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| JayDugger | kanzure, how did you encounter the stone tools article in Nature? | 04:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | i would rather not say | 04:19 |
| kanzure | quite embarrassing method | 04:19 |
| JayDugger | Fair enough. I hoped to learn a method of finding leads to such neat repositories as the 3d model of the dig site and africanfossils.org, but I'll just have to gnash my teeth instead. | 04:21 |
| JayDugger | And guess you found it by getting a hard copy of the magazine in the mail. | 04:21 |
| kanzure | nope | 04:23 |
| kanzure | an even worse method | 04:23 |
| chris_99 | HN? | 04:23 |
| kanzure | far worse | 04:23 |
| chris_99 | heh | 04:23 |
| JayDugger | <gnash> | 04:24 |
| kanzure | https://blog.cloudflare.com/logjam-the-latest-tls-vulnerability-explained/ | 04:28 |
| kanzure | some interesting solutions to bus routing optimization https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9577476 (like "pay the would-be passengers to take a taxi instead") | 04:29 |
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| kanzure | eudoxia: when are you traveling? | 05:44 |
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| kanzure | i bet all the autonomous self-driving car stuff will cause the price of lidar sensors to drop significantly | 07:07 |
| eudoxia | would you... bet on a bitcoin prediction market | 07:08 |
| narwh4l | cheap lidar would be great | 07:15 |
| narwh4l | also better to create a btc contract than use a prediction market | 07:15 |
| narwh4l | safer at least | 07:15 |
| narwh4l | and of course it also begs the question: how much is significantly? | 07:16 |
| chris_99 | i got a spinning laser distance meter from one of those robot vacuum cleaners , although it's debatable if it's lidar as it uses parallax | 07:17 |
| narwh4l | so a contract that computes the average price of lidar off of a set of vendors and checks to see if it drops x% by some date | 07:17 |
| narwh4l | but yeah a consumer grade drone with lidar could probably do some neat stuff | 07:18 |
| kanzure | wont necessarily drop on the same vendors | 07:25 |
| kanzure | maybe just something like "lowest price on digikey" hehe | 07:25 |
| kanzure | there's no way that the price per unit would stay obscenely high if every single autonomous vehicle has one... | 07:25 |
| JayDugger | What price stayed fairly constant as capability improved? Something like an ever-greater (appropriate unit of performance) per $1000? | 07:27 |
| kanzure | iphone price | 07:27 |
| JayDugger | (Numbers for arguing that: http://aaplinvestors.net/stats/iphone/pricing/) | 07:29 |
| JayDugger | Highest price on digikey/element14 might correct for sales and loss leaders. | 07:30 |
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| kanzure | http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2010/03/18/atlas-event-display-decoded | 07:58 |
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| kanzure | "Real-time marketplaces for bandwidth were one early suggested application for Agoric software, a field described by Mark Miller and Eric Drexler in 1988. Mark has been a researcher at Google for a while, though he's now working on other things." | 08:55 |
| archels | "I believe we have now discovered the key function of neocortex" | 09:12 |
| archels | that's it guys. we can all go home. thank you for your contributions | 09:13 |
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| kanzure | archels: go on | 09:15 |
| kanzure | "GDF11 Increases with Age and Inhibits Skeletal Muscle Regeneration" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413115002223 | 09:24 |
| kanzure | ("young blood causes broken aged bone to heal faster") | 09:24 |
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| kanzure | http://en.spaceengine.org/ "a free space simulation program that lets you explore the universe in three dimensions, from planet Earth to the most distant galaxies. Areas of the known universe are represented using actual astronomical data, while regions uncharted by astronomy are generated procedurally." | 09:36 |
| nmz787_i | does it include warp-speed? | 09:40 |
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| JayDugger | Only in the Russian-language version. | 09:46 |
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| archels | kanzure: you want more sarcasm? | 09:56 |
| nmz787_i | anyone in here heading to Microscopy & Microanalysis 2015? (M&M 2015) ? | 10:02 |
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| kanzure | archels: well, i want more hilarious tidbits from the source that you were mocking. what else did he believe? | 10:25 |
| nmz787_i | http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2015/05/electron-microscopes-close-imaging-individual-atoms?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebook | 10:39 |
| nmz787_i | "This composite image of the protein β-galactosidase shows the progression of cryo-EM’s ability to resolve a protein’s features from mere blobs (left) a few years ago to the ultrafine 0.22-nanometer resolution today (right)." | 10:40 |
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| nmz787_i | "Subramaniam and his colleagues used some 40,000 separate images to piece together the final shape of their molecule. They report online today in Science that these refinements allowed them to produce a cryo-EM image of β-galactosidase at a resolution of 0.22 nm, not quite sharp enough to see individual atoms, but clear enough to see water molecules that bind to the protein in spots critical to the function of the molecule." | 10:55 |
| nmz787_i | "for x-ray crystallography to work, researchers must produce millions of identical copies of a protein and then coax them to align in exactly the same orientation as they solidify into a crystal. But many proteins resist falling in line, making it impossible to determine their x-ray structure. NMR spectroscopy doesn’t require crystals, but it works only on small proteins. Cryo-EM represents the best of both worlds: It can work with massive protein | 10:56 |
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| nmz787_i | " but it doesn’t require crystals." | 11:02 |
| nmz787_i | just realized pidgin wasn't splitting long messages | 11:04 |
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| nmz787_i | http://www.sciencemag.org/content/suppl/2015/05/06/science.aab1576.DC1/aab1576s1.mp4 | 11:07 |
| nmz787_i | http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/2.2_A_resolution_cryo-EM_structure_of_-galactosidase_in_complex_with_a_cell-permeant_inhibitor_supplement.pdf | 11:08 |
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| delinquentme | what is the paul gram essay talking about 10x programmers | 12:33 |
| delinquentme | In a low-tech society you don't see much variation in productivity. If you have a tribe of nomads collecting sticks for a fire, how much more productive is the best stick gatherer going to be than the worst? A factor of two? Whereas when you hand people a complex tool like a computer, the variation in what they can do with it is enormous. | 12:34 |
| delinquentme | http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html | 12:35 |
| abetusk | Is anyone who hangs out here in the Boston area? | 12:41 |
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| kanzure | http://cs.stanford.edu/people/karpathy/convnetjs/ "ConvNetJS is a Javascript library for training Deep Learning models (mainly Neural Networks) entirely in your browser. Open a tab and you're training. No software requirements, no compilers, no installations, no GPUs, no sweat." | 13:19 |
| kanzure | weird. | 13:19 |
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| archels | "If you want to answer a question about the human mind (or publish a paper in Cognition) you formulate some hypotheses, bring an appropriate number of people into the laboratory, and have them carry out a task that distinguishes between those hypotheses." | 15:36 |
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| archels | "People “hack” their own perceptual systems to make them more useful to cognition." | 15:44 |
| archels | note scarequotes | 15:45 |
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| kanzure | archels: hilarious | 15:53 |
| jrayhawk | delinquentme: a good tracker can be ten times as effective at acquiring meat | 15:54 |
| kanzure | clearly i need to throw together a 12 week class called "dr. doom's 12 week hellschool on appropriate and angry experimental design" | 15:54 |
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| delinquentme | jrayhawk, meaning? | 16:02 |
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| jrayhawk | your conception of paleoanthropological skill and specialization seems inadequate | 16:06 |
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| jrayhawk | (you have chosen to compare skilled labor to menial labour; i hope it is for lack of imagination) | 16:08 |
| jrayhawk | (the alternative explanations are worse) | 16:08 |
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| delinquentme | jrayhawk, its an extrapolation ... and a meaningful one, within the context of increasingly complex tools. | 16:20 |
| delinquentme | jrayhawk, im not sure where your comments fit in other than pointing out the obvious but then seemingly missing the point ? | 16:20 |
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| kanzure | .title http://journals.aps.org/pra/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevA.47.2205 | 17:59 |
| yoleaux | Phys. Rev. A 47, 2205 (1993) - Stability analysis for an optical bistable dye system | 17:59 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.chronox.de/jent/doc/CPU-Jitter-NPTRNG.html | 18:03 |
| yoleaux | CPU Time Jitter Based Non-Physical True Random Number Generator | 18:03 |
| kanzure | "A number of the operating system’s non-physical true random number generators use block devices, such as hard disks as entropy source. The heart of the entropy lies in the timing variances when accessing such disks which depend on the spin angle of the disk or the location of the read heads at the time of the access request. The more and more often used Solid State Disks (SSDs) advertise themselves as block devices to the operating ... | 18:05 |
| kanzure | ... system but yet lack the physical phenomenon that is expected to deliver entropy. The implication is that the SSD block devices cannot be used as entropy source either, although they are partially still treated as entropy source by the standard operating system’s random number generators." | 18:05 |
| kanzure | nah that doesn't sound dangerous at all | 18:05 |
| kanzure | 16:56 < nsh> H<HxentracH>H So it turns out that the surface of the moon has space for several hundred petabytes of information encoded at a one-millimeter resolution that could be read from practically-sized terrestrial instruments. | 18:11 |
| kanzure | 16:56 < nsh> H<HxentracH>H And laser-printing on the moon should require less than a watt of power. | 18:11 |
| * nsh is still skeptical | 18:12 | |
| nsh | there are threads in alt.laser on the subject, apparently | 18:13 |
| nsh | well, on the difficulty of even reading reflected laser light from the moon, modulo the artificial retroreflector | 18:13 |
| kanzure | nsh: the real trick is to store data in droplets of water in fog | 18:13 |
| nsh | is it? | 18:13 |
| kanzure | no | 18:14 |
| nsh | phew | 18:14 |
| kanzure | pew pew pew | 18:14 |
| * nsh smiles | 18:14 | |
| kanzure | xentrac is such a meanie butthead and he never shows up in here anymore | 18:14 |
| Adlai | kanzure: there was not enough discussion of "Exhalation" here after you linked it | 18:15 |
| * Adlai was reminded of that by your "store data in droplets" comment | 18:16 | |
| kanzure | that sounds like a ted chiang thing | 18:16 |
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| Adlai | yes, http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/exhalation/ | 18:16 |
| kanzure | everything i learned about science fiction i learned from orionsarm.com or from cribbing notes from you guys | 18:18 |
| kanzure | Adlai: you can fix that by discussing things, you know | 18:21 |
| Adlai | right now, discussion comes second fiddle to rereading, although that might yield some discussion soon | 18:22 |
| Adlai | naturally the scene i'm looking forward to most is the self-dissection | 18:22 |
| kanzure | "my heart? take it. i've got five of them." | 18:24 |
| kanzure | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkTUc4e0ACA | 18:26 |
| kanzure | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKAeBvyI_Tc | 18:27 |
| kanzure | eh close enough | 18:27 |
| Adlai | sadly such stories leave me with little thought for discussion beyond "how can entropy be reversed?" | 18:36 |
| kanzure | why should it be? | 18:37 |
| kanzure | Adlai: http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-topic/45cd35531fb53 | 18:37 |
| kanzure | .title | 18:38 |
| yoleaux | Orion's Arm - Encyclopedia Galactica - Negentropy Alliance | 18:38 |
| Adlai | lol, "Metapsychology: Cautious; preference for reversible actions" | 18:38 |
| Adlai | "how can entropy be reversed?" is the our-world version of "how can we move air back into the reservoir" | 18:39 |
| Adlai | the Aha! moment when reading Exhalation is that "air" parallels not oxygen, or carbon, or glucose - but entropy | 18:39 |
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| Adlai | well now i'm stuck in the orion's arm rabbithole for the forseeable (~10 millenia?) future. thank you kanzure | 18:46 |
| kanzure | no problem, and don't send me the bill | 18:47 |
| Adlai | this is like an encyclopedia-length Requiem for Homo Sapiens | 18:48 |
| kanzure | have you read that? | 18:48 |
| Adlai | .wik A Requiem for Homo Sapiens | 18:48 |
| yoleaux | "A Requiem for Homo Sapiens is a trilogy of science fiction novels written by David Zindell that is made up of The Broken God (1992), The Wild (1995), and War in Heaven (1998). This trilogy is a sequel to the standalone novel called Neverness (1988)." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Requiem_for_Homo_Sapiens | 18:48 |
| Adlai | yes | 18:48 |
| kanzure | did you also read neverness? | 18:48 |
| Adlai | yes, kinda silly calling it a trilogy. it's just one tetralogy (quadrilogy?) that wasn't published all at once | 18:49 |
| kanzure | did you read those after i mentioned them? | 18:49 |
| Adlai | maybe, how many years ago did you mention them? :P | 18:49 |
| kanzure | well you only met me 2015-02-17 | 18:50 |
| * Adlai read them in high school | 18:50 | |
| Adlai | admittedly, not that long ago | 18:50 |
| Adlai | but not as a conscious result of your mention | 18:50 |
| kanzure | cool | 18:50 |
| kanzure | well you're in the right place | 18:51 |
| kanzure | this is the unofficial fan club of david zindell and the official fan club of eugen leitl | 18:51 |
| Adlai | i've not read leitl, but herrigel was quite good | 18:52 |
| kanzure | eleitl is an hplusroadmap user who has been around on the internet since the beginning of time, not scifi author | 18:52 |
| kanzure | he threw together the mind uploading research group in the 90s, uploaded some worm brains, etc | 18:52 |
| @fenn | http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2015/05/doubts-cast-rejuvenating-protein GDF11 <- weird, i was interviewed once by the article author jocelyn kaiser | 18:53 |
| kanzure | you're thinking of jocelyn zuckerman | 18:53 |
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| Adlai | to use the exhalation analogy - "uploaded some worm brains" seems rather like "engraved the connectivity graph of a person's air tubules" | 18:54 |
| kanzure | what's wrong with air tubules? | 18:54 |
| Adlai | it seems increasingly obvious, from my comfortable armchair deep within the sidelines, that much interesting information lurks outside the neural connectivity graph | 18:54 |
| kanzure | sure, like gene expression stuff | 18:55 |
| Adlai | for an even more contrived analogy: you don't get that much information about the internet from a graph of fiber and rj45s | 18:55 |
| kanzure | so what | 18:55 |
| Adlai | the interesting information about consciousness (in general, the state of a brain) seems to lurk outside of the information that is collected by the "brain upload" projects that i'm aware of | 18:57 |
| kanzure | for whatever it's worth we do have detailed investigations into individual neuron type electrophysiology profiles | 18:57 |
| kanzure | ah okay so you believe in consciousness.. yeah, i don't. i don't care. | 18:57 |
| Adlai | "which one?" | 18:57 |
| kanzure | i don't even care if consciousness is real and that i'm not grabbing it. couldn't care less. | 18:57 |
| Adlai | i'll know whether i believe in god once you define it more precisely | 18:58 |
| Adlai | thus the parenthetical - "state of a brain" | 18:58 |
| Adlai | there is some use in knowing the connectivity graph of the computers that make up the internet; there's even more use added by knowing the latency of each router; but that doesn't get you anywhere close to understanding what all those signals are signalling | 18:59 |
| kanzure | i don't know if i need to understand what they are signalling | 18:59 |
| Adlai | this conversation is missing an "in order to" | 19:00 |
| Adlai | are we trying to build synthetic worms? synthetic programmers? robots that feel emotion? gods? | 19:00 |
| @fenn | Adlai: you think information is stored in firing patterns? | 19:00 |
| kanzure | well, sensory data is certainly not immediately methylated into neuronal dna | 19:01 |
| kanzure | and auditory and visual cortex matter is definitely doing signal processing or signal transformation stuff | 19:02 |
| Adlai | yes, and firing patterns are a symptom of the chemical gradients within and between neurons | 19:02 |
| @fenn | then isn't the information stored in the "chemical gradients" between neurons (whatever that is) | 19:02 |
| Adlai | different kinds of information can be stored in different ways | 19:03 |
| @fenn | the internet mostly stores data as magnetic domains on hard disks and voltages in ram chips | 19:04 |
| @fenn | mapping the "internet connectome" won't get you any of that data | 19:04 |
| @fenn | but neurons generate higher synaptic density in response to mutual firing (hebbian learning) | 19:05 |
| @fenn | so the connectome actually does store information about past events | 19:05 |
| kanzure | and synapse growth cone stuff | 19:05 |
| kanzure | and synaptic strengthening and exploration/exploitation | 19:06 |
| kanzure | remote axon targetting, too | 19:06 |
| @fenn | i thought that was developmental | 19:06 |
| kanzure | .wik axon guidance | 19:06 |
| yoleaux | "Axon guidance (also called axon pathfinding) is a subfield of neural development concerning the process by which neurons send out axons to reach the correct targets. Axons often follow very precise paths in the nervous system, and how they manage to find their way so accurately is being researched." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axon_guidance | 19:06 |
| kanzure | hmm. | 19:06 |
| kanzure | uh, ambiguous | 19:08 |
| @fenn | i think there is growth in response to general activity in the area, but that's more like adaptation to stresses or exercise | 19:10 |
| @fenn | (i could be totally wrong about this) | 19:10 |
| @fenn | "many other classes of extracellular molecules are used by growth cones to navigate properly: NGF, N-CAM, ... Neurotransmitters and modulators like GABA" | 19:12 |
| @fenn | so maybe inhibiting a certain area with GABA actually prevents new growth in that area | 19:13 |
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| kanzure | i think Adlai died | 19:34 |
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| * Adlai | 19:36 | |
| Adlai | the trouble with interesting conversations is that i spend most of them looking up terms on wikipedia, then looking up other terms, etc | 19:36 |
| kanzure | why is that trouble | 19:37 |
| Adlai | slows/kills conversation | 19:38 |
| kanzure | irc is asynchronous | 19:38 |
| kanzure | .. ish. | 19:38 |
| Adlai | you're the one that pronounced death after half an hour of silence :P | 19:39 |
| * Adlai was also reading orion's arm nonsense | 19:39 | |
| kanzure | i got bored | 19:40 |
| kanzure | (someone ended a phone call and lots of attention got freed up) | 19:41 |
| Adlai | why have the lobsters not sponsored their own translobsterism movement? | 19:42 |
| kanzure | it's hard for them because of the extremely low dexterity | 19:56 |
| kanzure | .wik bencode | 19:57 |
| yoleaux | "Bencode (pronounced like B encode) is the encoding used by the peer-to-peer file sharing system BitTorrent for storing and transmitting loosely structured data." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bencode | 19:57 |
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| kanzure | .title https://www.quantamagazine.org/20150521-ocean-viruses/ | 20:22 |
| yoleaux | Ocean Virus Populations Mapped for First Time | Quanta Magazine | 20:22 |
| kanzure | "Out of the 5,476 populations they identified, only 39 were previously known to science." | 20:22 |
| kanzure | "“It’s a smaller number than I expected,” Sullivan said. Based on smaller studies, some scientists had speculated that there might be 50,000 species of ocean viruses and billions of viral genes. But the Tara Oceans survey suggests that’s not the case. “It is what it is,” Sullivan said." | 20:22 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.sciencemag.org/content/348/6237/1261498 | 20:23 |
| yoleaux | Patterns and ecological drivers of ocean viral communities | 20:23 |
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| kanzure | 20:21 <+xentrac> nsh: you can compensate for the atmosphere | 20:50 |
| kanzure | 20:22 <+xentrac> focusing a laser to 1mm over that distance requires a phased array of phase-locked lasers | 20:50 |
| kanzure | 20:23 <+xentrac> dispersion is not a problem because lasers are monochromatic anyway | 20:50 |
| kanzure | vv20:23 <+xentrac> the idea isn't to physically shift the dust but to melt it | 20:50 |
| kanzure | 20:24 <+xentrac> getting a 1mm Airy spot at 384 megameters requires about a 50-kilometer baseline | 20:51 |
| @fenn | or you could just put a satellite around the moon... | 20:54 |
| @fenn | it could orbit at 100 meters | 20:54 |
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| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by lobsters everywhere, banned by the Federal Death Administration (5 times) | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | http://diyhpl.us/wiki | "ray kurzweil is a pessimist" - george church | 21:36 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] [Wed May 20 12:46:25 2015] | 21:36 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 21:36 | |
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