| --- Log opened Fri May 08 00:00:05 2015 | ||
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| danielpbarron | found this channel here -> http://heybryan.org/ | 07:50 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | hello | 07:56 |
| danielpbarron | hello | 07:56 |
| danielpbarron | I used to be into transhumanism | 07:57 |
| kanzure | welcome to the resistance.. everyone else sucks. | 07:58 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/declaration | 07:58 |
| danielpbarron | "everyone else sucks" TM | 07:58 |
| danielpbarron | how do transhumanists feel about The Bible? | 08:04 |
| kanzure | most transhumanists have never heard of the bible | 08:04 |
| danielpbarron | then I highly recommend this site to you all -> http://atruechurch.info/ | 08:05 |
| kanzure | yawn | 08:06 |
| kanzure | you are reading bitcoin mailing list emails | 08:07 |
| danielpbarron | yep | 08:07 |
| danielpbarron | well someone pasted a link to them in #bitcoin-assets | 08:07 |
| kanzure | asciilifeform used to be transhumanist but then he had a stroke and became lame | 08:07 |
| danielpbarron | like.. a real stroke? | 08:08 |
| kanzure | he is brain damaged | 08:08 |
| danielpbarron | well who isn't? | 08:08 |
| kanzure | paperbot | 08:08 |
| danielpbarron | paperbot has no brain | 08:08 |
| kanzure | at least he has a heart | 08:09 |
| * danielpbarron doesn't know what paperbot is | 08:09 | |
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| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot | 08:09 |
| paperbot | ConnectionError: HTTPConnectionPool(host='localhost', port=1969): Max retries exceeded with url: /web (Caused by <class 'socket.error'>: [Errno 111] Connection refused) (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 375, in send) | 08:09 |
| kanzure | roijfaidfaja | 08:09 |
| kanzure | wtf | 08:09 |
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| kanzure | so much for that | 08:09 |
| danielpbarron | i guess he's brain damaged too | 08:09 |
| kanzure | brains are dumb anyway | 08:09 |
| kanzure | someone should fix that | 08:10 |
| danielpbarron | well I didn't have a stroke, but I too was once a transhumanist sympathizer that is now no longer one | 08:11 |
| danielpbarron | for me it had more to do with Jesus though | 08:12 |
| ParahSailin | kanzure: what are android ad rates like these days? | 08:14 |
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| kanzure | ParahSailin: haven't been looking. my guess: terrible. you get better results with promotional offers and shit. | 08:30 |
| kanzure | wait, i mean the rates are good, but the results are going to suck anyway | 08:33 |
| * Adlai wants a reflective API for neural metaprogramming | 08:42 | |
| Adlai | most of my daily calories are burned while balancing a bicycle. the balancing is performed by two hands, separately. sometimes one hand does something else, such as holding a dog leash, and the other hand is able to balance just fine | 08:43 |
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| Adlai | danielpbarron: my feelings about the bible are summarized as "which one?" | 08:44 |
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| fenn | off topic | 08:47 |
| danielpbarron | wtf is "off topic" | 08:47 |
| fenn | discussion of religion | 08:47 |
| danielpbarron | that's a stupid way to run a channel | 08:48 |
| kanzure | most people are fucking awful at discussing religion | 08:48 |
| danielpbarron | transhumanism isn't a religion? | 08:49 |
| fenn | no | 08:49 |
| * Adlai recommends fenn read Breaking the Spell | 08:49 | |
| Adlai | arguably, religion is the first transhumanist phenomenon | 08:49 |
| fenn | singularitarianism may be a religion, but meh | 08:49 |
| fenn | transhumanism is about technology and actually doing stuff | 08:50 |
| * Adlai doesn't think transhumanism is cohesive enough to be a religion yet | 08:50 | |
| fenn | the "wait and see" prognostication commonly seen in mass media is not transhumanism | 08:50 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+oo kanzure fenn] by ChanServ | 08:51 | |
| @kanzure | i'm going to be busy but feel free to mute him or whatever | 08:51 |
| * fenn shrugs | 08:51 | |
| @fenn | was going for a bike ride | 08:51 |
| @kanzure | i said or whatever | 08:51 |
| @kanzure | bike ride counts as whatever | 08:51 |
| danielpbarron | oh how b-a has spoiled me. everyone else sucks. | 08:52 |
| @fenn | go back there then | 08:52 |
| @kanzure | most of the others in there are better trolls than this | 08:52 |
| Adlai | fenn: make sure to monitor the balancing process | 08:52 |
| Adlai | each hand can do it independently | 08:53 |
| Adlai | they can also do it together, better | 08:53 |
| @fenn | you dont need a hand to balance on most bikes | 08:53 |
| @fenn | my bike pulls to the left pretty hard though so i need one hand to balance | 08:53 |
| @kanzure | nobody believes in your unicycle gang | 08:53 |
| Adlai | body-balancing is quite different from hand-on-handlebars-balancing | 08:53 |
| danielpbarron | fenn> go back there then << grow a spine, coward | 08:53 |
| danielpbarron | i didn't leave; can be in two channels at once | 08:54 |
| danielpbarron | defend your stupid ideas | 08:54 |
| danielpbarron | or would you rather just slap backs with yes men | 08:54 |
| @kanzure | danielpbarron: really we have no reason to suspect that you are any better than average at doing transhumanist engineering projects | 08:54 |
| Adlai | arguably none of us are "in" here, we are just conducting shared telepathy | 08:54 |
| @kanzure | danielpbarron: so far you've linked to somethig about jesus and complained about religion | 08:54 |
| danielpbarron | is that already covered in your log or something? | 08:56 |
| danielpbarron | i'm rehashing a previously well covered topic? | 08:56 |
| @kanzure | you're not rehashing at all | 08:56 |
| danielpbarron | right. so what's the problem, beyond your not having enough confidence in your idea to defend it against a skeptic | 08:57 |
| @kanzure | maybe you just have low expectations :-) | 08:57 |
| @kanzure | what exactly are you skeptical about | 08:57 |
| @kanzure | you should state it explicitly | 08:57 |
| @kanzure | with words | 08:57 |
| danielpbarron | i'm skeptical about any idea that sounds like it could only happen with government funding | 08:58 |
| danielpbarron | like sending junk into space | 08:58 |
| @kanzure | are you aware of projects that happen without government funding? | 08:58 |
| danielpbarron | i'm skeptical about ideas that relate to evading death through technology | 08:58 |
| @kanzure | e.g. are you lacking evidence of their existence | 08:58 |
| danielpbarron | tell me about the project that put junk in outer space without government funding | 08:59 |
| @kanzure | if someone gets an artificial heart who had already died at least once, is that evading death or does that not count for some reason? | 08:59 |
| danielpbarron | that doesn't count because that person didn't die | 08:59 |
| @kanzure | oh so it only counts if they can't be resuscitated with technology? | 09:00 |
| @kanzure | just trying to understand where you're coming from | 09:00 |
| danielpbarron | i'm coming from the belief that if you die, you go to hell. the fact that someone isn't in hell is evidence that they haven't died | 09:01 |
| @kanzure | when you say someone, what do you mean | 09:01 |
| @kanzure | do you mean their physical body | 09:01 |
| @kanzure | or what | 09:01 |
| danielpbarron | for the most part | 09:02 |
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| danielpbarron | i'm also skeptical that humans are smart enough to pull this stuff off | 09:03 |
| @kanzure | what other signs of death do you disagree with | 09:03 |
| Adlai | isn't the idea to surpass humanity, and then pull the stuff off? | 09:04 |
| @kanzure | Adlai: too vague | 09:04 |
| Adlai | or are you skeptical that humans can pull off transhumanizing | 09:04 |
| @kanzure | also vague | 09:04 |
| danielpbarron | yes that | 09:04 |
| danielpbarron | you cannot "transhumanize" | 09:05 |
| Adlai | ok, what do you think "transhumanizing" means? | 09:05 |
| danielpbarron | it means whatever you just meant it to mean | 09:05 |
| @kanzure | ..... | 09:05 |
| danielpbarron | "achieve a state of being able to do X" | 09:05 |
| danielpbarron | i think humans are just getting stupider, not smarter | 09:05 |
| @kanzure | so what? | 09:05 |
| @kanzure | why should you care if they are stupi? | 09:05 |
| @kanzure | +stupid | 09:05 |
| danielpbarron | that means they cannot upload their mind into the cloud or whatever they think is possible | 09:06 |
| danielpbarron | they means they cannnot cheat death | 09:06 |
| danielpbarron | you have to believe in your creator, or you go to hell. You can't work your way out of that one | 09:06 |
| Adlai | "nuanced transhumanism includes the matter of exit route" | 09:06 |
| @kanzure | wtf does going to hell have to do with anything | 09:06 |
| @kanzure | why wouldn't an upload go to hell? | 09:07 |
| @kanzure | this shit makes no sense | 09:07 |
| danielpbarron | because the upload isn't the person | 09:08 |
| @kanzure | i think you are conflating "whether something is technologically true" and "i am worried about experiencing some future state x that might have implications on whether i should believe others when they say they have built technology" | 09:08 |
| @kanzure | who cares if they are the person or not? wtf x2 | 09:09 |
| danielpbarron | the person dies regardless of any upload | 09:09 |
| @kanzure | oh, i don't care about that | 09:09 |
| danielpbarron | ok so the person goes to hell, and your upload is just a script | 09:09 |
| @kanzure | i'll take the script yeah | 09:09 |
| danielpbarron | the script isn't aware of itself | 09:09 |
| danielpbarron | or anything | 09:09 |
| chris_99 | why's that | 09:09 |
| Adlai | is the person? | 09:09 |
| @kanzure | neither am i | 09:09 |
| danielpbarron | yes you are | 09:09 |
| @kanzure | haha | 09:09 |
| Adlai | looks like we hit the sweet spot | 09:09 |
| Adlai | what is "aware"? | 09:09 |
| danielpbarron | i am aware of myself, maybe you all are scripts; i suppose that's possible | 09:10 |
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| Adlai | is your keyboard aware of your fingers? | 09:10 |
| danielpbarron | no | 09:10 |
| Adlai | is it aware of which keys they've pressed? | 09:10 |
| danielpbarron | and for that matter, my cat isn't really aware either | 09:10 |
| @kanzure | danielpbarron: for the record i also don't believe in consciousness, i think there's very little evidence for it | 09:10 |
| danielpbarron | my cat also cannot go to hell | 09:10 |
| @kanzure | no evidence, even | 09:10 |
| chris_99 | how do you know you can/cannot go to 'hell' | 09:11 |
| danielpbarron | because God said so | 09:11 |
| chris_99 | oh | 09:11 |
| chris_99 | ok | 09:11 |
| danielpbarron | it may surprise you to know that I do not believe in free will | 09:12 |
| @kanzure | sounds like you agree though that a script is possible | 09:12 |
| @kanzure | transhumanism is entirely about that script, nothing else | 09:12 |
| danielpbarron | yeah, like a markov chain or something | 09:12 |
| @kanzure | no | 09:12 |
| @kanzure | you really think a markov chain is a useful implementation? | 09:13 |
| @kanzure | for this? | 09:13 |
| danielpbarron | a script that is identical to me? no. not possible, at least not possible for man to come up with | 09:13 |
| danielpbarron | and if God made it, i guess it would be a man and not a script | 09:13 |
| @kanzure | i never said identical | 09:14 |
| @kanzure | your neurons are not identical even within 100ms intervals | 09:14 |
| danielpbarron | so then how could you ever upload yourself? | 09:14 |
| @kanzure | well, first, i don't care about selfhood, i'm willing to settle for far less | 09:15 |
| @kanzure | second, there are very direct methods of scanning brain matter with microscopes for example | 09:15 |
| danielpbarron | how very humble of you :D | 09:15 |
| danielpbarron | a scan of brain matter will not let you replicate the person | 09:15 |
| @kanzure | 24 MB photo http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/nematodeuploadproject/PAG759L.png | 09:15 |
| @kanzure | i don't care about people, i care about brain matter | 09:15 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/nematodeuploadproject/reconstruction.gif | 09:17 |
| @kanzure | shitty image. hm. | 09:17 |
| @kanzure | here is a fun presentation (video is okay too) http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/markram-2006/ | 09:18 |
| danielpbarron | i care about people, not brain matter | 09:18 |
| @kanzure | yeah i mean ultimately the substrate wont matter, but right now brain matter is all we gots | 09:19 |
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| danielpbarron | to what end? eventually the sun burns out and the galaxy burns out and so it goes | 09:21 |
| danielpbarron | what happens to me when my ideas are merged with everyone elses? It's the same as me dying | 09:22 |
| danielpbarron | dieing*? | 09:22 |
| @kanzure | dunno why merging but w/e | 09:22 |
| @kanzure | as for the star burning out, there are others | 09:22 |
| @kanzure | galaxies also die and get recreated | 09:23 |
| danielpbarron | others that are the same age and will burn out at same tme | 09:23 |
| @kanzure | star matter turns into different star matter | 09:23 |
| @kanzure | there are a bunch of options | 09:23 |
| @kanzure | also this is why you see some galaxies eating other galaxies | 09:24 |
| danielpbarron | i should say, i don't necessarily believe that last bit / playing devil's advocate | 09:25 |
| @kanzure | you mean.... astronomy? | 09:25 |
| danielpbarron | i have no evidence to suggest that stars die, or that the galaxy is even a thing | 09:25 |
| namespace | ... | 09:25 |
| namespace | Quit wasting Kanzures time. | 09:25 |
| danielpbarron | i have no evidence that the other stars are like the earth's sun | 09:25 |
| @kanzure | star death has a specific meaning | 09:25 |
| @kanzure | <3 namespace | 09:25 |
| @kanzure | danielpbarron: well we definitely receive photons from other star systems | 09:26 |
| danielpbarron | no we do not | 09:26 |
| @kanzure | what generates them? | 09:26 |
| danielpbarron | there are photons, sure | 09:26 |
| danielpbarron | God generated them | 09:26 |
| @kanzure | but not through stars? | 09:26 |
| danielpbarron | He said that the stars are lights | 09:26 |
| danielpbarron | and on that much we can agree | 09:27 |
| @kanzure | that does not answer my question | 09:27 |
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| danielpbarron | He didn't say if there are balls of gas doing nuclear reactions to create that light | 09:27 |
| @kanzure | do you believe our spectrometers are wrong? | 09:27 |
| danielpbarron | what do they say? | 09:27 |
| @kanzure | (factually inoperative) | 09:28 |
| @kanzure | wavelength measurements | 09:28 |
| danielpbarron | your interpretation of those measurments may be wrong | 09:28 |
| @kanzure | well, actually, i'll say some of this is fair because of the difficulty of looking inside of stars | 09:28 |
| @kanzure | but we'll get to that soon | 09:28 |
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| @kanzure | anyway, as a professional strawman i've always known it was my purpose in life to burn alive | 09:32 |
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| danielpbarron | that is a very real possibility | 09:34 |
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| @kanzure | .title http://www.nature.com/nmeth/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nmeth.3361.html | 10:46 |
| yoleaux | High-resolution whole-brain staining for electron microscopic circuit reconstruction : Nature Methods : Nature Publishing Group | 10:46 |
| @kanzure | "Currently only electron microscopy provides the resolution necessary to reconstruct neuronal circuits completely and with single-synapse resolution. Because almost all behaviors rely on neural computations widely distributed throughout the brain, a reconstruction of brain-wide circuits—and, ultimately, the entire brain—is highly desirable. However, these reconstructions require the undivided brain to be prepared for electron ... | 10:46 |
| @kanzure | ... microscopic observation. Here we describe a preparation, BROPA (brain-wide reduced-osmium staining with pyrogallol-mediated amplification), that results in the preservation and staining of ultrastructural details throughout the brain at a resolution necessary for tracing neuronal processes and identifying synaptic contacts between them. Using serial block-face electron microscopy (SBEM), we tested human annotator ability to follow ... | 10:46 |
| @kanzure | ... neural ‘wires’ reliably and over long distances as well as the ability to detect synaptic contacts. Our results suggest that the BROPA method can produce a preparation suitable for the reconstruction of neural circuits spanning an entire mouse brain." | 10:46 |
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| @kanzure | .title http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0122283 | 13:07 |
| yoleaux | PLOS ONE: Rational Design of Antibiotic Treatment Plans: A Treatment Strategy for Managing Evolution and Reversing Resistance | 13:07 |
| @kanzure | " By using growth rates as a measure of fitness, we computed the probability of each amino acid substitution in each β-lactam treatment using two different models named the Correlated Probability Model (CPM) and the Equal Probability Model (EPM). We then performed an exhaustive search through the 15 treatments for substitution paths leading from each of the 16 genotypes back to the wild type TEM-1. We identified optimized treatment ... | 13:08 |
| @kanzure | ... paths that returned the highest probabilities of selecting for reversions of amino acid substitutions and returning TEM to the wild type state. For the CPM model, the optimized probabilities ranged between 0.6 and 1.0. For the EPM model, the optimized probabilities ranged between 0.38 and 1.0. For cyclical CPM treatment plans in which the starting and ending genotype was the wild type, the probabilities were between 0.62 and 0.7. ... | 13:08 |
| @kanzure | ... Overall this study shows that there is promise for reversing the evolution of resistance through antibiotic treatment plans." | 13:08 |
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| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by kanzure | 13:24 | |
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| kanzure | maaku: welcome back | 14:07 |
| maaku | thanks | 14:08 |
| maaku | computer snafus | 14:08 |
| kanzure | ah | 14:08 |
| maaku | figured i needed to be back on irc for all the btc block size bullshit though | 14:08 |
| kanzure | did you see gavinandresen posting "i will not read any arguments or contrary opinions unless they are in the form of a pull request" statement? | 14:09 |
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| maaku | kanzure: yes, and I purposefully did not mention that I have some working code for the proposal i just made | 14:16 |
| maaku | he is free to make himself irrelevant. he's doing a great job of it so far | 14:17 |
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| @fenn | galantamine looks like a good substitute for the nootropic effects of nicotine without most of the negative side effects of nicotine | 14:41 |
| @fenn | it's pretty expensive now but i don't see any reason why it should be... it's just the extract of daffodil bulbs | 14:42 |
| @fenn | another source, lycoris radiata looks pretty cool too, and has nice mythology to go with it | 14:42 |
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| @fenn | who wouldn't want to eat the extract of red spider lily that grows in hell | 14:45 |
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| n_bentha | hey | 18:42 |
| n_bentha | paperbot http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896841114000055 | 18:42 |
| n_bentha | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896841114000055 | 18:42 |
| n_bentha | !seen paperbot | 18:42 |
| n_bentha | .seen paperbot | 18:42 |
| yoleaux | I saw paperbot 8 May 2015 15:09Z in ##hplusroadmap: <paperbot> ConnectionError: HTTPConnectionPool(host='localhost', port=1969): Max retries exceeded with url: /web (Caused by <class 'socket.error'>: [Errno 111] Connection refused) (file "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 375, in send) | 18:42 |
| n_bentha | paperbot, come back | 18:43 |
| n_bentha | kanzure...where's paperbot? | 18:44 |
| kanzure | broken | 18:49 |
| kanzure | fix the bug and i'll redeploy | 18:49 |
| n_bentha | bug? | 18:49 |
| n_bentha | i can't fix the bug. i'm a med student T_T | 18:50 |
| n_bentha | where r the software engineers? | 18:50 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot | 18:50 |
| kanzure | medicine doesn't involve software yet? | 18:50 |
| kanzure | this isn't the 1960s | 18:50 |
| n_bentha | it involves a bunch of clicking on yes / no buttons following prompts | 18:58 |
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| n_bentha | my vpn isn't working on my laptop | 19:07 |
| n_bentha | my vpn works on my desktop it drives me NUTZ | 19:07 |
| n_bentha | anyway, i'll look it up at home on my desktop | 19:07 |
| n_bentha | thx kanzure. hope paperbot gets fixed sometime soon | 19:07 |
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| namespace | kanzure: Well as it stands programming is too finicky and annoyingly implemented for 'normal people' to learn it. | 19:25 |
| namespace | It's a huge time sink. | 19:25 |
| namespace | What this means is you have biology labs where almost nobody knows programming. | 19:26 |
| namespace | And stuff like that. | 19:26 |
| dingo | i always encourage young people who enjoy computers to major in something like biochemistry or mechanical engineering or something *non*-computery, and they can excel in their field with just the most basic programming skills | 19:56 |
| dingo | sets them apart from their colleuges | 19:56 |
| * namespace would need to major in anything before he could do that ;) | 19:57 | |
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| maaku | dingo: that's good advice | 22:09 |
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| dingo | thanks. It's hard to excel in IT, hell I've programmed over 20 languages in the past 15 years, written my fair share of good code, but i'm still around the "above-average" teir. | 22:22 |
| dingo | If i worked in some other career, and used my computer skills, however, I could be the most invaluable person in any team | 22:22 |
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