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| eleitl | gwern indeed turned out disappointing | 02:20 |
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| eleitl | Is #lesswrong worth looking at, or is it just the same sterile circlejerk like their web forums? | 02:25 |
| namespace | eleitl: Not worth looking at. | 02:28 |
| namespace | eleitl: I say this as an op there. | 02:28 |
| namespace | Though I should amend. | 02:35 |
| namespace | It's not a sterile circlejerk. | 02:35 |
| namespace | It's a cesspool of noise. | 02:35 |
| namespace | Which is much worse. | 02:35 |
| eleitl | Hmm. | 02:37 |
| eleitl | is it #lesswrong or ##lesswrong ? | 02:38 |
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| eleitl | Nevermind, I found it. | 02:42 |
| namespace | You won't see anything particularly interesting. | 02:43 |
| namespace | It's not the sort of thing where you can go look because it's a trainwreck. | 02:43 |
| namespace | So much as the sort of thing where nothing ever happens because it's boring and noisy. | 02:43 |
| eleitl | I'm interested in seeing failures as well. Successes are boring. | 02:44 |
| namespace | Heh. | 02:45 |
| eleitl | I've become interested in studying collapses some 15 years ago. | 02:47 |
| eleitl | Failures in general, and how to avoid them. | 02:47 |
| eleitl | This whole transhumanism thing is in jeopardy, but few know and/or care. | 02:48 |
| Betawolf | That seems like an over-broad topic. If you stick close to your examples, you get untransferrable advice (don't cock up a plane design this way) and if you generalise you get the vauge waffle you always hear (plan for error; fail gracefully) | 02:49 |
| eleitl | Oh, you're talking designs. I'm looking at individual cultures and movements. | 02:49 |
| namespace | eleitl: I tried to fix it, don't bother observing I can tell you exactly what's wrong if you want. | 02:50 |
| eleitl | E.g. technological society collapse would affect all technological projects. | 02:50 |
| eleitl | What's your diagnosis, namespace? | 02:50 |
| namespace | eleitl: Problem one: It's on IRC, IRC is a low latency medium that means you get lots of filler and noise. It should be structured as a meetup format where you go into a chatroom like once a week. | 02:51 |
| namespace | eleitl: Problem two: It's on IRC. The average person reads at 200-300wpm. A baseline competent typist types at 40wpm. | 02:52 |
| eleitl | IRC is one aspect of the lesswrong community. Are the other parts working better, in your opinion? | 02:52 |
| Betawolf | There were plans for a mailing list. Did that happen? | 02:53 |
| namespace | The entire medium is swamped if seven and a half people talk. | 02:53 |
| namespace | Betawolf: Not yet. | 02:53 |
| namespace | I need to do that. >_> | 02:53 |
| namespace | eleitl: I'd say the rest of it is *dead*. | 02:53 |
| eleitl | Which reminds me, I need to setup Mailman 3. | 02:53 |
| namespace | eleitl: EY basically ran the show, and he packed up and left. | 02:53 |
| eleitl | So bad? | 02:53 |
| eleitl | What is EY doing now? | 02:54 |
| namespace | Um. | 02:54 |
| namespace | I honestly don't know. | 02:54 |
| eleitl | Whoring for SI? | 02:54 |
| Betawolf | There were some vague hints at the end of HPMoR. | 02:54 |
| namespace | AI risk stuff with MIRI, he started up a little private board for discussing AI risk. | 02:54 |
| namespace | Honestly. | 02:54 |
| namespace | I think he decided to 'get serious'. | 02:54 |
| eleitl | Oh, right, I think there was some common blogging with Uehiro guys. | 02:55 |
| eleitl | Hanson, Bostrom & Co. | 02:56 |
| namespace | eleitl: Problem 3. No enforcement of topic. | 03:03 |
| namespace | People basically treat it as a casual shoot-the-shit channel and complain if you ask them to stop. | 03:03 |
| namespace | So that's what it is. | 03:03 |
| namespace | eleitl: What you see right now with the *fucking irrelevant* history discussion is pretty much par for the course. | 03:10 |
| namespace | Low info, not really on topic, etc. | 03:11 |
| eleitl | IRC in a nutshell, with some exceptions. | 03:11 |
| eleitl | Do we have people here who believe that the Singularity is still on track? 1993 Vinge "I'll be surprised if this event occurs before 2005 or after 2030 | 03:24 |
| eleitl | Kurzweil assumes 2045, most others 2040. | 03:25 |
| eleitl | Meanwhile, we have other predictions having a better track http://espas.eu/orbis/sites/default/files/generated/document/en/MSSI-ResearchPaper-4_Turner_2014.pdf | 03:26 |
| Urchin[emacs] | also, it's dubious just how transhumanist #lw is | 03:28 |
| eleitl | Yeah, I'm talking about ##hplusroadmap here. Though it also not the haven of classical transhumanists. | 03:29 |
| eleitl | Because classical transhumanists excel at one thing: talking. | 03:29 |
| Urchin[emacs] | it's mostly biohackers here | 03:30 |
| eleitl | Makes sense, it's the easiest route to do something interesting. | 03:30 |
| eleitl | MNT is purely computational, or prohibitively expensive. | 03:31 |
| eleitl | AI ditto. | 03:31 |
| Urchin[emacs] | mnt? | 03:32 |
| Urchin[emacs] | oh, right | 03:32 |
| eleitl | Perry Metzger was doing it, but it's been a while since I talked to him. | 03:33 |
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| eleitl | Anyone here looked into 3d printing of high explosives? | 04:01 |
| jrayhawk_ | Not personally, but I think some of the crazier people in the local rocketry club here in Portland were poking at that. OFTC #psas | 04:12 |
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| eleitl | Thanks, jrayhawk. | 04:21 |
| eleitl | kanzure mentioned you're hosting some projects. Is that a colo, or elsewhere? | 04:22 |
| jrayhawk | Various colos, yeah. | 04:22 |
| eleitl | US? | 04:22 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, everything I do is in Portland. | 04:22 |
| eleitl | Locked cages, or other physical security? | 04:23 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah. | 04:23 |
| eleitl | Good to know. | 04:23 |
| jrayhawk | http://www.tatadocomo.com/business/Download/Facility-Specification-Sheet-Portland-USA.pdf This is where I do most of my hosting; stuff I can claim to be non-profit often winds up at the local University, which has card access but not locked cages. | 04:26 |
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| eudoxia | a box of this trubrain thing arrived at the office and everyone's all excited about it | 07:03 |
| eudoxia | anyone know if it's any good? | 07:03 |
| eleitl | It has racetams? | 07:03 |
| eleitl | At which concentration, though? | 07:04 |
| eleitl | http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2015/01/14/truth-about-trubrain/ makes more or less sense | 07:05 |
| eleitl | I take many of these already. Not CDP Choline and L-theanine or the racetam. | 07:06 |
| eleitl | I should probably cut back on some of the stuff I take. | 07:08 |
| archels | eudoxia: haha, I want to work where you work | 07:08 |
| eudoxia | eleitl: potentially dangerous interactions? | 07:08 |
| eudoxia | archels: it's a small python/javascript shop so you probably could | 07:09 |
| eudoxia | i'll put in a good word | 07:09 |
| eudoxia | "is a computational neuroscientist, shares my eschatology" | 07:09 |
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| fenn | drinks and blends are a waste of time and money, better to research the individual chemicals themselves and leave the marketing in the trash can | 07:12 |
| eleitl | I try to stick to http://examine.com | 07:14 |
| eleitl | Occasional experimentation. Some things work for me better than for others, others not at all. | 07:15 |
| eleitl | Rhodiola rosea works very well for me. | 07:15 |
| eleitl | Hypericum and bacopa gives me massive GI upset. | 07:16 |
| eleitl | Ashwaghanda works, though. | 07:16 |
| kanzure | another selection project i want to try eventually is infecting mice with brain-dwelling bacteria, then select populations of bacteria that correlate with mice that have better smartness test scores (and breed/mutate those bacteria) | 07:16 |
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| eleitl | I think all your mice who get a bacteria population will get encephalitis. | 07:18 |
| kanzure | you can also expand this to other animal species, e.g. once you have interesting results, select those members of the population that don't kill some other animal, and then keep selecting that population based on whether the positive result is preserved in the original animal chasis, and then continue selection until it improves both animal types. | 07:18 |
| kanzure | encephalitis is not always the result | 07:18 |
| eleitl | I can't think of a single positive bacteria strain that will do something good to your CNS. | 07:19 |
| kanzure | "Staining of sections of human brain with antibodies to peptidoglycan, a component of the bacterial cell wall, suggest that the bacteria are localized mainly in glia (photograph)." | 07:19 |
| kanzure | like http://www.virology.ws/2013/06/28/bacteria-in-our-brains/ | 07:19 |
| fenn | i am sort of curious how they can get 3g of piracetam into a drink without it tasting completely awful | 07:19 |
| eleitl | Is it a drink? I thought it was caps. | 07:20 |
| kanzure | "Some viral sequences were also detected in human brain samples. Human herpesvirus-6, Epstein-Barr virus, cytomegalovirus, and coronavirus nucleic acids were detected in some but not all patient samples, while varicella-zoster virus, herpes simple virus type 1, and Saffold virus were not detected in any specimens." | 07:20 |
| kanzure | "The presence of bacteria in human brain, regardless of underlying disease process, is remarkable. One explanation for this finding might be that soon after death, bacteria invade the brain. This scenario seems unlikely as the findings indicate that the bacteria present in the human brain do not appear to be derived from other body sites." | 07:20 |
| eudoxia | eleitl: it's this viscous fluid in a squeeze bottle thing | 07:20 |
| eleitl | How bad does it taste? | 07:21 |
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| eleitl | I buy caps and cap all my powders, simply because they're nasty or corrosive. | 07:22 |
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| eleitl | kanzure: I would be very surprised if you can find an enhancing strain that is tolerated by the brain | 07:22 |
| eleitl | And mice are not people, anyway. | 07:22 |
| kanzure | i doubt that an enhancing strain exists at the moment | 07:22 |
| kanzure | but you could probably find one that has neutral activity | 07:23 |
| eleitl | Perhaps you should immediately progress to human experiments. And produce a zombie apocalypse. | 07:23 |
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| eleitl | With really brilliant zombies. | 07:23 |
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| eleitl | eudoxia has connectivity problems, apparently | 07:24 |
| kanzure | well he lives in the middle of shit-topia | 07:24 |
| fenn | surely their progressive marijuana policies have degraded the internet there | 07:25 |
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| eudoxia | eleitl: i have not tried it | 07:26 |
| eudoxia | (yet, possibly. idk) | 07:26 |
| eleitl | if it's free, I would try it. If it isn't, I would just make your own stack. | 07:26 |
| fenn | yeah it looks like a reasonable set of ingredients. much better than the usual caffeine + b vitamins + sugar | 07:27 |
| eudoxia | yeah, i checked the nutritional info and i don't think i'll die of hypercaffeinosis or whatever | 07:27 |
| eudoxia | if hypercaffeinosis isn't a term it should be | 07:27 |
| eleitl | I've bought a 100 g of caffein off Amazon, as long as it's still available | 07:28 |
| kanzure | .title http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0054673 | 07:28 |
| yoleaux | PLOS ONE: Brain Microbial Populations in HIV/AIDS: α-Proteobacteria Predominate Independent of Host Immune Status | 07:28 |
| kanzure | "Thus, α-proteobacteria represented the major bacterial component of the primate brain’s microbiome regardless of underlying immune status, which could be transferred into naïve hosts leading to microbial persistence in the brain." | 07:28 |
| kanzure | "Intracerebral implantation of human brain homogenates into RAG1−/− mice revealed a preponderance of α-proteobacteria 16 s RNA sequences in the brains of recipient mice at 7 weeks post-implantation, which was abrogated by prior heat-treatment of the brain homogenate" | 07:29 |
| kanzure | heh one of the backrefs to this paper is "Reagent and laboratory contamination can critically impact sequence-based microbiome analyses" | 07:31 |
| eleitl | http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/microbialunderground/entry/the_brain_microbiome/ | 07:31 |
| kanzure | isn't there also some sort of amoeba that lives in human brain matter? | 07:32 |
| eleitl | The brain-eating amoeba. | 07:32 |
| eleitl | Naegleria fowleri. | 07:33 |
| kanzure | hmm | 07:33 |
| kanzure | i wonder whether people have really looked for non-lethal brain bacteria | 07:33 |
| eleitl | And brain syphilis will give you a nice rush. | 07:33 |
| kanzure | what were the microbes that infect wasp brains to make them suicide or whatever. what were those called? | 07:34 |
| kanzure | ah yes neurosyphilis | 07:34 |
| kanzure | .wik treponema pallidum | 07:35 |
| yoleaux | "Treponema pallidum is a spirochaete bacterium with subspecies that cause treponemal diseases such as syphilis, bejel, pinta, and yaws. The treponemes have a cytoplasmic and an outer membrane. Using light microscopy, treponemes are only visible using dark field illumination. They are gram negative, but some regard them too thin to be gram stained." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treponema_pallidum | 07:35 |
| kanzure | .wik neuroborreliosis | 07:35 |
| yoleaux | "Neuroborreliosis is a disorder of the central nervous system caused by infection with a spirochete of the genus Borrelia. The microbiological progression of the disease is similar to that of neurosyphilis, another spirochetal infection." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroborreliosis | 07:35 |
| eleitl | http://www.walnet.org/sos/cupidsdisease.html | 07:36 |
| eudoxia | .wik nematomorpha | 07:36 |
| yoleaux | "Nematomorpha (sometimes called Gordiacea, Nematomorpha commonly known as horsehair worms or Gordian worms) are a phylum of parasitoid animals superficially similar to nematode worms in morphology, hence the name. They range in size in most species from 50 to 100 centimetres (20 to 39 in) long and can reach in extreme cases up to 2 metres, …" — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nematomorpha | 07:36 |
| kanzure | 2 meter brain worm doesn't sound right, that's not it | 07:38 |
| eleitl | You don't mean Cordyceps, do you? | 07:39 |
| kanzure | ah yes, that's one of them | 07:39 |
| kanzure | "Some current and former Cordyceps species are able to affect the behaviour of their insect host: Ophiocordyceps unilateralis (formerly Cordyceps unilateralis) causes ants to climb a plant and attach there before they die. This ensures the parasite's environment is at an optimal temperature and humidity, and that maximal distribution of the spores from the fruit body that sprouts out of the dead insect is achieved.[5]" | 07:40 |
| kanzure | there's also one that infects mice or cockroaches | 07:40 |
| kanzure | ah, probably toxoplasma gandii | 07:41 |
| kanzure | toxoplasma gondii, gah. | 07:41 |
| eudoxia | well i tried like half a bottle of the original trubrain thing, it tastes rather like toothpaste but worse. clinical aftertaste. | 07:41 |
| kanzure | "T. gondii has been shown to alter the behavior of infected rodents in ways thought to increase the rodents' chances of being preyed upon by cats.[7][11][12]" | 07:41 |
| eleitl | Sure, toxoplasma. | 07:41 |
| kanzure | "... it modifies epigenetic methylation to cause hypomethylation of arginine vasopressin-related genes in the medial amygdala to greatly decrease predator aversion.[13][14" | 07:42 |
| kanzure | "Widespread histone-lysine acetylation in cortical astrocytes appears to be another epigenetic mechanism employed by T. gondii.[15][16]" | 07:42 |
| kanzure | "Differences in aversion to cat urine are observed between non-infected and infected humans and sex differences within these groups were apparent as well.[17]" | 07:42 |
| fenn | eudoxia the piracetam taste is less awful if mixed with orange juice | 07:42 |
| fenn | probably the citric acid shields it | 07:43 |
| eleitl | Or you could try noopept, or any other of these crazy russian piracetam analoga | 07:43 |
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| eleitl | I mean, it's your own brain to fuck up, why not | 07:43 |
| fenn | hey it makes a better placebo if it tastes bad | 07:44 |
| kanzure | also, if i was doing a bacteria/microbe selection experiment for brain infections, i would also include some basic neural growth factor genes, and have them expressed at some base rate with some common promoter probably | 07:44 |
| kanzure | and then mutations are slightly more likely to cause things that might be neuronally-relevant | 07:44 |
| eudoxia | fenn: i don't have oj on hand | 07:44 |
| fenn | jesus he really is going to cause the zombie apocalypse one of these days | 07:44 |
| kanzure | also i think you could make strains that target only specific brain regions | 07:45 |
| kanzure | hey don't hate, appreciate | 07:45 |
| eleitl | He's probably just trying to reverse engineer the Focus of Emergents. | 07:45 |
| kanzure | this technique could probably also be used to help prevent human brain whithering in old age | 07:45 |
| fenn | please confine your research to "vectors" not "infections" | 07:45 |
| eleitl | For world domination purposes, clearly. | 07:45 |
| kanzure | although brain mass loss in old age doesn't seem particular detrimental- i'm still confused about that | 07:46 |
| eleitl | It is one hell of detrimental. | 07:46 |
| eleitl | You're just compensating for it better. | 07:46 |
| kanzure | yesterday i was talking with andytoshi and i mentioned that a long-term strategy for figuring out why brain matter works is to breed smaller and smaller brains, like getting the smallest possible pile of neurons in a mouse brain that still does vaguely mouse-like things. | 07:46 |
| kanzure | and presumably smaller piles of neurons are easier to investigate | 07:47 |
| eleitl | What's wrong with snails? | 07:47 |
| eudoxia | why not investigate nervous systems that are already small | 07:47 |
| eudoxia | and have observable behaviors | 07:48 |
| kanzure | eudoxia: because c. elegan behavior is kinda boring | 07:48 |
| eleitl | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymnaea_stagnalis#/media/File:Lymnaea_stagnalis_central_ring_ganglia.jpg | 07:48 |
| kanzure | eleitl: nothing is wrong with snails | 07:48 |
| eleitl | I now have a stable population of them in two ponds. | 07:48 |
| eleitl | They're growing much better than in an aquarium. I will rewild the rest of mine somewhere. | 07:49 |
| kanzure | also you could have bacteria/microbes that have "stages" of their life where the initial stage is migrating to their final brain matter destination | 07:50 |
| kanzure | (you could also possibly guide them with external signals like magnetic fields or mechanical vibrations) | 07:50 |
| kanzure | anyway one neat trick that could be used here is you could differently infect one hemisphere of the brain, or use one side as your control | 07:51 |
| eleitl | I still fail to see how bacteria can have a positive contribution. | 07:51 |
| eleitl | They're small, and just produce diffusible molecules. | 07:51 |
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| kanzure | they are signal processors | 07:52 |
| kanzure | they detect molecular signals and poop other molecules in response | 07:52 |
| eleitl | Very poor signal processors, if compared to neurons. | 07:52 |
| kanzure | right, they would probably not be participating in any electrical activity | 07:52 |
| eleitl | Just their shape makes them simple players. | 07:52 |
| kanzure | there is much more to brain activity and brain growth than electrical activity | 07:53 |
| kanzure | .wik bdnf | 07:53 |
| yoleaux | "Brain-derived neurotrophic factor, also known as BDNF, is a protein that, in humans, is encoded by the BDNF gene. BDNF is a member of the neurotrophin family of growth factors, which are related to the canonical Nerve Growth Factor. Neurotrophic factors are found in the brain and the periphery." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bdnf | 07:53 |
| fenn | some bacteria can make magnetic nanoparticles... | 07:54 |
| eleitl | That's the reason some supplment Lion's mane and consorts. | 07:54 |
| kanzure | you probably wouldn't need the bacteria to replicate, either. having a non-replicating population might even be ideal. | 07:54 |
| eleitl | How do you get bacteria to be so cooperative? | 07:55 |
| kanzure | breaking their ability to replicate is trivial | 07:55 |
| eleitl | Even your gut microbiota will go wild if it detects damage in the gut lining. | 07:56 |
| kanzure | gut biome is quite different | 07:56 |
| kanzure | fenn: you could possibly have a strain that has a magnetic nanoparticle inside of it that it cannot expel (somehow), and then each bacteria is doomed to live forever with that particle, instead of manufacturing new magnetic nanoparticles | 07:57 |
| eleitl | Oh, look. Germany will receive another data retention legislation attempt. | 07:57 |
| eleitl | Wonder what they think of my traffic. | 07:59 |
| kanzure | i also think bacteria that help preserve human brain matter should be investigated, although this is much more speculative | 07:59 |
| kanzure | and why do i keep saying bacteria? i mean any microbes..... | 07:59 |
| eleitl | You can do with perfusion far more than with onboard means. | 08:00 |
| kanzure | perhaps i have been infected by bacteria to prefer injecting bacteria (over other possible organisms) into other brain matter | 08:00 |
| eleitl | No metabolic limits, no need to maintain active metabolism. | 08:00 |
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| kanzure | no not during storage, prior to perfusion | 08:08 |
| kanzure | initial setup can be improved | 08:08 |
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| kanzure | besides, why are all of you so suddenly interested in zombies? | 09:00 |
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| maaku | kanzure: because the GOP primary's coverage in the media obviously | 09:19 |
| maaku | http://legacy.utsandiego.com/news/features/20081108-9999-1n8vampire.html | 09:19 |
| kanzure | .title | 09:22 |
| yoleaux | Features | SignOnSanDiego.com | The San Diego Union-Tribune -- With Obama election comes the return of the vampire | 09:22 |
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| kanzure | https://medium.com/@bramcohen/bitcoin-s-ironic-crisis-32226a85e39f | 10:05 |
| kanzure | .tell CaptHindsight you should call me on the phone when you have a few minutes to talk about machine plans, 512-203-0507 | 10:22 |
| yoleaux | kanzure: I'll pass your message to CaptHindsight. | 10:22 |
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| kanzure | https://wiki.debian.org/ReproducibleBuilds | 11:32 |
| kanzure | http://www.myhdl.org/ | 11:34 |
| kanzure | oh.. "MYHDL isn't compile-able(synthesizable) to hardware." | 11:34 |
| xrr | yay for reproducible builds | 11:38 |
| xrr | didn't realize whole Debian is heading this direction, I've only heard about Tor doing it | 11:40 |
| maaku | well it started with bitcoin :P | 11:43 |
| namespace | It was long overdue really. | 11:44 |
| namespace | We've basically known that the NSA is monitoring everything since like the mid 2000's, having it shoved in our face has just been a really nice kick in the butt to get us to make some long overdue security process udates to things. | 11:45 |
| kanzure | maaku: bitcoin started reproducible builds? no way | 11:46 |
| xrr | wonder if there were any actual modified debian packages that got screwed by this | 11:46 |
| namespace | Also wow, every package? | 11:47 |
| namespace | That's ambitious. | 11:47 |
| kanzure | it would probably be easier to start with a distribution that only has reproducible builds | 11:48 |
| namespace | Probably. But this is debian, they don't really have that option. | 11:48 |
| maaku | started? no it's an old idea. but xrr mentioned Tor which is doing reproducable builds the bitcoin way | 11:50 |
| kanzure | gitian? | 11:50 |
| maaku | kanzure: originally https://blog.torproject.org/blog/deterministic-builds-part-two-technical-details | 11:51 |
| maaku | i'm not sure if they still use gitian | 11:51 |
| xrr | now we need a tool translate C -> rust and voila | 12:00 |
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| maaku | why all the rust fandom everywhere? | 12:05 |
| xrr | tbh I don't know much about rust, but doesn't it kill memory corruption? that sounds pretty good imho | 12:06 |
| dingo_ | code: https://gist.github.com/jquast/9cfe1b729daee843657a output: https://teamcity-master.pexpect.org/tmp/ | 12:06 |
| dingo_ | i shared the output previously, i thught i'd share graph node code i am not so proud of haha | 12:06 |
| dingo_ | xrr: rust is higher performant in some areas, aparently | 12:08 |
| dingo_ | I think rust is your most C-like opportunity out there, I'm considering it myself | 12:08 |
| dingo_ | it doesn't have indeterminiate garbage collection timing like go would, for example | 12:08 |
| dingo_ | and i'm certain i've read it has some kind of "Unsafe" marker, to allow you to work with "pointer of any type to any memory address I see fit" where required | 12:09 |
| namespace | Yeah. | 12:09 |
| namespace | Rust is a genuine competitor to C, which is what everybody wanted Go to be but it wasn't. | 12:09 |
| dingo_ | the only other popular one in the same landscape as Rust i think is D? | 12:10 |
| kanzure | dingo_: pm plz | 12:10 |
| dingo_ | I get confused about what the "D" language is, as I used to author dtrace scripts in an entirely different D language if i recall | 12:10 |
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| maaku | I just wish people would use a modern language and not continue insisting on C-like semantics | 12:23 |
| dingo_ | those modern languages are making our 1Ghz devices as slow as the 8Mhz palm pilots of yore, for some reason | 12:24 |
| maaku | dingo_: i mean, something like haskell | 12:24 |
| dingo_ | can't say it has a place everywhere, most places, really | 12:25 |
| dingo_ | places i want something like Rust is where i write 8 lines of code that looks almost precisely like the machine code I expect the cpu to run | 12:25 |
| dingo_ | can't say haskell does me very well there | 12:25 |
| dingo_ | when i had the opportunity to use haskell, it required bootstrap compiling from a binary that was intel x86-only, and could not produce on a non-intel server environment i was expected to run it on | 12:26 |
| maaku | dingo_: problem is the idea the compiler just translates your C/Rust code into machine code that is structurally the same is archaic. hasn't worked that way for a long time | 12:26 |
| dingo_ | i hope it is truely cross-platform now | 12:27 |
| maaku | so you might as well graduate to encoding the semantics of what you want instead | 12:27 |
| maaku | it's very cross platform (compiles to LLVM), and faster than C | 12:27 |
| dingo_ | i've been writing primarily in python for 14 years, so i'm not a C fan if you're calling me one :) | 12:27 |
| dingo_ | i don't know if you've read articles on authoring a game as simple as Pacman in Haskell, requiring a **great** deal of thought. Frankly, I'm not smart enough for it. | 12:28 |
| dingo_ | I'm a high school dropout, really. I'm not the future programmers you wish to have :) | 12:28 |
| dingo_ | anyway glad to hear haskell is no longer with .asm stub files | 12:30 |
| dingo_ | maybe when i stop getting paid to work in other languages I can revisit it again :) | 12:30 |
| dingo_ | too bad I can't go work for jstor.org again and use it for a metadata business rules language that I wanted to at the time | 12:30 |
| dingo_ | I thought haskell would be perfect, it would read almost like an SQL query, but better | 12:31 |
| dingo_ | but it was expected to bang 128 "cores" of a sun naigra sparc processor | 12:32 |
| maaku | sounds like a job for datalog | 12:32 |
| dingo_ | perhaps, there was much xml transforming, rest calls, oracle sql queries, and nfs-hosted filesystem xml filedata to join together | 12:32 |
| dingo_ | any of those may also have been a challenge to do in haskell, or require some kind of "other language bakes" stub | 12:33 |
| dingo_ | which i did anyway, with redis and python, thanks to multiprocessor module that came out that year | 12:34 |
| dingo_ | previously with jython or just pure java | 12:34 |
| dingo_ | the guys before me used perl, and parsed xml with regular expressions, and did a hell of a fail :) | 12:35 |
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| xrr | our e-voting server does some funky xml parsing: https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine/blob/master/ivote-server/cgi/sigvalidator.py | 12:46 |
| dingo_ | ...oh my | 12:47 |
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| kanzure | this is how you give dingo a heart attack | 13:05 |
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| kanzure | speaking of which, you could also infect hearts with bacteria that respond to cardiac stress with factors that might prevent or delay cardiac arrest. | 14:44 |
| kanzure | eh, nevermind, that one is less interesting to me | 14:45 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=3d5cf16f Bryan Bishop: link to microbial nootropics discussion >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/nootropics/microbes/ | 14:51 |
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| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by lobsters everywhere, banned by the Federal Death Administration (5 times) | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | http://diyhpl.us/wiki | "ray kurzweil is a pessimist" - george church | 14:53 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] [Wed May 20 12:46:25 2015] | 14:53 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 14:53 | |
| [ Acty ] [ CheckDavid ] [ erasmus ] [ kindoflike ] [ ParahSailin_ ] [ strangewarp ] | 14:53 | |
| [ altersid ] [ crescendo ] [ fenn ] [ knobuddy ] [ pasky ] [ streety ] | 14:53 | |
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| kanzure | they are symbiotes, not infections. | 15:00 |
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| jrayhawk | that's odd | 15:12 |
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| jrayhawk | coincidence, I guess. | 15:28 |
| jrayhawk | last thing it received was at 14:47 | 15:29 |
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| kanzure | you guys are boring | 17:05 |
| kanzure | where's nmz787 | 17:05 |
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| kanzure | http://chemjobber.blogspot.com/2014/11/does-anyone-know-what-cambrian-genomics.html | 17:15 |
| kanzure | "How do you plan to stop people from using your technology to create very dangerous microorganisms?" "Virtualization. Instead of mailing out DNA we will send the DNA to a virtualization center like Transcriptic, Synthego, or Emerald Cloud Lab. From there they can put thousands of different DNA strands into thousands of cells then make thousands of video files of what those cells are doing and then do image process and machine learning on ... | 17:15 |
| kanzure | ... those videos and send that data back to the user to do the next design. Not until the final organism is made will it be evaluated for release [to the customer]. This definitely lowers the bar for us for processing orders because as long as the screening is heavily locked down there is little risk of release of malicious code." | 17:15 |
| kanzure | gah.... that's terrible. | 17:15 |
| kanzure | "...Where do you see the future of the company in 5 and 10 years?" "In the next 5 years we want to be the largest manufacturer of DNA in the world. In 10 years we hope to be closer to our longterm mission of replacing all natural organisms on the planet with better synthetic ones. For instance having made the DNA for say 10% of all plant on the planet surface sounds like a reasonable goal." | 17:16 |
| kanzure | :-) | 17:16 |
| streety | certainly thinking big | 17:20 |
| kanzure | so to the first quote, it's bad because ti means that even if they are operating as a dna manufacturing facility, they wont be shipping dna | 17:20 |
| kanzure | if anything this just reinforces the notion that dna manufacturing and dna synthesis equipment needs to be local and available for anyone to use | 17:20 |
| kanzure | otherwise people are just going to lock this down and make it practically unusable | 17:20 |
| kanzure | as for their short-term goals, taking over the planet seems like a sufficiently ambitious project | 17:21 |
| Betawolf | my concern with their setup would be that anything really big (useful, profitable) could be locked down as dangerous. | 17:26 |
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| streety | if their 10-year goal is the global extinction of every species alive today just how bad do they think a 'very dangerous' actor could be? | 17:31 |
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| kanzure | hmph | 20:18 |
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| kanzure | streety: well i would imagine a more ambitious plan would be something like "colonize the galaxy" or "destroy the entire galaxy" | 20:19 |
| kanzure | it's very important that whatever the more ambitious plan happens to be, it must involve the phrase "the entire galaxy" | 20:19 |
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