity that occam's razor produces | 05:59 |
| cluckj | occam's razor works great for bounded things, but rarely is anything that closed-off | 05:59 |
| cluckj | ebowden_, wow, congrats! | 05:59 |
| cluckj | paying nothing for your education is what's hot on the streets now :) | 06:00 |
| ebowden_ | I couldn't have done it without my Autism memory. :D | 06:00 |
| cluckj | haha | 06:00 |
| cluckj | fuck neurotypicals! | 06:00 |
| ebowden_ | I can recall almost everything I've seen in the last couple of days, and I accidentally memorised my brother's PIN. | 06:00 |
| ebowden_ | I felt bad and gave him my PIN. | 06:01 |
| cluckj | lol | 06:01 |
| cluckj | kanzure, okay that chapter took a pretty good turn with the Zen SETI and mentioning systems theory | 06:01 |
| ebowden_ | I can't wait to pet all those dogs in Melbourne. | 06:02 |
| ebowden_ | I really want to see a Basset Hound. I would play with those ears. | 06:03 |
| ebowden_ | They have a lot of ear. | 06:03 |
| cluckj | those are pretty sweet dogs | 06:03 |
| kanzure | cluckj: yeah, this is why i showed you it :p | 06:04 |
| cluckj | haha | 06:04 |
| kanzure | "zen seti" is a bad name though :( | 06:04 |
| cluckj | aw yiss complexity | 06:04 |
| ebowden_ | One mathematician I know said they had two moods: excited and happy. | 06:04 |
| kanzure | he was lying to get into your pants, ebowden_ | 06:04 |
| ebowden_ | LOL | 06:04 |
| cluckj | lol | 06:04 |
| kanzure | cluckj: so the paper presents an interesting problem about how to separate alien civilizations from other astrophysical phenomena | 06:05 |
| ebowden_ | Believe me, very few people would try and get in my pants. My ASD is not exactly hard to spot, and I'm not the most attractive specimen. | 06:06 |
| kanzure | i suspect that incorporating some alien-caused astrophysical phenomena could cause us to try to incorporate that as an astrophysical observation | 06:06 |
| kanzure | if all stars in the universe are teeming with old alien life then we are screwed on that front | 06:06 |
| cluckj | yeah | 06:06 |
| kanzure | although if the majority are not teeming with life then we have a chance because of large-scale statistical surveys of stellar phenomena | 06:06 |
| cluckj | yes...we already have tons of data | 06:06 |
| cluckj | the thing is also that we've only started getting good at finding planets (turns out there are a lot of them) | 06:07 |
| kanzure | that author's analogy about a river was a little troubling though (i don't know if it was in that section) | 06:07 |
| kanzure | regarding "things like to hang out in natural energy gradients anyway", which doesn't offer any observational criteria | 06:07 |
| kanzure | planetcentricism is boring | 06:07 |
| kanzure | nobody wants to live on planets | 06:08 |
| kanzure | it's a terrible idea | 06:08 |
| cluckj | I like my planet, it's where I keep all my stuff | 06:08 |
| kanzure | not for long | 06:08 |
| cluckj | kanzure, looking for conditions that produced life on Earth is kinda the thing we do | 06:09 |
| cluckj | since we haven't found any life that exists outside of our biosphere, we have literally no idea what any other life looks like | 06:09 |
| ebowden_ | http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/28157_895.jpg | 06:09 |
| cluckj | hahahaha | 06:09 |
| cluckj | kanzure, abstracting the search for life from "places that have conditions exactly the same as on Earth" to "places with natural energy gradients" is probably a good start | 06:10 |
| kanzure | if you continue reading he offers some evidence that some binary stars are likely consuming stars | 06:11 |
| cluckj | nice | 06:11 |
| kanzure | or maybe that was the previous section (9.3?) | 06:12 |
| cluckj | ooo ilya prigogine citation | 06:13 |
| kanzure | he definitely hits the right names.. he's like a less annoying version of john smart. | 06:14 |
| cluckj | hits the right citations and uses them in a productive way | 06:16 |
| cluckj | "I love this topic, but it stretches my brain beyond its capabilities" | 06:17 |
| cluckj | yep | 06:17 |
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| kanzure | interstellar bacteria and coal http://arxiv.org/pdf/1112.3937.pdf | 06:27 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: why the sudden interest in space stuff | 06:29 |
| kanzure | not a sudden interest | 06:30 |
| kanzure | if you mean why am i quoting interesting things, the primary reason is because extropy-chat was saying some strange things, and i remembered that someone tipped me off to black hole skeptics, so i went searching for papers written on black hole skepticism | 06:32 |
| kanzure | i have found at least one skeptic of black hole singularities, but not any skeptic of black holes entirely :| | 06:32 |
| cluckj | he's moving up his plans to be a space-based planetary intelligence | 06:34 |
| kanzure | also, the quotes from clement vidal are interesting because they are somewhat unique interpretations of previous important stuff | 06:36 |
| kanzure | or rather, not just unique, but correct | 06:36 |
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| JayDugger | :) | 07:04 |
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| p42___ | What was that game called where they hook two people up to EEG and see which one can calm their brain down faster/better? meditation wars or something? | 09:42 |
| p42___ | ah. found. http://www.gofundme.com/93jdlg | 09:43 |
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| kanzure | http://benclinkinbeard.com/posts/how-browserify-works/ | 10:04 |
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| delinquentme | who gud at fizix? | 11:53 |
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| justanotheruser | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmp9MXBbY_8 | 13:26 |
| yoleaux | [ASMR HD] Guinea pigs crunching a red bell pepper ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ - YouTube | 13:26 |
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| heath | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFe9wiDfb0E | 13:38 |
| yoleaux | Welcome to Life: the singularity, ruined by lawyers - YouTube | 13:38 |
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| kanzure | 13:47 < op_mul> kanzure: the categories are pretty damning. he also made his own mushroom farm to bootstrap the site. | 13:48 |
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| kanzure | genehacker: here is some black hole stuff http://arxiv.org/pdf/1104.4362.pdf | 14:42 |
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| ParahSailin | i saw a game like that at a sens conference | 15:13 |
| kanzure | "exhibit G: ross ulbricht talking like a pirate on the internet" | 15:14 |
| kanzure | should have been exhibit R | 15:14 |
| kanzure | (sbp made the exhibit R observation) | 15:14 |
| kanzure | http://www.scribd.com/doc/253100323/154-1United-States-v-Ross-William-Ulbricht-14-Cr-68 | 15:20 |
| kanzure | http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2sz298/united_states_vs_ross_william_ulbricht_us/ | 15:20 |
| jrayhawk | "Man DPR had rubbish opsec" well, that should've been obvious from the .php extension | 15:45 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: what about mounting your monitors in front of this http://www.findarcademachines.com/images2/fzero.jpg | 15:59 |
| genehacker | damn, why haven't I done that with my desk yet? | 16:00 |
| genehacker | it's all 80/20, and I need ideas | 16:00 |
| genehacker | crazy ideas | 16:00 |
| kanzure | http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/img/hovel/20120512_008.jpg | 16:00 |
| jrayhawk | findarcademachines.com has very dumb user agent restrictions | 16:01 |
| justanotheruser | http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/014/532/1374796030634.png | 16:01 |
| jrayhawk | that fzero thing is way too small | 16:01 |
| kanzure | right | 16:01 |
| jrayhawk | if ever i switch over to LCDs, the hog panel idea is an okay one | 16:02 |
| kanzure | genehacker: a few days ago i was telling jrayhawk to use chainlink fence | 16:02 |
| kanzure | er, right, we ended up on hog paneling | 16:02 |
| kanzure | and cast iron balconies | 16:02 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/img/hovel/20140725_003.jpg is the modern setup | 16:03 |
| superkuh | Huh. Looks like my old room. | 16:03 |
| superkuh | Very nice. | 16:04 |
| jrayhawk | my G220FB and one of my PCI Express card->1x adapters died | 16:05 |
| jrayhawk | makes me sad | 16:05 |
| superkuh | http://i.imgur.com/CO4kA.jpg | 16:05 |
| kanzure | http://i.imgur.com/dHurUjF.jpg | 16:05 |
| kanzure | damn it | 16:05 |
| superkuh | The one you linked was upstairs from the one I linked. | 16:05 |
| jrayhawk | hey that's like what i had in highschool | 16:06 |
| genehacker | I don't think my desk can support CRTs | 16:06 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/img/hovel/2004/IMG_0699.JPG | 16:06 |
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| justanotheruser | do you guys actually like that? | 16:06 |
| jrayhawk | like having pixels? | 16:06 |
| jrayhawk | yes | 16:06 |
| superkuh | These days I have 4x LCD that span my entire horizontal view. I could use more though. | 16:07 |
| justanotheruser | If you're going to set up 100 interconnected pieces of hardware, why not buy some shelves and desks to manage it | 16:07 |
| justanotheruser | that last pic is okay | 16:07 |
| jrayhawk | that said one $600 QHD screen could replace like six of those things | 16:07 |
| genehacker | it's the "let's stuff as many grad students in a room until we're barely in compliance with fire code" special | 16:07 |
| genehacker | except that it violates firecode | 16:07 |
| kanzure | no time for firecode man | 16:08 |
| kanzure | live dangerously. with pixels. | 16:08 |
| superkuh | Yeah. I got kicked out of the room I linked because I of the city inspector saying it didn't pass firecode. | 16:08 |
| superkuh | No big enough windows to escape. | 16:08 |
| nmz787_i | until your powerstrip is on fire | 16:08 |
| kanzure | allegedly on fire. | 16:08 |
| kanzure | man, i just found an old scifi notebook from when i was trapped in middle school for like 100 years | 16:10 |
| kanzure | "fucking masers, how the fuck do they work? fuck" | 16:10 |
| kanzure | sucks without internet | 16:10 |
| nmz787_i | sounds like real science | 16:10 |
| nmz787_i | and you thought it was fiction! | 16:10 |
| kanzure | i am very picky with my scifi | 16:10 |
| kanzure | in fact i am now so picky that i don't read any at all | 16:10 |
| kanzure | (maybe greg egan) | 16:11 |
| ParahSailin | i read that one with the vampires, but only because the whole thing was there on a website in one page | 16:11 |
| superkuh | I'm half way through the third book of Egan's "Orthogonal" series right now. It is refreshingly good after slogging through the mess that was Gibson's "The Peripheral". | 16:11 |
| p42___ | Iain m banks for me today | 16:12 |
| kanzure | nmz787_i: oops, to be more clear, i mean i am picky about hard scifi | 16:12 |
| kanzure | (ftl is a huge bore and better not be overused) | 16:12 |
| nmz787_i | I'd watch sci-comedy, I guess it would be better than 'Spaceballs' | 16:13 |
| genehacker | masers work just like lasers, except the frequency of radiation involved is in the microwave spectrum | 16:13 |
| nmz787_i | that was sci-sarcasm | 16:14 |
| genehacker | perhaps you should reread some vernor vinge | 16:14 |
| nmz787_i | anyone in here ever watch the old TV show 'Amos & Andy'? | 16:15 |
| genehacker | turings cathedral is pretty good, do you know they used to do CFD with rooms of people? | 16:15 |
| nmz787_i | they had a few sci-comedy skits, I guess | 16:15 |
| genehacker | futurama is pretty good sci-fi comedy, except it's probably dead now | 16:16 |
| nmz787_i | yeah that is a good one | 16:16 |
| genehacker | it is a trivial answer though | 16:16 |
| nmz787_i | "First they splits the atoms into monocles. Then they splits the monocles into morons, protons, and fig newtons." | 16:17 |
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| nmz787_i | hahah here is when that part of the sketch starts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrFiKcBdCx8#t=654 | 16:22 |
| nmz787_i | 'bubblin at 100 degrees centipede' | 16:23 |
| kanzure | genehacker: sheena would like a design for a canned cheese dog helmet | 16:23 |
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| genehacker | why? | 16:31 |
| nmz787_i | hmm, that episode is not the one where he mentions 'protons and morons' | 16:32 |
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| sheena | genehacker: to deliver food rewards to the dog remotely and in a contained-on-the-dog portable way | 16:34 |
| nmz787_i | what range? | 16:36 |
| nmz787_i | bluetooth, wifi, cell phone? | 16:36 |
| nmz787_i | the $5 wifi module I found last week can go up to 3 or 4 km with a parabolic antenna on the non-dog end | 16:36 |
| kanzure | communication is not the problem | 16:41 |
| nmz787_i | ah, ok, here is where the nuclear bit starts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85mqfJ-aZCQ#t=757 | 16:41 |
| kanzure | and communication is not genehacker's specialty | 16:41 |
| nmz787_i | then problem? | 16:41 |
| nmz787_i | it surely doesn't need nanobots | 16:41 |
| genehacker | you want it done with nanobots? | 16:41 |
| kanzure | no | 16:41 |
| genehacker | ok I'll do it | 16:41 |
| kanzure | things like remote triggering of nozzle of canned cheese | 16:41 |
| kanzure | e.g. which mechanism | 16:42 |
| kanzure | and also, suitable helmet designs | 16:42 |
| genehacker | hey I made a bluetooth controlled dog, I think I can communicate | 16:42 |
| kanzure | i didn't say you can't communicate :p just that it's not your specialty | 16:42 |
| genehacker | why not make bluetooth controlled cheese? | 16:42 |
| kanzure | specifically how do you automate the canned cheese dispensing action | 16:42 |
| genehacker | make the cheese photo responsive and shine a laser on it | 16:43 |
| nmz787_i | a solenoid? | 16:43 |
| kanzure | http://www.cheesewiki.com/system/images/2984/medium/istockphoto_598636-spray-cheese.jpg?1268294622 | 16:43 |
| nmz787_i | radiation, explode the can with EM | 16:43 |
| kanzure | http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GibT2_yvG_w/Tswb1j3o8OI/AAAAAAAABOk/HmW_7OVP8cw/s640/DSCF0382.JPG | 16:43 |
| nmz787_i | a heat ray could also pierce it | 16:43 |
| kanzure | diagram http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/aerosol-can-2.gif | 16:44 |
| kanzure | anyway normally you have to press it in a specific way | 16:44 |
| kanzure | and ideally there's a simple way to press it using some motion that i'm not familiar with | 16:44 |
| genehacker | photochromic molecules are used in some dyes, so we can probably make nanomachine cheese | 16:44 |
| nmz787_i | seems like a BYJ48 could do the trick, add a level to the end of the shaft to press the nozzle (down or sideways could work) | 16:44 |
| nmz787_i | s/level/lever/ | 16:45 |
| kanzure | why would a lever work? | 16:45 |
| nmz787_i | that's how my finger actuates the cheese sprays | 16:45 |
| kanzure | and also, how are you mounting the lever? | 16:45 |
| genehacker | Sweet someone's made casein MOFs | 16:46 |
| nmz787_i | idk some 3d-printed can-top snap-on thing | 16:46 |
| genehacker | we can make cheese MOFs! | 16:46 |
| kanzure | genehacker: this maybe of interest http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Enzymatic%20protecting%20group%20techniques.pdf | 16:47 |
| kanzure | *may be | 16:47 |
| genehacker | hey you got any protein design papers? | 16:47 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/protein-engineering/Design%20of%20protein%20function%20leaps%20by%20directed%20domain%20interface%20evolution.pdf | 16:47 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/protein-engineering/Surface-tethered%20protein%20switches.pdf | 16:47 |
| genehacker | any other like nanomachiney stuff? | 16:47 |
| kanzure | more specific plz | 16:48 |
| genehacker | like using rosetta to design proteins? | 16:48 |
| nmz787_i | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-iewm_fiIM | 16:48 |
| yoleaux | Arduino controlled spray can test - YouTube | 16:48 |
| nmz787_i | solenoid | 16:48 |
| kanzure | sheena: how about that? | 16:48 |
| kanzure | wait, what is that moving? | 16:49 |
| nmz787_i | solenoid | 16:49 |
| kanzure | it's pressing on.. something? | 16:49 |
| kanzure | i see a lid | 16:49 |
| kanzure | i think it's in the background. i don't know what this is. | 16:49 |
| kanzure | paperclip is pressing something... this is not how the spray cheese cans work. | 16:50 |
| sheena | yep, baseically | 16:50 |
| nmz787_i | this is a hack more off-the-shelf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywDsvSyLPAE | 16:50 |
| nmz787_i | using a bathroom smell thingy | 16:50 |
| nmz787_i | kanzure: it's just pressing the nozzle | 16:50 |
| kanzure | spray cheese can is also not a spray down | 16:50 |
| kanzure | whoops press down | 16:50 |
| nmz787_i | that is just the attack angle | 16:51 |
| sheena | right. press sideways ish | 16:51 |
| nmz787_i | you just rotate 90 degrees | 16:51 |
| kanzure | in the first video, where do you see the nozzle? it looks under the cap to me | 16:51 |
| nmz787_i | yes | 16:51 |
| kanzure | okay. so it's not pressing the nozzle then. | 16:51 |
| nmz787_i | but it is obv a press-down | 16:51 |
| sheena | the air freshener thing is interesting | 16:51 |
| nmz787_i | no one presses paint sprayers sideways | 16:51 |
| sheena | cause you'd think it sort of already comes with a "pres release" mechanism? | 16:51 |
| nmz787_i | that would not help aim | 16:51 |
| nmz787_i | yep | 16:51 |
| genehacker | just use the same mechanism used in graffiti bots | 16:51 |
| nmz787_i | they just added the control wire | 16:51 |
| kanzure | the canned cheese stuff is sideways-pressing. | 16:51 |
| kanzure | but it's not really.. pressing.. | 16:52 |
| kanzure | oh canned cheese is something else | 16:52 |
| sheena | graphiti bots? | 16:52 |
| genehacker | or a servo | 16:53 |
| kanzure | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvucTyrzCcI&t=50s | 16:53 |
| kanzure | sheena: hanging robots with only two axises. use trigonometry to control location on blackboard/whiteboard/surface. grafiti bot. | 16:53 |
| sheena | that said, there is no specific reason that it HAS to be easycheez | 16:53 |
| sheena | some other dispenser could work | 16:54 |
| kanzure | i thought it had to be easy cheeze because you couldn't find others | 16:54 |
| nmz787_i | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqEeLP9TBtI | 16:54 |
| nmz787_i | that is more a water sprayer type | 16:54 |
| kanzure | haha rubber bands | 16:54 |
| kanzure | welp okay | 16:54 |
| kanzure | anyway the mount is also an issue | 16:54 |
| kanzure | helmet mount i mean | 16:55 |
| nmz787_i | another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1G8g6APN1Y | 16:55 |
| genehacker | http://www.appliedautonomy.com/images/gw_diagram2.gif | 16:55 |
| genehacker | I was thinking something like this | 16:55 |
| genehacker | yeah you need to be real careful with electrical stuff on dogs | 16:55 |
| genehacker | dogs aren't gonna complain about stuff getting too hot or what not | 16:56 |
| kanzure | right... get an arduino kit (or whatever you pick) with thermometers. | 16:56 |
| nmz787_i | I doubt anything would get too hot | 16:57 |
| sheena | yeah, and can jut put like, foam in betwen? | 16:57 |
| nmz787_i | especially if you used a geared motor | 16:57 |
| nmz787_i | geared motor could also help if the sprayer were to get stuck... you'd want to be able to force it to the 'home' position | 16:58 |
| nmz787_i | while a solenoid might not have enough spring-back, idk | 16:58 |
| kanzure | basically what you need is one of these for a dog http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bella/BeerHelmet-001.jpg | 16:58 |
| kanzure | except a more solid helmet frame | 16:58 |
| kanzure | and also pointing the can in the right direction | 16:59 |
| nmz787_i | or like this http://blackridgekennel.weebly.com/uploads/2/1/2/4/21244842/9152393_orig.jpg | 16:59 |
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| sheena | under the neck is tricky | 16:59 |
| sheena | its a toughs pot to mount because it tends to move a lot | 16:59 |
| nmz787_i | except instead of booze/beer (or does it contain rootbeer normally in that little keg?) it would be cheese spray | 16:59 |
| nmz787_i | heh, might also just get the dog all messy with cheese | 17:00 |
| kanzure | cheese is for the dog, booze is for the humans the dog finds | 17:00 |
| nmz787_i | the other dogs would be attacking/licking it | 17:00 |
| nmz787_i | unless the dog is an alcoholic | 17:00 |
| nmz787_i | heh | 17:00 |
| genehacker | the dog will probably learn how to trigger the easy cheese mechanism without human intervention | 17:01 |
| kanzure | that's the point | 17:01 |
| kanzure | human remotely triggers | 17:01 |
| genehacker | notice I said without human intervention | 17:02 |
| kanzure | destroy mechanism = human takes it away | 17:02 |
| genehacker | as in rub mechanism against pole | 17:02 |
| kanzure | this would be used during training sessions | 17:03 |
| kanzure | with a person hanging around | 17:03 |
| nmz787_i | well a metal/plastic cage around the can and top/mechanism could probably fix that | 17:04 |
| nmz787_i | I am thinking a spray-paint can cap, but with a motor and circuit in it | 17:04 |
| kanzure | (things like branches can get through the edge. dogs are smarter than me.) | 17:05 |
| kanzure | s/edge/gaps | 17:05 |
| kanzure | ah i see | 17:05 |
| kanzure | yeah an additional plastic top could work, as long as it does not obstruct cheese flow | 17:05 |
| nmz787_i | I think a custom spray top would be smart | 17:08 |
| nmz787_i | that way sheena could just pull it off and pop it on a new can in a snap | 17:08 |
| sheena | right | 17:08 |
| sheena | yeah, something to protect the helmet from dispensing cheese to the dog would be useful | 17:09 |
| sheena | and possibly, having the unit/can mount on the dog's back, with some sort of... dispenser tube ish? to the head? | 17:09 |
| nmz787_i | would it shoot the cheese onto the ground, or would there be a nozzle wrapping around towards the mouth? | 17:10 |
| kanzure | i don't think there would be enough pressure in the normal cans for that, you would have to make your own aerosolized cheese | 17:10 |
| kanzure | i am saying the wrong thing | 17:11 |
| kanzure | pretend i have said the right thing | 17:11 |
| nmz787_i | I think the problem with it being mounted on the back would be pressure to push it through all the tubing, and also you have a lot of wasted cheese stuck in all that tubing when the can runs out (if it is OK pressure) | 17:12 |
| kanzure | if you were really fucking crazy, you could have injection of cheese followed by air to push the cheese | 17:13 |
| nmz787_i | why not have something that drops a kibble-or-bit? | 17:13 |
| kanzure | but... pneumatics... and stuff. | 17:13 |
| nmz787_i | surely corn is cheaper than fake-dairy | 17:13 |
| justanotheruser | kragen: hello | 17:14 |
| sheena | lol | 17:17 |
| kanzure | now that i think about it, we should encourage sheena to make complex pneumatics because why not | 17:17 |
| sheena | the idea of something lickable ist hat we can dispense it basically to the dog's mouth and they dont have to CATCH it/find it etc | 17:17 |
| sheena | i have a stationary kibble-dropper thing already | 17:17 |
| kanzure | for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-Ur-UamQS0 | 17:18 |
| kanzure | .title | 17:18 |
| yoleaux | Pneumatic Driven Animatronic Dilophosaurus - YouTube | 17:18 |
| justanotheruser | Following the scrollback is impossible in here | 17:18 |
| kanzure | try reading in the other direction | 17:19 |
| justanotheruser | I have to figure out where to start | 17:19 |
| justanotheruser | It's O(N) either way | 17:19 |
| kanzure | genehacker: yeah i guess i should find some better rational protein design papers... my collection sucks. | 17:20 |
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| kragen | justanotheruser: hello | 17:21 |
| justanotheruser | kragen: I heard you were the go to guy for mechanical computing | 17:21 |
| genehacker | mechanical computing? | 17:22 |
| genehacker | what do you want to do? | 17:22 |
| kragen | no, I've never made any mechanical computing devices | 17:22 |
| kanzure | faceface: do you know any particularly great reviews of rational protein design? | 17:22 |
| justanotheruser | 11:43 < justanotheruser> Okay, so this is a bit of a crazy idea, but I want to mechanically evaluate a round of sha2. Has anyone here done any mechanical computing? | 17:22 |
| kanzure | kragen is too modest | 17:22 |
| justanotheruser | 11:46 < kanzure> bug kragenjaviersita | 17:22 |
| justanotheruser | I don't know what javiersita is, but I assume thats you | 17:22 |
| justanotheruser | I was thinking balls roll down and form a bit vector every inch going down and each inch an operation is performed on those balls | 17:23 |
| justanotheruser | Bitshifts are easy. Xoring two values may be harder | 17:23 |
| cluckj | eh heh heh twiddling balls | 17:23 |
| justanotheruser | pls | 17:23 |
| genehacker | so back when they where making the atomic bomb, to do shockwave simulations, they used a bunch of people operating IBM mechanical calculators | 17:23 |
| genehacker | how many bits? | 17:23 |
| justanotheruser | genehacker: sha256(sha256(an 80 byte value)) | 17:24 |
| kanzure | kragen out of all of us is probably the one who remembers the widest range of ridiculous ways to implement computing | 17:24 |
| justanotheruser | I want to make a bitcoin mining ASIC that consumes no electricity | 17:24 |
| kanzure | do you even know what energy is | 17:24 |
| justanotheruser | sure | 17:25 |
| kanzure | are you trying to avoid electrons entirely? | 17:25 |
| justanotheruser | I didn't say it didn't use energy | 17:25 |
| kanzure | can it use electrons? | 17:25 |
| justanotheruser | It will probably have a motor, but I might be able to get around that | 17:25 |
| justanotheruser | hand cranked asic | 17:25 |
| genehacker | 80 bytes with marbles is %@!%##$@!$#!%$@!%@#%$ing huge | 17:26 |
| kanzure | here you go http://www.adafruit.com/product/1462 | 17:26 |
| kanzure | .title | 17:26 |
| yoleaux | Pocket Socket 2 - Hand-Crank Power Outlet ID: 1462 - $64.95 : Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits | 17:26 |
| justanotheruser | genehacker: is it really that big? 1/4 inch marbles * 80 * 8 = 160 inches of marbles, | 17:26 |
| kragen | you can definitely do balls. there are lots sof examples | 17:26 |
| kanzure | 1 marble is not a byte | 17:26 |
| kragen | on youtube | 17:26 |
| justanotheruser | kragen: there are examples of bitwise operations on balls? | 17:27 |
| kragen | yeah | 17:27 |
| justanotheruser | I could only find addition | 17:27 |
| genehacker | yeah, because you need more space than just a marble | 17:27 |
| cluckj | why not use microfludics and water or something? | 17:27 |
| kragen | that already gives you XOR and AND :) | 17:27 |
| genehacker | yes | 17:27 |
| genehacker | digicomp ii | 17:27 |
| justanotheruser | genehacker: I also have more than 2 dimensions | 17:27 |
| justanotheruser | cluckj: is that feasible | 17:27 |
| cluckj | idk | 17:27 |
| kragen | I think the best solution is probably a two-dimensional cam | 17:27 |
| genehacker | http://l3d.cs.colorado.edu/~ctg/classes/ttt2003/constructionkits/marblelogic.pdf | 17:27 |
| kanzure | you only need xor and not | 17:28 |
| justanotheruser | genehacker: nice | 17:28 |
| kanzure | actually i forget. i wish i could remember. | 17:28 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: but to save space it is nice to have others | 17:28 |
| kragen | no, both xor and not are linear, kanzure | 17:28 |
| kragen | so together they are not universal | 17:28 |
| kanzure | which ones am i trying to remember? | 17:28 |
| kragen | probably nand | 17:28 |
| kanzure | fuck | 17:28 |
| justanotheruser | genehacker: exactly what I'm looking for | 17:28 |
| kragen | I mean there are a lot of minimal sets of gates | 17:28 |
| kragen | the thing about marble logic is that it's unreliable and slow. | 17:29 |
| genehacker | there's also leibniz's plans for a marble computer | 17:29 |
| justanotheruser | o_o | 17:29 |
| genehacker | *proposed marble computer | 17:30 |
| justanotheruser | how many bits? | 17:30 |
| genehacker | he proposed a shift register | 17:30 |
| genehacker | and that's about it | 17:30 |
| justanotheruser | oh | 17:30 |
| kragen | let me tell you about cams | 17:31 |
| justanotheruser | please do | 17:31 |
| kragen | a typical cam gives you an arbitrary one-dimensional function of time | 17:31 |
| kanzure | leibniz had a marble computer plan? | 17:31 |
| justanotheruser | excuse my ignorance, what is a cam | 17:31 |
| kanzure | cc nsh | 17:32 |
| genehacker | http://history-computer.com/Dreamers/Leibniz.html | 17:32 |
| kragen | first watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux2KW20nqHU | 17:32 |
| genehacker | why a barrel cam? | 17:32 |
| genehacker | how are you going to use that for sha2? | 17:32 |
| kragen | genehacker: barrel cam (or their non-cylindrical kin) give you fan-in of two arbitrary variables | 17:32 |
| kragen | producing an arbitrary finite map | 17:33 |
| genehacker | is that all you need for sha2? | 17:33 |
| genehacker | a function of two variables? | 17:33 |
| kragen | which is to say, a single barrel cam per output can emulate any combinational circuit | 17:33 |
| genehacker | cams are also a bitch to design and machine | 17:33 |
| justanotheruser | kragen: I see it but I don't understand it | 17:33 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/rnz/verilog-sha256 | 17:33 |
| kragen | yes, they are | 17:34 |
| kragen | you want to, as the Writer Automaton does, lift the follower and set it down once the cam is in the appropriate position | 17:34 |
| kragen | so that it doesn't have to be a continuou function | 17:34 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux2KW20nqHU | 17:34 |
| yoleaux | Jaquet Droz The Writer Automaton From 1774 In Action: Inspired Hugo Movie - YouTube | 17:34 |
| kragen | that gets rid of most of the trickiness about cams | 17:34 |
| justanotheruser | kragen: so basically it is a turing incomplete mechanical circuit? | 17:34 |
| kragen | well, it's not just Turing-incomplete; it's memoryles | 17:35 |
| genehacker | hey if the number of positions can be discretized it might be easier | 17:35 |
| kragen | exactly! | 17:35 |
| kragen | if you combine it with a memory element, you can get an arbitrary finite state machine | 17:35 |
| justanotheruser | kragen: is this somehow less complex than the marble scheme? | 17:36 |
| kragen | it's dramatically less moving parts | 17:36 |
| genehacker | yeah, except now it's analog | 17:36 |
| kragen | a single lookup table part can do a 4-bit output from two 4-bit input | 17:36 |
| kragen | with an arbitrary truth table | 17:36 |
| kragen | it's only analog until you discretize the number of positions! | 17:36 |
| kragen | of course you need multiple layers of cams to fan-in more than two independent inputs | 17:36 |
| genehacker | so how do you represent a number on a cam? | 17:37 |
| justanotheruser | kragen: are you sure this is easier? It seems using mapping to solve sha256 would be difficult | 17:37 |
| justanotheruser | I mean, xoring two 256 bit values together would have 256 separate maps (xor functions) Or each byte would have a map? | 17:38 |
| kragen | genehacker: if you have 16 discrete positions in each of X and Y (or X and θ) and in Z (or R), each one can be considered to encode four bits | 17:38 |
| kragen | I think probably each nibble | 17:38 |
| kragen | although if you can get 256 reliably discrete levels in each dimension then you can do it per byte | 17:39 |
| kragen | I mean you can just make a heightfield where Z = X ^ Y | 17:40 |
| kragen | and it doesn't matter what its height is at places in between the integral X and Y points; you could drill 256 holes of varying depths in a block, say | 17:40 |
| genehacker | well if you have 16 discrete y positions why not just 16 rolls of paper tape? | 17:41 |
| justanotheruser | hmm | 17:41 |
| kragen | so instead of 8 marbles zipping around on tracks and weighing down 4 levers, you have a single needle being pushed down into a single hole | 17:41 |
| kragen | yeah, paper tape is totally applicable too, but you only get one bit of output per probe needle, of course | 17:42 |
| kragen | instead of maybe 16 or 32 | 17:42 |
| justanotheruser | kragen: so you think it is less complex to have a mapping for 256 bits than to have >=256 marbles moving down? | 17:42 |
| kragen | right | 17:42 |
| genehacker | how about 1 however many bit you want paper tape reader that you move among tape rolls | 17:42 |
| kragen | that doesn't give you much fan-in or -out | 17:43 |
| kragen | justanotheruser: and you can make all the relevant motions positively forced, with stiff springs in some cases if you wish | 17:43 |
| kragen | instead of relying on the very small weight of the marble | 17:43 |
| kragen | and depending on potentially chaotic marble collisions | 17:43 |
| justanotheruser | kragen: so when doing xor, you have a mapping for each bit pair for each of the 256 bits? | 17:43 |
| justanotheruser | or 4-bit set? | 17:44 |
| genehacker | it doesn't seem right that sha2 can be implemented with a big look up table | 17:44 |
| justanotheruser | genehacker: that is what I'm concerned with. I think it would involve many small lookup tables. | 17:44 |
| kragen | you need several layers of lookup tables with clocks moving data between them | 17:44 |
| kragen | justanotheruser: http://youtu.be/s1i-dnAH9Y4?t=10m4s shows barrel cams | 17:44 |
| justanotheruser | kragen: clocks? | 17:44 |
| kragen | justanotheruser: yeah, like in a synchronous logic circuit | 17:45 |
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| justanotheruser | kragen: interesting... so I can buy these and just put them together? | 17:45 |
| kragen | no | 17:45 |
| justanotheruser | Oh, I thought xor might be sold | 17:46 |
| kragen | because you have to cut the cam | 17:46 |
| justanotheruser | you think I could 3d print them? | 17:46 |
| kragen | I think so, yes | 17:46 |
| justanotheruser | hmm | 17:46 |
| kragen | although I haven't been very successful at that yet :) | 17:46 |
| justanotheruser | know anyone documenting a similar project? | 17:46 |
| kragen | no | 17:46 |
| justanotheruser | thats too bad | 17:46 |
| justanotheruser | know of anyone documenting their design of a single cam that takes a few inputs? | 17:47 |
| genehacker | well if you want to do it with air or water, you can buy fluidic logic gates | 17:48 |
| justanotheruser | genehacker: those exist? | 17:48 |
| kragen | can you? Air Logic stopped listing them on their web site a few years back | 17:48 |
| genehacker | damn? really? | 17:48 |
| kragen | there used to even be fluidic integrated circuits in missile control | 17:48 |
| justanotheruser | are they just for novelty? | 17:48 |
| kragen | yeah :( | 17:48 |
| kragen | no, they're rad-hard and vibration-proof | 17:48 |
| kragen | and EMP-hard | 17:48 |
| genehacker | or applications with weird requirements | 17:49 |
| justanotheruser | interesting.. | 17:49 |
| genehacker | like spark sensitive stuff, or fountains | 17:49 |
| kragen | also in the 1960s you could make fluidic logic ICs a lot more easily than semiconductor ICs | 17:49 |
| genehacker | there's a patent for conway's game of life in a fountain | 17:49 |
| kragen | yeah, and they don't spark | 17:49 |
| kragen | really? cool! | 17:49 |
| genehacker | http://www.google.com/patents/EP1851447A1?cl=en | 17:50 |
| genehacker | oh wait this one | 17:51 |
| genehacker | http://www.google.com/patents?id=2ZjRAAAAEBAJ | 17:51 |
| kragen | but yeah, until about ten or fifteen years ago you could still even buy 1kHz gates with no moving parts from Air Logic | 17:51 |
| genehacker | oh wow | 17:52 |
| kanzure | .title | 17:52 |
| yoleaux | Patent US7735749 - Display fountain, system, array and wind detector - Google Patents | 17:52 |
| genehacker | I should see about making a really loud fluidic sound amplifier | 17:52 |
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| kragen | I think one of those was used in a World's Fair in the 1950s or 60s | 17:53 |
| kragen | I've heard rumors that fluidic pumping is used in nuclear power plants at times | 17:53 |
| kragen | thus avoiding having moving parts in a place where there's too much radioactivity to replace them easily | 17:54 |
| genehacker | it is, and I have a picture of the circuit they used, but can't figure out what type of amplifier they used | 17:57 |
| genehacker | fluidic pumping is | 17:57 |
| genehacker | and is supposedly part of the nuclear poisoning system for shut down | 17:57 |
| kanzure | i also like laser-based pumping: | 17:59 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/Whole%20Blood%20Pumped%20by%20Laser%20Driven%20Micropump.pdf | 17:59 |
| kanzure | genehacker: btw it turns out that nobody has done lots of directed evolution microfluidic chips. nobody has done multi-generation mutation and mieosis. | 18:00 |
| genehacker | neat | 18:01 |
| kanzure | rather huge oversight | 18:01 |
| kanzure | instead of doing rational protein design you can just make the cells figure it out | 18:02 |
| genehacker | dammit | 18:03 |
| genehacker | so evolution just works too | 18:04 |
| genehacker | well, which is why I only get stuff from creationists when I google protein design | 18:04 |
| genehacker | oh wait got it | 18:04 |
| genehacker | http://catbert.cs.duke.edu/~brd/Teaching/Previous/Bio/Readings/mayo.pdf | 18:05 |
| kragen | justanotheruser: there are lot of other possibilities out there | 18:08 |
| kragen | Merkle wrote a thing about buckling-spring gates back in the 90s because people were complaining that rod logic was too dissipative | 18:09 |
| kragen | so he came up with a reversible solid-state mechanical computing design | 18:09 |
| kragen | basically a clocked (of course) majority-rule gate with three or more inputs, which can be constants | 18:09 |
| justanotheruser | kragen: do you have some resource to read if I want to design a cam? | 18:10 |
| genehacker | I don't get buckling logic | 18:13 |
| genehacker | do you have to do some weird sequencing stuff? | 18:14 |
| genehacker | http://books.google.com/books/about/Cam_Design_and_Manufacturing_Handbook.html?id=fK_Q3XNEpMAC | 18:14 |
| justanotheruser | looking at that first video, I thought the cams were going to be super complex and impossibel to design, but that Navy video makes them look a bit simpler | 18:14 |
| genehacker | cams are deceptively simple | 18:14 |
| genehacker | cam design for battleships: | 18:16 |
| genehacker | http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=366850 | 18:16 |
| genehacker | battleship fire control mechanisms http://www.maritime.org/doc/op1140/ | 18:18 |
| genehacker | so kragen, how does buckling logic work? | 18:18 |
| genehacker | do you have to use sequence the input in the opposite order to how it came in? | 18:19 |
| kanzure | genehacker: do you have a particular rational protein design problem in mind? | 18:19 |
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| genehacker | no | 18:20 |
| genehacker | just looking at the approaches used | 18:20 |
| kanzure | at the moment i am not aware of any fully general methods, only stuff like "steal residues from similar proteins" and "combinatorially try all possible mutants of these particular residues that you have already identified" | 18:20 |
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| genehacker | just looking for stuff about designing nanomachines with computers | 18:20 |
| genehacker | or other mechanical molecules | 18:22 |
| kanzure | there are protein factories with multiple steps, http://www.pnas.org/content/101/44/15585/F1.large.jpg | 18:22 |
| kanzure | (nonribosomal peptidyl synthetases) | 18:22 |
| genehacker | were they designed by computers? | 18:23 |
| kanzure | no, but they are modular and you can pick-and-choose the modules (steps) | 18:23 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonribosomal_peptide | 18:23 |
| kanzure | "These enzymes represent some of the largest proteins known, and, as a consequence of their multifunctional character, a single protein can catalyze dozens of discrete biochemical reactions. For example, the rapamycin PKS (3) and cyclosporin NRPS (4) catalyze 51 and 40 steps in assembly of their respective products." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC152231/ | 18:24 |
| justanotheruser | btw, while paperbots out of commission, I can help with most paper searches you can't find on libgen | 18:24 |
| kanzure | genehacker: the sorts of rational protein design that works very well right now are the types involving binding affinity | 18:27 |
| kragen | genehacker: sorry, on phone | 18:29 |
| kragen | Merkle's article is great | 18:29 |
| kanzure | 2d protein grids http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0958166913007015 | 18:32 |
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| kanzure | "The Victor library (Virtual Construction Toolkit for Proteins) is an open-source project dedicated to providing tools for analyzing and manipulating protein structures" http://protein.bio.unipd.it/victor/index.php/Main_Page | 18:39 |
| kanzure | will cgi ever die http://protein.bio.unipd.it/victor/index.php/Applications | 18:40 |
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| kanzure | .title http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00894-014-2067-1 | 18:57 |
| yoleaux | Parallel implementation of 3D protein structure similarity searches using a GPU and the CUDA - Springer | 18:57 |
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| kanzure | it's too bad that the protein structure prediction people aren't attempting to go in the generative direction | 19:41 |
| kanzure | also they should focus on subsets of protein structures that are easier to predict | 19:41 |
| kanzure | if it is necessary to ban certain residues then they should just do that | 19:41 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: where do I go to find a paper if libgen doesn't have it and paperbot doesn't exist? | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | I can sometimes get things | 19:54 |
| nmz787 | there's also a facebook group, but i think they closed new memberships | 19:54 |
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| kanzure | justanotheruser: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/articles/ | 20:00 |
| kanzure | http://www.binpress.com/blog/2014/07/29/binpress-podcast-episode-4-julian-lam-nodebb/ | 20:02 |
| nmz787 | nice | 20:03 |
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| kanzure | that was my scene in 2002 | 20:06 |
| kanzure | i was peddling my own forum software, raking in da cash | 20:06 |
| kanzure | (it was a pile of sql injection vulnerabilities with a big giant smiley face painted over it basically) | 20:06 |
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| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23s9Wc3aWGY&feature=youtu.be&t=11m44s | 20:32 |
| yoleaux | Slightly Advanced Python: Some Python Internals - YouTube | 20:32 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: oh no, sci-hub gave me a ! Ошибка при скачивании статьи | 20:34 |
| kanzure | yeah she hates you because you don't donate | 20:35 |
| justanotheruser | does paperbot use anything but libgen and if so, why isn't she here? | 20:36 |
| kanzure | i was not talking about paperbot | 20:37 |
| kanzure | but, as for paperbot, all of the information you need is in the source code. prior to nmz787's additions, it was not using ec2. | 20:38 |
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| justanotheruser | woot, got it | 20:42 |
| justanotheruser | when is your world wide database of files gonna be available? | 20:43 |
| nmz787 | as soon as people figure out living AI-crypto and deploy it | 20:43 |
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| kanzure | stalkmatrix has 30581 unique tags (which are used to tag conversations) | 21:10 |
| kanzure | 2248 of those tags are unique names of other people | 21:10 |
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| nmz787 | sheena: how much would you want to pay for each dog cheese head gear? how much do you think other people would willingly pay? | 21:26 |
| sheena | the kibble machine things are between 100 and 400 bucks | 21:26 |
| sheena | and people buy them | 21:26 |
| sheena | it would depend how reliable and useful it was, and size of dog is a huge issue... dogs range a lot | 21:27 |
| kragen | are you going to rake in da cash peddling your own kibble machine? | 21:28 |
| kanzure | kragen: if you have weird questions to ask me about my distribution of tags now would be the time to ask | 21:29 |
| kanzure | (i just took the unique list of conversation tags) | 21:29 |
| kragen | I assume it's Zipfian | 21:33 |
| kragen | ? | 21:33 |
| kanzure | zipfian is about frequencies on word utterance not word length | 21:34 |
| kanzure | right? | 21:34 |
| kanzure | zipf's law i mean | 21:34 |
| kragen | yeah, frequencies | 21:37 |
| kanzure | i sort of tossed that data, i should do a better parse soonish | 21:38 |
| kanzure | i have some old tools for parsing my data but they kinda suck | 21:38 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/meetlog/tag-excerpts/longest-tags.txt | 21:39 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/meetlog/tag-excerpts/bio.txt | 21:41 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/meetlog/tag-excerpts/dna.txt | 21:41 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/meetlog/tag-excerpts/time.txt | 21:42 |
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| nmz787 | sheena: do the cheese helmets exist? would other people find them useful? | 21:53 |
| sheena | they dont exist, and i think so | 21:53 |
| kanzure | apparently most dog trainers don't have any money | 21:53 |
| nmz787 | except the law enforcement trainers | 21:54 |
| kanzure | how many of those exist? | 21:55 |
| sheena | thats not true | 21:55 |
| sheena | they just dont spend money on the things you come up with :P | 21:55 |
| sheena | law enforcement would be unlikely to be interested | 21:55 |
| sheena | most of their training relies on shock collars | 21:56 |
| nmz787 | I can see the 3D-printed part in my head... now if I only could use BRL-CAD... | 21:57 |
| * nmz787 goes back to Ion Activity calculations | 21:58 | |
| kanzure | you would probably just sell the head mounts and transmitter/receiver/cheese, and then leave them to come up with their own helmets (velcro?) | 21:58 |
| kanzure | or you could sell helmets, but since doggy head size varies so much i don't see that working out well | 21:59 |
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| nmz787 | I think I could come up with a can-head-remote-squirter | 22:00 |
| nmz787 | bluetooth or wifi? I think wifi might be longer range, but also probably more power-hungry than bluetooth low energy | 22:01 |
| nmz787 | a battery would be required | 22:01 |
| sheena | bluetooth should be suffient? | 22:01 |
| nmz787 | which could probably fit in the can head | 22:01 |
| sheena | dog head size is the biggest problem | 22:01 |
| nmz787 | I'll leave that part up to you | 22:02 |
| sheena | there are dogs who would be too small for the aparatus, i expect | 22:02 |
| nmz787 | cheese cans are pretty standard size | 22:02 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 22:02 |
| nmz787 | they might need a backpack | 22:02 |
| nmz787 | :p | 22:02 |
| nmz787 | a chihuahua | 22:02 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 22:02 |
| nmz787 | implant an electrode into it too | 22:03 |
| nmz787 | and watch to see if it learns how to control it via cheese-feedback | 22:03 |
| sheena | nmz787: cost to working prototype estimate? | 22:03 |
| nmz787 | not including CAD time and 3D printing (which should be like $15 to $45 I think), the electronics should be under $100, and likely $40 ish | 22:04 |
| nmz787 | and there is easily room to cut that in half | 22:04 |
| sheena | so say, $80 in parts/material to something i could TRY to see if its even a workable idea? | 22:05 |
| nmz787 | I think so | 22:05 |
| sheena | seems reasonable | 22:05 |
| nmz787 | I think the can head would be a geared motor with a cam, which effects a sliding thing that tilts the cheese nozzle | 22:05 |
| sheena | how would it work? do you have more ideas than "it would work"? lol | 22:05 |
| sheena | lol as you answer my question | 22:05 |
| sheena | that makes sense | 22:06 |
| nmz787 | the sliding thing should be a U shape, so it can pull the cheese nozzle back to center | 22:06 |
| sheena | ok | 22:06 |
| nmz787 | geeared motor not required | 22:06 |
| sheena | so like, ON/OFF | 22:06 |
| sheena | not like "Go" (on, off sequence on its own) | 22:06 |
| nmz787 | but probably will make it lower current requirement | 22:06 |
| nmz787 | well the gears would park the nozzle | 22:06 |
| sheena | lower current = better? cheaper? battery life? | 22:06 |
| nmz787 | so it could stick ON if the power was cut at the right moment | 22:07 |
| sheena | ok | 22:07 |
| sheena | cool | 22:07 |
| nmz787 | (wrong moment?) | 22:07 |
| sheena | the ability to have like | 22:07 |
| sheena | "continuous cheese" | 22:07 |
| sheena | would be useful perhaps | 22:07 |
| nmz787 | lower current means cheaper battery in general | 22:07 |
| nmz787 | but during park with the geared, the motor wouldn't use any current | 22:08 |
| nmz787 | unlike a solenoid | 22:08 |
| nmz787 | which is ON/OFF | 22:08 |
| nmz787 | (while geared motor would be forward, off, backward, off) | 22:08 |
| nmz787 | and the off time could be controlled by a phone finger-press being held down | 22:08 |
| nmz787 | (for the middle off) | 22:09 |
| nmz787 | (this is way more fun than chemistry) | 22:09 |
| sheena | hehe | 22:09 |
| sheena | http://www.elitek9.com/Head-Mounted-Dog-Camera-System/productinfo/DCS/ these guys probably know their shit | 22:09 |
| sheena | re mounts | 22:09 |
| sheena | it should be designed (not necessarily the prototype, but in general) to withstand like, some impacts? | 22:10 |
| nmz787 | http://www.aliexpress.com/item/gopro-Dog-Harness-go-pro-accessories-Chest-Strap-Mount-for-Gopro-Camera-Hero-4-3/32268220597.html?s=p | 22:11 |
| nmz787 | http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-GoPro-Accessories-Dog-Pet-Mounting-Selfie-Harness-Chest-Strap-Belt-Mount-For-GoPro-Hero/32253403969.html | 22:11 |
| sheena | does taht price include the knockoff harness? lol | 22:12 |
| sheena | those arent head mounted hto? | 22:12 |
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| nmz787 | that price seems like it is for the harness | 22:13 |
| nmz787 | idk look for better listings | 22:13 |
| nmz787 | ya 3D printed plastic is often ABS, which is pretty strong off the printer | 22:13 |
| nmz787 | maybe a section of PVC pipe would do, but it would be heavier than a 3d printed part | 22:14 |
| nmz787 | i think | 22:14 |
| sheena | pvc pipe is something dog people tend to have around | 22:14 |
| sheena | if it were relevant for modularness | 22:14 |
| sheena | im thinking re head mount that i'd make something vs buy soething | 22:14 |
| nmz787 | i think it could be 1 or two 3d printed parts | 22:15 |
| nmz787 | yeah, could buy some cheap ones to get ideas | 22:15 |
| nmz787 | or look at their pics | 22:15 |
| sheena | the ones for k9s cameras have two straps around the head, some around the ears, and the thing mounts centre on top of the head | 22:15 |
| nmz787 | you could start prototyping that now, since you have cheese up there | 22:15 |
| sheena | i have no cheese at the moment :( | 22:16 |
| sheena | getting mroe next week i hope. friend smugglign it up for me | 22:16 |
| nmz787 | what kind of dogs are these going to be? | 22:16 |
| nmz787 | what if they are lactose intolerant or something ? | 22:16 |
| nmz787 | negative feedback | 22:16 |
| sheena | my test dogs are my own.. 55lb bc mix and 65lb malinois, plus my landlord's got 9 belgians and a mini american eskimo | 22:16 |
| sheena | lol | 22:17 |
| sheena | they like canned cheese | 22:17 |
| nmz787 | he heh | 22:17 |
| sheena | and Kong makes canned not-cheese stuff. its expensive, but would probably fit the device for dogs who coudlnt have it | 22:17 |
| nmz787 | whipped cream | 22:18 |
| nmz787 | but i guess that's dairy | 22:18 |
| nmz787 | does whipped meat exist? | 22:18 |
| sheena | kong makes a liver one | 22:21 |
| sheena | http://www.amazon.ca/Kong-72186-StuffN-Treat-8-Ounce/dp/B00008DFK5 | 22:21 |
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| fenn | you could probably refill the cheese cans with whatever you want, if you figured out how to inject the propellant | 22:29 |
| fenn | "Normal aerosol cans are charged with all of their contents through the single opening at the top, but spray cheese cans are separately charged with the product through the top and propellant through the bottom." | 22:29 |
| sheena | cause mixing is bad | 22:31 |
| fenn | i don't have a can here to look closely at the plug in the bottom. does it have a hole like a soccer ball or basket ball to insert an inflation needle? | 22:31 |
| fenn | "its like crack for my dog" | 22:34 |
| sheena | i feel like no | 22:34 |
| sheena | i feel like it not rubber.. like metal bottom | 22:34 |
| sheena | but i dont have one either | 22:35 |
| fenn | "Look around and you will be able to find the regular flavors in bulk for a much better price." (kong easy treat) | 22:35 |
| fenn | i definitely remember seeing a black rubber stopper in the bottom of the can, i just dont remember if it has a hole or not | 22:35 |
| fenn | searching for "spray cheese bung" isn't helpful :\ | 22:37 |
| fenn | http://i.imgur.com/3ebJ6.jpg apparently they use the same system in shaving cream | 22:38 |
| nmz787 | .tell sandeep re: pH meters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlC_4KwVWV4 | 22:40 |
| yoleaux | nmz787: I'll pass your message to sandeep. | 22:40 |
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| kragen | well, if the propellant mixed with the cheese | 22:55 |
| kragen | it would foam the cheese as the cheese was extruded | 22:55 |
| kragen | the black rubber stoppers in the bottom of spray cheese cans do not have holes in them. And I have not successfully removed one. | 22:56 |
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| nmz787 | they make refillable whipped cream containers | 23:01 |
| nmz787 | which take NO2 cartridges | 23:01 |
| sheena | yeah | 23:02 |
| sheena | but it starts as liquid? | 23:02 |
| nmz787 | the cream? | 23:02 |
| sheena | i think so? | 23:02 |
| nmz787 | yea | 23:03 |
| kragen | yeah, you dissolve the nitrous oxide in it, and when you release the pressure, it boils | 23:06 |
| kragen | same as normal shaving cream or spray paint | 23:06 |
| sheena | hm | 23:07 |
| sheena | i thought the whipcream things took CO2, not NO2? | 23:07 |
| fenn | NO2 tastes better | 23:08 |
| fenn | also lower pressure | 23:09 |
| kragen | all the canned whipped cream I've seen was made with NO₂ | 23:22 |
| kragen | I don't know why they don't use CO₂ | 23:23 |
| kragen | I suspect its critical temperature is too low | 23:23 |
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| --- Log closed Tue Jan 20 00:00:01 2015 | ||
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