| --- Log opened Wed Mar 11 00:00:18 2015 | ||
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| archels | http://www.varidesk.com/stand-up-desks | 03:52 |
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| chris_99 | kanzure, the other day you were wondering about transparent beehives - http://urbanbeelab.okno.be/doku.php | 04:27 |
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| kanzure | "brussels urban bee laboratory" | 06:22 |
| kanzure | "She has for decades been a recognized leader pioneering bee hives." | 06:22 |
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| kanzure | "Researchers at MIT have developed a method to stimulate brain tissue using external magnetic fields and injected magnetic nanoparticles — a technique allowing direct stimulation of neurons. The research, conducted by Polina Anikeeva, an assistant professor of materials science and engineering, graduate student Ritchie Chen, and three others, has been published in the journal Science." | 08:15 |
| kanzure | "In their study, the team injected magnetic iron oxide particles just 22 nanometers in diameter into the brain. When exposed to an external alternating magnetic field — which can penetrate deep inside biological tissues — these particles rapidly heat up. The resulting local temperature increase can then lead to neural activation by triggering heat-sensitive capsaicin receptors — the same proteins that the body uses to detect both ... | 08:15 |
| kanzure | ... actual heat and the "heat" of spicy foods. (Capsaicin is the chemical that gives hot peppers their searing taste.) Anikeeva’s team used viral gene delivery to induce the sensitivity to heat in selected neurons in the brain. The particles, which have virtually no interaction with biological tissues except when heated, tend to remain where they’re placed, allowing for long-term treatment without the need for further invasive ... | 08:15 |
| kanzure | ... procedures." | 08:15 |
| kanzure | "The magnetic nanoparticles also have been used for decades as contrast agents in MRI scans, so they are considered relatively safe in the human body." | 08:15 |
| kanzure | "The nanoparticles integrate into the tissue and remain largely intact," Anikeeva says. "Then, that region can be stimulated at will by externally applying an alternating magnetic field. The goal for us was to figure out whether we could deliver stimuli to the nervous system in a wireless and noninvasive way." | 08:15 |
| kanzure | "In addition to Anikeeva and Chen, the research team also included postdoc Gabriela Romero, graduate student Michael Christiansen, and undergraduate Alan Mohr" | 08:15 |
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| archels | do not want | 08:53 |
| archels | if you're going through the trouble to express capsaicin recptors, why not just do optogenetics. geez | 08:53 |
| kanzure | optogenetics is difficult without a glass window | 08:54 |
| ParahSailin | heat receptors are possibly more sensitive | 08:54 |
| archels | if you're going to be as untargeted as magnetic stimulation, just a fibre glued into a hole in the skull will more than suffice | 08:57 |
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| delinquentme | ... I/O .... CPU-bound .... and I think there are two others in this class of bottlnecks ... | 13:29 |
| kanzure | memory bound | 13:30 |
| kanzure | work bound: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-work_system | 13:31 |
| kanzure | which is sorta CPU i guess but sue me | 13:31 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, thoughts on constraints for single instance mongoDB vrs multi-instance | 13:46 |
| kanzure | do you really need mongodb? | 13:46 |
| delinquentme | the constraint on mongo is we're in super research mode, schema is evolving ... and nobody in my work group has run migrations before =X | 13:47 |
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| catern | maybe you should learn | 13:53 |
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| kanzure | delinquentme: use alembic | 13:55 |
| kanzure | delinquentme: migrations are easy to test | 13:55 |
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| delinquentme | kanzure, +1 | 13:56 |
| delinquentme | http://alembic.readthedocs.org/en/latest/tutorial.html | 13:56 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, you'd not use south though huh ? | 13:56 |
| kanzure | i have used south when i am using django | 13:57 |
| kanzure | but i am not often using django | 13:57 |
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| kanzure | win 6 | 14:15 |
| kanzure | gaaaah | 14:15 |
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| fenn | kanzure you know you want some boat anchors http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?46693-Goodwill-s-Comp | 16:31 |
| fenn | those mac pluses are my inheritance | 16:32 |
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| fenn | in 20 years i'll be on antiques roadshow saying "oh my gosh" | 16:32 |
| chris_99 | heh | 16:33 |
| fenn | weird, the NeXT guy was from kamloops | 16:34 |
| fenn | SGI Onyx codename "Terminator" | 16:46 |
| fenn | http://www.nekochan.net/wiki/File:Onyx.gif | 16:46 |
| kanzure | err any boat anchor requests will have to be made more explicit than that | 16:47 |
| kanzure | bbl | 16:47 |
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| fenn | my dad is saving a bunch of mac pluses in the garage for unknown reasons | 16:53 |
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| fenn | well i couldn't find any solid information but it sounds like possibly the whole computer museum is up for grabs | 17:03 |
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| kanzure | fenn: why is your dad tossing all this? | 19:25 |
| kanzure | this person is in kamloops? | 19:25 |
| kanzure | cc sheena | 19:25 |
| fenn | no, the museum that's throwing out old (fancy) computers is in austin | 20:28 |
| kanzure | and your dad is in kamloops? | 20:33 |
| kanzure | why does he have a computer museum in his garage? | 20:34 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: are you going to TBC | 20:39 |
| fenn | some random person who posted something on a forum is in kamloops | 20:40 |
| fenn | my dad does not have a computer museum | 20:40 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: what is TBC? | 20:40 |
| justanotheruser | texas bitcoin conference | 20:41 |
| kanzure | definitely not | 20:42 |
| kanzure | last year was awful | 20:42 |
| kanzure | i do not want to associate myself with those people | 20:42 |
| justanotheruser | I get the impression it's a bit scammy | 20:43 |
| justanotheruser | are you talking about the hackathon? | 20:43 |
| kanzure | i stopped by the hackathon to see what everyone was up to, got trapped in a conversation with ripple labs :( | 20:43 |
| justanotheruser | not worth the trip then? | 20:44 |
| justanotheruser | I was thinking about going because of the hackathon prize of "$1 Million" | 20:44 |
| justanotheruser | but it looks like the requirements are making an altcoin | 20:45 |
| kanzure | don't go | 20:45 |
| justanotheruser | I wasn't going to pay | 20:46 |
| justanotheruser | there lineup is way too weak to pay for | 20:46 |
| justanotheruser | *their | 20:46 |
| kanzure | at this point i suspect the only things worth going to are bitcoin-developer-related stuff | 20:47 |
| kanzure | specifically, reference client devs | 20:47 |
| kanzure | anything else just seems like a waste of time :/ | 20:47 |
| justanotheruser | what conferences are those? panama and? | 20:47 |
| justanotheruser | "The first Million Dollar Blockchain 2.0 Hackathon proved an amazing experience for the participants and added 4 powerful new protocols to the community, Storj.io, DERPA (Tor Coin), La Zooz, and Block Auth. " | 20:48 |
| catern | fenn: thanks for the forum link, I know some retro people who will be interested in this | 20:54 |
| fenn | that's ageist! | 20:55 |
| * fenn looks around for a spare snark mark | 20:55 | |
| fenn | it's certainly sacrilege but i look at those reality engine boards and i can only think about what i'd do with the heatsinks | 20:56 |
| catern | i know some ancient dried up prunish burdens* (who are interested in retrocomputing) | 20:56 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: believe it or not, i don't have a good grasp of which bitcoin conferences the developers are all going to.... somehow these conferences are happening without my knowledge. | 20:57 |
| fenn | that's better. descriptive modifiers are always better than lumping people into categories | 20:57 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: which is weird because i am usually relentless about stalking conferences. that's how i get attendance lists and add to my stalkmatrix. | 20:57 |
| kanzure | "probabilistic stalking" ("yea they might know each other now") | 20:57 |
| catern | hey kanzure am I in your stalkmatrix | 20:57 |
| kanzure | everyone is | 20:58 |
| kanzure | you were first identified on 2014-04-21 | 20:58 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: when did I first come to this channel | 20:58 |
| kanzure | 2013-12-24 perhaps | 20:58 |
| justanotheruser | hah wrong | 20:58 |
| catern | nice, that's probably when I offered to donate a VM inside an academic network to the paperbot cause | 20:58 |
| catern | which I hope you have noted down | 20:59 |
| kanzure | 2013-11-10 | 20:59 |
| catern | since that offer is still open | 20:59 |
| kanzure | at this point i need more devleopers on paperbot | 20:59 |
| catern | did gradstudentbot graduate | 21:00 |
| kanzure | gah i mean 2013-09-10 | 21:00 |
| kanzure | gradstudentbot ran out of material | 21:00 |
| justanotheruser | ehh maybe | 21:00 |
| kanzure | there's only so much comedy i can write | 21:00 |
| kanzure | the same joke said 5000 times gets boring | 21:00 |
| kanzure | also i forgot how to launch him | 21:01 |
| kanzure | so there's that | 21:01 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: I found this https://www.tumblr.com/search/shit%20grad%20students%20say | 21:01 |
| catern | do you care to recruit developers? because I'm sure if you put the word out you might get some developers, it's a p. noble project | 21:01 |
| kanzure | gradstudentbot was based on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovEghdXC4tE | 21:01 |
| kanzure | catern: i am not in a position to recruit for paperbot so openly | 21:02 |
| catern | what if other people recruited for "a project for scraping papers" and referred trustworthy candidates to you | 21:03 |
| justanotheruser | being a grad student isn't *that* bad is it? | 21:03 |
| justanotheruser | *crickets* | 21:03 |
| kanzure | catern: i would be happy to assign them work | 21:04 |
| kanzure | or they could do whatever they want, there's a lot of bugs | 21:04 |
| kanzure | or alternative directions | 21:04 |
| justanotheruser | theres got to be some shady mechanical turk that has access to a lot of papers | 21:04 |
| kanzure | access is not entirely the problem | 21:05 |
| kanzure | it's really hard to just host 50 TB of papers without getting sued | 21:05 |
| justanotheruser | ask them to upload to mega and keep encrypted backups? That's all I've got | 21:06 |
| catern | kanzure: wait is that the primary issue? hosting? | 21:06 |
| kanzure | oh right.. i guess i should consider using megaupload | 21:06 |
| kanzure | catern: pretty much | 21:06 |
| justanotheruser | mego.co.nz | 21:06 |
| kanzure | catern: there are moles in every publishing company totally willing to just dump terabytes upon terabytes of papers | 21:07 |
| catern | bittorrent? | 21:07 |
| catern | i dunno | 21:07 |
| kanzure | nobody seeds | 21:07 |
| catern | right | 21:07 |
| kanzure | libgen has like 0.9 seeders | 21:07 |
| catern | :( | 21:07 |
| catern | how big is libgen again? | 21:07 |
| kanzure | 10 TB | 21:07 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seizure_of_Megaupload#/media/File:MegaUpload_FBI-Banner.jpg | 21:07 |
| catern | hmm | 21:07 |
| kanzure | 12 ish | 21:07 |
| fenn | also they blew up his house with a swat team helicopter, or something | 21:07 |
| kanzure | fenn: nah they are back | 21:08 |
| justanotheruser | that videos really depressing | 21:08 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: welcome to biology | 21:08 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: friends don't let friends go to school | 21:08 |
| catern | wait so | 21:08 |
| catern | why not just put all these papers on libgen? | 21:08 |
| kanzure | well the dude died | 21:08 |
| kanzure | central point of failure | 21:08 |
| kanzure | nobody seeds | 21:08 |
| catern | wait really | 21:08 |
| kanzure | and their connection is 2 kbps | 21:09 |
| catern | i see | 21:09 |
| catern | would new seeders be helpful? | 21:09 |
| fenn | 2kbps is acceptable if there's no other option | 21:09 |
| kanzure | new seeders would be helpful but i don't know if anyone is seeding anymore. someone should go look. | 21:09 |
| fenn | how would you even know? piratebay has no tracker | 21:10 |
| fenn | there are 1000 torrents to manually check | 21:10 |
| kanzure | manually -> programmatically. using computer magics. | 21:10 |
| catern | ugh | 21:12 |
| catern | i'd have to go browse the forums | 21:12 |
| catern | so russian | 21:12 |
| catern | terrifying | 21:12 |
| * fenn mumble mumble "unlimited" backup service | 21:12 | |
| catern | i mean there are definitely | 21:12 |
| catern | lots of | 21:12 |
| catern | actually | 21:13 |
| kanzure | russians are quite resourceful | 21:13 |
| kanzure | they have lived for like 100 years just on beets or something | 21:13 |
| kanzure | and all that science stuff. | 21:13 |
| catern | there are lots of people who would be willing to provide bandwidth and storage if it wasn't risky | 21:13 |
| kanzure | pretty nice of them to give us a massive library | 21:13 |
| kanzure | we're so book-poor | 21:13 |
| fenn | how nice of them to steal our publically funded research papers for us | 21:13 |
| catern | does anyone have a ready link to the libgen torrent file list | 21:14 |
| kanzure | yeah, they are providing a necessary public service | 21:14 |
| kanzure | hmm | 21:14 |
| catern | or like, an archive of all of the torrents | 21:14 |
| kanzure | "On December 29th, 2014, LibGen made an announcement http://genofond.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7611 Their entire collection of scientific articles is being released to the torrent network. This repository contains over 35 million articles. Over 25TB of data." | 21:15 |
| kanzure | ftp://libgen.in/scimag_torrent/ | 21:15 |
| fenn | catern http://fennetic.net/irc/libgen_magnets_0-789.txt | 21:15 |
| kanzure | "The overall collection is split into archives of 1000 files each. Each torrent in this bundle contains 100 such archives. That means each torrent in this bundle contains 100,000 files. There are 350 torrent here -- making 35,000,000 files." | 21:16 |
| catern | 0-789, is that all of them? | 21:16 |
| kanzure | "As with the main LibGen repository, this one also has an associated database of metadata. ftp://ftp.libgen.in/dbdumps/ " | 21:16 |
| kanzure | "Once again, the data itself is not readily accessible without the metadata database and a front end. Fortunately, karl_karlsson has once again created a portable version that requires no installation. (It does require set up.) http://genofond.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=607 " | 21:16 |
| kanzure | "A link to the front-end can be found here. (I have a problem with the CSS, but the search etc works fine). http://genofond.org/viewtopic.php?p=59793#p59793 " | 21:17 |
| catern | it's also important to maintain easy access to the data I guess | 21:17 |
| fenn | 0-789 is 3 years old | 21:17 |
| catern | ah, ok | 21:17 |
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| kanzure | empty :( ftp://ftp.libgen.in/scimag_torrent/ | 21:18 |
| kanzure | oh, not empty | 21:18 |
| kanzure | fenn plz wget -m -np | 21:18 |
| kanzure | ftp://ftp.libgen.org/dbdumps/scimag_dbbackup-YYYY-MM-DD.rar | 21:19 |
| kanzure | http://genofond.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7611 | 21:19 |
| fenn | what's the difference between the 1.3GB dumps and the 260MB dumps | 21:19 |
| kanzure | "RayMolacha wrote: An anecdote. When Aaron Swartz died two years ago, as sort of a memorial, I put up a torrent of 35GB of old JSTOR files." wait a sec i know this guy | 21:20 |
| kanzure | how is this guy not gmaxwell? | 21:21 |
| catern | it would sure be nice have a not-md5-named dump | 21:21 |
| fenn | oh i have other lists | 21:22 |
| fenn | they are much bigger | 21:23 |
| catern | i don't actually know what i just said, just going off the post kanzure just quoted | 21:23 |
| fenn | uff 100kB/s upload | 21:26 |
| kanzure | yeah so those 35 TB sounds like basically humanity's best resource ever | 21:26 |
| catern | hm | 21:26 |
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| kanzure | so one idea is that this data set could be distributed for academic study of science itself | 21:29 |
| kanzure | for example, data mining people | 21:29 |
| kanzure | "well i needed this data set so that i could perform research on 35 million samples" | 21:29 |
| kanzure | many researchers are already running algorithms against large data sets from publishers | 21:30 |
| kanzure | but this is the largest | 21:30 |
| kanzure | and no single publisher can offer more comprehensive data (although publishers can probably, presently, offer more friendly formats for their data) | 21:30 |
| catern | that's clever | 21:30 |
| kanzure | anyway perhaps the big data academic community should be harassed until they do this | 21:30 |
| catern | that seems a bit risky | 21:32 |
| kanzure | they are already doing those studies | 21:33 |
| kanzure | and they also do studies on "malware" | 21:33 |
| kanzure | they don't seem to get permission from the copyright owners of the malware | 21:33 |
| catern | heh | 21:33 |
| kanzure | freaking double standards, man | 21:33 |
| catern | the copyright owners of the malware also don't have lawyers | 21:33 |
| catern | probably | 21:33 |
| kanzure | no, they are lawyers | 21:34 |
| fenn | ok since i couldn't download it from libgen.in, here's what i do have http://fennetic.net/irc/libgen_torrents_0-832.7z | 21:34 |
| kanzure | DRM malware is almost universally the result of lawyer involvement | 21:34 |
| fenn | (just file lists and hashes, not the actual data) | 21:34 |
| catern | i bet someone out there could think of clever solutions for this | 21:35 |
| kanzure | bill gates should just buy elsevier | 21:36 |
| kanzure | how's that for fucking philanthropic bill | 21:36 |
| * kanzure drops mic | 21:37 | |
| fenn | there's also index 0-824.csv which has these fields: "ID","Title","VolumeInfo","Series","Periodical","Author","Year","Edition","Publisher","City","Pages","Language","Topic","Librar | 21:38 |
| fenn | y","Issue","Identifier","ISSN","ASIN","UDC","LBC","DDC","LCC","Doi","Googlebookid","Commentary","DPI","Color","Cleaned","Orient | 21:38 |
| fenn | ation","Paginated","Scanned","Vector","Bookmarked","Searchable","Filesize","Extension","MD5","CRC32","eDonkey","AICH","SHA1","T | 21:38 |
| fenn | TH","Generic","Filename","Visible","Locator","Local","TimeAdded","TimeLastModified","Coverurl" | 21:38 |
| catern | doing things when the law is against you sure is annoying, you can't publicize to ask for help | 21:38 |
| kanzure | buying elsevier is not against the law | 21:38 |
| catern | we should make a chain of trust of people who aren't narcs | 21:38 |
| fenn | and use snarks to do it? | 21:39 |
| catern | /s | 21:39 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/snarks/ | 21:39 |
| fenn | SNARKS AGAINST NARCS - PROUDLY WANKING SINCE WORMS AGAINST NUCLEAR KILLERS | 21:39 |
| kanzure | perhaps something like a proof of narc | 21:40 |
| kanzure | or proof of narf | 21:40 |
| fenn | proof of whorage | 21:40 |
| fenn | i don't actually know what a snark is | 21:43 |
| catern | one important thing is to just | 21:44 |
| catern | get this dataset into as many hands as possible | 21:44 |
| catern | by that I mean disks | 21:45 |
| catern | because it's big enough that it actually takes time to get if you have some clever idea for doing something with it | 21:45 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/mit-bitcoin-expo-2015/zerocash-and-zero-knowledge-succint-arguments-of-knowledge-libsnark/ | 21:45 |
| kanzure | "There must be proof. We also want this to be zero knowledge. Bob must not learn a nything about Alice's transaction history by examining the proof. It must be non-interactive, which means that Bob can verify the correctness without interacting with any accountant digital or real. It must be posted on the ledger. It must be succinct. Small and easy to verify. Finally, we want the cryptographic property known as proof-of-knowledge. We ... | 21:45 |
| kanzure | ... want to ensure that Alice knows the secret behind the transaction. What does it mean that there exists a signature? We want to know that Alice knows the signing key for such a signature" | 21:46 |
| kanzure | "All of those properties when taken together are actually impossible. So we relax this from being a proof to being an argument. It holds if cryptography is not broken. If you take all of them together now, a succinct non-interactive proof of knowledge, called snark. This is call zkSNARK when put together." | 21:46 |
| fenn | shouldnt it be called "non interactive argument of knowledge" then | 21:46 |
| kanzure | ask -wizards | 21:46 |
| fenn | anyway how is this not just a signature | 21:47 |
| fenn | alice signs whatever, therefore she has the signature | 21:47 |
| fenn | er, therefore she has the key | 21:47 |
| kanzure | andytoshi: you want to take this one? | 21:48 |
| catern | maybe as disk capacity grows this will become easier | 21:49 |
| catern | (distributing this dataset) | 21:49 |
| kanzure | dataset will grow only faster | 21:49 |
| catern | eh | 21:50 |
| catern | paper output isn't growing exponentially is it? | 21:50 |
| fenn | storage is growing faster than publishing | 21:50 |
| kanzure | i think we are up to +10 million/year | 21:50 |
| kanzure | wait i might be off by an order of magnitude | 21:50 |
| fenn | bandwidth is not keeping up though | 21:51 |
| kanzure | between 1 and 10 million/year | 21:51 |
| catern | no way is that going to grow exponentially | 21:51 |
| kanzure | as academia has its last death throws there will be a tremendous spike | 21:51 |
| fenn | i dont get why the db dumps are ~10 times the size of the .csv file | 21:52 |
| kanzure | they might be sql dumps | 21:52 |
| kanzure | so, syntax | 21:52 |
| kanzure | "INSERT INTO (blah, blah, blah) VALUES (blah, blah, blah)" | 21:53 |
| fenn | that compresses out pretty well | 21:54 |
| fenn | i'm thinking maybe it has cover thumbnail images | 21:55 |
| kanzure | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwyF176ToJ4&t=8s | 21:56 |
| fenn | it's even better in german | 21:59 |
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| fenn | eta 13h 45m isn't too bad i guess | 22:01 |
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| kanzure_ | chimpanzee using a touch screen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkNV0rSndJ0 | 22:05 |
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| kanzure_ | chimpanzee using a touch screen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkNV0rSndJ0 | 22:06 |
| kanzure_ | "let's play pacman (with a chimpanzee)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7ttRaXlnfs | 22:07 |
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| kanzure_ | that's the coolest job ever | 22:08 |
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| fenn | i'm impressed with how well they play pacman, but the number sequence thing shows just how different we are | 22:12 |
| fenn | unless that's just due to huge amounts of practice | 22:12 |
| kanzure_ | when i am doing tasks like that i usually offload almost everything into motor planning and peripheral vision | 22:13 |
| fenn | time to take kanzure down to the primate lab for testing | 22:14 |
| kanzure_ | they should breed the chimps based on pacman scores | 22:15 |
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| sheena | i only read the stuff around my mention, not stuff in the middle. | 22:40 |
| sheena | anyone wanna teach me how/if i can overclock a laptop? | 22:41 |
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