2015-09-29.log

--- Log opened Tue Sep 29 00:00:42 2015
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kanzurebeep04:21
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fennit's kind of embarrassing reading the backlog in #linuxcnc where justanotheruser doesn't have any clue what makes a good machine tool04:28
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fenni've been holding the hand of someone who acquired a used shapeoko as he fixes it04:32
fennthe ways are aluminum so you can't use anything harder than aluminum for the wheels, which means the wheels are made of plastic and wear quickly, thus losing even the semblance of accuracy it had from the original bolting-together04:33
fennthe whole shapeoko design is bad, and i'm willing to break down exactly why it sucks, if anyone cares04:34
fennbut please stop trying to make "a cnc" out of extruded aluminum04:38
fennthis looks like about the right way to do it:04:59
fenn.title http:youtu.be/ZhICrb0Tbn404:59
yoleauxfenn: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed.04:59
fenn.title http://youtu.be/ZhICrb0Tbn404:59
yoleauxHobbing (Gear cutting) on a Mini-Mill with EMC2 - YouTube04:59
fennyou can also make an angled rotary axis to fit on a lathe toolpost, it doesn't even need a motor in many cases, just the action of the hob will spin the gear blank05:00
kanzurei believe he was interested in reasons why it was bad, or obviously-better alternatives05:12
kanzure(frankly i'm just proud he's even bothering)05:13
kanzurepeer pressure works!05:13
fennwell machining is a specialized industrial craft and gear making is even more specialized subset of that05:14
fennjust the gear cutting nomenclature takes a while to learn05:14
fennand at the end of the day, you can just buy gears05:15
fenni do think it's worth making your own timing pulleys, those things are way overpriced for what they are05:16
kanzurehttp://finder.nhipulleys.com/05:18
fennthose are not timing pulleys05:20
kanzureagreed.05:21
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kanzure"SOX17 Is a Critical Specifier of Human Primordial Germ Cell Fate" http://www.cell.com/cell/abstract/S0092-8674(14)01583-906:09
kanzurefor artificial uterus reproduction, should select for embryos that are able to survive the artificial uterus (and somewhat iterating on the device too), instead of only pandering to all of the requirements of currently-available embryos and their current genetic program.06:17
kanzure06:19 < Betawolf> no, wait, you could just freeze a load of them and introduce them to your tweaked uterus06:20
kanzure06:20 < kanzure> perhaps- but embryos themselves might have guards against "oops i am in a womb with 20 other embryos, none of us will survive, abort abort"06:20
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kanzuremachinist bitcoiner we should stalk: https://www.reddit.com/user/SadieD06:37
kanzurere: artificial womb plans above; nutrient problems will be catastrophic, so each stage of growth should be validated by comparing against typical in utero growth results. any deviations should be carefully tracked because otherwise you may end up with brain damage.06:41
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kanzure(and it's harder to do selection for embryos that don't end up with brain damage, because the brain damage is only noticeable near the later stages, so the timeline is extended and selection frequency has to go down)06:42
kanzurenot sure how to deal with placenta substitute06:43
Betawolfis there a reason you're not just growing a uterus first?06:45
fenngrow a pair06:45
kanzuregrowing a uterus is hard06:45
kanzureand afaik we can't currently do that06:46
Betawolfengineering one might be harder, you have to manage all the hormone controls and the bits which assume there's a larger bloodstream to manipulate a host through06:46
kanzurei believe we already have working embryo development up to some number of days (more than one day of development), so selection could continue from that point06:47
kanzurebut i see your point; would probably be easier to start with some non-human species too.06:47
Betawolflegally, certainly06:48
Betawolfalso in terms of gestation length06:48
Betawolfthe fallback of mice would be fairly good there, and mice-human generalisability is probably well-studied06:49
kanzure"A comparison of placental development and endocrine functions between the human and mouse model" http://humupd.oxfordjournals.org/content/9/6/531.full.pdf06:49
Betawolfalso, marketable -- an artificial mouse uterus could be valuable to other researchers by itself06:50
kanzurethat's not as useful06:50
BetawolfI guess, mice are pretty cheap06:51
kanzurebetter link http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.325.4526&rep=rep1&type=pdf06:51
Betawolfbut the ability to manipulate in-utero development with more precision would be good06:51
kanzureah so, in utero electroporation isn't enough for you?06:52
Betawolfhadn't heard of that, looking it up, perhaps it negates the benefits here.06:56
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archels"1st IEEE IROS Futurist Forum"07:20
archelsam I going to go to this tomorrow?07:20
archelshttp://www.iros2015.org/index.php/program/futurist-forum07:20
maakuwhy would you go to it?07:25
archelswell, I'm trying to pick the least boring talks to go to07:26
kanzureepistemology stuff is sometimes fun, but "future of society and cognition" does not sound like an epistemology thing07:27
kanzure"Reconstructed Brain Models for Virtual Bodies and Robots" talks about human brain project robotics platform thingy07:28
maakufuturist events are places for peoplele hwo don't do anything to feel better about someone else doing the work :(07:28
maakuthe real question is who is going and whether it is worth going to corner them in the hallways07:29
kanzurealso the stuff under "2nd International Workshop on Aerial Open Source Robotics" looks interesting07:29
kanzurehttps://ras.papercept.net/conferences/conferences/IROS15/program/IROS15_ProgramAtAGlanceWeb.html#mowsafternoon-2207:29
kanzuremaybe "Real-Time Cognitive Computing for Service Robots"07:30
fennisn't "cognitive computing" an ibm trademark07:31
archelsthat one's already in the past, I went for the Bremen University lab tours instead07:32
archelsdefinitely going to Gewaltig's plenary, but the other talks so far have kindof disappointed07:32
kanzure"Unmanned Aerial Systems 1/2" or "Surgical Robots 1/2" or "Manipulation Planning and Control 1/2" or "Biologically-Inspired Robots 1/2" or "Joint/Mechanism Design" all look somewhat tolerable07:32
archelsthere's lots of robot hardware here (pics later), but the control of it all is pretty shit07:33
archelsI think my expectations are too high07:33
kanzure"wearable robots"07:34
kanzure"Space Robotics and Automation"07:34
kanzure"Actuation and Mechanism"07:34
kanzure"Robotics in Construction"07:34
kanzure"New Actuators"07:34
kanzure"Bioinspired Underwater Robotics"07:35
kanzurealright that's all i see07:35
archelsyeah had no idea underwater robotics was so big. But there's lots of money in it, obviously.07:36
fennit's a huge growth area07:37
archelsdid you know there's a fibre-based underwater 100 Mbps network off the West coast of the states, hundreds of kilometres into the pacific?07:37
fennonly 100Mbit?07:37
kanzurenew ed boyden stuff: http://syntheticneurobiology.org/publications07:38
cpopell4kanzure : biologically inspired unmanned aerial surgical robots07:39
archelsthere are junction boxes at set intervals that the ROVs, tethered to the ship, plug the robots into that they're releasing07:39
kanzure"Processes for design, construction and utilisation of arrays of light-emitting diodes and light-emitting diode-coupled optical fibres for multi-site brain light delivery" http://syntheticneurobiology.org/publications/publicationdetail/238/2507:40
kanzureoops bad link, i mean http://syntheticneurobiology.org/PDFs/15.05.bernstein.FULL.pdf07:40
kanzure"Transgenic Mice for Intersectional Targeting of Neural Sensors and Effectors with High Specificity and Performance" http://syntheticneurobiology.org/PDFs/15.03.madisen.FULL.pdf07:40
kanzure"Optogenetic activation of intracellular adenosine A2A receptor signaling in the hippocampus is sufficient to trigger CREB phosphorylation and impair memory" http://syntheticneurobiology.org/PDFs/15.07.li.pdf07:40
fenncpopell4: now you know what the harvard bee is for07:40
kanzure"Close-Packed Silicon Microelectrodes for Scalable Spatially Oversampled Neural Recording" http://syntheticneurobiology.org/publications/publicationdetail/234/2507:41
kanzuregah i keep doing that07:41
kanzurewanted http://syntheticneurobiology.org/PDFs/15.02.scholvin.pdf07:41
kanzure"A direct-to-drive neural data acquisition system" http://syntheticneurobiology.org/PDFs/15.09.kinney.pdf07:41
kanzureman.. what. how is that novel? that's so sad. we literally haven't had people dumping data from an ADC straight to storage?07:42
archelsbandwidth becomes a bit restrictive with the new ~10^3 contact site probes07:44
kanzurehttp://syntheticneurobiology.org/PDFs/15.05.guo.FULL.pdf "Cell-type specific expression is trivial to realize in laboratory animals, where Cre-loxP transgenic recombination systems used in conjunction with Cre-dependent viruses ensure that transcription of viral constructs are limited to the cell07:44
kanzuretype of interest[52]"07:44
kanzure[52] Madisen, L. et al. A toolbox of Cre-dependent optogenetic transgenic mice for light-induced activation and silencing, Nature  Neuroscience 15, 793–802 (2012)07:45
archelspeople messing around with PCI cards and so07:45
archelsafter they come to the realisation that USB is too slow07:45
kanzure[53] Dittgen, T. et al. Lentivirus-based genetic manipulations of cortical neurons and their optical and electrophysiological monitoring in vivo. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 101, 18206–18211 (2004).07:45
justanotheruserfenn: sorry to disappoint07:58
fennit's always surprising to find that people don't think the way you do08:01
fennwe don't have enough spare brain matter to simulate an entirely alien way of thought so it just loops back onto your normal mental process with some footnotes attached08:02
justanotheruserI have zero experience with machining08:05
justanotheruserlet me take that back, I watched someone cut some metal for me once08:05
justanotheruserhorizontally, no fancy shapes08:05
fennif you are interested in learning, the standard advice is to take a course at a night school or vocational college08:06
kanzurebring candy to the resident machinists employed by your university08:06
kanzureor pizza08:06
kanzurepizza is less weird08:06
fennshow up in a white van with lots of blankets in the back? (so the scrap metal doesn't scratch up the interior you pervs)08:07
maakuyeah actually taking a basic machine shop class is pretty enlightening08:07
maakuand relatively cheap at a community college, vocational school, or tech shop08:08
fenntech shop won't teach you the theory and practice08:08
justanotheruserDoes a standard class teach hobbing, milling, routing, and all the other important stuff?08:08
kanzureuniversity's machine shop probably does free training08:08
fennprobably not hobbing or routing08:08
justanotherusermhm08:08
kanzurewill be found below the mechanical engineering building08:08
fennthere is a whole crapton of knowledge beyond basic safety training08:08
fennit's not something you master in a weekend (or a lifetime)08:09
justanotheruserno machining or milling related club08:09
justanotheruserwe have a 3d printing club08:09
justanotheruserperhaps night school is the best option08:09
maakujustanotheruser: wouldn't expect there to be a club08:09
maakuas kanzure says, looks to the mechanical engineering dept08:10
fennphysics building sometimes has a shop but you probably need to be a grad student to use it08:10
justanotheruserWe have one in our research park, looking into training08:10
justanotherusernah, it looks like they just do work08:10
justanotheruserI'll see if the mechanical engineering dept has one08:11
fennanyway just poking your nose in and looking around will give you an idea of what works and what doesn't work08:11
justanotherusercheck out this retro page https://engineering.purdue.edu/MECL/pshop/08:11
fennyou won't see any 80/20 extrusions doing metal removal08:11
kanzurelooks about right08:11
fenni have those black dial calipers on my desk 4 inches from the keyboard08:12
justanotheruserI'll talk to some vocational school instead08:17
fennhttps://engineering.purdue.edu/MECL/pshop/tour/shop4.jpg08:20
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fennlooks like a pretty well equipped teaching shop, you'd be spoiled after that08:24
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kanzure08:41 <@gwern> Burninate: I looked at it but the whole area of willpower is very confusing right now08:42
kanzure08:41 <@gwern> ever since kurzban's big review pretty much demolishing it08:42
kanzuregood08:42
fennlink?08:42
kanzuremaybe this one: http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/03/12/book-review-willpower/08:43
kanzureor maybe http://epjournal.net/blog/2011/08/glucose-is-not-willpower-fuel/08:43
fennno08:43
fennmaybe08:43
kanzuremaybe http://lesswrong.com/lw/jan/kurzban_et_al_on_opportunity_cost_models_of/08:43
fenn"the fact that the brain is an information-processing system" uh huh08:45
fennsure it is08:45
fennand so is my pet rock08:45
kanzureeven a rock has information processing capacity, but it might be only one bit or something08:45
fennit computes being a rock08:46
BurninateThat was from https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3mtp80/selfcontrol_saps_memory_resources_new_research/08:46
kanzure"it computes being a rock" i think this is why you're not a scientist08:46
archels.wik Kidnapped robot problem08:47
yoleaux"In robotics, the kidnapped robot problem commonly refers to a situation where an autonomous robot in operation is carried to an arbitrary location." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapped_robot_problem08:47
fennkanzure: it's somewhat tongue in cheeck, the MIT CBA people look at the world that way08:48
fenni get pissy when people think the brain is a {watch, computer, $machine_of_the_day}08:48
archels$metaphorOfTheDay08:49
kanzureyes yes, i know. it was funny.08:49
archelsthe brain is a switchboard!08:49
fenna tank of water!08:50
fennoh wait that was a battery08:50
archelsthet brain is a battery! It generates potentials!08:50
fennhey let's hook up the human race to pods and use them to generate electricity08:51
fennit'll be the least efficient lulz generator ever08:51
archelsdude, there are lots of robots around me now staring back at me. stop freaking me out08:51
kanzuredon't worry, they are busy being preoccupied with the existential horror of their existence08:52
archelsah, that must be why they invariably seem so stricken with ennui08:52
fenni wonder if anyone has looked at waste-accumulation as the "resource" that is being "depleted"08:59
kanzurethere was someone that looked at waste removal/cleanup and sleep08:59
fennyes08:59
archelssounds Aubrey de Grey-ish09:01
archelsor did you mean on the shorter term09:01
kanzurenope wasn't him09:01
archelsthere was the whole CSF and intracellular spacing thing09:01
kanzure.title http://www.sciencemag.org/content/342/6156/37309:02
yoleauxSleep Drives Metabolite Clearance from the Adult Brain09:02
kanzurethere was also another one that was about waste-specific physical pathways for draining or something. not sure.09:02
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archelsyeah that's the one09:03
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fenni'm mildly disappointed that kurzban wasn't the handle of someone who hated kurzweil09:33
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kanzurekurzwreked09:38
fenn"Remarkably, given that fatigue has been studied formally for well over 100 years, there is still no scientifically mature theory of its origins and functions."09:40
* fenn remarks09:41
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maakufenn: meaning mental fatigue?09:53
fennyes09:54
kanzuremental whatnow? :-)09:56
fennthat thing that happens when you stop taking adderall09:58
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fennone day i realized that the reason it seemed like i never got anything done was because everyone else was cheating and drinking coffee09:59
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kanzureor because they are lying; try tracking what they claim to have accomplished versus actual results.10:00
* fenn clears some brain metabolites10:04
kanzure.title http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/150915/ncomms9264/full/ncomms9264.html10:05
yoleauxSonogenetics is a non-invasive approach to activating neurons in Caenorhabditis elegans : Nature Communications : Nature Publishing Group10:05
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kanzurecathal posting about libgen stuff https://www.reddit.com/r/Scholar/comments/3bs1rm/meta_the_libgenscihub_thread_howtos_updates_and/cu5oebb12:28
kanzuremaaku: quite sneaky of you https://www.reddit.com/r/Transhuman/comments/3l59ou/opportunities_to_further_the_goals_of/12:32
cpopell4maaku if you're ex-nasa, are you MD based?12:37
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kanzurecan't find this in the logs, not sure if i've mentioned this, but kent kemmish had an idea about doing one-pot large batch selection of dna polymerase for responsiveness to electrical conduction somehow. i don't remember the exact details of the technique, but it didn't require emulsions for some reason.12:40
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kanzurecrispr-cpf1 http://www.cell.com/cell/abstract/S0092-8674(15)01200-312:46
kanzure.title12:46
yoleauxkanzure: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page.12:46
kanzure"Cpf1 Is a Single RNA-Guided Endonuclease of a Class 2 CRISPR-Cas System"12:47
kanzure"Cpf1 is a CRISPR-associated two-component RNA-programmable DNA nuclease; Targeted DNA is cleaved as a 5-nt staggered cut distal to a 5′ T-rich PAM; Two Cpf1 orthologs exhibit robust nuclease activity in human cells"12:47
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maakucpopell4: california. nasa ames14:19
maakukanzure: it just happened to be the convenient truth14:19
cpopell4maaku : ahh, k. My GF is at JHUAPL14:19
maakucpopell4: ah that's a cool place to work14:25
maakui interfaced with a bunch of people over ther14:25
cpopell4maaku : yeah, though she's moving to private enterprise next year14:27
kanzure"If/since some/most experiments show no benefit from youthful plasma/blood exchange, then I hypothesize that in heterochronic parabiosis, what is happening is that the young mouse's entire organism/systems (Not its unmodified young blood) are responding to the old mouse's biomarkers carried into the young mouse via the aged mouse blood. These Old markers are interpreted as (for instance) injury and anomalous characteristics by the young ...14:35
kanzure... mouse's systems that are no longer considered anomalous by the old mouse's systems. If this hypothesis has merit, it predicts that simple plasma or whole blood exchanges will NOT induce reversal of aging. I believe this experiment has already happened and has been falsified via chronic blood transfusions in (for instance) early dialysis patients and others who have had to have multiple transfusuons. Statistically, many of such ...14:36
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kanzure... individuals should have benefitted from a lucky coin flipping outcome, and thus experienced significant benefits. If true, this implies that Aging to a significant degree appears to be based on a countdown clocking system that may be very widely distributed in an organism. In other words, aging is a program."14:36
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maakukanzure: unfortunately StealerofSuns needs a bouncer. he showed up here a few days ago and then disappeared14:37
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maakukanzure: you got something against clifford wolf?15:45
kanzureopenscad15:46
maakuah15:48
kanzuretriangles everywhere15:48
kanzurereinventing languages just for cad? weak15:48
kanzurehe has since moved on though15:49
maakuI once looked down on complicated geometrical representations, since any 3d polymesh can be represented with triangles15:53
maakuthen i tried writing finite element analysis and getting consistent results15:53
kanzurehard to express curves with just triangles15:53
maakuoh well yeah you need some curve structure too. although just one will do15:54
kanzureboolean operations on surface-surface intersections is ugh, and triangle representation leads to loss of quality15:54
kanzureplus, as the size of your model increases, memory consumption balloons15:54
kanzure(with triangle bag approach)15:54
kanzurebut anyway; none of this necessitates a custom new language integrated into an IDE or whatever.15:55
kanzuremaaku: have i complained about opencascade to you before? http://diyhpl.us/wiki/cad/opencascade/15:56
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maakuno not yet16:00
kanzureopencascade is one of the few canonical example of open-source cad kernels (other than brlcad, which is written by the military)16:01
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kanzureyashgaroth: how goes summer of freedom?16:06
yashgarothawaiting exit interview thursday morn16:06
yashgaroththe urge to burn bridges is strong, but if I've learned anything about biotech, it's an very incestuous community16:07
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gnushahttps://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=28eda632 Bryan Bishop: transcript of mike walfish talk on snarks >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/simons-institute/a-wishlist-for-verifiable-computation/17:37
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gnushahttps://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=ac254d8e Bryan Bishop: transcript: eran tromer, snarks >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/simons-institute/snarks-and-their-practical-applications/18:24
gnushahttps://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=9fd6306e Bryan Bishop: typofix: greg -> craig >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/simons-institute/a-wishlist-for-verifiable-computation/18:25
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kanzurehttp://selenianboondocks.com/2015/09/mars-surface-shielding-from-radiation/18:38
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kanzurehttp://garzikrants.blogspot.com/2015/09/decoupling-financial-indices-with.html19:10
kanzure" Simple injections of young 'blood' were sufficient to increase neurogenesis in the brain of older animals - and that is impossible given your thesis as there's no involvement of the entire young animal in that.  Also Saul Villeda showed that simple injections of eotaxin, a chemokine that accumulates with age, were enough to decreases neurogenesis in the brain. Now it would seem, if nothing else, that the injection experiments ...19:20
kanzure... necessarily show some 'positive' factors in young blood plasma (able to incite old neural precursors to become neurons) - as no dilution was involved, while the original Villeda experiments show that negative factors exist in the blood of old animals able to repress neurogenesis. And of course all the old tissue and organ transplantation experiments show that it's the old tissues that become rejuvenated by purely humoral factors, ...19:20
kanzure... there are no cellular inputs from the hosts."19:20
caternbrb injecting baby blood19:24
caternwill it work if i just drink it?19:25
kanzureask the priests19:25
yashgarothgotta mainline that shit19:30
JayDuggerI hear anointing, if done properly, also works.19:32
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erasmusjustanotheruser is a convicted pedophile and has a record.20:34
justanotheruserI thought you said you were going to use your botnet to harass me? this is too easy :(20:34
erasmusit's known he likes little boys.20:34
erasmuspedophile20:34
erasmusyou make me sick20:35
erasmusyou are as bad as bluelobster20:35
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erasmusjustanotherchild_offender.20:37
fennoffend all the children!21:32
fenninject their young "blood"!21:32
fennheil kkkrist http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6arA2h1sOSs/UdBHs3DC-II/AAAAAAAAGrs/1EN5LDA0mcY/s1600/IMG_0267.JPG21:34
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cpopellhurrah, I understand the most basics of church numerals!21:46
mginwhat the fuck?21:50
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fenn"The inventor has been invited to the white house, got a job offer at facebook and twitter, will be admitted at stanford and is probably going to pass 2 million followers" <- any guesses as to what the invention was?22:13
Stskeepsfenn: the exocortex says an electro-mechanical clock with liquid display :P22:16
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