| --- Log opened Wed Apr 22 00:00:29 2015 | ||
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| FourFire | kanzure: does Temple Grandin still work in the field? | 00:29 |
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| kanzure | dunno | 00:48 |
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| nsh | anyone done any SMT or otherwise constrain solving stuff | 02:24 |
| nsh | ? | 02:24 |
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| archels | conclusion about NeuroML(2)/LEMS: it's a goddamn mess | 03:02 |
| archels | moving on to NineML | 03:02 |
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| archels | oh right, and there's SpineML too, which is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike NineML | 03:38 |
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| archels | neat, v1.0 of the spec just came out 5 days ago http://tclose.github.io/nineml//9ML/1.0/NineML_v1.0.pdf | 04:11 |
| archels | I think this release outmodes SpineML | 04:19 |
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| kanzure | archels: perhaps avoid things that are based on markup languages | 06:49 |
| kanzure | there is a workshop called, "Jumping the Paywall: How to freely share research without being arrested." | 06:50 |
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| archels | kanzure: but then how am I to specify my models? | 07:19 |
| archels | ("procedurally" being one obvious answer, but that's not very interchangeable) | 07:19 |
| archels | uh so then apparently there is the approach of doing some magic on an xslt file to turn an xml directly into a bunch of C++ classes | 07:41 |
| kanzure | i think you mean an xsd file not xslt | 07:41 |
| archels | hmm this webpage says "XSLT scripts" http://bimpa.group.shef.ac.uk/SpineML/index.php/Brahms | 07:43 |
| kanzure | you can use stuff like jaxb to generate classes from xsd files | 07:43 |
| kanzure | also pyxb | 07:44 |
| archels | it feels dirty somehow | 07:44 |
| kanzure | correct | 07:44 |
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| kanzure | http://gavintech.blogspot.com/2015/04/joining-mit-media-lab-digital-currency.html | 07:59 |
| FourFire | kanzure: how much does it cost to attend this workshop and where is it? | 07:59 |
| kanzure | no idea | 07:59 |
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| kanzure | https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/color-changing-flowers | 08:53 |
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| nmz787_i | .title http://hackaday.com/2015/04/22/a-diy-fourier-transform-spectrometer/ | 13:18 |
| yoleaux | A DIY Fourier Transform Spectrometer | Hackaday | 13:18 |
| nmz787_i | looks like they used a piezo rather than a voice coil | 13:18 |
| chris_99 | oh i saw that i need to read through it | 13:22 |
| nmz787_i | I should video record the FTIR I have while it moves its voice coil | 13:25 |
| nmz787_i | it's pretty cool to watch | 13:25 |
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| chris_99 | you tried the blue spectrometer yet btw? | 13:28 |
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| kanzure | the mantis shrimp would be a good mascot for a spectrophotometer | 13:41 |
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| FourFire | ye | 14:17 |
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| kanzure | .title http://arxiv.org/abs/1502.07373 | 14:24 |
| yoleaux | [1502.07373] The Spy in the Sandbox -- Practical Cache Attacks in Javascript | 14:24 |
| kanzure | n/win 6 | 14:24 |
| kanzure | fiewqjfqi | 14:24 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: not yet... been in between too many things lately, moving this week :( | 14:36 |
| chris_99 | oh got the SEM also? | 14:37 |
| nmz787_i | still at the sellers, but moving that either Friday or early next week, then I'll at least start to take photos while I do my initial poking around | 14:44 |
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| chris_99 | cool | 14:53 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1zx7ZacM48 | 14:57 |
| yoleaux | Dethklok - Impeach God music video - YouTube | 14:57 |
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| catern | *impeaching* god is a little peaceful and ruleabiding for a band called dethklok | 15:12 |
| kanzure | deep down inside they are softies | 15:16 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkn7HGvZP_4 | 15:26 |
| yoleaux | Dethklok - Dethalbum III - Biological Warfare [HD, with lyrics] - YouTube | 15:26 |
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| Adlai | lbu30 | 16:01 |
| kanzure | hm? | 16:01 |
| Adlai | call it a typo | 16:04 |
| kanzure | password confirmed | 16:04 |
| Adlai | shitshitshit | 16:04 |
| kanzure | password confirmed | 16:04 |
| Adlai | life will suck once MRI resolution reaches password parity, or worse, privkey | 16:04 |
| * Adlai wonders what transhumanist steganography looks like | 16:05 | |
| kanzure | you'll have to keep your emulation hardware hidden somewhere | 16:05 |
| Adlai | disguise it as javascript | 16:05 |
| kanzure | and also make sure you don't leak infrared | 16:05 |
| kanzure | no i mean like in a mountain | 16:05 |
| Adlai | aha | 16:05 |
| kanzure | or bottom of the ocean | 16:06 |
| kanzure | that sort of thing | 16:06 |
| Adlai | so a planet can support how many mutually antagonistic informational beings? a few dozen ? | 16:06 |
| Adlai | there must be a better approach | 16:06 |
| kanzure | well you could always blow up the planet | 16:06 |
| kanzure | if that's what you're looking for | 16:06 |
| * Adlai greps the reading list for homomorphic encryption | 16:07 | |
| Adlai | er, sorry. call that a think-o | 16:07 |
| Adlai | full-program obfuscation maybe? | 16:07 |
| kanzure | emulations will probably be somewhat interested in verifyable execution | 16:07 |
| Adlai | https://eprint.iacr.org/2014/779.pdf | 16:07 |
| kanzure | but really you don't want to be running on someone's "cloud" while thinking about anything remtely private | 16:07 |
| kanzure | *remotely | 16:08 |
| kanzure | s/thinking/knowing | 16:08 |
| Adlai | thank you for that wonderful perspective... casting off the mother of all burkas gradually turns a planet to a cloud. singular. | 16:09 |
| kanzure | insecure emulations are in danger of being sweeped together into the same emulation by malware or adversaries, or deleted all at once or crashed through other nefarious means | 16:10 |
| kanzure | biological cells are a good example of making trade-offs for which parts are vitamin parts versus which parts are self-manufactured from components laying around | 16:11 |
| kanzure | usually with attempted boundaries during reproduction/replication so that other genetic material can't hijack the substantial resource investment required for replication | 16:12 |
| * Adlai wonders what peer-review that trade-off has seen in the past 3.5BYA | 16:12 | |
| kanzure | (in ai/emulation terms that is going to mean verifiable hardware, chip fabrication, power stations, etc.) | 16:12 |
| kanzure | well different cells make that trade-off differently | 16:13 |
| kanzure | or rather, different organisms | 16:13 |
| kanzure | http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/education/239435-scientific-publishing-policy-should-be-based-on-facts-not | 16:29 |
| kanzure | hahaa "Two recently introduced bills, the Fair Access to Science and Technology Research Act (FASTR) and the Public Access to Public Science Act (PAPS) would do just that, undermining this country’s global leadership in scientific publishing. How? Both set arbitrary and ill-considered post-publication embargo periods, between six and twelve months, after which scholarly articles reporting on federally funded research must be given away ... | 16:31 |
| kanzure | ... for free. These embargoes are too short for publishers in many disciplines to recover costs for the substantial investments they make to ensure the wide availability and integrity of articles that report on research. " | 16:31 |
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| kanzure | .title https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12784 | 17:00 |
| yoleaux | SparkFun ToF Range Finder Breakout - VL6180 - SEN-12784 - SparkFun Electronics | 17:00 |
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| kanzure | "Vestibular stimulation reduces unrealistic optimism" http://precedings.nature.com/documents/4519/version/1/files/npre20104519-1.pdf | 17:07 |
| kanzure | but... i want more optimism. | 17:07 |
| kanzure | " but the gist is if you squirt cold water in your left ear" | 17:07 |
| nmz787_i | kanzure: that sensor is what chris_99 was playing with and got onto hackaday for | 17:13 |
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| kanzure | "Post-hoc tests using the Bonferroni correction revealed that, compared to baseline, average risk estimates were significantly higher during left-ear CI (p = .016), whereas they remained unchanged during right-ear CI (p = .476). Unrealistic optimism was thus reduced selectively during left-ear stimulation." | 17:13 |
| kanzure | "I want to make an array of them with a spinning faceted mirror" | 17:14 |
| kanzure | "and try to make a 2d laser scanner" | 17:14 |
| kanzure | "for rapid mapping by drones" | 17:14 |
| fenn | is that vestibular thing fo realz? | 17:15 |
| fenn | hmm somehow they're detecting that i'm using wget | 17:17 |
| kanzure | --user-agent="blah" | 17:17 |
| fenn | nup | 17:17 |
| kanzure | "also I think it might not be super useful if you don't have many biases to begin with pertaining to what you're trying to make decisions on" | 17:18 |
| kanzure | "but it'd be a useful technique for changing the minds of less rational individuals" | 17:18 |
| kanzure | hah | 17:18 |
| fenn | how can someone be so deluded as to think they don't have biases | 17:18 |
| kanzure | that's why i only punch up... wait.. i mean down? | 17:19 |
| fenn | your faux SJW rhetoric is triggering me | 17:19 |
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| fenn | "left ear caloric irrigation" sounds unpleasant | 17:20 |
| ForrestFlanagan | it's not so bad | 17:20 |
| fenn | hey old timer | 17:21 |
| ForrestFlanagan | it's dizzying, but not barfy, at least for me | 17:21 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I think it's useful if you want to confirm your thinking on something critical that you think you might have biases about | 17:22 |
| ForrestFlanagan | but it's probably more useful for reverse interrogating less rational people | 17:22 |
| ForrestFlanagan | hey fenn, ever find anything that works well for automatically tracking sleep/wake? | 17:23 |
| ForrestFlanagan | like a wearable, or a phisiological thing that a camera could observe? | 17:24 |
| fenn | uh.. there are a zillion consumer products for that now | 17:24 |
| fenn | but "works well"? i dunno, never tried any | 17:24 |
| ForrestFlanagan | yeah that's what I was digging for | 17:24 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I tend to just drift off lately | 17:25 |
| fenn | accelerometer + heart rate should be reasonably accurate i would think | 17:26 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I was questioning if heart rate was a good enough indicator | 17:26 |
| fenn | there are various fitness bracelets that do this now | 17:26 |
| fenn | you'd probably want something that could also measure heart rate variability | 17:26 |
| ForrestFlanagan | if it is good enough it sounds like a job for a dedicated camera above the bed and eulerian video amplification | 17:27 |
| fenn | to measure heart beats? | 17:27 |
| ForrestFlanagan | yeah | 17:27 |
| ForrestFlanagan | just amplify color | 17:27 |
| fenn | hm ok | 17:27 |
| fenn | i'm usually under a blanket when i sleep | 17:28 |
| ForrestFlanagan | a lot of synthetic fabrics are at least IR transparent | 17:28 |
| ForrestFlanagan | not sure how heartbeat would show up though | 17:29 |
| fenn | a long time ago at a qs meetup some guy demoed his system which was an air mattress with a microphone stuck into the inflation port to sense vibrations... he could reliably pick up invidivual heart beats, movements, and breathing | 17:29 |
| ForrestFlanagan | oh, that works | 17:29 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I just don't like air mattresses | 17:29 |
| ForrestFlanagan | also cats | 17:29 |
| ForrestFlanagan | would pop them | 17:29 |
| fenn | you don't like cats? or the cats don't like air mattressess? or both? | 17:30 |
| ForrestFlanagan | pretty cool though | 17:30 |
| ForrestFlanagan | just the middle one | 17:30 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I was thinking along those lines | 17:30 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I was looking at this mems barometer part with onboard I2C and 24 bit AD converter | 17:31 |
| fenn | that's a lot of bits | 17:31 |
| ForrestFlanagan | and thermometer | 17:31 |
| fenn | .wa 2^24 | 17:31 |
| yoleaux | 2²⁴: 16777216; Scientific notation: 1.6777216 × 10⁷; Number name: 16 million 777 thousand 216; Number line: http://is.gd/Qkn1um; Number length: 8 decimal digits | 17:32 |
| ForrestFlanagan | it's accurate enough you can calculate altitude, onboard, with better than 1ocm stability | 17:32 |
| ForrestFlanagan | 10cm | 17:32 |
| ForrestFlanagan | that like, you could tell what step you were on in a building, and whether or not you were crouching | 17:32 |
| ForrestFlanagan | but the AD is delta sigma, so it's balls slow | 17:33 |
| fenn | something like that | 17:33 |
| fenn | gps gives you actual altitude | 17:33 |
| fenn | but it turns out air pressure is all over the place at any given altitude | 17:33 |
| ForrestFlanagan | it's more than good enough for indoor mapping | 17:34 |
| nmz787_i | ForrestFlanagan: I just saw this earlier https://www.mybasis.com/ | 17:34 |
| nmz787_i | "THE ULTIMATE FITNESS AND SLEEP TRACKER" | 17:34 |
| nmz787_i | http://www.mybasis.com/blog/2014/03/basis-health-tracker-acquired-by-intel/ | 17:35 |
| nmz787_i | I might be able to test one | 17:35 |
| fenn | wut | 17:35 |
| fenn | they barely even had a product out before they were acquired? | 17:35 |
| kanzure | it's because intel wants in on healthcare money | 17:36 |
| kanzure | they have made related acquisitions recently | 17:36 |
| ForrestFlanagan | interesting | 17:36 |
| ForrestFlanagan | oh, so reason I wanted to play with crazy barometer | 17:37 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I wanted to couple it with a capillary tube full of transmission fluid | 17:37 |
| ForrestFlanagan | then embed that in concrete | 17:37 |
| ForrestFlanagan | then get a bunch of them and do footstep triangulation stuff | 17:38 |
| ForrestFlanagan | for home automation, gait distinguishment, security, etc | 17:38 |
| ForrestFlanagan | but delta sigma is too slow, and I can't find a better solution made by anyone yet | 17:39 |
| fenn | do you really need all 24 bits or just the least significant nibble? | 17:39 |
| ForrestFlanagan | the nibble, really | 17:39 |
| ForrestFlanagan | er, probably a full byte off the least significant side would do | 17:40 |
| fenn | so, uh, is it possible to just read the least significant nibble and then start a new sample? | 17:40 |
| ForrestFlanagan | nah, it's too integrated | 17:40 |
| fenn | what if you had an analog sensor | 17:41 |
| ForrestFlanagan | the integrated solutions are required for that much accuracy | 17:41 |
| ForrestFlanagan | it'd be below the noise floor otherwise | 17:41 |
| fenn | time of flight seems more useful for triangulation anyway | 17:41 |
| ForrestFlanagan | the future will bring better integrated solutions | 17:42 |
| fenn | except concrete is a terrible transmission medium (high damping coefficient because it's made of different matierials) | 17:42 |
| ForrestFlanagan | this one would be great if it were just more configurable | 17:42 |
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| * fenn mumbles something about ghost in the shell | 17:43 | |
| ForrestFlanagan | oh, you mean the tensile components? | 17:43 |
| fenn | it's got sand and granite rocks and portlant cement and air bubbles and rebar | 17:43 |
| fenn | great for making machine tools out of though :) | 17:44 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I was hoping to fine tune the rheological characteristics by playing chemistry set with transmission fluid | 17:44 |
| ForrestFlanagan | it's possible this might just work on specialized portland cement | 17:45 |
| ForrestFlanagan | concrete machine tools.. that's pretty cool sounding | 17:45 |
| ForrestFlanagan | not my focus atm though | 17:45 |
| ForrestFlanagan | hahaha | 17:45 |
| fenn | would capacitive sensing work for the gait stuff? | 17:46 |
| ForrestFlanagan | what if I fine tuned the rheology to dirt in an area | 17:46 |
| ForrestFlanagan | then just drone=dropped these things like little solar garden lights with mesh radios | 17:46 |
| fenn | thumpers | 17:47 |
| ForrestFlanagan | the resolution would suffer, sure | 17:47 |
| fenn | .title http://youtu.be/CLgnpb1XmW4 | 17:47 |
| yoleaux | Dune: Extend Scene: Stilgar Explains Sandworm Riding - YouTube | 17:47 |
| ForrestFlanagan | but seismometry over a large area could be really useful for security | 17:47 |
| ForrestFlanagan | like it'd be a good way to cover a major acreage | 17:49 |
| fenn | wrong video nevermind | 17:49 |
| Adlai | this seems like exactly the right video, i'll mind it | 17:50 |
| ForrestFlanagan | loudspeaker drone flies out to triangulation of human footsteps "I'mma give you count three to get offa' my property" | 17:50 |
| fenn | .title http://youtu.be/NrG4g6yNLJU | 17:51 |
| yoleaux | Dune - Shai Hulud - David Lynch - YouTube | 17:51 |
| fenn | i always feel sorry for the worm | 17:53 |
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| kanzure | snails and slugs are pretty smart, considering they only have 10k neurons | 17:54 |
| fenn | also, bees care | 17:54 |
| kanzure | their social behavior is also a little suspicious | 17:54 |
| kanzure | bees have far more | 17:55 |
| fenn | but only if they can smell the pain | 17:55 |
| kanzure | hm? | 17:55 |
| fenn | bees will attack if you have squished bee juice on you | 17:55 |
| fenn | or hurt bee pheremone, really | 17:56 |
| kanzure | according to the quote above (from yesterday), no | 17:56 |
| fenn | yeah i think that's wrong | 17:56 |
| fenn | maybe his bees were sociopaths | 17:56 |
| fenn | bred by nazi eugenics programs | 17:56 |
| kanzure | even a sociopath knows when to run | 17:56 |
| fenn | ok maybe they were just stupid then | 17:57 |
| fenn | there is a serious bee problem though, and it seems to be remedied by outbreeding with the african bees | 17:57 |
| ForrestFlanagan | if the bee juice thing is true that would be really exploitable | 17:57 |
| fenn | "don't move or i'll summon a swarm of bees!" | 17:58 |
| kanzure | attach bee hive under drone | 17:58 |
| kanzure | simple | 17:58 |
| fenn | is there a pokemon bee that stings once and then just dies? | 17:58 |
| kanzure | nah | 17:59 |
| kanzure | i think slugs have to be smart otherwise they backtrack and die | 18:01 |
| kanzure | very strong constraints regarding dehydration | 18:01 |
| fenn | not backtracking is simple | 18:02 |
| ForrestFlanagan | have you seen those trails? | 18:02 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I've seen them like just make knots | 18:03 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I mean the trail is right there you can avoid running in frantic circles | 18:03 |
| fenn | i wonder how to make a seismometer that could survive being fired out of a gun | 18:04 |
| fenn | maybe you could just fill it with (dry) ice | 18:04 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I think the barometer and tube thing would work | 18:05 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I've fired some fragile crap out of a shotgun | 18:05 |
| ForrestFlanagan | works fine | 18:05 |
| fenn | then to set up a perimeter you just shoot lawn-dart thingies in a circle around | 18:05 |
| fenn | i must have seen this somewhere before | 18:06 |
| ForrestFlanagan | heh, that'd be awesome | 18:08 |
| fenn | mothballs take a long time to sublimate | 18:08 |
| ForrestFlanagan | oh | 18:08 |
| fenn | what sublimates and is more volatile than mothballs but lower vapor pressure than CO2? | 18:08 |
| ForrestFlanagan | and if you wanted a really large denial area, there could be triangulation based on seismometers and an AGL | 18:09 |
| fenn | AGL? | 18:09 |
| fenn | lidar? | 18:10 |
| ForrestFlanagan | it's like a green minefield | 18:10 |
| ForrestFlanagan | Automatic Grenade launcher | 18:10 |
| fenn | oh | 18:10 |
| ForrestFlanagan | with smart fuses, for airburst capability | 18:10 |
| ForrestFlanagan | could probably mortar like a kilometer radius and just airburst non-lethal rounds to incapacitate | 18:11 |
| ForrestFlanagan | essentially just drop a CS/Flashbang/Rubber combo every few minutes until someone can drive out to figure out wtf | 18:12 |
| fenn | i'd be more interested in doing reconaissance _before_ dropping grenades on whatever it was | 18:12 |
| ForrestFlanagan | well sure, that's what cooled infrared cams are for | 18:13 |
| fenn | this sounds like a fun extreme sport | 18:13 |
| ForrestFlanagan | heh, two way radio from the AGL | 18:14 |
| fenn | i used to make crap like this for paintball games, back before people decided the game had actual rules | 18:14 |
| ForrestFlanagan | hahaha, I'd love that | 18:15 |
| ForrestFlanagan | that always killed me about robot battles too | 18:15 |
| ForrestFlanagan | all the cool useful innovative stuff is banned | 18:16 |
| fenn | yeah now it's all just wedges and spinners | 18:16 |
| ForrestFlanagan | so it's just a boring game of wedges vs spinners | 18:16 |
| ForrestFlanagan | HA | 18:16 |
| fenn | no jamming, no thermite, no sticky glue | 18:16 |
| fenn | to say nothing of actually sophisticated mechanisms | 18:16 |
| fenn | aaron beck is designing a mecha for some mecha combat contest TV show | 18:17 |
| fenn | it's just simulated combat though | 18:17 |
| fenn | PVC pipe rockets and paintball guns | 18:17 |
| ForrestFlanagan | Like I'd love to use an eddy current based weapon on a bot | 18:18 |
| fenn | oops i meant alex iglesias http://www.megabots.com/ | 18:19 |
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| ForrestFlanagan | hahaha that's awesome | 18:21 |
| ForrestFlanagan | odd robot I'd like to see would be jumping | 18:22 |
| fenn | like a kangaroo? | 18:22 |
| fenn | the most efficient animal | 18:22 |
| ForrestFlanagan | basically, go way airborn and guide the fall with automated systems | 18:23 |
| ForrestFlanagan | there's too many limits on pneumatics, hydraulics, stored sprint energy, etc | 18:23 |
| ForrestFlanagan | not to mention automated systems | 18:24 |
| ForrestFlanagan | oh, why were you thinking of sublimation materials? | 18:25 |
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| ForrestFlanagan | I know some materials, but maybe something else would work? | 18:27 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I just missed the context of the problem. | 18:27 |
| ForrestFlanagan | seismometer, firing, dry ice, moth balls | 18:29 |
| fenn | to keep the sensor from breaking during high-g acceleration during firing | 18:30 |
| fenn | it would be encased/filled with a solid material | 18:30 |
| ForrestFlanagan | why not dissolvable? | 18:31 |
| ForrestFlanagan | also a sabot would work for just getting it out of the gun | 18:31 |
| ForrestFlanagan | when I make shotgun loads I just put them in the little plastic cups that are for that sort of thing | 18:32 |
| fenn | yeah i guess a solid foam would work, but needs more stuff to happen, like you have to puncture a solvent container or something | 18:32 |
| fenn | sugar cubes + water = sugar water | 18:34 |
| ForrestFlanagan | glass | 18:34 |
| fenn | glass? | 18:35 |
| ForrestFlanagan | is water soluble | 18:35 |
| fenn | er, it is? | 18:35 |
| ForrestFlanagan | sorry, had phone | 18:36 |
| ForrestFlanagan | yeah, leave out the alkali earth metals when you're melting the glass, it's totally water soluble | 18:37 |
| ForrestFlanagan | works just like regular glass every other way, except is dissolves in water | 18:37 |
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| ForrestFlanagan | can't find a commercial source for the stuff, maybe the company went under | 18:40 |
| fenn | just potassium hydroxide right? | 18:40 |
| fenn | hum. maybe sodium silicate | 18:41 |
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| ForrestFlanagan | no no, sodium silicate is a cool thing with it's own applications | 18:44 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I can go on and on about the cash for clunkers program, but I won't | 18:45 |
| ForrestFlanagan | dug up some stuff from the company I can't find at the moment | 18:45 |
| ForrestFlanagan | archives | 18:45 |
| ForrestFlanagan | Most glass is made by melting together sand (silica), soda and lime. The soda reduces the sand’s melting point, which makes it easier to create glass; but the soda also makes glass water-soluble, so lime is typically added to restore insolubility. The glass featured here is made using only silica and soda. Essentially, anything made of conventional glass can be made with water-soluble glass. It is currently used as | 18:45 |
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| fenn | "sodium silicate was also used to cement the top wad into brass shotgun shells, thereby eliminating any need for a crimp at the top of the brass shotgun shell to hold a shotgun shell together. Reloading brass shotgun shells was widely practiced by self-reliant American farmers during the 1870s, using the same waterglass material that was also used to preserve eggs. The cementing of the top wad on | 18:46 |
| fenn | a shotgun shell consisted of applying from 3 to 5 drops of waterglass on the top wad to secure it to the brass hull" | 18:46 |
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| fenn | "A mixture of caustic soda, quartz sand, and water are prepared in a mixing tank, then fed into a reactor, where steam is introduced. The reaction is | 18:47 |
| fenn | n SiO2 + 2 NaOH → Na2O•nSiO2 + H2O" | 18:47 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I know a lot about sodium silicate, but I'm talking about glass that dissolves | 18:47 |
| fenn | pretty sure it's the same thing | 18:47 |
| ForrestFlanagan | once sodium silicate comes makes glass, it never goes back | 18:47 |
| ForrestFlanagan | or, actually | 18:47 |
| ForrestFlanagan | huh | 18:47 |
| fenn | soda is sodium carbonate right? | 18:48 |
| ForrestFlanagan | it might | 18:48 |
| ForrestFlanagan | and if it does | 18:48 |
| ForrestFlanagan | that means cash for clunkers isn't the end of the line | 18:48 |
| fenn | Solid phase (thermal process) Sodium carbonate and sodium sulfate melt at temperatures far below that of silica. (<900 °C vs >1600 °C) Either is melted, and silica dissolved into the molten material, where it reacts to form sodium silicate. | 18:49 |
| fenn | Na2CO3 + x SiO2 → (Na2O)•(SiO2)x + CO2 | 18:49 |
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| fenn | oh i see | 18:51 |
| fenn | "Sodium silicate solution is used to inexpensively, quickly, and permanently disable automobile engines. Running an engine with about 2 liters of a sodium silicate solution instead of motor oil causes the solution to precipitate, catastrophically damaging the engine's bearings and pistons within a few minutes.[12] In the United States, this procedure was used to comply with requirements of the | 18:51 |
| fenn | Car Allowance Rebate System (CARS) program" | 18:51 |
| ForrestFlanagan | basically it eliminated the rolling stock of automobiles | 18:51 |
| ForrestFlanagan | the idea is it would force everyone to finance and buy new, since old used cars wouldn't be around | 18:52 |
| ForrestFlanagan | most people I know just wouldn't drive if they couldn't get a semi-reliable car for under a grand | 18:53 |
| fenn | i wonder who came up with the acronym CARS | 18:53 |
| ForrestFlanagan | and most people with those cars maintain them using junkyard parts, but CARS killed all the junkyard parts too | 18:54 |
| ForrestFlanagan | dunno, some auto industry lobbyist | 18:54 |
| fenn | but look at all that surplus http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-16/where-worlds-unsold-cars-go-die | 18:55 |
| fenn | "They have run out of space to park all of these brand new unsold cars" | 18:56 |
| fenn | and also there aren't enough batteries being produced yet to either retrofit all of the old cars as electrics or make new electric cars | 19:00 |
| fenn | or hybrids | 19:01 |
| fenn | anyway cars are dumb | 19:01 |
| fenn | we need smart cars that can drive themselves, and less cars overall in the US | 19:01 |
| fenn | cash for clunkers should have only paid out of you bought a self driving car | 19:02 |
| fenn | </rant> | 19:02 |
| kanzure | an elaborate pneumatic tube system for transporting and caring for mice | 19:04 |
| kanzure | it's perfect | 19:04 |
| kanzure | feeling a little brain damaged at the moment | 19:05 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I had an obsession with pneumatic tubes a few years ago | 19:05 |
| fenn | hamster tubes | 19:05 |
| ForrestFlanagan | basically I was thinking of huge packet switched networks based on partially evacuated tubes with periodic atmosphere injection to accelerate either direction | 19:06 |
| fenn | "we could just have smart cars that drive themselves on the tollroads, eliminating the need for human drivers | 19:07 |
| fenn | and then everyone is billed for the self-driving cars that are accumulating tolls | 19:07 |
| ForrestFlanagan | for a theoretical low footprint city with greater than kowloon density | 19:07 |
| fenn | yesss | 19:07 |
| fenn | .title www.google.com/patents/US5950543 | 19:09 |
| yoleaux | Patent US5950543 - Tubular transportation system for transporting passengers/cargos - Google Patents | 19:09 |
| kanzure | i wonder if automatic cryoresuscitation will be possible without human intervention | 19:09 |
| kanzure | cryopreservation at the moment is an extremely manual procedure | 19:09 |
| kanzure | although there seems to be a high human error rate too | 19:09 |
| fenn | cryopreservation at the moment is barely being practiced at all | 19:10 |
| fenn | ~4 procedures performed per year? | 19:10 |
| ForrestFlanagan | there's only like 200 cryopatients at the moment as I understand it | 19:10 |
| kanzure | ForrestFlanagan: recently i had an idea for how to make cryoresuscitation work | 19:10 |
| kanzure | however, i require 3 million hamsters | 19:10 |
| ForrestFlanagan | spill ye beans | 19:10 |
| kanzure | you can probably guess from that alone | 19:11 |
| fenn | his big idea is to breed them for cryopreservation tolerance | 19:11 |
| kanzure | oh come on i wanted to know what crazy things he could think to do with 3 million rodents | 19:11 |
| ForrestFlanagan | haha, okay | 19:11 |
| fenn | give them miniature typewriters and wait until they write up a working protocol? | 19:12 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I was studying a thing a few months ago related to cryo | 19:12 |
| kanzure | and if at a million rodents it doesn't work, then start with just single organ survival and breed that | 19:12 |
| ForrestFlanagan | novel stuff | 19:12 |
| fenn | magnetics or pressure changes? | 19:13 |
| ForrestFlanagan | found this japanese company doing commercial freezer retrofits | 19:13 |
| fenn | ooh ooh i remember this | 19:13 |
| ForrestFlanagan | they were nuts, their technology is basically just throwing out everything that might work | 19:13 |
| ForrestFlanagan | yeah, you might have seen it? | 19:14 |
| ForrestFlanagan | they had big flat 60hz coils | 19:14 |
| ForrestFlanagan | everything is 60hz | 19:14 |
| ForrestFlanagan | they had no electrical engineers is my guess | 19:14 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I'll dig them up | 19:14 |
| fenn | "ABI’s “Cells Alive System” (CAS) vibrates water with magnetic fields, preventing freezing, even at supercool tem | 19:15 |
| fenn | peratures of -10 degrees Celsius (According to the Patent.) When the field is turned off, the water in the food instantly freez | 19:16 |
| fenn | es." | 19:16 |
| ForrestFlanagan | yeah | 19:16 |
| ForrestFlanagan | this thing | 19:16 |
| ForrestFlanagan | http://casfresh.trustpass.alibaba.com/product/114517330-103247594/Cells_Alive_System.html | 19:16 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I dug up a ton of crap and related research on it | 19:16 |
| fenn | hehe "feeble energies" | 19:17 |
| fenn | this reminds me of the carburetor magnet thingy in the 1970's | 19:17 |
| ForrestFlanagan | hahaha | 19:17 |
| ForrestFlanagan | kanzure: you might want to wget all of these, I don't think this directory is supposed to be public http://www.alcor.org/cryonics/ | 19:18 |
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| fenn | i dunno man, that popsicle photo is pretty convincing | 19:18 |
| ForrestFlanagan | but yeah, I see no reason I couldn't do a mini cells alive system with some fans, magnet wire, and an old chest freezer | 19:22 |
| ForrestFlanagan | oh, and they have a 60hz subwoofer too | 19:23 |
| ForrestFlanagan | PUT POWER TO ALL THE THINGS | 19:23 |
| fenn | FEEBLE POWER!!! | 19:24 |
| ForrestFlanagan | this patent reads like something I would have built while messing around as a child | 19:24 |
| ForrestFlanagan | but the results are fantastic | 19:24 |
| * fenn mumbles something about the magnetocaloric effect | 19:24 | |
| ForrestFlanagan | I'd like to play with values and try for better | 19:24 |
| fenn | .wik magnetocaloric effect | 19:25 |
| yoleaux | "Magnetic refrigeration is a cooling technology based on the magnetocaloric effect. This technique can be used to attain extremely low temperatures, as well as the ranges used in common refrigerators." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetocaloric_effect | 19:25 |
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| fenn | the general idea is that spin alignment due to an imposed magnetic field will tie up rotational degrees of freedom, so a substance will have lower heat capacity while in a magnetic field | 19:28 |
| fenn | because it has less degrees of freedom | 19:28 |
| ForrestFlanagan | that's freaking nuts | 19:28 |
| fenn | so for a given energy the temperature should go up when you turn on the magnetic field, and go down when you turn it off | 19:28 |
| fenn | in practice it's like millikelivn tho | 19:29 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I passed that to a friend of mine, he said he helped with a science fair project exploiting the effect | 19:31 |
| ForrestFlanagan | that's saying something because he's a 50's kid | 19:31 |
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| fenn | i thought it was a new field, but i guess that shouldn't be surprising that it's been around since at least the 50's | 19:33 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I worry he may have thought I was talking about something else | 19:38 |
| ForrestFlanagan | He's talked about ammonia fridges before | 19:38 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I think they're a cool idea but I don't want to deal with pure ammonia at high heat and pressure if I can help it | 19:39 |
| fenn | apparently they used magnetic refrigeration to condense helium in the 1930's | 19:39 |
| kanzure | have you seen a scroll compressor | 19:39 |
| ForrestFlanagan | yeah, dual archimedian spirals | 19:40 |
| ForrestFlanagan | gyrating | 19:40 |
| ForrestFlanagan | very efficient | 19:40 |
| kanzure | i want a single-manufacturing-process engine | 19:40 |
| ForrestFlanagan | milling is required, as is making a planar mating surface | 19:42 |
| fenn | he's obsessed with maskless lithography | 19:42 |
| fenn | unfortunately, gases don't behave a micron scales | 19:42 |
| fenn | at* | 19:42 |
| ForrestFlanagan | but what about nano steam? | 19:43 |
| ForrestFlanagan | that works | 19:43 |
| fenn | oh this is interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrocaloric_effect | 19:43 |
| fenn | 12K sounds like not much, but that's huge compared to magnetocaloric effects | 19:44 |
| kanzure | maskless lithography does not require micron-scale features -_- | 19:45 |
| fenn | also you can do many repeated heating/cooling steps with comb electrodes | 19:45 |
| fenn | kanzure are you a 3d printing fanboy | 19:45 |
| kanzure | no | 19:45 |
| fenn | are you sure | 19:45 |
| fenn | how do you intend to take advantage of maskless lithography for making scroll compressors? | 19:46 |
| kanzure | i hate openscad, i hate bre pettis, i don't own a 3d printer, i hate stl, i am pretty sure i am not a 3d printing fanboy | 19:46 |
| kanzure | i was hating bre pettis before it was cool to hate bre pettis | 19:46 |
| fenn | ok well me too, but i would probably consider myself a 3d printing fanboy | 19:46 |
| kanzure | really. | 19:46 |
| kanzure | just because you made a printer does not make you a fanboy | 19:47 |
| fenn | i just really like the idea of pulling a complex shaped part out of a thin vat of liquid | 19:47 |
| ForrestFlanagan | bre pettis has been on my shitlist since pre makerbot | 19:47 |
| ForrestFlanagan | he's a nasty hackerspace owner and a terrible boss | 19:47 |
| fenn | since he absconded with the reprap research foundation's assets | 19:47 |
| ForrestFlanagan | just read how the makerbot employees thrash his leadership on glassdoor | 19:48 |
| fenn | makerbot basically got their start by literally stealing from the community | 19:48 |
| ForrestFlanagan | also if not stl then what, gts? | 19:48 |
| ForrestFlanagan | OBJ? | 19:48 |
| fenn | anyway i think we can all agree that bre pettis did not invent "3d printing" | 19:49 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I wish I had a slicer that supported OBJ | 19:49 |
| fenn | sadly all formats are terrible | 19:49 |
| ForrestFlanagan | the only reason reprap got their start is key patents expired | 19:49 |
| fenn | STEP is at least commonly supported and can represent exact shapes | 19:49 |
| fenn | i happen to like IGES because it's easy to implement and it's an open standard | 19:49 |
| ForrestFlanagan | noted | 19:49 |
| fenn | it's easy to say in hindsight that it was the patents, but i don't remember anyone ever talking about it at the time | 19:51 |
| ForrestFlanagan | a friend of mine wouldn't stop talking about them | 19:51 |
| fenn | it was probably the economic recession that caused people to start tinkering | 19:51 |
| fenn | i'm not sure why adrian bowyer actually started the project | 19:52 |
| fenn | why now and why him at this place and time i mean | 19:52 |
| ForrestFlanagan | he's this engineer guy that normally lives in the ukraine and entertains odd ideas about communes | 19:52 |
| fenn | i was also thinking about self replicating machine tools at the time reprap came out, but maybe that's just selection effects | 19:53 |
| kanzure | heh | 19:53 |
| kanzure | ForrestFlanagan: that describes almost eeryone in here | 19:53 |
| ForrestFlanagan | he's good at a lot of stuff and he taught me some stuff about microcontrollers over email in the 8th grade, I convinced him to move to austin a few years ago | 19:53 |
| ForrestFlanagan | he's moderately.. somethings funny about him | 19:54 |
| kanzure | strangely, that also describes many people in here | 19:54 |
| fenn | yeah sounds familiar | 19:54 |
| kanzure | especially the part about convincing people to move to austin | 19:54 |
| fenn | did i ever live in ukraine? | 19:54 |
| kanzure | probably | 19:54 |
| ForrestFlanagan | hahaha | 19:54 |
| ForrestFlanagan | anyways, he used to post as ant on some reprap forums and stuff | 19:55 |
| fenn | my dream is to hijack a karelian freighter and terrorize the finnish coast | 19:55 |
| fenn | but in a good way | 19:55 |
| ForrestFlanagan | Tony Bondhus | 19:55 |
| ForrestFlanagan | last I checked he had some land, but I don't know how that's going | 19:56 |
| kanzure | i met him 2010-11-06 | 19:56 |
| ForrestFlanagan | wow that was a while back | 19:56 |
| kanzure | tony@conceivia.com | 19:56 |
| ForrestFlanagan | that's him | 19:57 |
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| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Antpower~enwiki | 19:58 |
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| ForrestFlanagan | yeah he's fun like that | 19:59 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I can't go live in a shack with him at the moment though | 19:59 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I've got my own tech to tinker with | 20:00 |
| fenn | new website has too much ranting about "Capitalism" | 20:00 |
| ForrestFlanagan | that's part of the "something off" | 20:01 |
| kanzure | communes suck | 20:04 |
| Taek | as a commune fan: why? | 20:04 |
| kanzure | i was indoctrinated into an internet-lets-go-make-a-commune-in-the-desert cult when i was 15 | 20:05 |
| fenn | you guys didn't actually do anything though | 20:05 |
| Taek | rule 1 of communes: no shitty people. | 20:05 |
| kanzure | well we wrote like 500k lines of code for an mmorpg to recruit people | 20:05 |
| kanzure | we had our own microprocessor architecture | 20:06 |
| kanzure | and a conlang | 20:06 |
| * Adlai mentions that the grand commune social experiment is 67 years (to the day!) underway, and largely failing, with the notable exception of those communes that participate in consumerist society by hosting factories on their soil | 20:06 | |
| fenn | hosting factories? | 20:07 |
| fenn | Adlai: are you saying it's not a commune if you make and sell stuff? | 20:08 |
| ForrestFlanagan | tech commune would be my thing | 20:08 |
| ForrestFlanagan | these isolationist anticonsumer communes suck | 20:09 |
| kanzure | i used to recruit people by arguing with them for 14 hours straight | 20:09 |
| Adlai | no, but it's less of one when the commune only survives through rents from corporations | 20:09 |
| * Adlai is referring to kibbutzim, in case this wasn't clear | 20:09 | |
| kanzure | "only a life of building particle accelerators will be meaningful" | 20:09 |
| kanzure | ... it was a strange cult. | 20:09 |
| ForrestFlanagan | tony participated in a few, including twin oaks | 20:09 |
| Adlai | "Today, farming has been partly supplanted by other economic branches, including industrial plants and high-tech enterprises.[2] Kibbutzim began as utopian communities, a combination of socialism and Zionism. In recent decades, some kibbutzim have been privatized and changes have been made in the communal lifestyle" | 20:09 |
| ForrestFlanagan | they all sucked, mostly because they were consensus based and they always had holdouts, so all the good people just gave up and left | 20:10 |
| Adlai | which is a nice way of saying, "the communes have become cohabitation spaces" | 20:10 |
| fenn | Adlai: news alert, humans are obsolete and have been for 50 years | 20:10 |
| Adlai | where do i sign up for the thiopental? | 20:10 |
| fenn | it's not at all surprising that small scale non-mechanized farming is unprofitable in a global trade network | 20:11 |
| kanzure | cohabitation communes sound like an awful idea | 20:11 |
| kanzure | we would have kicked out anyone that was not as insanely productive as everyone else (and we did a few times) | 20:11 |
| Adlai | arguably kibbutzim are only failing by child-retention metrics, which are worthless to begin with | 20:11 |
| kanzure | (but i mean in the desert, especially) | 20:11 |
| fenn | over what time scale do you measure productivity | 20:12 |
| fenn | it may take years to construct a highly efficient system | 20:13 |
| kanzure | well we mostly just focused on pre-existing subject matter expertise | 20:13 |
| ForrestFlanagan | kanzure this commune sounds like it'd have sucked me in, except deserts suck | 20:13 |
| kanzure | or how to acquire that expertise | 20:13 |
| kanzure | well we were not in a desert | 20:13 |
| kanzure | it was the interwebs | 20:13 |
| fenn | hmm dont you both live in texas | 20:13 |
| * Adlai has yet to find water on the interwebs | 20:13 | |
| Adlai | thus, desert | 20:14 |
| fenn | machine phase | 20:14 |
| fenn | infotrophic biome | 20:14 |
| kanzure | desert was only because that was some cheap land we had found | 20:14 |
| fenn | er, mechome | 20:14 |
| Adlai | how do you abstract "desert" to the informatiosphere? | 20:14 |
| ForrestFlanagan | yeah | 20:14 |
| ForrestFlanagan | you don't live in texas fenn? | 20:14 |
| fenn | i am currently in berkeley | 20:14 |
| ForrestFlanagan | ah | 20:15 |
| fenn | i lived in austin 2008-2009 | 20:15 |
| ForrestFlanagan | fenn: <kanzure> i was indoctrinated into an internet-lets-go-make-a-commune-in-the-desert cult when i was 15 | 20:15 |
| kanzure | productivity never really needed to be measured for some reason; it was quite obvious that everyone was making regular progress. | 20:15 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I thought there was a desert.. | 20:15 |
| kanzure | ForrestFlanagan: the plan was to move to a desert | 20:15 |
| kanzure | and take infrastructure with us | 20:15 |
| kanzure | i think the whole thing collapsed around the time that our glorious 16 year-old leader discovered sex | 20:16 |
| ForrestFlanagan | that'd be very comfortable with structural insulated panel architechture | 20:16 |
| ForrestFlanagan | actual laughing wheezy noise | 20:17 |
| fenn | i like superadobe dome construction | 20:17 |
| ForrestFlanagan | what is that, like shot-crete? | 20:17 |
| kanzure | gotta show the wasps who's boss | 20:17 |
| fenn | compressed earth in woven plastic cloth tubes | 20:18 |
| fenn | but it's basically adobe | 20:18 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I like sips way more | 20:19 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I'm not so into hippie earth bag construction | 20:19 |
| fenn | well, one is portable, one is not | 20:19 |
| fenn | if going for portable i'd do something like the eden project | 20:20 |
| ForrestFlanagan | sips are light enough | 20:20 |
| fenn | yeah, you can transport sips but not an earthbag dome | 20:20 |
| fenn | anyway earth construction is basically free if you have robots do the work | 20:20 |
| ForrestFlanagan | like I could probably build a three story multi family dwelling with enough sip material to fill a shipping container | 20:21 |
| fenn | but how much would it cost | 20:21 |
| ForrestFlanagan | oh, robo earthbag is a neat variation | 20:21 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I could be into that | 20:21 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I've priced it out, not terribly much | 20:21 |
| fenn | they are like $20 for a 4x8 panel? | 20:22 |
| ForrestFlanagan | the shipping from the chinese supplier for a 40ft full container load is less than 2k | 20:22 |
| fenn | or is that something else | 20:22 |
| ForrestFlanagan | and they could be full of MgO, wood, or anodized aluminum skinned panels that just slot together | 20:22 |
| ForrestFlanagan | 150-300 usd per cubic meter from there | 20:23 |
| fenn | i think i missed a few thoughts in that train | 20:23 |
| fenn | anodized aluminum panels are way more than $300/m^3 | 20:24 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I'd spec 10 inch panels for roofing, and then drop down to six inch for exterior walls and floor spans | 20:24 |
| fenn | or do you mean finished interior volume? | 20:24 |
| ForrestFlanagan | 3 inch MgO panels for interior, very fireproof | 20:24 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I'm talking about sandwich panels | 20:25 |
| ForrestFlanagan | they're thick | 20:25 |
| ForrestFlanagan | http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=mgo+sandwich+panel | 20:27 |
| ForrestFlanagan | that's just what I'd use on the interiior, it's cheap | 20:28 |
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| ForrestFlanagan | and the metal skinned stuff is ideal for roofs, because it's light and freaking stiff | 20:28 |
| ForrestFlanagan | 20" unsupported spans are easy with the stuff, I've got books with all the tables and whatnot | 20:29 |
| ForrestFlanagan | 20' I mean | 20:29 |
| kanzure | gene_hacker: sup | 20:30 |
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| fenn | $8/m^2 is pretty good.. are these alibaba prices realistic? | 20:32 |
| kanzure | gene_hacker: what's up | 20:33 |
| fenn | they all seem to be different products | 20:33 |
| ForrestFlanagan | they are, but this is for full container load stuff | 20:33 |
| ForrestFlanagan | well yeah it's a mixed lot, alibaba searches suck | 20:33 |
| ForrestFlanagan | they're all structural insulated panels though | 20:34 |
| ForrestFlanagan | books I have focus on panels skinned with 7/16" OSB | 20:34 |
| ForrestFlanagan | that's the industry standard in the US | 20:34 |
| ForrestFlanagan | MgO is new tech, very fireproof | 20:35 |
| fenn | yeah i hate OSB | 20:35 |
| fenn | MgO is like a dietary supplement :P | 20:35 |
| fenn | does inhaling the dust have health benefits? :P | 20:36 |
| ForrestFlanagan | ha | 20:36 |
| ForrestFlanagan | yeah, easy workers comp claims | 20:37 |
| ForrestFlanagan | mesothelioma | 20:37 |
| ForrestFlanagan | it's not a dusty board, unless you're sawing it | 20:38 |
| fenn | mag-board.com says it's non-toxic even if you breathe the dust | 20:38 |
| ForrestFlanagan | it's actually a lot better than drywall in that respect | 20:38 |
| gene_hacker | so what was I summoned here for? | 20:38 |
| ForrestFlanagan | sure, but particulate matter hazards still apply | 20:38 |
| ForrestFlanagan | you were summoned? | 20:38 |
| fenn | welcome to summoner's rift | 20:39 |
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| Genestealer | gene hacker | 20:40 |
| Genestealer | LOL | 20:40 |
| fenn | so is it like pizza night in austin? are you guys going to meet up? | 20:40 |
| gene_hacker | I'm not in austin | 20:41 |
| gene_hacker | is kanzure in austin? | 20:41 |
| fenn | huh? ok nevermind | 20:42 |
| ForrestFlanagan | he's got to go do some NYC stuff, but he normally is in austin | 20:42 |
| kanzure | gene_hacker: you were summoned because ForrestFlanagan is doing some drone stuff | 20:44 |
| kanzure | and reprap reasons i guess | 20:44 |
| ForrestFlanagan | oh neato | 20:44 |
| kanzure | wait why does ForrestFlanagan know about me going to nyc | 20:44 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I don't know? | 20:45 |
| ForrestFlanagan | You must have told me | 20:45 |
| fenn | because of inverse stalkmatrix time travel technology | 20:45 |
| gene_hacker | also if you are in austin, you could probably go to borg fest if you really really hurry | 20:45 |
| gene_hacker | err wait | 20:45 |
| kanzure | .g borg fest austin | 20:47 |
| yoleaux | http://borgfest.com/ | 20:47 |
| gene_hacker | so what's this about reprap drones | 20:47 |
| gene_hacker | whoops | 20:47 |
| gene_hacker | ended at 10 pm | 20:47 |
| kanzure | oh look a celebration in my honor | 20:47 |
| kanzure | http://borgfest.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Invent-300x168.png | 20:48 |
| ForrestFlanagan | yeah you were talking about it earlier kanzure | 20:48 |
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| ForrestFlanagan | we were having a bitcoin rant | 20:48 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I have been playing with a sensor that I want to turn into a robotics thing | 20:48 |
| ForrestFlanagan | and it'd be a great time of flight 360 laser range system for a small drone | 20:49 |
| ForrestFlanagan | because it's so light | 20:49 |
| fenn | what's the sensor called? | 20:49 |
| ForrestFlanagan | but it's a challenge because I have no idea how to raise the power of the infrared pulses | 20:50 |
| ForrestFlanagan | it has the craziest timing | 20:50 |
| ForrestFlanagan | it's the VL6180 | 20:51 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I'm convinced it's one of the most underrated chips out now | 20:51 |
| ForrestFlanagan | nobody uses it right, they just use all the default register values for phone gesture recognition and ultra low power output | 20:51 |
| gene_hacker | range 0 - 10 cm | 20:52 |
| ForrestFlanagan | but it's a high speed time of flight rangefinder that speaks bot I2C and SPI | 20:52 |
| ForrestFlanagan | you reading it wrong, gotta hack it | 20:52 |
| ForrestFlanagan | the range is based on a few things | 20:53 |
| gene_hacker | the IR emitter is built onto it | 20:53 |
| ForrestFlanagan | the relative brightness of the pulse emitted, which is affected by ambient light and target reflectance properties | 20:53 |
| ForrestFlanagan | also a register value | 20:54 |
| ForrestFlanagan | it should work way farther out, like meters | 20:54 |
| ForrestFlanagan | but that IR emitter is too weak | 20:54 |
| gene_hacker | you don't get direct access to IR driver | 20:54 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I know but if I can set up a PLL or something to match it's timing on the subnanosecond level to a larger IR driver, then it's getting somewhere | 20:56 |
| fenn | wow i didnt know cellphones had ToF rangefinders in them | 20:59 |
| ForrestFlanagan | now they do | 20:59 |
| ForrestFlanagan | they used to just have shitty light level to digital converters | 20:59 |
| ForrestFlanagan | this part is the cutting edge | 21:00 |
| gene_hacker | holy crap | 21:00 |
| gene_hacker | that thing has a laser in it | 21:00 |
| fenn | so what's the depth resolution in mm? | 21:00 |
| Sheena1234 | fenn: was it you i was talking to about magnesium, perchance? | 21:00 |
| fenn | Sheena1234: probably | 21:01 |
| fenn | Sheena1234: i tell pretty much everyone they need to take supplemental magnesium | 21:01 |
| Sheena1234 | fenn: cool. can you remind me some data/dosage details if you have them handy? i'm taking it daily, and wanting to maximize results | 21:01 |
| Sheena1234 | "to tolerance"? | 21:02 |
| gene_hacker | so how fast can you turn the laser on and off? | 21:02 |
| ForrestFlanagan | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NHKga3V6xo | 21:02 |
| ForrestFlanagan | explains the stmicro part pretty well | 21:02 |
| fenn | Sheena1234: 100 to 200mg a day is probably enough (that would be 600-1300mg of magnesium citrate) | 21:03 |
| fenn | Sheena1234: note that most things (including citrate) don't dissolve well; make sure that it's dissolved | 21:03 |
| ForrestFlanagan | the test at 2:43 is pretty damning to other technologies | 21:03 |
| Genestealer | gene hacker are you a biologist? | 21:03 |
| Sheena1234 | like, remove from capsule nad dissolve prior to swallowing? | 21:03 |
| gene_hacker | it has one of these inside: | 21:03 |
| gene_hacker | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical-cavity_surface-emitting_laser | 21:03 |
| Genestealer | or do you do molecular or biochemical work?? | 21:03 |
| gene_hacker | @Genestealer I don't know what I am any more | 21:04 |
| Genestealer | i mean what is your profession?> | 21:04 |
| fenn | Sheena1234: yes. if it's not dissolved you can't absorb it | 21:04 |
| Sheena1234 | looks like im at about 300mg a day of citrate, so should be good to double that and if tolerated, work on increasing.. optimal dosing frequency thoughts? | 21:04 |
| Genestealer | do you have a PhD? | 21:04 |
| * fenn shrugs | 21:05 | |
| gene_hacker | @Genestealer I don't do biochemical work, but I do molecular work? | 21:05 |
| Sheena1234 | fenn: stomach acid is insuffucient solvent? | 21:05 |
| gene_hacker | doing phd | 21:05 |
| fenn | Sheena1234: not really. and many people have insufficient stomach acid | 21:05 |
| fenn | you can add magnesium oxide to lemon juice, that works for sure | 21:06 |
| gene_hacker | that sensor is going to be very difficult to modify, but if you can turn the laser on and off really fast and detect it with another laser you could do free space optical communication | 21:06 |
| kanzure | ah i thought gene_hacker was doing just masters | 21:06 |
| Genestealer | hey awesome im a grad student too | 21:06 |
| gene_hacker | ha ha no | 21:06 |
| Genestealer | what's your thesis on? | 21:07 |
| Sheena1234 | fenn: thanks :) | 21:07 |
| ForrestFlanagan | holy crap | 21:07 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I'm so into FSO communication | 21:08 |
| fenn | Sheena1234: i have had magnesium citrate pills emptied into a glass of water not dissolve after several weeks | 21:08 |
| gene_hacker | using AI to invent new photoresponsive materials based around metal organic frameworks containing photoisomerizing moieties | 21:08 |
| ForrestFlanagan | thanks for the tip on the VCSEL, I didn't know | 21:08 |
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| gene_hacker | well if you can do FSO with your little laser thing, you might be able to make some ghetto smart dust | 21:09 |
| Sheena1234 | fenn: wow. thats good to know. i cant imagine it's very yummy after being dissolved though..?? | 21:09 |
| fenn | meh. it's almost impossible to detect if added to concord grape juice | 21:09 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I'm interested in the photoresistive materials thing | 21:10 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I tried to do FSO a while back modifying IRDA dongles, I ended up having a crappy time trying to reject ambient light/concentrate light from a long distance | 21:11 |
| gene_hacker | shit if you could find some way to steer the beam that doesn't take crazy amounts of power you could probably make FSO communication nodes like Vinge was crazy about | 21:11 |
| ForrestFlanagan | *photoresponsive | 21:11 |
| fenn | ForrestFlanagan: you never found ronja.twibright.com ? | 21:11 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I have, but I didn't like their bandwidth limitations | 21:12 |
| gene_hacker | photoresponsive mainly meaning expanding or contracting when light is shined on it | 21:12 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I tried doing something with PIN diodes but I couldn't ever get it to work outside of a dark box | 21:12 |
| ForrestFlanagan | oh nevermind gene | 21:12 |
| gene_hacker | or changing pore size, stiffness, auxeticity, catalytic properties or whatever | 21:13 |
| ForrestFlanagan | sounds like a good way to control a microfluidic valve network with just a scanning laser though | 21:13 |
| fenn | for steering the beam http://www.phased-array.com/ | 21:15 |
| ForrestFlanagan | really it sounds like a whole host of cheap chem chip control technologies that could be driven with a laser scanner | 21:15 |
| gene_hacker | ha, we're thinking we could define a microfluidic device by shining a laser on a sheet of this stuff | 21:16 |
| fenn | it's worth noting that phased arrays are passive elements | 21:16 |
| fenn | that is, if they're not created by synthesizing waveforms | 21:17 |
| gene_hacker | you probably need a lot more scan area than a phased array can offer | 21:17 |
| gene_hacker | http://core0.staticworld.net/images/idge/imported/article/ctw/2003/03/24/multifunctionalmote_large-100407896-orig.gif | 21:17 |
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| fenn | cute "passive transmitter" modulated retroreflector | 21:19 |
| gene_hacker | vinge was crazy about this sort of stuff | 21:19 |
| fenn | yeah i know | 21:19 |
| fenn | mind-reading etc | 21:19 |
| gene_hacker | because you could drop these over a city and have a high bandwidth communication network in a day | 21:19 |
| gene_hacker | nah I was thinking more of the stuff that was in Rainbows End not a deepness in the sky | 21:20 |
| fenn | you could drop them over a room and have realtime GSR, ECG, EEG etc for all the people in the room | 21:20 |
| fenn | as well as voice and optical data of course | 21:21 |
| gene_hacker | well the thing in rainbows end was that you can use them to accurately locate stuff | 21:21 |
| fenn | you can do that with bokode | 21:21 |
| fenn | actually i'm not sure if that works with retroreflectors | 21:22 |
| gene_hacker | because hey you can do time of flight between each of the nodes | 21:22 |
| gene_hacker | and with that you do augmented reality and a whole bunch of robot control problems are solved | 21:22 |
| gene_hacker | the advantage of this over bokode is that this gets you internet | 21:23 |
| fenn | oh good point.. time of flight is magic | 21:23 |
| fenn | so you get triangulation and trilateration at the same time | 21:24 |
| gene_hacker | http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/8.01/forward.html | 21:25 |
| fenn | "Moore's law holds. For another 20 years" well that sort of happened | 21:26 |
| fenn | we got more transistors anyway | 21:26 |
| gene_hacker | no localizers though | 21:30 |
| fenn | wifi fingerprinting has become default | 21:31 |
| fenn | that's what "location services" is | 21:32 |
| fenn | AR just hasn't become popular enough to need better localization resolution | 21:32 |
| ParahSailin | yeah, magnesium is weird | 21:32 |
| ParahSailin | MDs still consider its supplementation "holistic" | 21:33 |
| gene_hacker | AR isn't really possible because we don't have great localization resolution | 21:33 |
| fenn | hmm not a bad idea: "Design so as to postpone irrevocable decisions until the last moment" | 21:34 |
| kanzure | minimize the number of irrevocable deadly decisions | 21:34 |
| fenn | ParahSailin: nutritionists are pretty much in agreement that everyone is deficient | 21:35 |
| fenn | i think MDs are mostly just anti-supplement in general | 21:35 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=7a8ee53d Bryan Bishop: irrevocable decisions >> | 21:35 |
| fenn | heh | 21:36 |
| ParahSailin | yeah i started mg supplementation a while ago, but stopped when i felt i didnt need it | 21:36 |
| ParahSailin | wife is having all kinds of cramps, and i am pushing mg on her, but she is afraid to eat without doctor permission | 21:36 |
| ParahSailin | apparently MDs only believe in two mammalian cellular electrolytes | 21:37 |
| fenn | "kalzium ist alles!" | 21:37 |
| ParahSailin | hm 3 is probably more accurate representation of their position | 21:37 |
| ParahSailin | the weird thing is that they recognize the use of mg to arrest labor | 21:39 |
| fenn | and after heart attacks | 21:39 |
| fenn | but not before heart attacks for some reason | 21:40 |
| ForrestFlanagan | can someone throw me the key science on this supplement? | 21:40 |
| ForrestFlanagan | are there good papers? | 21:40 |
| ParahSailin | Slowincow et al "The White Element" | 21:41 |
| ForrestFlanagan | should I stir my tea with a thermite starter or something? | 21:41 |
| fenn | hum.. i liked mildred seelig's book, but that's kinda overkill | 21:42 |
| ForrestFlanagan | google is failing me | 21:43 |
| ForrestFlanagan | ncbi is failing me | 21:43 |
| ForrestFlanagan | why does everyone like mg so much | 21:44 |
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| fenn | personally i was completely useless depressed tired pained piece of crap until i started taking magnesium | 21:46 |
| kanzure | and now? | 21:46 |
| fenn | well, none of that | 21:46 |
| fenn | i do still procrastinate too much, but mostly because of the nice weather here | 21:47 |
| fenn | i climbed a (small) mountain a couple days ago | 21:48 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly_Peak_%28Berkeley_Hills%29 | 21:48 |
| ParahSailin | ever felt really thirsty after doing like one of those churrascaria buffets? | 21:48 |
| gene_hacker | shit you're in SF fenn? | 21:49 |
| ParahSailin | like so thirsty from all the salt that drinking a ton of water afterward wouldnt quench it | 21:49 |
| gene_hacker | I was there a couple weeks ago | 21:50 |
| fenn | speaking of which, where's heath | 21:50 |
| fenn | .wik churrascaria | 21:51 |
| yoleaux | "A churrascaria (Portuguese pronunciation: [ʃuʁɐʃkɐˈɾi.ɐ]) is a place where meat is cooked in churrasco style, which translates roughly from the Portuguese for 'barbecue'." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churrascaria | 21:51 |
| ForrestFlanagan | that sounds awesome | 21:54 |
| ForrestFlanagan | okay, so magnesium citrate or what? | 21:55 |
| fenn | the view from up there is amazing and really hard to photograph.. this comes close to what it looks like http://www.borrowlenses.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Q1A9799-Edit-Edit.jpg | 21:56 |
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| ForrestFlanagan | I know some depressed people on proton pump inhibitors, I bet that sweeps out a lot of magnesium | 21:58 |
| ForrestFlanagan | er, sweeps through, more like | 21:58 |
| fenn | well it prevents you from absorbing magnesium oxide from vitamins | 21:58 |
| fenn | because of the reduced stomach acid | 21:58 |
| ForrestFlanagan | really, MgO? | 21:59 |
| fenn | yeah funny isn't it | 21:59 |
| fenn | surrounded by piles of the stuff and dying of deficiency | 21:59 |
| ForrestFlanagan | well shoot, I hope those pills are really really cheap | 21:59 |
| ForrestFlanagan | how many mg/kg is a good dose? | 21:59 |
| fenn | 1-3 mg/kg | 22:00 |
| ForrestFlanagan | 50-150 for me then | 22:01 |
| ForrestFlanagan | gah, ebay is saturated with supplement people | 22:06 |
| ForrestFlanagan | I can't find it as a reagent at a reasonable price | 22:06 |
| ForrestFlanagan | gtg, cooking and stuff | 22:07 |
| fenn | oh the book was "the magnesium factor" by mildred seelig, and was mostly about cardiovascular health | 22:07 |
| fenn | ciao | 22:07 |
| -!- ForrestFlanagan is now known as ForrestFlanaganA | 22:07 | |
| -!- ForrestFlanaganA is now known as ForrestAFK | 22:08 | |
| fenn | don't buy supplements on ebay | 22:08 |
| ForrestAFK | I was trying to buy reagents | 22:08 |
| ForrestAFK | I wanted to make my own | 22:08 |
| ForrestAFK | make chalky cookies or something, I don't know | 22:08 |
| fenn | buy NOW brand MgO on amazon | 22:09 |
| fenn | http://www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Magnesium-Oxide-Powder/dp/B0010B8CBW | 22:09 |
| ForrestAFK | I probably wouldn't notice the difference If I pressed them with dextrose and root beer flavoring to make shitty necco wafers | 22:09 |
| ForrestAFK | OK I buy those | 22:10 |
| ForrestAFK | ttyl | 22:10 |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 22:13 | |
| -!- genehacker [~chatzilla@c-98-232-239-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:36 | |
| -!- ForrestAFK is now known as ForrestFlanagan | 22:54 | |
| ForrestFlanagan | genehacker, maybe if I coupled some optics to the TOF chip I could up the sensitivity? | 22:56 |
| ForrestFlanagan | there? | 22:59 |
| -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 23:00 | |
| -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:00 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:08 | |
| -!- zadock [~zadock@muscalu.tuiasi.ro] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:43 | |
| --- Log closed Thu Apr 23 00:00:30 2015 | ||
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