| --- Log opened Mon May 04 00:00:48 2015 | ||
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| gene_hacker | for some reason breeding brain parasites doesn't seem like such a good idea... | 01:50 |
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| kanzure | gene_hacker: it may be faster than making custom chemical nootropics | 05:39 |
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| fenn | cordyceps worked for me | 06:55 |
| kanzure | that seems to have a good end-of-stage presentation (physically recoverable) | 06:58 |
| kanzure | which is useful for reuse and selection | 06:58 |
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| kanzure | now your next task is to figure out how to rfid tag individual ant drones | 06:58 |
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| kanzure | "well obviously the solution is to breed ants until they are large enough to permanently carry rfid tags, duh" | 07:21 |
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| kanzure | "If the Bitcoin system could really have never changed at all, as I'd hope for in that ideal world where Bitcoin was completely isolated from political corruption, then it would have died forever in 2010 when a flaw was discovered in Bitcoin's design that allowed anyone to spend any coin. This behavior was fixed by a soft-fork change, but if we were to adopt a (insanely) principled view we might rightfully conclude that this soft-fork ... | 10:06 |
| kanzure | ... "fix" was a form of coercive theft (to use some internet-libertarian lingo) from all those who understood the rules and preferred the infinite supply of coins. Fortunately, it seems that no such people existed (though-- again, being very principled, we shouldn't require them to speak up in order to respect their right to not have the system change out from under them) ... and practically speaking, no system operated that way would be ... | 10:06 |
| kanzure | ... usable owing to the current impossibility of engineering something so perfect." | 10:06 |
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| MrHindsight | did Bitcoin ever publish the algorithm used to adjust the value of the coins based on the change of difficulty of generating them? | 12:15 |
| MrHindsight | if they were legit I would have figured that someone in China or Taiwan would have developed ASIC's for under $1m and just cleaned up | 12:17 |
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| kanzure | MrHindsight: i suspect you are misinformed about this topic? there is nothing in the source code that controls the market price (value) of bitcoin. | 12:17 |
| MrHindsight | was that the rumor then? I thought that as more were generated that the value would change | 12:18 |
| MrHindsight | so what prevents a group from funding a dedicated hardware generator to just pump out bitcoins 100-1000x faster than anyone else? | 12:20 |
| kanzure | MrHindsight: many things, but that is an extremely important question | 12:21 |
| kanzure | i don't know which rumor you are referring to, so i'm gonna ignore that for the moment | 12:21 |
| kanzure | the way that bitcoin prevents "fake bitcoin" is through a mechanism known as proof-of-work | 12:22 |
| kanzure | here is a summary of proof-of-work and why it works https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8697567 | 12:22 |
| kanzure | basically the idea is to use sha256 to hash data until the resulting hash has a certain number of zeroes on the front of the string. this requires real, physical work. then there are additional rules to verify whether that work "merits" bitcoin currency rewarded to whatever public key was associated with whatever broadcast of the results of the hashing or mining work. | 12:24 |
| kanzure | the required number of zeros is strongly related to the concept of "bitcoin mining difficulty"... the more zeroes, the more difficult. more or less. | 12:25 |
| kanzure | every 2 weeks (ish) (actually, "every 2016 blocks" since bitcoin doesn't know what the current time is), the difficulty peg is adjusted either up or down, based on whether blocks have recently been mined faster than once per 10 minutes or slower than once per 10 minutes. this difficulty adjustment is how the network agrees on how much proof-of-work-style work has to be used to mine a valid block for the blockchain. | 12:26 |
| kanzure | MrHindsight: hopefully this answers your question, but let me know if i can clarify anything in particular | 12:27 |
| kanzure | when i say "hash data until the resulting hash has a certain number of zeroes on the front of the string", what i really mean is "pick a random number and then combine it with some other data, and then hash that value" of course. the random number is the important part. | 12:28 |
| kanzure | the market price of bitcoin (like.. price charts) is entirely based on asks/bids and what people are willing to pay. | 12:30 |
| kanzure | and what people are willing to sell at | 12:30 |
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| kanzure | besides the random number, the other data includes "the hash of the previous block in the blockchain" | 12:32 |
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| kanzure | .wik flibanserin | 12:49 |
| yoleaux | "Flibanserin (code name BIMT-17; proposed trade name Girosa) is a drug being studied as a non-hormonal treatment for pre-menopausal women with hypoactive sexual desire disorder (HSDD). Development by Boehringer Ingelheim was halted in October 2010 following a negative report by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flibanserin | 12:49 |
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| nmz787_i | huh, this is interesting even though I know little about micropython, or it's downsides | 12:58 |
| nmz787_i | https://github.com/micropython/micropython/pull/1211 | 12:58 |
| nmz787_i | .title | 12:58 |
| yoleaux | esp8266: Add esp.espconn class by atalax · Pull Request #1211 · micropython/micropython · GitHub | 12:58 |
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| CaptHindsight | " the difficulty peg is adjusted either up or down, based on whether blocks have recently been mined faster than once per 10 minutes or slower than once per 10 minutes. this difficulty adjustment is how the network agrees on how much proof-of-work-style work has to be used to mine a valid block for the blockchain." | 14:23 |
| CaptHindsight | I never saw the algorithm used for this | 14:24 |
| CaptHindsight | I never really looked for it either | 14:24 |
| Taek | in brief: every 2016 blocks it looks at how long it took to mine the last 2016 blocks. If it took 1/2 as long as expected, it'll double the difficulty. 2x => halve the difficulty. It won't change the difficulty by more than 4x though. | 14:29 |
| CaptHindsight | so someone could just build a dedicated machine to mine 10-100x faster and only get a 4x penalty | 14:32 |
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| Adlai | the only mining hardware worth using these days, was originally such hardware... the network grew organically as such hardware was brought online | 14:34 |
| Adlai | http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-ever.png | 14:34 |
| Adlai | you can see how there were several periods of extreme growth, but the difficulty adjustment kept up | 14:35 |
| Taek | CaptHindsight: what do you mean by 10-100x faster? such a machine would be very large and expensive, as it's competing with the cumulative speed of all machines doing bitcoin mining | 14:35 |
| ParahSailin | quantum oracle | 14:36 |
| CaptHindsight | according to the chart there had been more than a 4x penalty | 14:36 |
| CaptHindsight | well I haven't had a discussion about bitcoin is couple of year, I never looked saw any of the math behind it | 14:37 |
| CaptHindsight | and conversations always get lost in semantics | 14:38 |
| CaptHindsight | I just figured that some group in Taiwan would just fab some ASIC's and just stay one step ahead of everyone... | 14:38 |
| CaptHindsight | and not the bitcoin ASIC's that everyone made a fuss over a couple of years ago | 14:39 |
| Adlai | a bunch of groups have fabbed ASICs, some mine with their own hardware, others sell it to avoid the forex risk, in the end pretty much everybody who wants to mine has an ASIC these days | 14:39 |
| CaptHindsight | did the ASIC vendors end up making the most $ just like the pick and shovel sellers in the goldrush? | 14:42 |
| * Adlai hasn't gone over their books, but the answer seems to be positive | 14:42 | |
| Adlai | although BFL has had some, ah, trouble | 14:43 |
| jrayhawk_ | http://www.wired.com/2013/04/bitcoin-mining-rigs/ | 14:47 |
| jrayhawk_ | “The plastic packaging on the top of the chip just couldn’t exhaust the heat fast enough, so it basically melted the package.” | 14:47 |
| jrayhawk_ | best fab ever | 14:47 |
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| jrayhawk_ | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/09/29/feds-butterfly-labs-mined-bitcoins-on-customers-boxes-before-shipping/ isn't "Defendants used their customers’ machines to mine Bitcoins for themselves before shipping the now-used machines to their customers" called "QA testing" | 15:07 |
| jrayhawk_ | i guess that's lawyers for you | 15:08 |
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| archels | "Hormones contain artificial estrogens that can upset your hormonal balance" | 16:31 |
| archels | I think I've hit upon the mother lode nutrition info site | 16:31 |
| cluckj | not my hormones | 16:34 |
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| catern | not all hormons | 17:27 |
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| kanzure | CaptHindsight: the only way to mine faster is to change the difficulty, really. but the network rejects blocks that were mined at too-low difficulty. | 22:34 |
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| --- Log closed Tue May 05 00:00:48 2015 | ||
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