| --- Log opened Wed Jan 28 00:00:37 2015 | ||
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| archels | As of now, all individual members of AISB have a personal subscription to the Taylor & Francis journal Connection Science as part of their membership. | 01:49 |
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| archels | hurrah | 01:49 |
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| kanzure | does taylorfrancis have anything actually interesting | 06:18 |
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| kanzure | http://edge.org/responses/what-scientific-idea-is-ready-for-retirement | 06:23 |
| kanzure | .title http://edge.org/response-detail/25540 | 06:23 |
| yoleaux | Edge.org | 06:23 |
| kanzure | blah | 06:23 |
| kanzure | should say "information overload is ready for retirement bitches" | 06:23 |
| maaku_ | wtf. retire the search for a theory of everything? | 06:25 |
| maaku_ | quantum physics doesn't work. it is broken at large and at massive scale | 06:25 |
| kanzure | "I think the altruism hierarchy should be retired. I do believe that people often help others absent the goal of any personal gain. Dan Batson, Philip Kitcher, and others have done the philosophical and empirical work of distinguishing other-oriented and self-oriented motives for prosociality. But I also believe that the reservation of terms such as "pure" or "real" for actions bereft of any personal gain is less than useful." | 06:25 |
| maaku_ | general relatively is broken at small scale | 06:26 |
| maaku_ | i don't think it's weird to say that there is a rule which the universe follows ... | 06:26 |
| kanzure | hm this page is longer than i expected | 06:26 |
| kanzure | "The apparent need to retire classical spacetime as a fundamental concept is profound, and confronts the reality that a clear successor is not yet in sight. Different approaches to the underlying quantum framework exist; some show promise but none yet clearly resolve our decades-old conundrums in black holes and cosmology. The emergence of such a successor is likely to be a key element in the next major revolution in physics." | 06:28 |
| kanzure | man what the fuck has gone wrong with john brockman | 06:28 |
| kanzure | can't he just filter out all the bullshit (yes everyone has known for 100 years about some of these) | 06:28 |
| kanzure | "This leads all too easily to the idea that while someone is awake they must always be conscious of something or other. And that leads along the slippery path to the idea that if we knew what to look for we could peer inside someone's brain and find out which processes were the conscious ones and which the unconscious ones. But this is all nonsense. All we will ever find is the neural correlates of thoughts, perceptions, memories and the ... | 06:29 |
| kanzure | ... verbal and attentional processes that lead us to think we are conscious." | 06:29 |
| maaku_ | w. t. f. | 06:30 |
| kanzure | haha | 06:30 |
| kanzure | "Recent studies in the booming research field of Mind Wandering show that we spend roughly two thirds of our conscious life-time zoning out—daydreaming, lost in fantasies, autobiographical planning, inner narratives or depressive rumination. Depending on the study, 30-50% of our waking life is occupied by spontaneously occurring stimulus and task-unrelated thought. Mind Wandering probably has positive aspects too, because it is ... | 06:30 |
| kanzure | ... associated with creativity, careful future planning, or the encoding of long-term memories. But its overall performance costs (for example, in terms of reading comprehension, memory, sustained attention tasks, or working memory) are marked and have been well documented. So have its negative effects on general, subjective well-being. A wandering mind clearly is an unhappy mind, but it may only be part of a more comprehensive process ... | 06:31 |
| kanzure | ... beyond the conscious self’s control or understanding. The sudden loss of inner autonomy—which all of us experience many hundred times every day—seems to be based on a cyclically recurring process in the brain. The ebb and flow of autonomy and meta-awareness might well be a kind of attentional see-sawing between our inner and outer worlds, caused by a constant competition between the brain networks underlying spontaneous ... | 06:31 |
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| kanzure | ... subpersonal thinking and goal-oriented cognition." | 06:31 |
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| kanzure | some of these are inconsistent | 06:35 |
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| kanzure | maaku_: you died? | 06:47 |
| kanzure | http://openlab-blueprint.org/ | 06:52 |
| kanzure | oh look they are kind enough to not conflate community labs with diy | 06:52 |
| kanzure | their equipment list is not comprehensive http://openlab-blueprint.org/equipment/ | 06:52 |
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| kanzure | "spectro" doesn't even appear on this page | 06:53 |
| kanzure | are they just smelling their samples or what | 06:53 |
| kanzure | blah i hate people | 06:53 |
| ParahSailin | is using vim anachronistic? | 07:23 |
| kanzure | nah, still relevant | 07:24 |
| ParahSailin | some consultant was complaining about not having vpn set up so that he can use sublime text or some shit | 07:25 |
| kanzure | lee smolin saying things http://edge.org/response-detail/25371 | 07:26 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: haha, tell him to edit locally? | 07:26 |
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| ParahSailin | yeah, like with vim, and he said "i worked with mainframes 20 years ago, im done with that now" | 07:27 |
| kanzure | "what the fuck did you do with yourself since then?" | 07:27 |
| kanzure | "one genome per person" http://edge.org/response-detail/25363 "At the other end of the time continuum, in 6 people who died, unrelated to cancer, there was extensive mosaicism across all organs assessed, including liver, small intestine and pancreas." | 07:27 |
| ParahSailin | dunno, i looked at sublime text, and let me tell you, hjkl, d c, i and escape is not all there is to vim | 07:28 |
| ParahSailin | if i were going to switch id probably learn emacs | 07:28 |
| kanzure | .to cluckj :/ john brockman published some weird anti-falsifiability stuff http://edge.org/response-detail/25322 | 07:28 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: I'll pass your message to cluckj. | 07:28 |
| kanzure | http://edge.org/response-detail/25284 "Then why did the human brain double in size? Why is it much bigger than you might think it needs to be, to underpin our level of intelligence? There's no question that big brains are costly to build and maintain. So, if we are to retire the "obvious theory", what can we put in its place? The answer I'd suggest lies in the advantage of having a large amount of cognitive reserve. Big brains have spare ... | 07:29 |
| kanzure | ... capacity that can be called on if and when working-parts get damaged or wear out. From adulthood onwards humans—like other mammals—begin to lose a significant amount of brain tissue to accidents, haemorrhages and degeneration. But because humans can draw on this extra reserve, the loss doesn't have to show. This means humans can retain their mental powers into relative old age, long after their smaller brained ancestors would ... | 07:29 |
| kanzure | ... have become incapacitated. (And as a matter of fact the unfortunate individual born with an unusually small brain is much more likely to succumb to senile dementia in his forties)." | 07:29 |
| kanzure | " So, what evolutionary advantage does longevity bring, even the post-reproductive longevity typical of humans? The answer surely is that humans can benefit—as no other species could do—from the presence of mentally-sound grandparents and great-grandparents, whose role in caretaking and teaching has been key to the success of human culture." | 07:30 |
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| ParahSailin | did python3 remove tuple packing in for .. in stuff? | 08:02 |
| kanzure | you mean "for (x, y) in enumerate(range(0,10))"? | 08:02 |
| kanzure | .py3 [(x, y) for (x, y) in enumerate(range(0, 10))] | 08:03 |
| kanzure | .py [(x, y) for (x, y) in enumerate(range(0, 10))] | 08:03 |
| yoleaux | [(0, 0), (1, 1), (2, 2), (3, 3), (4, 4), (5, 5), (6, 6), (7, 7), (8, 8), (9, 9)] | 08:03 |
| kanzure | works fine | 08:03 |
| ParahSailin | i remember that python3 fucked up destructuring in some case | 08:04 |
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| kanzure | https://jagt.github.io/clumsy/ "clumsy makes your network condition on Windows significantly worse, but in a managed and interactive manner." | 09:14 |
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| kanzure | .tw https://twitter.com/ACSPublications/status/560465213573844992 | 09:55 |
| yoleaux | We are currently experiencing issues with Google search results; please be aware that we are working to resolve this ASAP. (@ACSPublications) | 09:55 |
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| maaku_ | kanzure: ? | 10:30 |
| maaku_ | just afk | 10:30 |
| kanzure | ah i thought you vanished in a puff of dignified horror of the evils of edge.org | 10:34 |
| maaku_ | oh hah. nah i'm at a conference. only on IRC when the talk is uninteresting :P | 10:35 |
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| andytoshi | exciting news everyone: my life insurance policy was approved. i have to mail in some forms to alcor now ... onto the "real" part of cryonics signup :0 | 11:28 |
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| eudoxia | hey congratulations on not cryocrastinating | 11:31 |
| kanzure | eudoxia: i may have found a way to make "skdb" work | 11:36 |
| eudoxia | kanzure: solving the incentives problem or a design thing? | 11:36 |
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| kanzure | ... yes... | 11:47 |
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| eudoxia | ok well i'm listening | 12:01 |
| andytoshi | kanzure: maaku suggests that my personal identity is really tied up in my body and i shouldn't do head-only cryopreservation. do you have any thoughts on that? | 12:23 |
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| kanzure | uhrm, i would have to see lots of evidence about that | 12:29 |
| justanotheruser | andytoshi: your identity is only a screenname to me, so as long as you cryopreserve your head containing the password, you should be good. | 12:30 |
| andytoshi | justanotheruser: i keep that in my keepass :) | 12:30 |
| ParahSailin | if you freeze the brain and the heart, chances are you've got the soul | 12:31 |
| andytoshi | kanzure: well, for example a lot of hormonal stuff occurs in response to gut neurons right? | 12:31 |
| andytoshi | i don't recall where i read this. it's something maaku brought up | 12:31 |
| eudoxia | andytoshi: people with transected spines don't have a sudden personality change. and hormonal stuff is not too unique to a person, like brain structure. | 12:33 |
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| andytoshi | hmmm | 12:39 |
| andytoshi | it is hard to mentally separate myself from my body. like i'm typing right now and i'm not consciously moving fingers, i'm just thinking into the screen.. | 12:41 |
| andytoshi | i guess, i could relearn all that stuff with a new body | 12:41 |
| andytoshi | but do the tactile sensations etc define my personality? | 12:41 |
| andytoshi | as an extreme example, there are studies to show that if you give someone botox or otherwise reshape their face, this -does- cause personality changes | 12:41 |
| archels | severing the spine means you'll have to relearn much of your motor control and sensory maps | 12:43 |
| archels | which might be a bit annoying and/or debilitating | 12:43 |
| archels | as for the gut neurons, they should be pretty interchangable | 12:44 |
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| archels | perhaps the bone marrow stem cells can be of use in the future, but then again by the time they thaw you, we can probably induce pluripotent stem cells from any tissue | 12:44 |
| archels | the idea is that they'll grow new bodies for the neuros based on their own DNA, no? | 12:46 |
| archels | right, Alcor states that explicitly at least | 12:52 |
| archels | "A more likely problem could be joining the axons of the brain stem to the right muscles of the body. These connections might not be completely genetically determined. Various motor skills, such as walking or playing the piano, might have to be relearned." | 12:53 |
| archels | of course Alcor is going to try and sound positive about everything | 12:53 |
| kanzure | cubespawn has 90k sq ft of industrial shop space and equipment... geeze. | 12:54 |
| archels | "Aubrey de Grey has theorized that neuropatients will be revived after procedures have been perfected on whole body patients, and therefore have better chances for revival." | 12:54 |
| andytoshi | ok, well, i can do both those things and idk how quickly i'd relearn them. might be interesting to swap some nerves eg to swap my brain's view of my index and ring fingers to see what happens | 12:54 |
| andytoshi | that's a good point re revival, archels | 12:54 |
| kanzure | hormone thing is bullshit, you can derive some of that information from your genome and methylation | 12:54 |
| kanzure | as for muscles... that doesnt matter either. so you might have to learn new motor functions, big deal... | 12:55 |
| kanzure | motor function is overrated | 12:55 |
| kanzure | personality being impacted by botox is probably just because people think the face expresses personality | 12:57 |
| kanzure | there might be some personal feedback there, or feedback through others and how they treat you, but in either case i don't care | 12:58 |
| andytoshi | kanzure: the botox study asked people how they were feeling | 12:59 |
| andytoshi | if they couldn't frown anymore they became happier | 12:59 |
| kanzure | yes people can feel differently.. but so what? | 12:59 |
| andytoshi | i think how happy you are on average is a big determiner of personality | 13:00 |
| andytoshi | i'm a happy person, and the sad people around me do incomprehensible things all the time | 13:00 |
| kanzure | so the concern here is something about your personality being different between two points in time? | 13:01 |
| andytoshi | i guess. | 13:02 |
| andytoshi | i think, i have always preferred my current personality (which ofc has changed dramatically many times over the years) to any other. the idea of changing is bad | 13:02 |
| andytoshi | i guess, this is a silly argument about cryonics tho because there are many things (including factors i cannot forsee or influence) in life that change my personality | 13:03 |
| kanzure | also most assays of personality are bullshit | 13:03 |
| kanzure | i would be much more interested in some sort of brain backup system where you can do rollbacks | 13:04 |
| archels | getting your own body back shouldn't really be much of a problem at that point | 13:05 |
| archels | accelerated growth of a zygote based on your own somatic cells | 13:06 |
| kanzure | perhaps | 13:06 |
| archels | oh, and keep it from developing its own brain and personality, I guess | 13:07 |
| kanzure | that seems like an annoying thing to try to do | 13:07 |
| kanzure | i think emulation is more likely | 13:07 |
| kanzure | i mean, more easy | 13:07 |
| archels | probably, yeah | 13:09 |
| archels | I don't know, what's always struck me a bit about cryonics, is that even in spite of nanotech and WBE and all that good jazz, there's a nonzero probability that for some people... it's just going to work out of the box | 13:10 |
| kanzure | er, what strikes you in particular about that? | 13:11 |
| archels | as in, you bring them up to temperature, follow the right procedure, restart their heart, and have them just essentially come back from the dead | 13:11 |
| archels | just as kindof a cute aspect of cryonics--whole-body cryonics, at that | 13:11 |
| kanzure | oh i don't think so. we haven't demonstrated that for anything bigger than a cat brain. | 13:11 |
| kanzure | i mean maybe if we get some experimental evidence... | 13:12 |
| archels | well, a cat would already be pretty good | 13:12 |
| archels | wasn't the leitl working on snails last time we talked? | 13:12 |
| kanzure | yes | 13:12 |
| kanzure | i think another option would be to try it with human embryos | 13:15 |
| kanzure | at longer and longer stages of development | 13:15 |
| kanzure | and then over time select for humans able to withstand cryonics | 13:15 |
| andytoshi | what's a leitl? | 13:16 |
| kanzure | .g "eugen leitl" "two bits" "bryan bishop" | 13:16 |
| yoleaux | http://osdir.com/ml/diybio/2012-11/msg00333.html | 13:16 |
| kanzure | .g "eugen leitl" "bryan bishop" site:extropy.org 2008 | 13:17 |
| yoleaux | http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/2008-January/039764.html | 13:17 |
| kanzure | there we go. that is better. | 13:17 |
| kanzure | whoops no | 13:18 |
| kanzure | hmm. if i was less mobile at the moment then i would be able to fetch you the right link. | 13:18 |
| kanzure | .g site:extropy.org inurl:2008 "bryan bishop" "eugen leitl" "don't compile" | 13:19 |
| yoleaux | No results found. | 13:19 |
| kanzure | .g site:extropy.org inurl:2008 "bryan bishop" "eugen leitl" "two bits" | 13:20 |
| yoleaux | No results found. | 13:20 |
| kanzure | impossible | 13:20 |
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| nmz787_i | my mom lost significant nerve function in her lower body, along with intense pain as a result of the damaged neurons, and this resulted in significant personality changes and unhappiness | 13:26 |
| kragen | .g site:extropy.org inurl:2008 sitaker | 13:38 |
| yoleaux | No results found. | 13:38 |
| kragen | .g site:extropy.org inurl:2006 sitaker | 13:38 |
| yoleaux | No results found. | 13:38 |
| kragen | nmz787_i: that sounds shitty | 13:38 |
| kragen | .g site:extropy.org sitaker | 13:39 |
| yoleaux | http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/2005-July/018108.html | 13:39 |
| kragen | heh, it's about crowdfunding | 13:40 |
| nmz787_i | kragen: that is a mild term to describe it, at least | 13:41 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8962896 | 15:12 |
| delinquentme | make happen | 15:12 |
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| nmz787_i | delinquentme: pretty neat | 15:14 |
| delinquentme | nmz787_i, and useful ! | 15:17 |
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| kanzure | ugh | 15:19 |
| kanzure | no that is not neat | 15:19 |
| kanzure | that is a flippant violation of sensemaking | 15:19 |
| kanzure | and you should feel physically ill | 15:19 |
| justanotheruser | I for one would love to have my money secured by a group attempting to solve a problem that will make my money worthless. | 15:22 |
| nmz787_i | .dic flippant | 15:23 |
| nmz787_i | .dict flippant | 15:23 |
| nmz787_i | .g definition flippant | 15:23 |
| yoleaux | http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/flippant | 15:23 |
| nmz787_i | .g definition sensemaking | 15:24 |
| yoleaux | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensemaking | 15:24 |
| nmz787_i | .wik sensemeaning | 15:24 |
| yoleaux | nmz787_i: Sorry, I couldn't find article. | 15:24 |
| nmz787_i | .wik sensemaking | 15:24 |
| yoleaux | "Sensemaking is the process by which people give meaning to experience. While this process has been studied by other disciplines under other names for centuries, the term "sensemaking" has primarily marked three distinct but related research areas since the 1970s: Sensemaking was introduced to Human–computer interaction by PARC researchers …" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensemaking | 15:24 |
| kanzure | everyone knows at this point that proof-of-work is broken when used like that | 15:24 |
| kanzure | and it is disgusting that they are lying ot you | 15:25 |
| kanzure | *to you | 15:25 |
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| kanzure | and even more gross that you don't realize it | 15:25 |
| nmz787_i | ? | 15:25 |
| nmz787_i | bitcoin sucks anyway | 15:25 |
| nmz787_i | :) | 15:25 |
| kanzure | that doesn't mean you get to fuck up this channel with shitty ideas | 15:25 |
| nmz787_i | I don't parse what you mean by "that is a [lacking proper respect or seriousness] violation of [giving meaning to experience]" | 15:25 |
| kanzure | how do you not parse that | 15:26 |
| kanzure | it clearly translates to "this is a complete rejection of every experience that anyone has about bitcoin" | 15:26 |
| nmz787_i | isn't it just saying the work is pointless and thus we shouldn't waste watts on it? | 15:26 |
| kanzure | "and is also clearly not very thorough and doesn't even address the actual issues, and instead just proposes some bad idea instead" | 15:27 |
| nmz787_i | rather use those watts for a real problem? | 15:27 |
| kanzure | yes, it's saying that and a whole host of other things | 15:27 |
| kanzure | but yeah, that's a good place to start | 15:27 |
| kanzure | proof-of-work is not useless | 15:27 |
| nmz787_i | .etymology flippant | 15:28 |
| nmz787_i | .etym flippant | 15:28 |
| kanzure | see bottom of page 11 https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/alts.pdf | 15:28 |
| kanzure | and page 12 | 15:28 |
| nmz787_i | 'pparently an extended form of flip (v.). ' | 15:28 |
| nmz787_i | http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=flip&allowed_in_frame=0 | 15:28 |
| nmz787_i | '"to fillip, to toss with the thumb," imitative, or perhaps a thinned form of flap, or else a contraction of fillip (q.v.), which also is held to be imitative. Meaning "toss as though with the thumb" is from 1610s. Meaning "to flip a coin" (to decide something) is by 1879. Sense of "get excited" is first recorded 1950; flip (one's) lid "lose one's head, go wild" is from 1949, American English; variant flip (one's) wig attested by | 15:29 |
| nmz787_i | 1952, but the image turns up earlier in popular record reviews' | 15:29 |
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| kanzure | this phyical cost is exactly how bitcoin works in the first place | 15:29 |
| kanzure | and relacing it with something costless is bogus | 15:29 |
| nmz787_i | cost meaning watts? | 15:30 |
| kanzure | cost meaning some physical scarcity of some sort | 15:30 |
| nmz787_i | drives/RAM to store hashes? | 15:30 |
| kanzure | and as maaku pointed it out, bitcoin is basically using the universal scarcity of entropy | 15:30 |
| nmz787_i | aren't those just getting cheaper and cheaper? | 15:30 |
| nmz787_i | not scarcer | 15:30 |
| kanzure | i don't know what you're asking | 15:30 |
| kanzure | do you know how bitcoin works? | 15:30 |
| nmz787_i | mechanical-turk? | 15:31 |
| nmz787_i | mostly I just know it has to do with some crypto | 15:31 |
| kanzure | if you don't know how bitcoin works, why would you even for a moment think that "foldingcoin" is a good idea? | 15:31 |
| nmz787_i | because it sounds like it uses the hashing to do useful work in addition to just proving security | 15:31 |
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| nmz787_i | because that's how the website designers designed the website to be seen as | 15:32 |
| kanzure | surely you're not that gullible | 15:32 |
| nmz787_i | at face-value it does seem that bitcoin is just a waste of energy, doing work for no reason other than to limit the inflow of new coins | 15:32 |
| kanzure | at face-value bitcoin should make absolutely no sense | 15:33 |
| kanzure | so it is curious that you think it is a waste | 15:33 |
| nmz787_i | right, and protein-folding being useful makes much much more sense | 15:33 |
| kanzure | just because you haven't investigated how it works or why it works doesn't mean that it's wasteful | 15:33 |
| kanzure | and does not mean that protien folding achieves anything nearly similar | 15:34 |
| nmz787_i | idk man, if you know so much, write a bitcoin for dummies webpage, otherwise you shouldn't care so much that people don't know about it | 15:34 |
| kanzure | what? | 15:35 |
| kanzure | that's unrelated | 15:35 |
| kanzure | right now i'm focusing on just you | 15:35 |
| justanotheruser | nmz787_i: Not reading all this scrollback, but I'll say that bitcoin is secured by hashing which is designed to be irreversible and is mostly unoptimizable. Protein folding isn't a cryptographic hash and isn't designed by cryptographers and it shouldn't be used to secure things that require a hash. | 15:36 |
| nmz787_i | ok, from my standpoint specifically, bitcoin hashing seems like it is some useless function that just wastes time, with the constraint on how much time depending on how many other coins exist at that moment. so switching that seemingly useless function into something that it beneficial seems like less of a waste of watts. | 15:37 |
| kanzure | bitcoin mining specifically exists to secure the bitcoin blockchain in the presence of malicious adversaries, without the presence of a central authority | 15:38 |
| kanzure | if you think that a distributed/decentralized consensus like this without a central authority is of zero value, then that's fair but you should say that, instead of that bitcoin's mining is a waste | 15:38 |
| nmz787_i | justanotheruser: yeah but it is pretty much unknown and thus un-reverse-engineerable right now... when we get to the point where that is no longer true, then just switch back to the old hasher | 15:38 |
| justanotheruser | nmz787_i: it isn't un-reverse-engineerable, it just hasn't been reverse engineered. That is security through obscurity. | 15:39 |
| nmz787_i | justanotheruser: so what, we need to figure out protein folding | 15:39 |
| nmz787_i | justanotheruser: which is why i said 'right now' | 15:39 |
| kanzure | that seems to be unrelated | 15:40 |
| kanzure | so look, just because some function x needs to be solved in society does not mean that you should arbitrarily break security protocols | 15:40 |
| nmz787_i | well that webpage delinquentme posted relates the two | 15:40 |
| kanzure | because they are fucking morons | 15:40 |
| justanotheruser | nmz787_i: donate bitcoin to a solution. You can pretty much consider using this currency to be a donation to solving protein folding (but a very ineffecient one where most of the money goes to scammers/pumpers and a little bit going towards solving the problem) | 15:40 |
| nmz787_i | but why not use an actual function (protein folding) which is as-hard-as-crypto-is-today? | 15:41 |
| kanzure | fool i gave you a list of reasons | 15:42 |
| kanzure | read the link | 15:42 |
| nmz787_i | yeah I don't have time for that | 15:42 |
| nmz787_i | I scrolled to pg 11 and 12 | 15:42 |
| nmz787_i | didn't see much | 15:42 |
| kanzure | there was a very specific list of reasons | 15:42 |
| kanzure | one very obvious reason (which was in fucking bold typeface, by the way) is that the verification needs to be relatively free or costless or cheap | 15:42 |
| nmz787_i | 'Ease of verification' -- check the PDB database | 15:42 |
| kanzure | no | 15:42 |
| kanzure | pdb is centralized | 15:43 |
| kanzure | if you want a central authority maintaining a ledger then you should say that, instead of dancing around this issue | 15:43 |
| nmz787_i | ? | 15:43 |
| nmz787_i | I never said anything like that | 15:43 |
| kanzure | you just said use pdb | 15:44 |
| kanzure | like two seconds ago | 15:44 |
| nmz787_i | for verifying your protein folding algo was right | 15:44 |
| kanzure | sigh | 15:44 |
| kanzure | yes.... so that's using a central authority... | 15:44 |
| nmz787_i | the whole blockchain would have to verify, that's distributed | 15:44 |
| kanzure | and if you are using a central authority like that then you might as well pack up and go home | 15:44 |
| kanzure | centralized implementations are extremely efficient | 15:45 |
| nmz787_i | efficiency is gut | 15:45 |
| nmz787_i | gūt | 15:46 |
| kanzure | if you are only interested in efficiency, and not decentralized consensus without the presence of a central authority, then you should not really be applying efficiency criticism to bitcoin's design or implementation because their goal is different | 15:46 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: you should be happy, they're using counterparty :D | 15:47 |
| justanotheruser | hmm o_O | 15:47 |
| justanotheruser | I didn't realize the implications when I said that, but... the mining doesn't accomplish any useful task | 15:48 |
| kanzure | oh this isn't the one that talks about a separate blockchain of protein folding consensus hrm | 15:48 |
| kanzure | hey that makes them slightly less awful | 15:49 |
| kanzure | who brought up mining | 15:49 |
| kanzure | 15:26 < nmz787_i> isn't it just saying the work is pointless and thus we shouldn't waste watts on it? | 15:49 |
| kanzure | i may or may not have lead him to saying that though | 15:49 |
| kanzure | or he genuinely thought that's what they were doing | 15:50 |
| kanzure | and even if he did, all of my same criticism of his lack of reasoning still applies | 15:50 |
| justanotheruser | there is a completely different set of criticisms for this | 15:51 |
| justanotheruser | mining is for consensus | 15:51 |
| kanzure | right | 15:52 |
| kanzure | yeah i agree | 15:52 |
| justanotheruser | and donating bitcoins to folding at home should be equivalent to losing folding coins through inflation and mining | 15:52 |
| kanzure | i definitely did not see the counterparty portion | 15:52 |
| kanzure | but to be fair, there have been some proposals in the past to do protein folding to achieve consensus | 15:52 |
| justanotheruser | so basically this is a speculative asset that loses value (considered donations) by funding protein folding | 15:52 |
| kanzure | yeah i'm not very clear on what the motivation is to want those tokens | 15:53 |
| justanotheruser | so in the end you can donate $100 in bitcoins to protein folding, or you can lose $100 in foldingcoins to donate to protein folding. | 15:53 |
| justanotheruser | which means this is just a speculative asset that has no benefits over bitcoin | 15:54 |
| kanzure | on a related note, i'm also not very convinced that folding@home is a good idea, even if it takes 30 years to achieve stronger results or something, i suspect that protein folding is either the wrong problem or we're going about proteins wrong | 15:54 |
| kanzure | i sent this long-ass email to freitas the other day complaining about the focus on protein folding | 15:54 |
| kanzure | i think that a subset of protein would be an interesting engineering project | 15:54 |
| kanzure | with a reduced set of residues you could possibly restrict yourself to things-that-are-easy-to-predict | 15:54 |
| kanzure | and this might be easier to figure out | 15:55 |
| kanzure | rather than all possible combinations of all 20 residues and 100 residue variants | 15:55 |
| justanotheruser | I have no idea what can be accomplished and no opinion on it. | 15:57 |
| kanzure | eh, it is worth knowing that "protein folding algorithms are presently incapable of correctly predicting all types of folds" | 15:59 |
| kanzure | "and have been this way for a while" | 15:59 |
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| ParahSailin | have there been any papers resulting from protein folding other than the distributed computing papers | 16:15 |
| kanzure | not very sure. i haven't even been able to find a super-good review of latest protein folding "stuff". | 16:18 |
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| kanzure | beep | 20:32 |
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| fenn | kanzure: what do you use for ssh on android? | 20:49 |
| kanzure | connectbot | 20:49 |
| fenn | is there a way to increase the font size without messing up resizing? | 20:50 |
| kanzure | tmux has ctrl-shift-plus | 20:51 |
| kanzure | and ctrl-minus | 20:51 |
| fenn | i just want to use terminal emulator but there is no ssh app | 20:53 |
| kanzure | there is a thing on android to install debian into a chroot | 20:53 |
| fenn | yeah that seems overkill | 20:54 |
| kanzure | it's a supercomputer in your pocket broadcasting the entirety of wikipedia | 20:54 |
| kanzure | of course it's ridiculous | 20:54 |
| fenn | this phone has no sd card slot so no wikipedia for me :( | 20:55 |
| fenn | also no usb host | 20:55 |
| fenn | there is a conspiracy afoot | 20:56 |
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| fenn | volume keys control font size in connectbot | 21:06 |
| fenn | i'd rather have that mapped to ctrl like in terminal emulator though | 21:07 |
| kanzure | ah whoops yeah i forgot about volume keys | 21:08 |
| kanzure | also if you can figure out why terminal coloration is sometimes not present i would be appreciative | 21:08 |
| kanzure | because it for whatever reason also controls "(" and ")" | 21:09 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jan 29 00:00:38 2015 | ||
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