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| archels | .g "The Company of Biologists" | 07:31 |
|---|---|---|
| yoleaux | http://ipv6.google.com/sorry/IndexRedirect?continue=http://www.google.com/search%3F%26q%3D%2522The%2520Company%2520of%2520Biologists%2522%26btnI%3D&q=CGMSECoBBPgCAXIwAAAAAAAIaucYl56xrwUiGQDxp4NLwwQ57TWzuQ-6K4wO3w9GMaz_3x4 | 07:31 |
| archels | The Company of Biologists is a not-for-profit publisher and UK charity. Established in 1925, The Company aims to promote research and study across all branches of biology. | 07:32 |
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| archels | "The colorbars for all subplots A–D are perceptually balanced (Niccoli, 2010)." | 07:57 |
| archels | spotted in the wild. :o | 07:58 |
| kanzure | borp | 08:13 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.reddit.com/r/LessWrong/comments/3jsc0g/scott_adams_confused_boltzmann_brains_with_a/ | 08:40 |
| yoleaux | Scott Adams confused Boltzmann Brains with a solipsistic version of the simulation hypothesis. Kinda amusing. : LessWrong | 08:40 |
| kanzure | this community is worthless | 08:40 |
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| andytoshi | that's very irritating, i'm surprised gwern can put up with it | 08:49 |
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| FourFire | kanzure, "xkcd.com/774" | 09:00 |
| FourFire | also "Could you be a little more smug, please? We need it for an experiment." | 09:00 |
| kanzure | "Datahand patents are from <1995, so are now expired." | 09:07 |
| chris_99 | have you tried one of those datahand things? | 09:07 |
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| FourFire | looks interesting, does it have a steeper learning curve than touchtyping? | 09:09 |
| chris_99 | i want to try one a stenotype | 09:12 |
| chris_99 | s/one/ | 09:12 |
| kanzure | i think jaydugger has tried a data hand but no i haven't | 09:14 |
| kanzure | not very interested either, it doesn't seem particularly faster.. | 09:14 |
| chris_99 | yeah someone on HN mentioned about it being slowish | 09:14 |
| chris_99 | although that would depend on the typist | 09:14 |
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| FourFire | Im interested in the relative learning curve compared to standard keyboards | 09:15 |
| FourFire | if it is faster a lower profeciency then it | 09:15 |
| FourFire | 's a productivity tool for slow typers | 09:15 |
| FourFire | (like myself) | 09:16 |
| FourFire | If you're near or over 200WPM, then maybe the easiest speed boost would be a decent BCI | 09:17 |
| kanzure | uh? most brain-computer interfaces have a bandwidth of like a few bits per second at most. nowhere near an improvement in speed. | 09:17 |
| FourFire | that's why I said decent | 09:18 |
| chris_99 | has anyone looked into EMG in a slightly related note, re. inner speech | 09:18 |
| FourFire | all of the one's I've seen are terrible from a UI perspective | 09:18 |
| kanzure | "ui" is not the reason why they are slow | 09:18 |
| FourFire | chris_99, not yet, I will once I get my BCI project underway | 09:18 |
| Stskeeps | chris_99: best ones are EMG with electrodes on multiple points face and throat, so not very market friendly | 09:18 |
| chris_99 | yeah Stskeeps | 09:19 |
| chris_99 | that's what i meant round the neck | 09:19 |
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| Stskeeps | more a fan of non-audible murmur recognition, while not as cool as BCI, it serves a lot of the same purposes.. | 09:19 |
| Stskeeps | ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5dVILReCHQ ) | 09:20 |
| kanzure | .title | 09:20 |
| yoleaux | NAM (Non-Audible Murmur) Microphone from the Nara Institute of Science and Technology : DigInfo - YouTube | 09:20 |
| gradstudentbot | I think the centrifuge is broken. | 09:20 |
| FourFire | yeah, whatever the means, a thing which can increase the potential productivity of the top percentiles of hackers without substantial cost is very worth making | 09:20 |
| chris_99 | hmm they are speaking in that demo though | 09:20 |
| Stskeeps | chris_99: sure, but with sub-whisper volume | 09:20 |
| Stskeeps | so others cannot hear it, like a silent prayer | 09:21 |
| Stskeeps | or murmuring to yourself about idiotic coworkers | 09:21 |
| chris_99 | lol | 09:21 |
| chris_99 | i thought EMG seems more interesting, in the papers where theres no speaking and people are just reading a book in their head | 09:21 |
| chris_99 | and it can extract a small no. of words | 09:21 |
| kanzure | "that's why i'm always humming c minor while i'm reading" | 09:22 |
| FourFire | someone I know mentioned using toe muscles in conjunction with emg to... well type | 09:22 |
| Stskeeps | it is, but until we get everybody to wear guy fawkes masks with electrodes inside, or it becomes socially acceptable to have EMG tattoo stickers on your throat and face.. | 09:22 |
| chris_99 | haha kanzure | 09:22 |
| Stskeeps | FourFire: oh that's new | 09:22 |
| FourFire | we have a whole set of digits which we mostly don't use etc. | 09:23 |
| chris_99 | heh interesting, do they wiggle their toes then to type | 09:23 |
| FourFire | I haven't seen it in action | 09:23 |
| FourFire | The guy had some fun trolling coworkers, typing hands free... | 09:24 |
| FourFire | "how are you typing" "with my mind" etc. | 09:24 |
| FourFire | Stskeeps, well, how long did it take for bluetooth handsfree devices to become acceptable | 09:25 |
| FourFire | now if the productivity impact is larger than that, how long will it take then? | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | FourFire: google glass shows people are a bit picky about the face :) | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | tue | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | true | 09:26 |
| gradstudentbot | I have this really good idea. I just can't get it to work. | 09:26 |
| FourFire | Stskeeps, IIRC GlassHoles was about the camera and covert on/off control | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | FourFire: i think it was more than that, personally, camera is just one aspect | 09:26 |
| FourFire | mhm, glass probably wasn't a very great product usability wise, but then it was a prototype | 09:27 |
| maaku | co-worker of mine wanted to go around taking abrupt in-your-face shots of Glass wearers in public, and immediately post to twitter as #2CanPlay | 09:28 |
| maaku | i still think it's a good idea | 09:28 |
| kanzure | what's wrong with abrupt-in-your-face shots? i don't get it. | 09:28 |
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| maaku | Most people don't appreciate random strangers catching you off-guard, taking a photo, and sharing it with the world, all without your permission (yet they'll happily do that via Glass) | 09:30 |
| kanzure | maaku: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afm-DL75E00 | 09:30 |
| maaku | man, i watched that whole thing waiting for someone to be caught picking their nose | 09:31 |
| maaku | severely disappointed | 09:31 |
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| FourFire | maaku, seen that short of RMS eating toe goo? | 09:41 |
| FourFire | while lecturing no less | 09:41 |
| maaku | haha wow, no | 09:41 |
| kanzure | http://www.overcomingbias.com/2015/09/monster-pumps.html "The new finding is that local metabolism also goes as local biomass density to the power of roughly 3/4, over at least three orders of magnitude. This implies that life in dense areas like jungles is just slower and lazier on average than is life in sparse areas like deserts. And this implies that the ratio of predator to prey biomass is smaller in jungles compared to deserts. - ... | 09:58 |
| kanzure | ... See more at: http://www.overcomingbias.com/2015/09/monster-pumps.html#sthash.RTYBaWVt.dpuf" | 09:58 |
| kanzure | ah those fuckheads use javascript copypaste spam, robin hanson deserves to die | 09:58 |
| justanotheruser | I believe richard stallman dancing to soulja boy is on topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pube5Aynsls | 10:00 |
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| ParahSailin | http://www.poetryfoundation.org/harriet/2011/04/the-xenotext-works/ | 10:28 |
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| kanzure | hm | 13:53 |
| heath | ? | 14:00 |
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| heath | who is physically building the first dna synthesizer, nsh, fenn, CaptHindsight? | 14:15 |
| * nsh emotes unknowledge | 14:16 | |
| heath | not seeing notes in dna/synthesis | 14:16 |
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| FourFire | heath, kanzure has been discussing it a lot, inkjet printer and so on | 15:05 |
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| justanotheruser | first? Hasn't it already been built by IBM? First for ##hplusroadmap? | 15:19 |
| kanzure | probably not ibm | 15:30 |
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| delinquentme | probability of making money from playing games: LoL or SC2 ? | 16:23 |
| delinquentme | which do you think has more earning potential | 16:23 |
| justanotheruser | hmm, for some reason I imagined IBM made the POSaM | 16:30 |
| yashgaroth | ISB | 16:31 |
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| kanzure | eh i'm sure ibm has done something biotech-ish.. probably.. | 16:37 |
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| justanotheruser | considering going to montreal | 16:47 |
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| kanzure | justanotheruser: everyone else is.. | 17:04 |
| kanzure | but too many andrews already | 17:05 |
| justanotheruser | hmm | 17:10 |
| justanotheruser | peolstra | 17:10 |
| justanotheruser | all I've got | 17:10 |
| justanotheruser | though amiller may be andrew | 17:11 |
| kanzure | amiller is an andrew | 17:11 |
| justanotheruser | also don't hilight poelstra and let him see how I butchered his name | 17:11 |
| * justanotheruser loads asic-faq.pdf to see how far off he is | 17:12 | |
| andytoshi | justanotheruser: i highlight on 'andrew' and 'poelstra' :) | 17:12 |
| andytoshi | you got it tho | 17:12 |
| justanotheruser | heh | 17:13 |
| andytoshi | (btw don't worry about highlighting me on 'andrew', that triggers constantly and i need to remove it anyway) | 17:13 |
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| justanotheruser | Considering going, though I will probably end up telling the same "Oh, I'm just another user" joke 4000 times | 17:14 |
| kanzure | you don't have any other material? | 17:14 |
| justanotheruser | yeah, but the first step to introducing yourself is mentioning your alias | 17:15 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: they stopped selling tickets. just show up and walk in. | 17:29 |
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| justanotheruser | and pay $300 | 17:46 |
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| kanzure | i mean they stopped selling a few minutes ago | 17:47 |
| kanzure | (for some reason i am part of the organizing committee? i don't understand) | 17:47 |
| justanotheruser | Can I still get in with the $300? | 17:47 |
| justanotheruser | "places are limited" | 17:48 |
| justanotheruser | It says after Sep 9th, so I assumed I could procastinate until then | 17:48 |
| kanzure | now would be a good time to email them about it | 17:49 |
| justanotheruser | will do | 17:49 |
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| * heath assumes kanzure will be taking notes | 18:05 | |
| heath | nothing like reaching your limts on google business and your partner is at burning man for a week | 18:10 |
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| kanzure | .title http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2015/08/06/0956797615594896 | 18:56 |
| yoleaux | Sustained Attention Across the Life Span in a Sample of 10,000 | 18:57 |
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| kanzure | _hanhart_: hi | 19:12 |
| kanzure | and m0b | 19:12 |
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| kanzure | https://cireneikual.wordpress.com/2015/09/03/htsl2-evolving-the-neocortex-and-human-like-reinforcement-learning/ | 20:00 |
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| kanzure | so much snarks | 21:16 |
| fenn | obviously setting up a snark arbitration exchange is the correct thing to do | 21:20 |
| kanzure | one of the snark people wrote a snarks library called "snarkfront" | 21:21 |
| kanzure | which i think would make a good name for an improv group | 21:22 |
| fenn | snarktank | 21:22 |
| fenn | get a bunch of investors to pillory bad business plans | 21:22 |
| kanzure | draft of my next weekend's montreal presentation http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/scaling-review-draft.v2.pdf | 21:23 |
| fenn | it would be good to have an html version of your notes so the rest of the world doesn't have to read every mailing list post ever | 21:25 |
| kanzure | output was yaml bookmarks not notes | 21:26 |
| fenn | good enough | 21:26 |
| kanzure | i am putting off "make the yaml bookmarks presentable to mere mortals" until after i am done powerpointing | 21:27 |
| fenn | yeah | 21:27 |
| fenn | but you should put a link to it in your powerpoint (on the last slide) | 21:28 |
| justanotheruser | so how long does it take you to go through every single 6.0 post? | 21:28 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: ~10 hours? | 21:28 |
| fenn | instead of "Thank You." in giant letters | 21:28 |
| kanzure | fenn: my obligatory joke comment for the "upload everyone to a cloud, simulate their transaction activity, problem solved" is to mention that "ralph merkle actually has some plans here, so make of that what you will"... since everyone knows ralph merkle for the wrong reasons in this community. | 21:28 |
| justanotheruser | I guess you don't need to look at all the posts based on the title | 21:29 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: correct | 21:29 |
| kanzure | "HELP I HAVE GCC PROBLEM" is not likely to contain cosmological wisdom | 21:29 |
| fenn | well markets are just computation devices right | 21:29 |
| fenn | where did my bag of snarks go | 21:29 |
| kanzure | next to your bag of triangles | 21:29 |
| kanzure | or is that something else.. | 21:30 |
| fenn | it was under the mattress next to the bag of fucks | 21:30 |
| fenn | jk i would never use a mattress | 21:31 |
| kanzure | markets are not very interesting computation devices | 21:32 |
| fenn | i much prefer Cyberchile or whatever the communists had in 1973 | 21:33 |
| fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn | 21:33 |
| kanzure | merkle should have made up a fake origin story about his puzzles, like "well i was thinking about how to make molecular nanotechnology" or something. | 21:33 |
| kanzure | or "i was trying to reassemble a cryonically stored person from small parts" | 21:36 |
| fenn | how to disassemble and reassemble a camel to fit through the needle-eye gates of heaven | 21:37 |
| kanzure | "And one night I was contemplating how it is that... What was the problem that I was considering specifically? I think I was trying to figure out the problem of you're trying to log into a computer in some secure fashion and the computer security has been compromised and has since been sealed up again. I was trying to figure out how to re-establish secure communications. And as I was thinking about it, it basically occurred to me that I ... | 21:39 |
| kanzure | ... was unable to prove that full disclosure of the complete state both of the computer and of the person communicating with it (and presumably they would have a terminal with which they were communicating with a computer) it occurred to me that I was unable to prove that under those circumstances, security would necessarily be compromised. So I began trying to figure out, was there some way of showing clearly that if you compromised ... | 21:39 |
| kanzure | ... both computer and the terminal which was communicating with the computer, whether you could then prove that in the absence of some secure channel, some secret channel like a courier, whether you could prove that in fact security had been compromised. And as I thought about it, I realized that not only could I not prove it, it was not even clear that it was correct. So I began thinking about it, and then over the next few days I ... | 21:40 |
| kanzure | ... figured out the puzzles technique." | 21:40 |
| kanzure | well that's fairly straightforward and disappointing | 21:40 |
| kanzure | from http://web.archive.org/web/20070311022139/http://www.itas.fzk.de/mahp/weber/merkle.htm | 21:40 |
| kanzure | "The first realization, of course, was that if both the computer and the terminal were deterministic, then of course you could compromise the system, if you knew the initial state and you knew the traffic over the communications line. So I fairly quickly concluded that there had to be some random component. And then it was simply a question of how to utilize that random component in a way which would provide confusion to the eavesdropper ... | 21:40 |
| kanzure | ... that would grow more rapidly than the confusion of either the two parties communicating." | 21:40 |
| justanotheruser | dank all the things meme | 21:42 |
| justanotheruser | "send me your backlog" | 21:43 |
| fenn | is dank a verb now? | 21:43 |
| justanotheruser | no, it's an adjective | 21:44 |
| justanotheruser | dank "all the things" meme | 21:44 |
| fenn | archive fail: http://the-digital-reader.com/2015/07/16/digital-archival-site-longacess-shuts-down-youll-need-to-find-a-new-way-to-gift-your-ebook-collection-to-your-heirs/ | 21:47 |
| kanzure | the interviewer just totally tuned out the moment that ralph merkle mentioned nanotechnology -____- | 21:48 |
| kanzure | justanotheruser: it's called a draft for a reason, you know... | 21:51 |
| justanotheruser | it seems fine except you joke about DHTs then you say they may be an ingredient, that may be leaving some listeners confused unless you verbally clarify | 21:51 |
| kanzure | there's nothing wrong with using DHTs, but "just use a DHT" is not a solution to "scaling bitcoin" | 21:53 |
| justanotheruser | right | 21:54 |
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| fenn | kanzure: i have to say it, there should be a slide addressing "just increase the blocksize" since this is about scalability | 22:18 |
| fenn | scaling proposals | 22:18 |
| fenn | oh nm it's on page 22 | 22:19 |
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| kanzure | it's just going to be a handwaving slide, like the sidechains slide and like the lightning network slides | 22:24 |
| kanzure | i have no interest in reiterating all of this junk: http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June/008603.html | 22:24 |
| kanzure | plus, the community has already been spending a bunch of time reviewing those proposals, like bip100, bip101, bip102, .. bip105, etc. | 22:25 |
| fenn | "For illustration of the innovative environment Merkle was in, see the picture of a nuclear powered ramjet his father was working on" | 22:25 |
| fenn | where's my nuclear ramjet jetpack | 22:26 |
| fenn | kanzure i was just attempting to head off the inevitable "but what about blocksize" question | 22:27 |
| fenn | hopefully your presentation will sufficiently convey the number of dimensions in which scaling is a problem | 22:28 |
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| kanzure | "committing transactions to a database" is the wrong model anyway | 22:32 |
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| kanzure | as long as the rules are followed, the actual transactions don't really matter | 22:32 |
| fenn | are you a deontologist~ | 22:34 |
| kanzure | i'm a philosoraptor | 22:34 |
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| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone. | 22:35 |
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| kanzure | 18:33:25 <tacotime_> You can provide withness for executed code without executing the code yourself to verify it? | 22:37 |
| kanzure | 18:34:21 <gmaxwell> tacotime_: Yes, thats what a snark is, a proof that code was fairthfully executed which is logarithmic in the length of the exeuction (or smaller, with cryptographic assumptions they can be constant size in the security parameter) | 22:37 |
| kanzure | http://courses.cs.washington.edu/courses/cse533/05au/pcp-history.pdf | 22:37 |
| fenn | "God had intentionally created Raptor Jesus to preach to the dinosaur people and show them the light. However, his early teachings did not go over well with the dinosauric people" | 22:39 |
| kanzure | "imagine you have a system which can prove the validity of two operations: executing a single instruction AND verifying a proof that the prior state for that instruction. If the proof verficiation is randomized/probablistic, then its not surprising that the proof size can be proportional to security rather than execution size... and then you nest these operations and get a constant size proof. (bootstrapping approach) ... Efficient ... | 22:42 |
| kanzure | ... systems don't work directly in this way, but its an intutive way to see the possiblity." | 22:42 |
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| fenn | mugshots in a math review are distracting | 22:44 |
| kanzure | "why do all of these people have faces?" | 22:44 |
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| fenn | one of them doesn't have a face | 22:45 |
| kanzure | might be your color scheme | 22:46 |
| fenn | yes the faces are more creepy in inverted colors | 22:46 |
| fenn | is this "bootstrapping approach" just memoizing previous computations in a verifiable way? | 22:48 |
| kanzure | 18:43:17 <gmaxwell> Really the major breakthrough that allows sublinear is bootstrapping, which I think was mostly really inspired by the FHE work. | 22:49 |
| kanzure | (fully homomorphic encryption stuff, i assume) | 22:49 |
| fenn | but it does the same thing as memoizing, practically speaking | 22:49 |
| kanzure | i am currently operating at pasted logs understanding | 22:50 |
| fenn | .wik memoizing | 22:50 |
| yoleaux | "In computing, memoization is an optimization technique used primarily to speed up computer programs by storing the results of expensive function calls and returning the cached result when the same inputs occur again." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoizing | 22:50 |
| kanzure | it might be this: http://people.xiph.org/~greg/simple_verifyable_execution.txt | 22:51 |
| justanotheruser | kanzure: do you understand the math in the snark paper | 22:52 |
| fenn | oh, keeping inputs to the computation secret is a pain | 22:52 |
| justanotheruser | pinnochio | 22:52 |
| kanzure | haven't looked at pinnochio paper | 22:52 |
| kanzure | i can understand most math eventually, but my big problems are things like "keeping stuff cached" and on-the-fly reconstruction of sensible things... | 22:52 |
| kanzure | also because i haven't spent much time looking :-( | 22:53 |
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