| --- Log opened Fri Aug 21 00:00:47 2015 | ||
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| justanotheruser | https://ia800304.us.archive.org/3/items/EtherealVerses/Ethereal_Verses.pdf | 03:58 |
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| justanotheruser | I hope those links are static... | 03:58 |
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| kanzure | all of that was boring | 06:42 |
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| Betawolf | http://weinspectrealestate.com/PDF/wood_boring_insect_guide.pdf | 06:45 |
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| kanzure | relevant china-spam "Our main items are Biotin reagents & Trifluoromethanesulfonate salt,such as D-Biotin,Biotin hydrazide,6-Maleimidocaproic acid, Aluminum trifluoromethanesulfonate ,Lithium triflate, etc." | 06:54 |
| kanzure | Betawolf: have an insect problem i guess? | 07:01 |
| kanzure | .wik rolling hash | 07:03 |
| yoleaux | "A rolling hash is a hash function where the input is hashed in a window that moves through the input." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_hash | 07:03 |
| kanzure | ps4 hacking stuff http://cturt.github.io/ps4.html | 07:03 |
| Betawolf | It was a joke. You kept saying people were boring, so I provided a boring insect identification guide. | 07:05 |
| Betawolf | In compensation for the joke, people might be interested in: http://www.longevityhistory.com/book/indexpdf.html if it's not already been brought up. | 07:05 |
| kanzure | haven't seen any videos or transcripts from the sens foundation conference yet, did they all die or what | 07:15 |
| kanzure | ah today is their last day. so videos over the weekend probably, if any. | 07:15 |
| kanzure | ugh "crowdfunding for anti-aging projects" https://www.lifespan.io/ | 07:17 |
| Betawolf | https://www.fightaging.org/fund-research/ huh, large anonymous donation. | 07:18 |
| Betawolf | there's a live-blogging thing if you're interested in the conference: https://medium.com/@dandv/live-blogging-from-rb2015-rejuvenation-biotechnology-6f8aa0413092 | 07:19 |
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| kanzure | https://medium.com/@dandv/rb2015-helen-m-blau-rejuvenation-of-aged-muscle-stem-cell-population-2d547159e484 | 07:52 |
| kanzure | https://medium.com/@dandv/rb2015-liam-grover-designing-materials-to-maximise-regeneration-bbc720963315 | 07:53 |
| kanzure | pfft igem has been contracting with idt http://2015.igem.org/Synthesis | 08:09 |
| kanzure | "20 kb of free dna synthesis" pffffffft | 08:09 |
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| kanzure | http://news.usni.org/2015/08/19/exploring-the-wreck-of-uss-macon-the-navys-last-flying-aircraft-carrier | 08:26 |
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| chris_99 | CaptHindsight, are you about per chance | 08:42 |
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| kanzure | "I love the garden. I respect its inhabitants and a commitment to cooperation and clean epistemology. But the rules of the garden are a _terrible_ guide to getting things done in the rest of the world. The median epistemic hygiene of the world is sufficiently bad that I (usually) don’t worry about making it any worse in the course of actually getting stuff done." | 09:24 |
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| ParahSailin_ | dangit my rsu's | 11:00 |
| kanzure | went up in smoke? | 11:00 |
| ParahSailin_ | maybe this will mean housing prices will take a bit of dip when i need it | 11:01 |
| ParahSailin_ | whose neighbor should i be in oakland | 11:02 |
| kanzure | you could go live with fenn | 11:11 |
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| kanzure | "making falsifiable claims makes an ideology less adapted to human hosts." | 11:18 |
| xtalmath | "This reminds me of the perfect compression scheme. It can compress any size input down to a single bit. Decompression was out-of-scope, not to mention impossible. If you only care about measuring compression efficiency what's the big deal? </sarcasm/>" hahaha | 11:21 |
| xtalmath | pure genius | 11:21 |
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| kanzure | "In my more mean-spirited and uncharitable moments, I like to think of Biasocial Science as an enterprise driven by the grand-daddy of all biases: the bias towards believing that cataloging biases advances our understanding of the human condition in a fundamental way that can enable the construction and enactment of a progressive “Ascent of Quantified Man” narrative." | 11:35 |
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| CaptHindsight | chris_99: I'll be around in a few hours from now | 12:22 |
| chris_99 | okey dokey ta, just wanted to ask you something regarding inkjet piezos | 12:23 |
| kanzure | dude sees 5 year old email about hacking solidworks from me -> shoots an email to the mailing list asking for an update -> i reply within 2 minutes -> he sends me another email (privately) because apparently he got bored waiting those 2 whole minutes | 12:33 |
| xtalmath | kanzure: lol | 12:35 |
| xtalmath | I was thinking about the army brain organoids in my dream/sleep. given the boston dynamics video's we have all seen, it seems they may intend to grow brains for battlebots | 12:36 |
| xtalmath | attaching electrodes to retinas is a feat accomplished | 12:36 |
| xtalmath | the soldiers wouldnt have to fight, just donate some skin cells | 12:37 |
| xtalmath | the brains would be less afraid of losing limbs, they can just get a replacement mechanical limb | 12:37 |
| xtalmath | its easier to do mindcontrol on biological brains, which supposedly have innate intuition to blindly trust its parents | 12:38 |
| xtalmath | also easier to control the brain worldviews, by not having a real human youth | 12:38 |
| kanzure | aren't bombs easier? | 12:39 |
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| xtalmath | kanzure: bombs have a lower dexterity, the number of bits is just the location and radius of damage | 12:40 |
| kanzure | vinay gupta claims that bitcoin is suffering from a lack of reading kevin carson stuff on anarchism. weird stuff. haven't heard kevin's name in a long time. | 12:40 |
| xtalmath | kanzure: soldiers can move things, force people, inspect things, ... | 12:40 |
| xtalmath | thats way more dexterity/cybernetic control expressed in bits | 12:41 |
| xtalmath | its also why nukes are not that interesting in the end | 12:41 |
| xtalmath | also less property damage | 12:41 |
| kanzure | last time i saw kevin carson around these parts was http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com/ | 12:41 |
| kanzure | and i don't know why i didn't expect vinay gupta to know kevin carson. seems like a reasonable thing. | 12:41 |
| kanzure | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Carson | 12:42 |
| kanzure | fenn: what was the reason you were originally stalking vinay gupta anyway? | 12:43 |
| kanzure | was it because of smari mccarthy? | 12:44 |
| kanzure | vinay claiming things about kevin carson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHFSvttMg6E | 12:44 |
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| kanzure | better version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaaknMDbQGc | 12:51 |
| kanzure | "Limits on fundamental limits to computation" http://arxiv.org/abs/1408.3821 | 13:43 |
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| kanzure | table 1 is neat | 13:46 |
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| xtalmath | kanzure: how can I quickly locate the $1000 dollar microlithography setup paper on your site? its a bit disorderly | 14:37 |
| CaptHindsight | xtalmath: http://ma.ecsdl.org/content/MA2012-02/59/3990.full.pdf#page=1&view=FitH and similar | 14:42 |
| xtalmath | yah | 14:42 |
| CaptHindsight | inverse microscope | 14:44 |
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| chris_99 | i wonder if that setup would be good for highres 3D models | 14:51 |
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| CaptHindsight | just needs a system to deposit photopolymers | 14:56 |
| chris_99 | so they've essentially strapped a laser onto a micropositioner, and they're using that to do the drawing right? | 14:57 |
| CaptHindsight | in that ^^ example yes, and the microscope is used to view it | 15:02 |
| CaptHindsight | they are probably using a microscope objective with the laser to focus down to ~1um | 15:02 |
| chris_99 | neat, i guess the stepper motors don't need to be very precise, would something like microstepping a 0.9 deg stepper be enough? | 15:03 |
| CaptHindsight | with what screw pitch? | 15:03 |
| xtalmath | in a related paper, they achieve 500nm http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/High%20resolution,%20low%20cost%20laser%20lithography%20using%20a%20Blu-ray%20optical%20head%20assembly.pdf | 15:05 |
| chris_99 | sorry what do you mean, my mechanical knowledge is poor, i was thinking you could attach a stepper to the micropositioners knobs, via some sort of timing belt | 15:05 |
| CaptHindsight | 1mm pitch / 360 = ~2.8um per step with ideal screw | 15:05 |
| xtalmath | CaptHindsight: I have stepper motor with 2000 or so steps per turn (gearing) | 15:06 |
| xtalmath | they were the cheapes in the local electronics store, bad buy btw, because they are slow (although I used too low a voltage) | 15:06 |
| xtalmath | CaptHindsight: also, id use 0.5mm pitch M3 or smth | 15:07 |
| CaptHindsight | xtalmath: chris_99 is wondering how this all works, step rates, screw pitch, etc. | 15:08 |
| chris_99 | yeah im confused how you attach a stepper to the micropositioner knobs | 15:09 |
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| xtalmath | chris_99: the stepper motor is coupled to a threaded rod, and a nut on the rod is attached to the stage | 15:09 |
| nmz787_w | xtalmath: this offers better resolution http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/High%20resolution,%20low%20cost%20laser%20lithography%20using%20a%20Blu-ray%20optical%20head%20assembly.pdf | 15:09 |
| gradstudentbot | Haha, undergrads. | 15:09 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: screw pitch is the distance between threads | 15:09 |
| chris_99 | ah | 15:10 |
| xtalmath | nmz787_w: they are identical? | 15:10 |
| CaptHindsight | http://www.boltscience.com/images/screw3.gif | 15:10 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: so say it's 1mm pitch then one turn moves the nut on the crew 1mm | 15:10 |
| CaptHindsight | crew/screw | 15:10 |
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| CaptHindsight | and if you have 1000 steps per rev then 1mm / 1000 is the distance per step | 15:11 |
| xtalmath | chris_99: the timing belt should work in theory | 15:11 |
| chris_99 | i'm still slightly confused, are they using a standard micropositioner such as http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261960369755?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT which has knobs you turn, i can't see how you'd attach a screw to that? | 15:11 |
| kanzure | xtalmath: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/ | 15:11 |
| kanzure | xtalmath: and http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/ | 15:11 |
| nmz787_w | xtalmath: no, the one i just posted doesn't use a microscope, it uses a bluray writer optical sled | 15:12 |
| xtalmath | nmz787_w: I posted both | 15:12 |
| xtalmath | kanzure: yeah, its where I originally read them | 15:12 |
| kanzure | xtalmath: for good projects i have budget available, btw | 15:12 |
| kanzure | good open-source hardware projects | 15:12 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: they don't list it but it's probably s crew type positioner | 15:12 |
| nmz787_w | xtalmath: oh, it doesn't show up in the logs for today\ | 15:12 |
| xtalmath | kanzure: that sounds interesting, but I don't know how that would work with taxes here? | 15:13 |
| chris_99 | CaptHindsight, so theoretically you could pull off the knobs and attach a screw maybe? | 15:13 |
| nmz787_w | chris_99: that ebay link you posted has the screws hidden | 15:13 |
| xtalmath | kanzure: perhaps later, I will first get acquainted with my 3d printer I just got | 15:13 |
| gradstudentbot | Just wait until the ethics review board never hears about this. | 15:13 |
| chris_99 | nmz787_w, hidden where? behind the knobs or.. | 15:14 |
| xtalmath | kanzure: I may remind you of your offer at a later date, but instead of $ specific tool like say a micrometer stage... | 15:14 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: if you have machine tools you can make just about anything | 15:14 |
| kanzure | xtalmath: nah i mean we need good open-source hardware projects for things like photolithography | 15:14 |
| kanzure | not just "adding to xtalmath's tool collection" | 15:14 |
| xtalmath | kanzure: yes, that is how I understood it | 15:15 |
| kanzure | k | 15:15 |
| xtalmath | the former | 15:15 |
| xtalmath | lol | 15:15 |
| xtalmath | your not santa ofc | 15:15 |
| gradstudentbot | Oh yeah, isn't that already a part on the biobrick registry? | 15:15 |
| nmz787_w | chris_99: hidden inside the positioner | 15:15 |
| xtalmath | your saying something similar like people who buy linux dev's peripherals in exchange for FOSS driver support | 15:15 |
| nmz787_w | chris_99: presumbaly the screw is co-axial with the knobs... but they could be connected by a gear or something i suppose | 15:16 |
| chris_99 | mmm | 15:16 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: http://www.manualpositioning.com/pic/other/XYZ_Positioning_System_with_Large-Area_Platform.jpg you might be thinking of one of these | 15:17 |
| kanzure | xtalmath: kinda | 15:17 |
| xtalmath | nmz787_w: I have a micro milling machine, and it has a positioning stage, I wondered if the stage would be precise enough for the microlithography? | 15:17 |
| CaptHindsight | but they are also available motorized with lead screws, ball screws, linear servos or piezos | 15:17 |
| xtalmath | basically I might just attach a bluray optics assembly and try on the milling machine, without decomposing the milling machine | 15:18 |
| chris_99 | it's a shame the paper isn't more specific on what they used | 15:18 |
| nmz787_w | xtalmath: with the right feedback it could be... something like optical feedback or interferometry | 15:18 |
| kanzure | nmz787_w: why were we looking at optics stuff for that? fenn pointed out that the original plan was "use the same optics from the bluray drive" | 15:19 |
| xtalmath | nmz787_w I was thinking scanner linear CIS sensor, they are routinely 1000fps to 10000fps | 15:19 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: yeah, it's obvious to anyone that builds automation systems or machines | 15:19 |
| xtalmath | coupled with video lenses | 15:19 |
| chris_99 | ah heh | 15:19 |
| nmz787_w | kanzure: optics for feedback... basically just a microscope pointed at a decent-enough quality grid reticle (I was thinking a laser printed grid would be fine) | 15:20 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: but it's not a simple howto for someone new to the tech | 15:20 |
| xtalmath | they only made linear traces though, so that inherently does not suffer from potential backlash in a stage | 15:20 |
| nmz787_w | kanzure: also at some point we didn't think to use a bluray drive | 15:20 |
| kanzure | no way it was for feedback. i don't remember that being the reason. | 15:20 |
| kanzure | yes i think it was because we decided against bluray but why? | 15:20 |
| xtalmath | I am curious why not the blu ray? | 15:20 |
| kanzure | maybe we just forgot that we had a good solution | 15:21 |
| xtalmath | they are mandated to have a specific small maximum spot size | 15:21 |
| nmz787_w | i never thought anyone decided against bluray | 15:21 |
| xtalmath | according to blu ray spec | 15:21 |
| kanzure | if "quality control" was the reason that we stopped then fuck that? | 15:21 |
| nmz787_w | i think the interest died down though when I was trying to talk about that | 15:21 |
| kanzure | right, fenn died | 15:21 |
| kanzure | but that's not the reason | 15:21 |
| kanzure | microscope optics were being attempted for some reason | 15:21 |
| nmz787_w | you wanted a webscope | 15:21 |
| xtalmath | uh fenn is still alive? | 15:21 |
| kanzure | xtalmath: death is just a state of mind | 15:21 |
| CaptHindsight | what's the blueray for? polymerizing a resist or? | 15:21 |
| nmz787_w | and I think i found that english open source scope | 15:21 |
| nmz787_w | yep | 15:22 |
| kanzure | CaptHindsight: laser cutter, polymerization if good photoresist found, etc. | 15:22 |
| xtalmath | kanzure: I guess you were thinking of fuck direct write, lets couple an LCD with microscopes? | 15:22 |
| nmz787_w | xtalmath: you can still see lead screw wobble in those lines though | 15:22 |
| kanzure | was this stuff http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher/ | 15:22 |
| kanzure | xtalmath: no, we were trying to keep things simple | 15:22 |
| gradstudentbot | My matlab crashed. | 15:23 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: this type uses a piezo motor http://www.pi-usa.us/products/images/300x250_images/XYZ_nanopositioning_stages-P611_3.jpg | 15:23 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: for nanopositioning | 15:23 |
| nmz787_w | xtalmath: at some point you can start to see interpixel deadzone noise, unless you overrepresent your feature with more than one pixel (need more mag, so get less field of view) | 15:23 |
| xtalmath | I wish a miniature version of the laser system in laser printers were possible for microlithography | 15:23 |
| nmz787_w | and then you need imaging again to stick FOVs | 15:23 |
| nmz787_w | stitch* | 15:23 |
| chris_99 | interesting, i think i've seen some AFM stuff, where they use piezos CaptHindsight | 15:23 |
| xtalmath | nmz787_w I see the wobble but not sure what you refer to with deadzone noise | 15:24 |
| xtalmath | nmz787_w oh you mean for coupling LCD | 15:24 |
| gradstudentbot | Blah, why won't they just kick me out. | 15:24 |
| kanzure | p. sure we've had this conversation before, we were telling you nope about the "interpixel deadzone" stuff | 15:24 |
| kanzure | 19:11 < fenn> "interpixel noise" doesn't seem like a good excuse; you can blur the lines between pixels anyway | 15:25 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/optics/photolithography/Development%20of%20microfabrication%20technology%20with%20maskless%20photolithography%20device%20using%20LCD%20projector%20-%20Itoga%20-%202010.pdf | 15:25 |
| xtalmath | oh you mean screendoor effect | 15:25 |
| kanzure | 19:13 < kanzure> page 2 figure 2 | 15:25 |
| xtalmath | yeah just blur | 15:25 |
| kanzure | 19:14 < fenn> kanzure: that's the answer to the problem he's proposing, not the problem | 15:25 |
| kanzure | er... well.. whatever. | 15:25 |
| CaptHindsight | add a femtosecond laser for two photon polymerization | 15:26 |
| xtalmath | this channel got lively | 15:26 |
| CaptHindsight | or use two visible light lasers that interfere to make features down to ~150nm | 15:27 |
| nmz787_w | kanzure: that isn't the paper i'm referring to with the inter-pixel noise... but yeah the solution is to over-magnify and use multiple pixels for a single smallest-feature you want | 15:27 |
| fenn | i'm not dead | 15:28 |
| kanzure | you were dead at the time | 15:28 |
| fenn | i was in the shower hrmph | 15:28 |
| kanzure | same thing | 15:28 |
| xtalmath | Im guessing this is a case of analysis paralysis. the people who write these papers didnt spend years to optimize this specific setup, they just tried a novel idea, and used their limited resources to report on feasibility, with a heads up of some imperfections of their techniques | 15:28 |
| xtalmath | half a year later they are doing a different project | 15:29 |
| fenn | i first heard about vinay gupta because the hexayurt was similar to things i was working on at the time | 15:29 |
| fenn | and he kept popping up everywhere | 15:29 |
| kanzure | but what else after hexayurt | 15:29 |
| fenn | he was on open manufacturing | 15:29 |
| nmz787_w | idk if this is the exact one, but it was on this site http://www.intelligentmp.com/Downloads/Technical%20Papers/SF-100%20Greyscale%20Paper.pdf | 15:29 |
| xtalmath | I think of hobbyists take either system like the direct write or the LCD, without being forced to investigate a completely different thing, they can perfect on the setup | 15:29 |
| nmz787_w | from this list http://www.intelligentmp.com/downloadstechnicalpapers.html | 15:29 |
| kanzure | ah okay, then that is why i remember seeing lots of him | 15:30 |
| kanzure | "funny, i don't remember looking up hexayurt that often...." | 15:30 |
| chris_99 | CaptHindsight, oh earlier i was going to ask you i was reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_cryptanalysis it says 'In March 2015, it was made public that some inkjet printers using ultrasonic heads can be read back using high frequency MEMS microphones ...' which i've not been able to find any sources for, but i found some information that the drive frequency for one of epsons piezo heads is 8kHz, is around that | 15:30 |
| chris_99 | frequency fairly common? | 15:30 |
| CaptHindsight | xtalmath: by hobbyists you mean reprapists?? | 15:30 |
| fenn | raping the replicators | 15:30 |
| xtalmath | CaptHindsight: hah | 15:31 |
| kanzure | #notallreprapists | 15:31 |
| fenn | i'm not a hobbyist, but... | 15:31 |
| fenn | i do enjoy trains | 15:31 |
| kanzure | you probably don't qualify as a hobbyist | 15:32 |
| xtalmath | chris_99: I think they mean that ultrasonic microphones can recover what is privately being printed, like EM emissions from CRT tubes before | 15:32 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: lots of assumptions would have to be made | 15:32 |
| xtalmath | sounds reasonable to me | 15:32 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: plus you have 0-180 nozzles up to 8x firing at the same time | 15:33 |
| fenn | i went to the scrap yard yesterday and got a big square tube of steel, and this seems like a repeatable exercise | 15:33 |
| fenn | i was worried about the availability of cheap materials in the area | 15:33 |
| gradstudentbot | Who's in charge of the master mix? | 15:33 |
| xtalmath | for a single pixel (or dot in printer terminology), the piezo does 1 oscillation (i.e. impulsive)? or multiple (thermal expansion)? | 15:34 |
| CaptHindsight | xtalmath: depends on the mode | 15:34 |
| xtalmath | CaptHindsight: an inkjet printer can have 180 nozzles? | 15:34 |
| kanzure | can have many nozzles | 15:34 |
| CaptHindsight | one pixel could be made of 6 drops that combine in flight | 15:35 |
| xtalmath | CYMK? | 15:35 |
| kanzure | fenn: you should make up a shopping cart for SCOEW/EWOD things if you want to play around with that eventually. i'm willing to pay even if the parts sit around for a while. | 15:35 |
| CaptHindsight | xtalmath: Epsons have 180 nozzles per channel and up to 8 channels in one head | 15:35 |
| kanzure | fenn: or for bluray laser cutter stuff | 15:35 |
| fenn | my mind is currently in "acquire basic fabrication technology infrastructure" mode | 15:36 |
| kanzure | probably there's lots of cheapo "bag of 1 million LCDs" on ebay | 15:36 |
| xtalmath | hmm, ok, but I still think simply plotting the recording as amplitude, while syncing retrace will give a discernible image | 15:36 |
| kanzure | fenn: may i ask why? | 15:36 |
| chris_99 | what's a nozzle defined as CaptHindsight | 15:36 |
| kanzure | fenn: too much "rationality bootcamp"? :-) | 15:36 |
| fenn | annoyed at everyone sucking | 15:36 |
| fenn | the hackerspaces around here are super lame | 15:36 |
| kanzure | lamer than other hackerspaces? | 15:37 |
| xtalmath | fenn: where you live? | 15:37 |
| fenn | apparently http://www.makeitlabs.com/about/equipment | 15:37 |
| fenn | xtalmath: berkeley, california | 15:37 |
| CaptHindsight | http://www.sdott.com/pic/Printer%20spare%20parts/PH/F173050_1.png Epson nozzle arrangement for the DX5 or 6 | 15:38 |
| kanzure | fenn: i am going to be near nashua soon maybe i should stop by their place and snap pics | 15:38 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: a nozzle is where the ink gets push out of the head by a piezo or thermal actuator (or Mems) | 15:39 |
| chris_99 | is there a piezo per nozzle | 15:39 |
| chris_99 | or only per colour | 15:39 |
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| CaptHindsight | chris_99: with piezo yes, it's one piezo per nozzle | 15:40 |
| kanzure | there is a piezo per nozzle | 15:40 |
| kanzure | a better question would be "does the control circuitry allow individual piezo control" | 15:40 |
| xtalmath | kanzure: if I were you, I would require the person to receive equipment for microfabrication project to have close access to analysis tool, STM or SEM or ... with a short feedback loop improvements on the fabrication device will be quantifiable | 15:40 |
| kanzure | xtalmath: agreed | 15:41 |
| kanzure | fenn: also pick me a place to buy a machine shop | 15:41 |
| fenn | ugh haven't we been over this already | 15:41 |
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| kanzure | or move in with CaptHindsight | 15:41 |
| CaptHindsight | http://www.rpsa.ricoh.com/aboutinkjet.html how grey scale works with piezo heads | 15:42 |
| fenn | kanzure what's wrong with les's place? | 15:42 |
| kanzure | didn't he kick you out? | 15:42 |
| kanzure | i don't remember | 15:42 |
| kanzure | oh you mean his other place | 15:42 |
| fenn | i mean using his woodworking shop as a machine shop | 15:42 |
| fenn | i don't care about the house | 15:43 |
| xtalmath | kanzure: I do have a crazy idea for trying to make a high frame rate STM though | 15:43 |
| kanzure | fenn: at this point i think it would be better for me to just pay for a real place, my rules | 15:43 |
| xtalmath | kanzure: but I already have the fpga and piezo's needed to try and experiment | 15:43 |
| xtalmath | i am just a lazy bastard in the end | 15:44 |
| kanzure | then you should be destroyed</jrayhawk> | 15:44 |
| fenn | laziness++ | 15:44 |
| xtalmath | well lazy may be wrong word, slow because of too many parallel ideas/projects | 15:45 |
| fenn | projects++ | 15:45 |
| fenn | now you have more projects | 15:45 |
| CaptHindsight | a micromachineshop shouldn't take up much space | 15:45 |
| kanzure | something like the size of a fish tub should work | 15:46 |
| xtalmath | CaptHindsight: I agree | 15:46 |
| xtalmath | yes, and just use fish tank tubing air filters as substitute for HEPA | 15:46 |
| chris_99 | CaptHindsight, https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/inkjet/ink.png i was bored earlier and recorded the sound from printing some black horizontal stripes, at least theres some pretty patterns in the FFT ;) | 15:47 |
| kanzure | er isn't that the servos though | 15:47 |
| xtalmath | ah now I remember why the fast STM project is stalled, I still got to order one of those video ADCs to connect to the fpga | 15:47 |
| xtalmath | chris_99: do you have the original sound file? | 15:48 |
| chris_99 | yup | 15:48 |
| xtalmath | you recorded at what sample rate? | 15:48 |
| chris_99 | 44kHz | 15:48 |
| xtalmath | audible | 15:48 |
| xtalmath | oh | 15:48 |
| xtalmath | well put the file online | 15:48 |
| xtalmath | Ill try some simple DSP tricks | 15:48 |
| CaptHindsight | chris_99: you need to know position and how the print is interlaced | 15:49 |
| gradstudentbot | I am kind of curious what he has a Ph.D. in, I can't really find this anywhere, it could be underwater basket weaving for all I know. | 15:49 |
| chris_99 | i've got a video which shows it printing | 15:49 |
| chris_99 | https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/inkjet/MVI_0431.MOV | 15:49 |
| xtalmath | chris_99: just the audio? | 15:49 |
| CaptHindsight | gradstudentbot: is that like a teaching degree? | 15:49 |
| gradstudentbot | I don't know whether I am Turing dreaming that I am a machine, or a machine dreaming that I am Turing! | 15:49 |
| chris_99 | i can upload that too xtalmath, sec | 15:49 |
| chris_99 | https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/inkjet/audio1.wav | 15:50 |
| gradstudentbot | Wow, I'm definitely not including this data in the paper. | 15:51 |
| kanzure | .botsnack | 15:52 |
| yoleaux | :D | 15:52 |
| chris_99 | heh | 15:53 |
| CaptHindsight | http://www.ebay.com/itm/MORI-SEIKI-MV-35-40-3-AXIS-CNC-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-/121716130026 $5k or best, make all your own parts | 15:54 |
| xtalmath | why such a large CNC? | 15:54 |
| kanzure | does the control panel really need to be on a swivel arm. is that really necessary. | 15:55 |
| xtalmath | I have a small 400 euro one | 15:55 |
| xtalmath | well, still have to add CNC, thats one of reasons I got a 3D printer, to make the mounting for the steppers | 15:55 |
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| CaptHindsight | kanzure: yeah, since you want to move it around to load/unload the bed and operate from different positions | 15:57 |
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| kanzure | it should be located behind the wall that protects the human from the machine's death spinners | 15:59 |
| xtalmath | what are you going to make with that? | 16:01 |
| CaptHindsight | all sorts of fun stuff | 16:02 |
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| kanzure | WAFFLES from lesswrong suggests a "save a life" cryonics scheme: if anyone doesn't actually believe in cryonics then they should go through the insurance applications process and they should take out a policy in someone else's name. | 16:04 |
| kanzure | which doesn't make sense because why would someone else believing otherwise make it more likely to work? hehe | 16:04 |
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| xtalmath | kanzure: it must be bayesian | 16:09 |
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| fenn | xtalmath: you could just make stepper mounts with the mill itself?? | 16:15 |
| fenn | (question marks because how could you not realize that) | 16:16 |
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| xtalmath | fenn: I expect to make mistakes, and its easier to design and print plastic? | 16:17 |
| xtalmath | also, I am not experienced at milling, so manual control is not my cup of tea | 16:18 |
| xtalmath | I also dont want to damage the translation stages, so I prefer plastic | 16:18 |
| xtalmath | but tips and advice are certainly welcome, if you think I should mill it | 16:19 |
| fenn | i don't understand what you mean "i don't want to damage the translations tages" | 16:20 |
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| kanzure | aren't these mounts like two holes and that's it | 16:22 |
| fenn | yeah you can basically just use a piece of threaded rod and a coupling nut | 16:23 |
| fenn | i think this is a good simple design http://www.truetex.com/ymount.htm | 16:25 |
| fenn | machining ballscrews is the hard part | 16:25 |
| fenn | and if you have somehow magically acquired ballscrews that fit your machine perfectly, you probably got them in a cnc conversion kit and it comes with motor mounts too | 16:26 |
| xtalmath | fenn: my machine is much smaller than that its a micromill, let me look it up | 16:27 |
| xtalmath | proxxon MF 70 | 16:27 |
| xtalmath | http://www.proxxon.com/en/micromot/27110.php?list | 16:28 |
| fenn | i figured it was something like that, but the same principles apply | 16:28 |
| fenn | blech | 16:28 |
| xtalmath | yeah, obviously the couple of holes for the stepper are not hard, but more like how to connect it to the mill base, and translation stage | 16:29 |
| fenn | there are screw holes there already | 16:29 |
| xtalmath | yes | 16:29 |
| xtalmath | I guess I will use those :) | 16:30 |
| fenn | z axis is kinda wonky because of the rounded corners | 16:30 |
| fenn | ugh | 16:30 |
| xtalmath | theres 4 allen bolts there | 16:30 |
| fenn | is the z column cap made of plastic or metal? | 16:30 |
| xtalmath | plastic I think | 16:31 |
| xtalmath | wait | 16:31 |
| xtalmath | yes plastic | 16:31 |
| fenn | ok maybe you can just remove it and mount directly to the column somehow | 16:32 |
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| fenn | surely others have done this before | 16:32 |
| xtalmath | tbh, I have very little experience milling, and I don't even know say what the right tensioning needs to be | 16:32 |
| gradstudentbot | I am sponsored by the Beijing Genomics Institute. | 16:33 |
| xtalmath | or the order of tensioning the 3 nuts for a given axis | 16:33 |
| xtalmath | fenn: yes, but I am not familiar yet with metalworking, I should start from a box like the link you showed? | 16:33 |
| xtalmath | attach stepper with a coupler, or with a belt? | 16:33 |
| xtalmath | what power stepper do I need? | 16:34 |
| xtalmath | i suffer analysis paralysis :) | 16:34 |
| fenn | haha all of the cnc conversions online are total bodges because nobody with any fabrication competence would ever want this mill in the first place | 16:35 |
| fenn | xtalmath just steal the motors from your 3d printer | 16:37 |
| xtalmath | fenn: but I only just got the 3d printer | 16:37 |
| xtalmath | and want to make plastic micromanipulators | 16:37 |
| fenn | destroy! destroy! | 16:38 |
| xtalmath | I will get extra steppers dont worrry | 16:38 |
| kanzure | do you have enough space for your basic infrastructure project | 16:39 |
| fenn | i have roughly half of a 1-car garage to work with | 16:39 |
| kanzure | for how long? | 16:40 |
| fenn | as long as i'm here, or until the neighbor above gets pissed about the noise | 16:40 |
| kanzure | ok well show me a shopping cart of stuff to get and we should do that | 16:40 |
| fenn | it's not ideal | 16:40 |
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| CaptHindsight | kanzure: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carl-Zeiss-EM-109-Transmission-Electron-Microscope-TEM-1231/191647064682 | 16:48 |
| CaptHindsight | $950.00 | 16:48 |
| kanzure | "includes manual" nice | 16:48 |
| CaptHindsight | They said they were having some difficulty with it holding a vacuum, but decided to get a new one rather than repair it. | 16:49 |
| kanzure | sherman, texas | 16:49 |
| xtalmath | TEM is just $1000 ? | 16:51 |
| xtalmath | oh ok | 16:51 |
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| ParahSailin_ | fenn gets the synthesizer? | 18:19 |
| xtalmath | I just realized what electron spin is | 18:21 |
| xtalmath | I have to write a long paper | 18:21 |
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| kanzure | ParahSailin_: unless you want to tweak it | 19:52 |
| fenn | ParahSailin_: please take it | 20:34 |
| kanzure | i wonder how much greg egan costs | 20:37 |
| fenn | a large prime number | 20:37 |
| fenn | but you have to guess it exactly | 20:37 |
| kanzure | he probably has tenure somewhere, bleh | 20:38 |
| fenn | is genetic engineering legal in australia? | 20:39 |
| fenn | wow just when i thought the catholics were somewhat reasonable: | 20:41 |
| fenn | In moral evaluation a distinction must be made between strictly "therapeutic" manipulation, which aims to cure illnesses caused by genetic or chromosome anomalies (genetic therapy), from manipulation "altering" the human genetic patrimony. | 20:41 |
| fenn | A curative intervention, which is also called ‘genetic surgery,’ ‘will be considered desirable in principle, provided its purpose is the real promotion of the personal well-being of the individual, without damaging his integrity or worsening his condition of life. | 20:41 |
| fenn | On the other hand, interventions which are not directly curative, the purpose of which is 'the production of human beings selected according to sex or other predetermined qualities,' which change the genotype of the individual and of the human species, 'are contrary to the personal dignity of the human being, to his integrity and to his identity. | 20:41 |
| fenn | Therefore they can be in no way justified on the pretext that they will produce some beneficial results for humanity in the future,' 'no social or scientific usefulness and no ideological purpose could ever justify an intervention on the human genome unless it be therapeutic, that is its finality must be the natural development of the human being.' | 20:41 |
| fenn | -- Charter for Health Care Workers, 12 | 20:41 |
| kanzure | "personal dignity" my ass | 20:41 |
| fenn | "GMOs classified as low risk include knockout mice as long as the modification does not confer an advantage to the animal" | 20:44 |
| fenn | WADA strikes again~ | 20:44 |
| fenn | protecting the mouse olympics from unethical behavior | 20:44 |
| kanzure | "this is buffy, my pet mouse" (mouse barks) | 20:45 |
| kanzure | a shortcut argument for nuking calls for regulation is that you could claim such overbearing rules are similar to eugenics ("preserving the current genetic order") | 20:47 |
| fenn | human engineering legality map: http://i.4cdn.org/int/1439700900248.png | 20:47 |
| fenn | kanzure nobody would go for that | 20:47 |
| fenn | they already equate genetic engineering with eugenics | 20:47 |
| kanzure | http://i.4cdn.org/int/1439700900248.png cannot be crawled or saved due to robots.txt | 20:48 |
| kanzure | i have been trying to view most hplusroadmap links through the internet archive because that's the only safe way to browse the web without being completely vulnerable to time travel | 20:48 |
| fenn | uh ok | 20:49 |
| kanzure | specifically: it would really suck to look over the log in the future and find absolutely none of the links work | 20:49 |
| fenn | that is 100% going to happen | 20:49 |
| kanzure | sometimes you can get by with filenames but that cdn link is practically gone forever already | 20:49 |
| fenn | average lifetime of a link is now like 6 months | 20:49 |
| kanzure | greg egan's short stories have too much dialog for my taste | 20:54 |
| fenn | why don't you write some greg egan fanfiction then | 20:55 |
| fenn | all the nerds are doin it | 20:55 |
| kanzure | i do have a ~/my-docs/scifi/ collection but i want to give it some more time | 20:55 |
| kanzure | .title http://security.cs.rpi.edu/courses/hwre-spring2014/ | 21:02 |
| yoleaux | CSCI 4974 / 6974 Hardware Reverse Engineering | 21:02 |
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| kanzure | hmph | 21:39 |
| xtalmath | kanzure what is a cdn link? | 22:09 |
| yashgaroth | .wik content distribution network | 22:14 |
| yoleaux | "A content delivery network or content distribution network (CDN) is a large distributed system of servers deployed in multiple data centers across the Internet." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_distribution_network | 22:14 |
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| xtalmath | so basically, a URL | 22:25 |
| xtalmath | an internet link | 22:25 |
| justanotheruser | umm | 22:28 |
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| yashgaroth | CDNs are optimized for hosting content that is actively being heavily viewed on another website; in the case of 4cdn.org, for example, that would be 4chan, which has an exceptionally short lifetime for content, though the principle applies broadly | 22:31 |
| yashgaroth | a cdn is not intended to be a permanent store of e.g. an image, unlike other forms of hosting | 22:32 |
| yashgaroth | I'm sure a more computer person could explain it better and with fewer adverbs but apparently you're stuck with me | 22:35 |
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| justanotheruser | thought vectors | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Sat Aug 22 00:00:05 2015 | ||
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