2015-02-02.log

--- Log opened Mon Feb 02 00:00:27 2015
--- Day changed Mon Feb 02 2015
-!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap00:00
-!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has joined ##hplusroadmap00:02
-!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]00:02
FourFire.00:17
bellowI am trying to reconnect my Magnavox MBP 5120 blu-ray player to my Linksys routers wifi (which I have done before without trouble) and I am getting DHCP cannot be acquired. I have change the IP Address to manual on the blu-ray player without changing the IP address itself and no error. I have checked the routers settings and DHCP is enabled. Is the00:29
bellowre a way to fix this? I had it connected just fine so I added the ip/mac address to the DHCP Reservation think that would help it did not.00:29
-!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]00:32
-!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-junudbtoyrnkbcnf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]00:44
-!- phm4242 [~o@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has joined ##hplusroadmap00:54
-!- cntrational [~sid@49.205.77.125] has joined ##hplusroadmap00:55
-!- bellow [43d519a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.67.213.25.166] has left ##hplusroadmap []01:15
-!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-144-131-35-125.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]01:22
-!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-144-131-35-125.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap01:36
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]01:40
FourFiremaaku, are you online now?01:44
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap01:56
-!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap01:57
-!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-144-131-35-125.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]02:05
-!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-144-131-35-125.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap02:06
-!- cntrational [~sid@49.205.77.125] has quit [Quit: ciao]02:33
ebowdenpaperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S009286741500059803:13
paperbothttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Intra-Spike%20Crosslinking%20Overcomes%20Antibody%20Evasion%20by%20HIV-1%0A%20.pdf03:13
-!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-22-69.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap03:23
-!- xrr [~xrr@gprs-inet-65-51.elisa.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]03:38
-!- xrr [~xrr@gprs-inet-65-51.elisa.ee] has joined ##hplusroadmap03:42
ebowdenhttp://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/poll-shows-41-american-adults-believe-antibiotics-treat-viruses03:48
-!- DumpsterD1ver [~loki@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving]03:59
-!- DumpsterD1ver [~loki@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap04:00
eudoxiahooray, paperbot is alive04:21
yoleaux06:44Z <kanzure> eudoxia: paperbot works again thank you04:21
ebowdenpaperbot: http://jvi.asm.org/content/early/2014/12/26/JVI.03656-1404:21
paperbothttp://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1128%2FJVI.03656-1404:21
chris_99ooh paperbot you're alive04:21
archels\o/04:21
ebowdenDamn. 404 not found.04:22
ebowdenpaperbot: http://www.fasebj.org/content/early/2015/01/21/fj.14-25953104:22
paperbothttp://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1096%2Ffj.14-25953104:22
ebowdenDamn.04:23
archelsebowden: want?04:28
archelshttp://turingbirds.com/temp/fj.14-259531.full.pdf04:28
-!- xrr [~xrr@gprs-inet-65-51.elisa.ee] has quit [Read error: No route to host]04:38
-!- cntrational [~sid@49.205.77.125] has joined ##hplusroadmap04:49
ebowdenOh, thanks.04:58
-!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@unaffiliated/poppingtonic] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]05:13
-!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]05:19
maakumissed FourFire again05:26
maakuhi gwillen05:27
maakuthis is turning into a blockstream hangout zone05:29
andytoshikanzure: i'm afraid they don't let me reveal how to solve NP-hard problems to non-mathematicians05:31
andytoshi(re your ping earlier about knapsack problem)05:32
maakuandytoshi: i tried to convince him that dynamic programming, or linear programming would be his best bet05:40
maakubetter than the brute-force things he is trying...05:40
maakuandytoshi: also is it correct that the change-making problem is the closest problem studied in the literature?05:48
-!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has joined ##hplusroadmap05:49
maakuhi05:54
maakuFourFire: if biology / genomics is your absolute favorite thing, great05:56
FourFiremaaku, well it's my favorite type of productive thing, yes05:57
FourFireplease, "but anyway, running out the door. i'll give you a longer explanation later05:57
FourFire" do05:57
maakumy point was more that hard sciences and engineering are skills you can pick up, but where else can you study early enlightenment French literature, or do field archeological digs in Egypt?05:57
maakusorry what was that in reference to?05:57
maakuso if there is something esoteric that interests you, university is the time to do it -- and btw, this is generic advice I give every 1st year uni05:58
maakuoh that was on why you should code05:58
maakuLook, the thing is that code is the lingua franca of science and engineering05:59
maakuIt's not that everyone understands it -- most are incapable of reading code -- but if you write and release code, *people will use it*05:59
FourFiremaaku, ok well I don't care about any of those things06:00
maakuTake two papers, one which comes with code attached, and one which is just published ideas06:00
FourFireuhh, I thought mathematics was the language of science and enginnering06:00
maakuand you think that is distinct from code?06:00
FourFireyes06:00
maakucode is transmissable mathmatics06:00
FourFireCode is instructions executable on a computer, or pseudolanguage which is easily compilable to such06:01
heathpodcast on the dumbing down of user interfaces http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/of-mice-and-men/06:01
FourFireok, say your example with two papers06:01
maakuok re-using my exapmle. two papers: one which describes mathmatically a relationship, one which does the same but has a reusable R program06:01
-!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]06:01
maakupeople will use the latter paper06:02
FourFirefair enough06:02
maakubecause ultimately people are lazy06:02
heathdoug engelbart, steve jobs, monome06:02
FourFireso, would I be stupid in not coding and trying to get said code published in places?06:02
maakuso writing code is giving a user interface to your ideas. it is removing the amount of work required for people to reuse your non-coding work06:03
maakuso if you do 2 years of painstaking lab work to discover optimal ratios of X given parameters Y and Z, then write up f(Y,Z) as some reusable snippet of R or Python or something and throw it on github06:04
maakuit's surprising how many people skip this last step06:05
maakubut *because* so many people skip this last step, you can actually go quite far just writing up existing knowledge into reusable code libraries06:05
maakuso my advice to anyone in uni regardless of their focus, write up a reusable library or application that solves a problem there currently isn't simple code for06:07
maakuthrow it on github, people will use it, and you'll suddenly have a reputation for creating projects that work, a scarce ability in the real world (and one employers seek out)06:08
maaku</rant>06:08
-!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-emczxpccgrxziowy] has joined ##hplusroadmap06:09
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]06:10
FourFireOk, that sounds like a solid argument for me to try coding even if I only ever become a mediocre coder06:10
maakuright06:10
FourFireI'm following a C++ tutorial on the weekends with someone I met at my hackerspace, so I will know the syntax of at least one language soon06:10
FourFirethe thing which has prevented me from learning to code, apart from laziness was the idea that I would never be a *good* coder and so it wouldn't be worth the investment of learning it, for me06:11
FourFirebut I have to admit I have no idea about the actual opportunity costs for that decision of inaction06:12
-!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-144-131-35-125.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]06:13
-!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap06:13
andytoshimaaku: idk what's in the literature, i never really studied algorithms ... but agree with the dynamic or linear programming suggestion06:15
andytoshibrute-force is gonna scale exponentially since there are 2^N subsets of a set of N outputs06:16
maakuFourFire: you don't have to be "good" in the computer science sense to write good code. those are only minimally intersecting skills06:18
eudoxiayeah, i don't even know what a category is and i r gud coder06:18
FourFiremaaku, I have to be able to code, which is distinct from knowing the syntax06:19
andytoshiFourFire: i strongly discourage learning C++ as a first language06:20
FourFirewhich is why I make the distinction, from outside the culture, I get the impression that many coders falsely believe they can code, and instead produce piles of cruddy stuff which breaks all the time, causing more competent coders to have to put out fires all the time06:20
FourFireandytoshi, well too late.06:21
andytoshiFourFire: lol :)06:21
eudoxiaas for first languages, this book made me the man i am today: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/book.pdf06:21
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap06:21
FourFireI've already wasted too much time and effort determining which language to learn first, and once i learn C++ syntax i can learn what you were going to recommend me (probably python,java or ruby right?)06:22
FourFirethanks, I'll read it when I can06:22
maakuif you're in biology then R (great for data analysis) or Python (great for everything, not as good at R for data analysis)06:23
andytoshiwell, syntax should be trivial but in c++ it's really not, but that's only the tip of the iceberg..06:23
maakumaybe kanzure has a recommendation06:23
maakubut yeah avoid c++ like the plague06:23
FourFireWhy?06:23
andytoshic++ has a horrendously complicated machine model, tons of implicit behaviour, forces you to deal with pointers (but offers no help and often even inserts implicit code to trip you up)06:24
maakuit's a giant trap designed to frustrate you, for all the reasons andytoshi mentioned06:24
eudoxiakanzure will recommend python06:24
FourFirewhy the fuck does every programmer seem to be selling a language are the only ones who agree are in achother's in groups but contradict different ingroups so solidly?!06:24
andytoshii've never heard anyone recommend c++06:24
maakuexcept maybe game programmers06:24
andytoshii'd say learn python to get a feel for "typical syntax", then rust when you're good at python and want to learn low-level stuff06:25
FourFireandytoshi, I've had people recommend PHP06:25
andytoshisince rust has a sane machine model and its compiler understands pointers06:25
andytoshio.O06:25
maakuc++ gives you raw machine performance *when you know how to use it*06:25
maakuknowing how to use it takes years of effort06:25
andytoshiPHP is not the -worst- thing in the world, if you were gonna do it i wouldn't discourage you because as you say you gotta pick something06:25
andytoshibut PHP also has a lot of craziness and its interpreter is really bad at figuring stuff out06:26
maakuand really for bio stuff the performance differential isn't that great. most of your time will be spent in specialized libraries (which might be written in c++ or fortran), but it doesn't matter if you call them from Python/R or C++06:26
FourFireI'v already picked C++ together with the other guy who's learning with me06:26
eudoxiaFourFire: from someone who spent too much time jumping uselessly from one language to the other, never getting anything done: don't learn C++ as a first language06:26
maakuso you get the benefit of C++'s speed while using a language that is either built for your application in mind (R) or simple to use (Python)06:26
maakuFourFire: alright, fine. just you're in for a world of pain :)06:27
maaku(I maintain C++ projects now in my day job)06:27
FourFireok06:27
FourFireBut for someone who wants to code plugins for programs written in C++06:27
maakuyeah ok that's a different case06:27
FourFirethey could just write a plugin in whatever language and it would work?06:28
eudoxiaprobably not06:28
maakuit'd be more work than dealing with C++06:28
FourFireso for them, it would make sense to learn C++, if not as a first language06:28
maakuFourFire: use cases determine what language to use. this is a clear use case for C++06:28
FourFirebut I should learn R /Python?06:29
maakuif you are in bio world, yes06:29
FourFireI want to eventually hack together a portable (between machines) simulation environmentusing existing code, of course06:29
maakuandytoshi: is there much numerical and data analysis stuff written for rust?06:29
maakuor an interface to the R libraries?06:29
FourFirethis would be best if optimised as much as possible, but I always considered it a possibility to just pay a real programmer to do it for me06:30
FourFirepeople who have programming as the main thing they do, they have to be like 5x better than I ever would be coding on the side06:30
FourFirethat's my assumption06:30
andytoshimaaku: don't think so yet06:31
-!- cntrational [~sid@49.205.77.125] has quit [Quit: o/]06:31
andytoshirust-ci.org is an unofficial list of what's out there..06:31
andytoshiFourFire: well, there are orders of magnitude difference in programming skill (much much more than 5x) but people who are really good are also really expensive and usually not on the market..06:34
andytoshibut i think you wouldn't need a ton of skill to build some academic code06:35
andytoshioptimization, sure, but that's something to deal with after it's working06:35
andytoshii also think anything that would need optimization is already in R..06:35
-!- weles [~mariusz@wsip-174-78-132-9.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap06:41
maakuright that's why i reccomend R and Python to bio or data analysis people who aren't first and foremost coders.06:55
maakumost things that need optimization are already optimized, in the std library or something downloadable06:55
maakuand you're not going to shoot yourself in the foot with some memory error06:58
kanzuresome might even say there's a 10x difference </marketing>07:11
-!- rigel [~yourmom@73.11.41.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]07:12
-!- rigel [~yourmom@73.11.41.130] has joined ##hplusroadmap07:19
-!- Burnin8 is now known as Burninate07:22
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]07:26
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap07:30
kanzurehttp://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/october/satellite-data-shows-us-methane-hot-spot-bigger-than-expected/#.VM-ZwOZpgrQ07:38
-!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]08:00
-!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap08:01
-!- Viper168_ is now known as Viper16808:02
-!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-22-69.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]08:08
-!- FourFire [~FourFire@185.7.192.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]08:10
-!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.137.71] has joined ##hplusroadmap08:56
-!- FourFire [~FourFire@host-37-191-195-228.lynet.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap08:57
FourFiredoes anyone think I should take the plunge into nootropics, namely Modafinil, or would I do better investing my limited funds into other areas?09:11
kanzuredoes norway pay for prescription drugs?09:12
FourFireI'm not sure, have avoided all medication, I think so?09:12
archelstake the plunge is possibly a bit of an overdramatisation09:14
archelsjust try it and see how you like it personally09:14
kanzurejust get the state to pay for adderall09:15
justanotheruserkanzure: thoughts on Desoxyn?09:15
kanzure404 thoughts not found09:17
FourFirekanzure, I am uncertain of the detriments of adderall, but I'm willing to try Modafinil09:18
-!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap09:21
nmz787_ijustanotheruser: I believe it would be my optimal amphet... but my Doc wouldn't give it to me because of meth09:26
justanotherusernmz787_i: Never tried it, but I heard it has some pretty bad side effects09:26
-!- FourFire [~FourFire@host-37-191-195-228.lynet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]09:54
nmz787_ijustanotheruser: AFAIK it has the least side-effects, and in my case my interest was because it has the lowest plasma half-life (amphets take a very very long time to breakdown in my system, and negatively affect my sleep)09:57
justanotherusernmz787_i: really? https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/meth/meth_effects.shtml09:58
nmz787_iI won't open that on my work laptop, but I guess it just depends on what you designate a side-effect10:03
nmz787_ifrom what I recall, psychosis and all the bugs crawling under your skin happens just the same with dex as it does with methyldex10:04
chris_99you get the bug thing from alcohol withdrawal apparently10:04
nmz787_iand staying awake for too many hours sober10:05
chris_99heh10:05
justanotherusernmz787_i: and to be fair, meth does have a bad rep just because it's more commonly sold on the street and probably comes with other funky stuff10:06
chris_99not sure if this is of use to you nmz787 i've found recently server PSUs such as https://sites.google.com/site/tjinguytech/my-projects/HP47A can give 47A10:07
chris_99@ 12VDC10:07
nmz787_ikanzure: how do I tell if the current git master is the original, or if someone pulled the master name into some other branch? (maybe this is a bad question, but I see people mentioning something like it in regards to rebasing) (basically I made some commits which seemed to be on master, then someone else had a merge conflict with a different file, but today my changes don't seem to be in master, though the GIT GUI shows it in10:08
nmz787_i'visualise all branch history' and that file that my changes are lost from doesn't show in any subsequent commit messages... so I can't tell where it got lost, or how, or who was at fault and how they did it)10:08
nmz787_iwow that's pretty nice amperage10:08
nmz787_iI bought a PS from amazon for relatively cheap a year or two ago to provide 5 or 12V at 5A I think10:08
nmz787_iI think it was 12V 5A10:08
nmz787_ias I was trying to make an incubator with a car hair dryer10:09
nmz787_i(seemed like motor interference was causing sensor issues that I couldn't quite figure out how to snub)10:09
-!- nmz787_i [~nmccorkx@134.134.137.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]10:10
-!- delinquentme [~delinquen@162-245-22-166.v250d.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap10:12
-!- cntrational [~sid@49.205.77.125] has joined ##hplusroadmap10:16
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]10:18
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap10:24
-!- skyraider [uid41097@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-axdnsudslqsnzhtu] has joined ##hplusroadmap10:29
kanzurenmz787: git reflog will show you things10:33
-!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-xvlcaxmrrlsyqbpw] has joined ##hplusroadmap10:33
kanzurenmz787: git reflog will show you things10:40
justanotherusergit reflog didn't show me enough after I totally f***ed myself10:44
chris_99nmz787_i, those PSUs are pretty cheap btw, around £1710:45
sheenathanks nmz787_i or nmz787. did you want to discuss it or jut pointing it out?10:46
nmz787_i  kanzure git reflog seems to only show stuff about my local repo... but I believe someone else tossed my changes somehow10:47
nmz787_isheena: you mean the comments? I was just pointing it out. (also of note, that article was open-source, so I don't think you needed paperbot)10:48
sheenayeah, i found the open source thing later. woo for os papers :)10:49
sheenai need to finish reading the study, but the comment sounds like they're referring only to the preliminary study10:49
kanzurei am having trouble understanding yur git problem10:57
kanzure*your git problem10:58
kanzureit is possible that they did not include your changes when they merged into master10:58
kanzurethis was perhaps intentional on their part10:58
kanzurepaperbot: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/337/6102/1628.abstract10:59
kanzure.title10:59
yoleauxNext-Generation Digital Information Storage in DNA10:59
paperbothttp://libgen.info/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1126%2Fscience.122635510:59
kanzurepaperbot: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/337/6102/1628.full.pdf11:00
paperbothttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/2bcaac171dd7bd0153ca8065d03fd03c.pdf11:00
nmz787_ikanzure: no it was totally unintentional... they had some merge conflict with another unrelated file, and they think they somehow tossed my file in the process (but the weird thing is that I'd committed my file to master, so if anything, I'd think they would be merging new changes to master... so if my file was reverted wouldn't I see that in the logs?)11:02
kanzure.to yashgaroth "A highly convenient procedure for oligodeoxynucleotide purification" http://benthamopen.com/contents/pdf/TOOCJ/TOOCJ-8-15.pdf11:06
yoleauxkanzure: I'll pass your message to yashgaroth.11:06
nmz787_i"The above refinements including using less acrylamide polymerization solution, using a centrifugal filter unit, and using fresher phosphoramidite solutions are critical for the catching by polymerization purification technology to be practically useful."11:09
nmz787_ihttps://gfcouita18.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/subway-eat-fresh-us.jpg11:09
kanzurethat's unfortunate11:09
nmz787_i'subway fresh oligo' shows strange image search results11:10
kanzurewhat is the freshness anyway11:10
kanzurewhy not just store it better?11:10
nmz787_ihuh, western PA folks doing cool stuff http://wpamushroomclub.org/the-results-are-in-the-first-four-dna-barcoding-samples/11:10
nmz787_i.title http://dnasubway.iplantcollaborative.org/11:10
yoleauxFast Track to Gene Annotation and Genome Analysis - DNA Subway11:10
-!- FourFire [~FourFire@77.88.71.230] has joined ##hplusroadmap11:12
-!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-24-157.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap11:19
-!- phm42 [~l@2001:8b0:856:1:8154:4dcf:680f:6121] has joined ##hplusroadmap11:20
kanzurehttp://journal.stuffwithstuff.com/2015/02/01/what-color-is-your-function/11:23
sheenaHowever most dogs in Group A yelped at a much lower rate than reported in the above studies, equivalent to roughly half a yelp per fifteen minute training session, during which time dogs could have received several e-stimuli per session. In Group A, the 11:30
sheenahalf a yelp11:30
kanzuremaybe they were trained to produce half yelps11:32
nmz787_iI don't get that colored function rant11:33
-!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]11:33
kanzureit's just async/sync11:33
nmz787_iI guess is it complaining about callbacks being confusing to use?11:33
kanzureno11:33
kanzuremixing async/sync is painful11:33
-!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]11:34
eudoxiait's complaining that async is like the GPL11:34
eudoxiait infects your code11:34
kanzurehaha11:35
kanzureyou're drunk on analogies, go home eudoxia11:35
eudoxiai'm always drunk on analogies, i'm the master of metaphor11:36
gwillenthe red/blue problem is one of the reasons I like the concept of first-class continuations11:36
gwilleneven though I understand they fuck up the language implementation something awful11:36
gwillenbecause once you have them, red-blue interfacing is easy11:36
kanzureeudoxia: socrates philosophies and hypotheses can't define how you be dropping these mockeries11:36
gwillenif you're in a blue function and you need to call a red function, you call/cc it11:36
gwillendone11:36
-!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap11:37
kanzureeudoxia: ( context: the greatest song of all time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqzeizVR7F8 )11:38
gwillenalthough as he explains, 'await' gives you enough of call/cc to solve the problem11:39
-!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined ##hplusroadmap11:42
-!- Katiekat [~Katiekat@host86-168-87-91.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap11:45
Katiekathi11:48
kanzurehello11:48
Katiekatdont even know what biohacking is lol, just searched trans tbh11:49
kanzureyou're in the right place for transfats11:50
Katiekatnot sure if sarcasm or not, completely clueless11:51
Katiekati was searching transgender11:51
cluckjI need philly biohackers!!!!!!!11:51
yoleaux28 Jan 2015 15:28Z <kanzure> cluckj: :/ john brockman published some weird anti-falsifiability stuff http://edge.org/response-detail/2532211:51
cluckjoh shit homework11:52
kanzurenah you just have to unfriend john now11:52
cluckjhah11:53
cluckjphysicists waxing poetic about the philosophy of science11:53
kanzure"third culture" always seemed a little lame to me11:53
cluckjI'll bookmark it and give it a read later, I need to finish unpacking this week11:54
-!- Katiekat [~Katiekat@host86-168-87-91.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"]11:54
kanzure"one of the great intellectual enzymes of our time" - stewart brand11:54
kanzurepfft11:54
kanzurehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brockman_(literary_agent)11:55
kanzureman... i used to like edge.org.11:55
kanzure"Throughout history, only a small number of people have done the serious thinking for everybody. Greece was actually entirely a farcical fabrication of Socrates."11:56
cluckj:\11:56
cluckjew11:56
kanzure.g "Doing Science: The Reality Club"11:57
yoleauxhttp://www.amazon.com/Doing-Science-The-Reality-Club/dp/013795097711:57
cluckjthat quote sounds incredibly elitist11:57
kanzureyeah....12:01
kanzureagreed12:01
cluckjthere's a particular breed of science-y writers that cater to the "woe is me, the intellectually oppressed genius scientist" community12:02
kanzuresomehow he is able to attract the interesting scientists in his surveys though12:02
kanzurelike, even davidad (dalrymple)12:03
cluckjthose writers aren't necessarily awful or uninteresting12:03
cluckjI find them extremely unpalatable to read/watch/listen to12:03
kanzureheh12:06
kanzurehttps://soundcloud.com/dj-mindflash12:12
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]12:26
-!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood]12:38
-!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap12:38
nmz787_iall sorts of connectors http://www.l-com.com/12:43
-!- weles [~mariusz@wsip-174-78-132-9.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]12:43
-!- skyraider [uid41097@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-axdnsudslqsnzhtu] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]12:46
-!- paperlooker [~tiktaalik@50-79-188-182-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap12:50
paperlookerpaperbot: https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-0033-134062412:50
paperbothttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/a2ab2faa404d38f4146d51e5baaa36b5.txt12:50
paperlookerpaperbot: https://www.thieme-connect.de/products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-0033-134062412:54
paperbothttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/d2e7676977546497b05439bbbe23b25f.txt12:55
-!- FourFire [~FourFire@77.88.71.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]12:56
paperlookerpaperbot: https://www.thieme-connect.de/products/ejournals/pdf/10.1055Fs-0033-1340624.pdf12:56
-!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap12:57
paperbothttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/1463ab1c14e1d0c46ad6983aa6fdea8c.txt12:57
paperlookerthis fucking paper :?12:57
paperlooker:/12:57
kanzurego away12:58
kanzureyou clearly don't know how to read html files12:58
kanzurehaha why do they have ads?12:59
kanzure      <script type="text/javascript" src="https://adfarm1.adition.com/js?wp_id=543154&amp;prf[DOI]=10.1055-s-00000083&amp;prf[UserLogin]=false&amp;prf[IPLogin]=true"></script>12:59
paperlookerbut... but... I do. :(12:59
paperlookerthere are no pdf links that don't trigger redirects12:59
kanzureright... because access denied12:59
paperlookerright, I was hoping paperbot had multiple endpoints it could try13:00
kanzurethey all broke13:00
paperlookerT_T13:00
kanzureenjoy the snowpocalypse!13:00
paperlookerpaperbot: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/chin.201425264/abstract13:01
paperlookerthat was last week13:01
paperlookerthis is just a light dusting13:01
-!- DumpsterD1ver [~loki@vpn166.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]13:03
paperbothttp://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/fcb02c4ed25d0ee6b1bcb9f50758579d.txt13:03
paperlookergoddam, access denied again :(13:03
-!- cntrational [~sid@49.205.77.125] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev]13:07
nmz787_iI really should make that proxy getter a bot in here13:11
kanzurei think people over-estimate the amount of magic in paperbot13:12
kanzurepaperbot is full of magic but not all the magics13:12
nmz787_ii can't even try those proxies from here because I don't know the passwords13:13
nmz787_iwhich I guess yay for random passwords13:13
-!- DumpsterD1ver [~loki@vpn166.sdf.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap13:13
nmz787_ibut boo for ease of use13:13
kanzurehttps://soundcloud.com/lesh/dreamtime00713:15
-!- souljack_ [souljack@shell.xshellz.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap13:27
-!- FourFire [~FourFire@2.149.68.123.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap13:29
kanzurehooray https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2015/02/social-contact-not-as-correlated-to-life-expectancy-as-thought.php13:48
phm4242social contact makes you smarter and more productive though.13:51
kanzureaccording to that theory, i should be a supergenius, but i am'n't13:52
kanzureand also, according to dunbar my head should be the size of jupiter13:52
kanzurebut it's merely the size of your admittedly colossal mom13:52
phm4242new low.13:52
kanzurego away :(13:52
phm4242don't be sad.13:52
-!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ13:53
-!- phm4242 [~o@boole.london.hackspace.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]13:58
@kanzureintimidation works13:58
-!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by kanzure13:58
phm42no.14:09
-!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ14:10
@kanzureare you sure?14:10
phm42yes.14:10
nmz787_ikanzure: unless that contact is required IRL14:11
nmz787_iwould you still be a supergenius?14:11
phm42Kanz is a good paperbot. But creative intelligence? Not so much.14:11
@kanzurehuh? the claim is that i am not a supergenius14:11
@kanzurei don't even believe in intelligence why would i believe i am intelligent?14:12
@kanzureyou're the worst troll ever14:12
-!- phm42 was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [phm42]14:12
-!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@103.250.71.249] has joined ##hplusroadmap14:36
-!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-24-157.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving]14:50
FourFirekanzure, what do you mean about your dunbarian number?14:54
FourFireis it 5 digit?14:54
@kanzureaccording to dunbar, the dunbar number does not vary between individuals14:57
-!- FourFire [~FourFire@2.149.68.123.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving]14:58
-!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by kanzure14:58
-!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-237-233-136.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]15:11
-!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-147-175-192.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap15:11
-!- crescend1 is now known as crescendo15:23
-!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-144-131-35-125.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap15:34
-!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]16:01
-!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap16:12
nsh--16:22
nshAlternatively, why aren't we talking about venusforming humans? All space operas seem to start with the earth-standard human in a suit. Compared to geoengineering a whole earth-standard atmosphere, bioengineering an intelligent organism that can thrive in nonearth environments seems fairly sane.16:22
nshThere's a social taboo against human genetic experimentation (hell, some people seem to struggle with vegetables) but that will eventually pass.16:22
nsh-- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=898515116:22
-!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]16:23
-!- drewbot_ [~cinch@ec2-54-205-246-54.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap16:26
-!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-147-175-192.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]16:31
-!- jackybgood [~jackybgoo@153.90.76.217] has joined ##hplusroadmap16:34
-!- nmz787_i [nmccorkx@nat/intel/x-xvlcaxmrrlsyqbpw] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]16:41
-!- jackybgood [~jackybgoo@153.90.76.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]16:43
-!- narwh4l [~michael@unaffiliated/thesnark] has joined ##hplusroadmap16:51
-!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]17:03
-!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-144-131-35-125.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]17:13
-!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-144-131-35-125.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap17:30
-!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has joined ##hplusroadmap17:34
kanzurensh: people don't struggle with vegetables, they struggle with gene patents and monsanto17:42
maakunsh: because venesian cloud cities are so much cooler?18:23
-!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-9-188.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap18:32
-!- delinquentme [~delinquen@162-245-22-166.v250d.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]18:44
nmz787nsh: yeah I have been looking forward to the day I can take off to some country that doesn't care with enough $ (and ideas) to start a lab18:45
nmz787nsh: isn't bioengineering intelligent beings basically transhumanism at this point since we don't really have a better/more intelligent bio-thing to work from (ok maybe dolphins and whales)18:46
nmz787nsh: otherwise kanzure has a list of mod/enhancement ideas somewhere... you could add to it if you've got some18:47
kanzuremany transhumanists scoff at biology because it's hard work18:47
nmz787the spider-silk skin ('bulletproof') seemed like a good idea that could use more work/ideas18:48
nmz787I scoff at those people18:48
nmz787psh18:48
kanzureand you should18:48
nmz787guffaw18:48
kanzureyou should scoff more scoffishly18:48
* nmz787 my dear!18:48
* nmz787 oh my word!18:48
nmz787yahoo-answers: "Whats the meaning of Oh my Word?"    answer 1: "Its just an exclamatory expression in English. Just as you have "Are baapre" in Hindi.... :-)"18:49
nmz787glad I get the intention, but I was hoping for some etymology18:50
kanzurebe careful or else you might actually touch some hardware18:51
maakuwow nerd wankery : http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/lni/computation_complexity_of_agi_design/18:54
jrayhawkhttp://vimeo.com/22616099#t=1284s rad bit of coevolution18:54
kanzure.title18:59
yoleauxHuman Planet. Grasslands on Vimeo18:59
kanzuremaaku: i recommend this paper instead http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/How%20hard%20is%20artificial%20intelligence%3f%20Evolutionary%20arguments%20and%20selection%20effects%20-%20Shulman%20-%20Bostrom.pdf18:59
kanzureonce again lesswrong demonstrates a stunning inability to remember their own arguments19:00
kanzure(you should post that link)19:01
kanzure((you should also read that link))19:02
maakukanzure: it is bizarre. "general intelligence is NP-hard. therefore, impossible" : "how do you explain humans?" : "anthropic principle?" : "ok, how about the fact that the whole field of AI is practical solutions to NP-hard problems?" : "...derp"19:05
kanzureer, your claim is that any practical solution to an NP-hard problem is ai?19:06
maakuno, just that is what narrow AI is -- a toolbox for solving NP-hard problems19:07
maakutherefore, an existance proof that just because you've proved somethiong NP-hard, doesn't mean it isn't solveable in practice19:07
kanzureoh wait,19:09
kanzurefirst, if i was going to complain about that sequence of reasoning,19:09
thundaraNP-hard has a very specific definition... most AI wouldn't guarantee optimality, and if they figured out that out for an NP-hard problem then they'd have solved P = NP19:09
kanzurei would start with "general intelligence is impossible"19:09
kanzureeven if general intelligence is impossible, we already have an existence proof of human brains doing things, so i don't care if general intelligence is impossible19:09
nmz787jrayhawk: cool19:10
nmz787jrayhawk: now I wonder, how did they get that tradition started?19:10
maakukanzure: if you have some mathmatical proof that general intelligence is impossible, i question your definition of "general intelligence"19:10
nmz787like, hey bird, start doing shit for me and I'll feed you19:11
kanzuremaaku: ah but i would say there's an extremely high probability that we suck at describing the interesting characteristics of the human brain in action. we probably just suck at figuring out what it is we want.19:11
* nmz787 wonders what he could convince the reliant outside-cat to do for the food I give it19:11
kanzurenmz787: ask sheena19:12
jrayhawkAt the very least, humans would give birds motivation to congregate due to waste (drips, small pieces of honeycomb, smoke-neutralized bees, larvae). Not sure how the opposite would've started.19:14
maakukanzure: btw, i've seen bostrom's numbers for the difficulty of evolving human intelligence, but it's nice to have the original source. thanks19:14
jrayhawkAltered bioactivity around hives, I guess? Fewer animals, more bugs to eat?19:14
jrayhawkThere are a lot of papers on the subject, they probably have better ideas.19:15
kanzurebees are neutralized by smoke? i thought they just fly off?19:15
nmz787it 'calms them'19:16
nmz787probably basically chokes them out19:16
kanzureoh right, depends on what neutralized means19:16
jrayhawkBlocks pheromone receptors.19:16
nmz787like choking on nitrogen, you don't feel it till you start passing out19:17
jrayhawkThe bees don't die, they just become behaviorally dormant.19:17
nmz787ah so they can't smell the alert the others that realize you're robbing them19:17
-!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-emczxpccgrxziowy] has quit []19:18
-!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xbooqwohmivoqayb] has joined ##hplusroadmap19:19
kanzuremaaku: if i was to work on an evolutionary-attempt at human-like cognitive abilities, i would probably focus on observational learning19:19
JayDugger1Having kept bees with my Dad (as a hobby), "neutralized" is a relative term.19:24
yashgarothkanzure: wrt the paper you linked me, the polymerization of the deletion mutants is the interesting bit; claiming that a centrifuge is "high-throughput" compared to HPLC is stretching it19:40
yoleaux2 Feb 2015 19:06Z <kanzure> yashgaroth: "A highly convenient procedure for oligodeoxynucleotide purification" http://benthamopen.com/contents/pdf/TOOCJ/TOOCJ-8-15.pdf19:40
kanzure"I'm confused. I thought the bubonic plague was treatable with antibiotics. Is it just a matter of not being able to get the antibiotics to them quick enough?"19:41
kanzure"If they need antibiotics so bad, why don't we just send them some American beef?"19:41
kanzureyashgaroth: what did you think about my immortality thing? selective breeding and directed evolution of small critters to survive cryopreservation and cryoresuscitation, then applying similar changes to human genomes during fertilization or after, then doing similar selective breeding of humans?19:43
yashgaroththe problem is getting something with a complex enough brain to be a useful mimic, with a short enough generation time to make directed evolution feasible19:44
yashgarothalso humans are not amenable to selective breeding I've found19:44
kanzureniet niet niet, we would just pander to the ultra-wealthy19:45
kanzure"here, marry this person into your family and your kiddos will live forever"19:45
yashgarothah then more feasible, but more like "fund our research into thawing rabbits and your kids will be frozen until magic future people solve our ills"19:46
kanzureshrug, i'm okay with cryopreservation only working on the healthy19:47
yashgarothaging being an ill, but yes19:47
kanzureoh right19:47
kanzurethat thing19:47
kanzurehmm.19:47
yashgarothI am honestly surprised there isn't an institute just thawing rabbitcicles with various chemicals shot into them19:48
kanzureright... nobody is serious about this shit.19:48
kanzureit's pathetic.19:48
kanzurealso, we could have things like a supply of guide dogs ready to go19:48
yashgarothI forget what the most complex freezable organism is...insects maybe?19:49
kanzuregoldfish?19:49
yashgarothgoldfish are undead they don't count19:50
* kanzure makes a note of this19:50
kanzureapparently dog kidney sort of works19:51
yashgaroththe brain's the real issue, pansy-ass neurons19:51
kanzuretested 37 kidneys, froze, thawed, implanted into dogs, removed other doggy kidney, a few dogs survived and died of old age later19:51
kanzuregood times19:54
yashgarothwith cryoprotectants or what?19:54
kanzurethink so19:56
kanzuredidn't read thoroughly19:56
yashgarothactually does alcor normally include cryoprotectants? do you get to choose the molarity of DMSO they shoot into your corpse19:59
kanzureandytoshi just signed up20:03
kanzureshowed me some of the insurance docs today20:03
kanzureand the answer is no20:03
kanzurejust the defaults20:03
-!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap20:03
yashgarothaww20:04
kanzureyeah life sucks20:07
kanzurewin 320:08
kanzureiefewqjooioioo20:08
-!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-144-131-35-125.lns4.dav.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]20:27
-!- elmhouse [~elmhouse@69-165-235-69.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap20:34
-!- elmhouse [~elmhouse@69-165-235-69.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit []20:37
-!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]20:38
-!- ebowden [~ebowden@CPE-144-131-35-125.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap20:45
-!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap20:57
-!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-9-188.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]20:57
-!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xbooqwohmivoqayb] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]21:28
-!- Merovoth [~Merovoth@gateway/tor-sasl/merovoth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]21:49
-!- kenju254 [~kenju254@static-41-242-0-196.ips.angani.co] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]21:49
-!- kenju254 [~kenju254@static-41-242-0-196.ips.angani.co] has joined ##hplusroadmap21:52
-!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wckztszchmalhbow] has joined ##hplusroadmap21:54
-!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]22:24
-!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has joined ##hplusroadmap22:27
-!- balrog [~balrog@discferret/developer/balrog] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]22:38
-!- lichen [~lichen@c-50-139-11-6.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]23:00
-!- delinquentme [~delinquen@74.61.157.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]23:10
-!- gene_hacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap23:12
-!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wckztszchmalhbow] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]23:58
--- Log closed Tue Feb 03 00:00:43 2015

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!