| --- Log opened Mon Dec 28 00:00:49 2015 | ||
| -!- xentrac [~kragen@adjuvant.canonical.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:01 | |
| xentrac | hmm, if you were squirting binder into a powder bed at 1200 dpi, you could get an insert printed point-up to have a 20-micron-wide edge | 00:11 |
|---|---|---|
| xentrac | I think that's probably sharp enough to cut metal | 00:11 |
| xentrac | the surface finish might not be good enough though | 00:11 |
| xentrac | it might be after you densify it in a furnace for a while though | 00:12 |
| -!- CautiousNarwhal [ad03d8c6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.173.3.216.198] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] | 00:19 | |
| -!- CautiousNarwhal [ad03d8c6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.173.3.216.198] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:25 | |
| -!- CautiousNarwhal [ad03d8c6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.173.3.216.198] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] | 00:46 | |
| FourFire | justanotheruser, if you don't need loads of bandwidth for your GPU cluster, just compute, check out:http://amfeltec.com/products/gpu-oriented-cluster/ | 00:52 |
| -!- CautiousNarwhal [ad03d8c6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.173.3.216.198] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:02 | |
| -!- CautiousNarwhal [ad03d8c6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.173.3.216.198] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] | 01:18 | |
| justanotheruser | FourFire: That is useful if I want to use the capital to buy GPUs :) | 01:29 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:37 | |
| -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-akatswktxxcrovmt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 02:47 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:59 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 03:14 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:40 | |
| -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mchkgncytfwuzyga] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:46 | |
| -!- Act [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nscxnfiruwweqxpg] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:00 | |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@ese1.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:17 | |
| -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-71-50-56-224.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:26 | |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xbazgmignttileay] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:30 | |
| jrayhawk_ | Alcyius: that was a good article, thank you for that article | 05:12 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-73-74.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:29 | |
| -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-71-50-56-224.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 05:37 | |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@50.247.130.97] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:45 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:48 | |
| FAMAS | greetings all. has anyone in this channel performed research and hobbyist activity regarding file archiving? | 05:50 |
| -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-155-69.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:51 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 05:53 | |
| -!- cpopell4 [~cpopell@209.48.69.2] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:58 | |
| JayDugger | Not personally, no, but I think that topic has come and gone in the past. | 05:59 |
| JayDugger | You might check the logs first. | 05:59 |
| -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:59 | |
| FAMAS | this user recommends the utilization of the paq and bulkzip algorithms for file archiving at maximum possible compression and recommends them being utilized to store the channel logs | 06:05 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 06:10 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 06:32 | |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@ese1.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 06:33 | |
| eudoxia | >BulkZip is a commercial file archiver... | 06:37 |
| eudoxia | >commercial | 06:37 |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xbazgmignttileay] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 06:39 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-73-74.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 06:43 | |
| -!- cpopell4 is now known as Aurelius_Work | 07:03 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:10 | |
| -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:6c4d:bd06:3694:2599] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 07:39 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:47 | |
| -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:909f:3320:82ee:560] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:50 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 07:51 | |
| -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fqtlhdsppnxhyiis] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:56 | |
| kanzure | various math books from springer https://gist.github.com/bishboria/8326b17bbd652f34566a | 08:00 |
| kanzure | "popper's philosophy of science: looking ahead" (2007) http://petergodfreysmith.com/PGSonPopper.pdf | 08:04 |
| kanzure | "eliminative inference" | 08:04 |
| kanzure | this document says popper had a constraint regarding deductive consistency. that seems like a reasonable thing to impose... | 08:11 |
| -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@195.114.243.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 08:14 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:24 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 08:34 | |
| -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@195.114.243.161] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:38 | |
| esmerelda | Sweet, thanks kanzure | 08:40 |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@50.247.130.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 08:44 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:05 | |
| -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@195.114.243.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 09:14 | |
| -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@195.114.248.161] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:29 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-34-212.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:50 | |
| eudoxia | huh | 09:51 |
| eudoxia | some guy forked NanoEngineer a while ago | 09:51 |
| eudoxia | http://sourceforge.net/projects/moleculardynami/ | 09:51 |
| eudoxia | http://moleculardynamicsstudio.blogspot.com/ | 09:51 |
| eudoxia | cc kanzure | 09:51 |
| kanzure | yep i was aware | 09:54 |
| FourFire | Thanks for that article Alcyius (Damn, I need to rethink how to eliminate mensturation) | 10:07 |
| FourFire | Hrrhm... I'm going to have to rethink my strategy entirely here, maybe even have to delay this project until after my longterm one is well underway | 10:10 |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 10:11 | |
| -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:909f:3320:82ee:560] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 10:16 | |
| -!- esmerelda [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 10:23 | |
| -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:909f:3320:82ee:560] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:28 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:28 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:33 | |
| xentrac | what was alycius's article? I think I missed it when my host went offline | 10:34 |
| kanzure | at the bottom of http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-12-27.log | 10:36 |
| xentrac | oh, sorry. thanks! | 10:37 |
| xentrac | oh, yes, I read that one when it was on Quora | 10:38 |
| xentrac | I think it's been improved slightly | 10:38 |
| -!- andares [~andares@2607:fb90:1003:a1fd:ea82:ea6a:968d:f4d5] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:40 | |
| -!- andares [~andares@2607:fb90:1003:a1fd:ea82:ea6a:968d:f4d5] has quit [Changing host] | 10:40 | |
| -!- andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:40 | |
| kanzure | "Prebiotic intake reduces the waking cortisol response and alters emotional bias in healthy volunteers" http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00213-014-3810-0 | 10:53 |
| kanzure | "The salivary cortisol awakening response was significantly lower after B-GOS intake compared with placebo. Participants also showed decreased attentional vigilance to negative versus positive information in a dot-probe task after B-GOS compared to placebo intake." | 10:53 |
| kanzure | (B-GOS is "bimuno-galactooligosaccharides") | 10:54 |
| -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 11:02 | |
| -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@195.114.248.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 11:03 | |
| xentrac | fenn: it occurred to me after my client went offline that if you're inkjet-printing binder into a powder bed, if the cutting point is vertical (i.e. perpendicular to the surface of the bed), 1200 dpi lets you make a cutting point that's 20 microns sharp | 11:07 |
| xentrac | 20 microns would be terrible for scissors or shaving but I wonder if it might be adequate for lathe bits. probably not, eh? | 11:08 |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 11:14 | |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:30 | |
| docl | wouldn't it be easier to use a grinder to polish up the lathe bits once you have the general form? | 11:34 |
| xentrac | people do do that | 11:35 |
| xentrac | apparently there are a couple of difficulties | 11:35 |
| xentrac | one is that things like chip-breakers are concave enough that they can be tricky | 11:35 |
| xentrac | another is that grinding wheels that can grind corundum are expensive. carbide not so much | 11:36 |
| docl | lasers is my next suggestion. but concave might defeat that too. | 11:36 |
| FourFire | I'm thinking of getting noise reduction earplugs with passthrough: that is they uniformly make all sounds quieter, has anyone here experimented with noise reduction; optimal reduction in decibels? | 11:39 |
| FourFire | I can get from 10 dB to 26 dB reduction according to this site, I'm thinking 20dB might be suitable, 12.5% sound volume and I can always take them out when I need to listen, but otherwise my hearing should be decently protected | 11:40 |
| FourFire | does anyone have input (i really don't know about this sort of thing) | 11:40 |
| xentrac | where does the 12.5% come from? | 11:41 |
| xentrac | musicians do worry a bit about flat frequency response from their earplugs but I don't know what they recommend | 11:42 |
| xentrac | unfortunately all earplugs have some frequencies they barely attenuate | 11:42 |
| docl | xentrac: is it difficult to diamond-coat things? the chart we were looking at actually lists cvd as a moderate range of vacuum | 11:43 |
| FourFire | dB scale is logrithmic, at +5 dB = doubling of energy intensity so -20dB should be = 1/8 of initial energy | 11:43 |
| xentrac | FourFire: oh, no, your logarithmic base is wrong | 11:44 |
| FourFire | xentrac, someone who I believe not to be a fool recommends these. | 11:44 |
| FourFire | xentrac, oh right :/ | 11:44 |
| FourFire | I'll be back, have to pick up my bed | 11:44 |
| xentrac | 20dB will keep your sound levels safe until the outside level is about 100dB, which is what you get when you're running a jackhammer | 11:46 |
| docl | CVD production of diamonds has received a great deal of attention in the materials sciences because it allows many new applications of diamonds that had previously been considered too difficult to make economical. CVD diamond growth typically occurs under low pressure (1–27 kPa; 0.145–3.926 psi; 7.5-203 Torr) and involves feeding varying amounts of gases into a chamber, energizing them and providin | 11:46 |
| docl | g conditions for diamond growth on the substrate. | 11:46 |
| docl | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_vapor_deposition#Diamond | 11:46 |
| docl | Sprengel pump can get to that level of vacuum easy. | 11:47 |
| eudoxia | i'm surprised this is the largest CVD diamond that has been made https://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/national/worlds-largest-man-made-diamond-debuts-in-nyc/2015/02/12/27252a02-b2f3-11e4-bf39-5560f3918d4b_video.html | 11:50 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 11:51 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:01 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-34-212.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 12:05 | |
| kanzure | dustin trammell is running ads on austin-area fm radio for his bodyhacking/bodymod conference, heard it a few minutes ago when i started the car | 12:48 |
| kanzure | based on his hiring and stuff, i'm p. confident he cashed out a lot of his bitcoin a long time ago | 12:48 |
| -!- jdqx [~jdqx@2602:306:cc94:1950:f8bb:90c1:43e7:3b73] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:55 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 12:57 | |
| docl | xentrac: looks like sodium silicate is a cheap chemical that you can buy online fairly easily. http://www.amazon.com/Rutland-146-Cement-Sealer-Fireplace/dp/B004YEDQOK | 13:13 |
| catern | xentrac: hey | 13:16 |
| catern | your name is almost an anagram of mine | 13:16 |
| catern | good show | 13:16 |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 13:17 | |
| xentrac | docl: yes, sodium silicate is very cheap and in the US it can be bought online fairly easily. In Argentina I am still looking for a source | 13:21 |
| xentrac | docl: yes, CVD diamond is really interesting, but I don't know to make it. I mean I don't know what else is involved other than a medium vacuum | 13:22 |
| docl | medium vacuum, carbon source (say methane), and maybe electrical charge on the deposition site, I'm guessing? | 13:27 |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@ma15036d0.tmodns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:27 | |
| xentrac | if it were that simple then diamond-coated toolbits would have been common in the 1920s | 13:27 |
| xentrac | I mean people did start making artificial diamonds not too far after that, so it wasn't that they didn't realize it was possible, and of course diamond abrasives had long been of immense industrial importance | 13:28 |
| xentrac | but my memory is that CVD diamond coatings didn't become common until fairly recently, like 20 years ago | 13:29 |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 13:35 | |
| Alcyius | FourFire, jrayhawk_, you're welcome | 13:45 |
| xentrac | Alcyius: it really is an awesome article | 13:46 |
| xentrac | thank you for sharing it :) | 13:46 |
| Alcyius | I found it while browsing /r/childfree | 13:46 |
| Alcyius | :P | 13:46 |
| Alcyius | And I thought you guys would like it | 13:46 |
| -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qtjxbgpuecoiohju] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:48 | |
| -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:48 | |
| archels | the preganancy thing on aeon? | 13:50 |
| Alcyius | yeah | 13:50 |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@ma15036d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 13:52 | |
| -!- Guest1038 [~socrates1@li175-104.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] | 13:52 | |
| -!- Guest1038 [~socrates1@unaffiliated/socrates1024] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:52 | |
| -!- Guest1038 is now known as amiller | 13:52 | |
| jrayhawk_ | re: prebiotics: a lot of that depends on particular contexts, but broadly speaking hydrogen-yielding and methane-yielding (e.g. most GOS and most polyol products) reactions tend to be more pathological, where butyrate-yielding (resistant starch, polysaccharide) reactions tend to be more beneficial. | 13:55 |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@ese1.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:02 | |
| docl | http://www.gia.edu/news-research-CVD-grown-part1 | 14:23 |
| docl | The CVD process is quite different from natural diamond formation. It produces diamond from a heated mixture of a hydrocarbon gas (typically methane) and hydrogen in a vacuum chamber at very low pressures. Under normal circumstances, heating this mixture at such low pressures would produce graphite or some other non-diamond form of carbon. But in a CVD growth chamber, some of the hydrogen is converted | 14:23 |
| docl | to atomic hydrogen, which promotes diamond formation since diamond is more stable in this environment. The conversion of molecular hydrogen to atomic hydrogen is accomplished through methods such as the application of microwave energy, an electric discharge, or hot filaments. | 14:23 |
| docl | When atomic hydrogen is present in the gas phase, two chemical processes occur: | 14:24 |
| docl | (1) Graphite and other non-diamond carbon react with the atomic hydrogen and evaporate in a newly formed gas phase. | 14:24 |
| docl | (2) Atomic hydrogen reacts with the original hydrocarbon gas (methane) to form a highly reactive carbon-hydrogen species. When this species decomposes, it gives up its hydrogen to form pure carbon: diamond. | 14:24 |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:54 | |
| -!- jaboja64 [~jaboja@erx94.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:01 | |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@ese1.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 15:05 | |
| docl | https://www.onlineamd.com/FileUploads/File/Whitepapers/Crystallume_White%20Paper.pdf | 15:18 |
| docl | http://www.chm.bristol.ac.uk/pt/diamond/pdf/end.pdf | 15:18 |
| -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] | 15:34 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 15:46 | |
| Alcyius | The Four White Suburban Soccer Moms of the Apocalypse | 15:49 |
| Alcyius | Disease is an antivaxxer, Famine is an insane, over the top diet nut, War is the "I want to speak to your manager", and Death is head of the homeowner's association and has a bunch of plastic surgery | 15:50 |
| kanzure | is this what school is having you spend time on? | 15:51 |
| Alcyius | I'm on break | 15:52 |
| docl | xentrac: the way they describe it in those papers it sounds really easy. there is some temperature control and/or rf stuff, but seems to be mostly a matter of a low pressure CH4/H2 atmosphere. the hydrogen tends to break down the non-diamond stuff. | 15:56 |
| -!- c0rw|zZz [~c0rw1n@91.176.76.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 16:10 | |
| -!- c0rw|zZz_ [~c0rw1n@91.176.76.47] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:11 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:15 | |
| docl | Oh, here we go. The temperature needed for diamond CVD is in the 1000-1400K range. | 16:38 |
| docl | While each method differs in detail, they all share features in common. For example, growth of diamond (rather than deposition of other, less well-defined forms of carbon) normally requires that the substrate be maintained at a temperature in the range lOOO-14OOK, and that the precursor gas be diluted in an excess of hydrogen (typical CH, mixing ratio -1-2 ~01%). | 16:38 |
| xentrac | you do make it sound pretty simple! | 16:41 |
| xentrac | I think "atomic hydrogen" is H, not H₂ | 16:42 |
| xentrac | H₂ isn't going to react with methane or graphite much if at all, even at 1400K | 16:42 |
| xentrac | but H seems pretty likely to | 16:43 |
| docl | the bristol doc showed h2 in the diagram for some reason. maybe it gets split by the heat or something? | 16:43 |
| kanzure | https://medium.com/@jasonschmitt/can-t-disrupt-this-elsevier-and-the-25-2-billion-dollar-a-year-academic-publishing-business-aa3b9618d40a#.sizpjoixr | 16:44 |
| kanzure | huh.... $25 billion is more than i expected. this will be harder to convince bill gates or zuckerberg to buy. | 16:44 |
| xentrac | I don't think atomic hydrogen is going to last very long at anything less than a high vacuum | 16:45 |
| xentrac | so maybe you feed in H₂ and your hot filament or microwave-pumped plasma or whatever breaks it up into H (and H+ and H- probably) | 16:46 |
| xentrac | it would be nice to look at a paper containing a methods section reporting one a CVD experiment | 16:47 |
| kanzure | "The push toward open access is not only growing in sheer numbers of journals but also in an increasingly confrontational strategy that academics leverage against large publishers. “At the moment, the Netherlands, the whole country, has said to Elsevier that we want all of our researchers to be able to publish open access in your journals at the same rates we would pay for a subscription last year and if you can’t do that we’re ... | 16:47 |
| kanzure | ... going to cancel every one of your journals, for all of our universities nationwide,” says Eve. “They have a few days left to resolve this, and it looks like they are going to cancel all the Elsevier journals.”" | 16:47 |
| kanzure | awesome. | 16:47 |
| xentrac | that's fantastic | 16:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | nice | 16:48 |
| xentrac | what would be even better would be if they took away the Elsevier trademark, which is stolen from one of the most illustrious presses of the Renaissance | 16:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im not even sure why an entire country is even dealing with them | 16:49 |
| kanzure | inertia | 16:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | What is Elsevier going to do, sue them? | 16:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | Seriously, if I was an entire country, I'd just not pay them, and publish the entire library of their journals every month or whenever they come out | 16:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | as a PDF or something | 16:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | and just distribute that | 16:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | pass a law stating that scientific research can't be paywalled like that | 16:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | Elsevier can't sue, its the law | 16:50 |
| -!- _andares [~andares@2607:fb90:812c:2f82:8de0:52b2:5cff:85c5] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:51 | |
| -!- _andares [~andares@2607:fb90:812c:2f82:8de0:52b2:5cff:85c5] has quit [Changing host] | 16:51 | |
| -!- _andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:51 | |
| kanzure | there are other international laws that countries have to abide by, it's how the world patent office happened. | 16:51 |
| xentrac | there's a world patent office? | 16:51 |
| xentrac | .wik world patent office | 16:51 |
| yoleaux | "A patent office is a governmental or intergovernmental organization which controls the issue of patents. In other words, "patent offices are government bodies that may grant a patent or reject the patent application based on whether the application fulfils the requirements for patentability."" — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_office | 16:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, its a disgusting mistake | 16:51 |
| xentrac | maybe you mean the PCT? | 16:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | patents in one country are now valid in other countries due to global trade agreements | 16:52 |
| xentrac | no, that is not true | 16:52 |
| kanzure | i think that academic publishers are going to start requiring journal editors (and other members) to sign non-compete agreements (which thankfully are not valid in some jurisdictions). | 16:53 |
| xentrac | in general | 16:53 |
| xentrac | maybe the EPO is an exception | 16:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | xentrac: US and EU seem to have one | 16:53 |
| kanzure | the attrition method of academic journals switching to open access seems to be the popular (and only) trend | 16:53 |
| xentrac | Diablo-D3: no, they do nt | 16:53 |
| xentrac | not | 16:53 |
| kanzure | it requires the editors to all agree at the same time to close up shop and open up another journal instead | 16:53 |
| xentrac | also there is no world patent office | 16:53 |
| kanzure | i guess this will only work when there's an actual group of editors or whatever, running the journal | 16:54 |
| kanzure | in the case of nature.com i think it's much more corporate | 16:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | nature.com doesn't seem to cock up stuff, though | 16:54 |
| kanzure | that's not what this is about | 16:54 |
| -!- andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 16:54 | |
| Diablo-D3 | Well, from what I understand of the story, it isn't totally about closed access | 16:55 |
| xentrac | however, the Netherlands is bound by the copyright treaties it has signed, which include the Berne Convention, Diablo-D3 | 16:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | its about Elsevier publishing papers that have no scientific validity, and dismissing anyone questioning the validity of those papers | 16:55 |
| xentrac | and Elsevier certainly could sue them | 16:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | ergo, without open access, there is no way to hold Elsevier accountable | 16:56 |
| xentrac | also that is nonsense | 16:56 |
| xentrac | there is no issue of "Elsevier publishing papers that have no scientific validity" | 16:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dunno, thats the way I've seen it played out in the press. | 16:56 |
| xentrac | nor is open access necessary to "hold Elsevier accountable" | 16:56 |
| * Diablo-D3 shrugs | 16:57 | |
| Diablo-D3 | Like I said, thats how the press has handled it | 16:57 |
| xentrac | that at last is a statement that might at least be partly true | 16:57 |
| xentrac | while I haven't seen any articles that could be described as anything remotely like the way you are describing the situation, it's entirely possible that some uninformed journalist somewhere has published such a confused article | 16:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | well, more than one journalist have, and they've hit the top of HN before. | 16:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | *has | 16:59 |
| kanzure | "The Center for Open Science, which provides seed funds to startups in the academic scientific research space, is led by Nosek and focuses on aligning scientific values to scientific practices" | 16:59 |
| xentrac | I have not seen any such articles on HN, although that does not mean that no such thing has happened | 16:59 |
| kanzure | yes the international copyright treaties are insidious | 17:00 |
| kanzure | yes, the issue is not about elsevier publishing invalid stuff. afaik elsevier does retractions in a timely manner, and seems to get rid of bad journals over time. i think. | 17:00 |
| kanzure | "how the press handles stuff" is completely meaningless; the press is absurd and often doesn't report on reality. | 17:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | since I don't publish papers nor subscribe to any journal, then the press is the only way I get to know about this stuff | 17:01 |
| xentrac | even if they didn't, publishing sloppy research is usually not the kind of thing academics or national governments organize to take action over | 17:02 |
| xentrac | there are any number of journals of astrology, numerology, reiki, homeopathy, traditional Chinese medicine, etc., and they generally remain unmolested | 17:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | but who publishes them? | 17:03 |
| xentrac | you can google if you like. I don't know | 17:03 |
| xentrac | I would know if national governments were going around issuing ultimatums to their publishers though | 17:04 |
| xentrac | anyway http://www.chm.bristol.ac.uk/pt/diamond/pdf/end.pdf is a lot more interesting than typing as fast as I can to correct whatever nonsense pops into your head at the moment, Diablo-D3 | 17:04 |
| xentrac | as I recall you still haven't figured out the lifetime expectancy of plaster-of-Paris refractories | 17:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not that I havent figured it out, its that it wasn't interesting to me | 17:06 |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 17:06 | |
| xentrac | you were the one that brought it up! | 17:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, I was basically passing through a question by someone else. | 17:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | and it was more of a yes or no question than anything | 17:07 |
| kanzure | xentrac: it's too bad that academic journal reputation is so closely tied to career metrics. | 17:10 |
| xentrac | docl: an interesting thing about this paper is that it mentions that CVD diamond substrates are fairly limited | 17:10 |
| xentrac | kanzure: yeah, it would be better if we had a better system for that | 17:10 |
| kanzure | so one idea i have is to make a small web tool to help academic journal contributors anonymously consent to moving the journal to an open access model | 17:11 |
| -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fqtlhdsppnxhyiis] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 17:11 | |
| kanzure | and then other insiders can see how many people have agreed out of the toal | 17:11 |
| xentrac | good idea | 17:11 |
| kanzure | this way they can have a safe way to express their opinion or desire | 17:11 |
| kanzure | and then when there's critical mass (whatever they judge that to be) they can flip the switch and go public, or receive volunteer help to transition the journal etc | 17:11 |
| kanzure | i think that the publishers are, in fact, providing some services to these journals and editor groups or peer review groups. but the services are relatively minor. still, they have to be fulfilled somehow. | 17:12 |
| -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wwrushxpmpqbuakj] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:13 | |
| xentrac | docl: can't do aluminum or soda-lime or borosilicate glass (they melt), can't do iron or cobalt (too reactive with the diamond, same reason you don't cut steel with diamond), so you're almost stuck with substrates like silicon, molybdenum, tungsten, and their carbides | 17:13 |
| kanzure | heh i guess the site could dump the data in the hands of open-access publishers or something, e.g. sell the data and let open access publishers compete for the business of the journal that is thinking about switching | 17:13 |
| xentrac | kanzure: the publishers are mostly rent-seeking. it's the same thing as some guy whose grandfather built his house on a particular street corner which has now become a bustling urban center | 17:14 |
| xentrac | the guy can charge Starbucks an arm and a leg to set up shop there because he has a legal title to the place | 17:14 |
| xentrac | (an arm and a leg per month: Mayhem Coffee) | 17:15 |
| kanzure | hmm nevermind, i don't think that journal editors are missing out on a way to talk with each other about going open-access or switching publishers | 17:15 |
| xentrac | no, not really :) | 17:15 |
| kanzure | they are already in communication with each other | 17:15 |
| xentrac | it's kind of their job | 17:15 |
| xentrac | in fact they're the best in the world at it | 17:15 |
| xentrac | that's why they're journal editors and department chairs and shit | 17:16 |
| xentrac | they just don't care that much because their libraries already have subscriptions | 17:16 |
| xentrac | unless Elsevier tightens the screws too much | 17:16 |
| xentrac | docl: oh, and things that are too *unreactive* with the diamond, like sapphire, gold, germanium, and surprisingly diamond | 17:17 |
| docl | can't use it to grind aluminum oxide stuff? | 17:17 |
| xentrac | oh, sorry | 17:18 |
| xentrac | I mean you can't use aluminum oxide as the substrate | 17:18 |
| xentrac | the diamonds don't nucleate | 17:18 |
| xentrac | apparently | 17:18 |
| docl | ah, that makes more sense | 17:18 |
| xentrac | you know, there's probably a big market for a CVD diamond-coating machine to deposite a diamond coating on whatever bit you've just custom ground out of titanium carbide | 17:19 |
| xentrac | I mean maybe not that huge because it is only helpful for when you're cutting nonferrous materials | 17:20 |
| xentrac | but there are shops that cut nonferrous metals a lot | 17:20 |
| docl | well, if you can cut aluminum oxide into custom shapes, you can use that on the ferrous stuff. | 17:22 |
| xentrac | yeah, I don't know why people use titanium carbide instead of aluminum oxide for cutting tools sometimes | 17:23 |
| xentrac | well, almost all the time actually | 17:23 |
| docl | I wonder though, doesn't the ferrous caveat apply only above certain temperatures? for our purposes, might be enough to do it in a cold bath or something. diamond is a super thermally conductive substance. | 17:24 |
| xentrac | I suspect it's a matter of toughness | 17:24 |
| xentrac | yes, but cutting metal with a toolbit actually involves melting it at the fracture propagation point | 17:25 |
| xentrac | I don't know if that's inevitable | 17:25 |
| xentrac | or just makes things work a lot better | 17:25 |
| xentrac | I mean I think you can file or hacksaw metal at arbitrarily slow speeds and I'm not sure that the process continues to involve melting | 17:26 |
| xentrac | but machinists check the iridescence color of the oxide layer on the chips to see if they are getting hot enough for optimal cutting speed and tool life | 17:26 |
| xentrac | I guess I should emphasize that my experience cutting metal with machine tools is roughly two weekend classes at the Crucible | 17:28 |
| xentrac | so I am very open to correction if I am misinterpreting the machining videos I watch on YouTube | 17:28 |
| xentrac | heh, http://www.chm.bristol.ac.uk/pt/diamond/pdf/end.pdf also suggests that diamond-cathode vacuum tubes could not only replace LCDs but also "form the basis of an ultra-fast switch" | 17:29 |
| xentrac | I guess because, absent the need to heat the cathode, you could fit the entire vacuum tube into a few cubic microns | 17:30 |
| xentrac | I hadn't realized this CVD survey paper was from 1995 though! | 17:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | xentrac: so you're looking at display replacements? | 17:37 |
| xentrac | I'm always interested in display replacements, but no | 17:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-conduction_electron-emitter_display | 17:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | Canon was working on that, then they got sued by one of those IP/patent trolls out of Texas, and they ended up deciding to not continue the project because the lawyer shit wasted too much time and money | 17:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | they're backing OLEDs now I think | 17:39 |
| docl | 1995? wow, I didn't realise that. I wonder how the futuristic speculations it contains look in retrospect... | 17:43 |
| xentrac | yeah, I had no idea! | 17:52 |
| xentrac | I guess they didn't pan out mostly | 17:52 |
| -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 17:55 | |
| Diablo-D3 | I wonder what was wrong with them, Ive never heard of that before | 17:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://arxiv.org/abs/1402.6999 | 17:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | is this related? | 17:56 |
| kanzure | .title | 17:57 |
| yoleaux | [1402.6999] First Operation of an Ungated Diamond Field-Emission Array Cathode in a L-Band Radiofrequency Electron Source | 17:57 |
| xentrac | sounds like it | 17:57 |
| xentrac | kanzure: what did you think of http://breakingsmart.com/season-1/? | 17:57 |
| xentrac | I'm assuming you've probably read it | 17:58 |
| kanzure | i've seen this, but haven't read it. i have read other things by venkat and generally he says agreeable things. | 17:58 |
| kanzure | some of this is probably better written than kelty's "two bits" book | 18:00 |
| kanzure | there was also a shorter article that venkat wrote about this... http://www.forbes.com/sites/venkateshrao/2011/12/05/the-rise-of-developeronomics/ | 18:01 |
| kanzure | and ribbonfarm tends to be okay reading material | 18:01 |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:08 | |
| -!- frege [63e70e09@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.231.14.9] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:20 | |
| frege | what the hell is roadmap? | 18:20 |
| frege | sorry, hplus | 18:20 |
| Aurelius_Home | humanityplus? | 18:20 |
| Aurelius_Home | e.g. transhumanism | 18:20 |
| Aurelius_Home | wow, e.g. was the wrong abbreviation there. I'm a retard. | 18:21 |
| frege | ah right so it's a gay club | 18:21 |
| Aurelius_Home | lol | 18:22 |
| frege | exactly | 18:22 |
| -!- justanot1eruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:27 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 18:27 | |
| -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:909f:3320:82ee:560] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 18:43 | |
| kanzure | i don't understand what seals have to do with this | 18:46 |
| -!- jaboja64 [~jaboja@erx94.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 18:47 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:47 | |
| -!- justanot1eruser is now known as justanotheruser | 18:49 | |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@erx94.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:52 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-163-215-18.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 18:53 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-221-52-245.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:53 | |
| -!- frege [63e70e09@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.231.14.9] has quit [Quit: Page closed] | 18:56 | |
| -!- AmbulatoryC0rtex [~Ambulator@173-31-155-69.client.mchsi.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:35 | |
| -!- AmbulatoryCortex [~Ambulator@173-31-155-69.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 19:38 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:40 | |
| -!- Act [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nscxnfiruwweqxpg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 19:47 | |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@erx94.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 19:49 | |
| -!- AmbulatoryC0rtex [~Ambulator@173-31-155-69.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 19:57 | |
| -!- justanotheruser is now known as gentoognuhurd | 20:21 | |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@erx94.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:25 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:49 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 21:05 | |
| -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 21:08 | |
| -!- Douhet [~Douhet@unaffiliated/douhet] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:09 | |
| -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@195.114.248.161] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:12 | |
| docl | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTML-JGRfMc | 21:38 |
| docl | .title | 21:38 |
| yoleaux | CVD Diamond Creation - YouTube | 21:38 |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 21:48 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:49 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has quit [Excess Flood] | 21:53 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:54 | |
| -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:909f:3320:82ee:560] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:24 | |
| xentrac | I guess that's a pretty big difference from 20 years ago | 22:33 |
| xentrac | hmm, two weeks of deposition to grow 2500 microns is 7 microns per hour, which is actually right in line with what that 20-year-old paper said they were getting then with plasma process | 22:36 |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 22:38 | |
| xentrac | (I guess in SI units that's 2 nm/s) | 22:42 |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@103.198.139.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:42 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@103.198.139.33] has quit [Changing host] | 22:42 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:42 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 22:50 | |
| -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wwrushxpmpqbuakj] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 22:51 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 23:01 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:02 | |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@erx94.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 23:04 | |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@erx94.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:05 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 23:11 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:12 | |
| -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has quit [Read error: No route to host] | 23:24 | |
| -!- FAMAS2 [~FAMAS@103.198.139.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:26 | |
| -!- FAMAS2 [~FAMAS@103.198.139.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 23:26 | |
| -!- FAMAS2 [~FAMAS@103.198.139.33] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:26 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 23:27 | |
| -!- FAMAS2 [~FAMAS@103.198.139.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 23:27 | |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@erx94.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 23:28 | |
| -!- _andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 23:32 | |
| -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:33 | |
| -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mchkgncytfwuzyga] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 23:40 | |
| --- Log closed Tue Dec 29 00:00:50 2015 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!