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| poppingtonic | .title http://dx.doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1402538111 | 06:18 |
|---|---|---|
| yoleaux | Single-residue insertion switches the quaternary structure and exciton states of cryptophyte light-harvesting proteins | 06:18 |
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| kanzure | "An approach to generating human organs is to grow them inside pigs or sheep" http://www.technologyreview.com/news/545106/human-animal-chimeras-are-gestating-on-us-research-farms/ | 07:18 |
| kanzure | "Last September, in a reversal of earlier policy, the National Institutes of Health announced it would not support studies involving such “human-animal chimeras” until it had reviewed the scientific and social implications more closely. The agency, in a statement, said it was worried about the chance that animals’ “cognitive state” could be altered if they ended up with human brain cells." | 07:18 |
| kanzure | wha? | 07:18 |
| kanzure | "researchers in 2014 decided to begin impregnating farm animals with human-animal embryos, says Pablo Ross, a veterinarian and developmental biologist at the University of California, Davis, where some of the animals are being housed. Ross says at Davis he has transferred about six sets of pig-human embryos into sows in collaboration with the Salk Institute and established another eight or 10 pregnancies of sheep-human embryos with ... | 07:20 |
| kanzure | ... Nakauchi. Another three dozen pig transfers have taken place outside the U.S., he says." | 07:20 |
| kanzure | "Lift NIH restrictions on chimera research" http://www.sciencemag.org/content/350/6261/640.1 (closed access) | 07:21 |
| rhaps0dy | :| | 07:26 |
| rhaps0dy | "the animal's cognitive state could be altered if they ended up with human brain cells" | 07:27 |
| rhaps0dy | bullshit/10 | 07:27 |
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| Diablo-D3 | [10:11:02] <nmz787_i> probably the eMMC is just a pcie card | 07:52 |
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| Diablo-D3 | nmz787: MMC is the base standard for SD cards | 07:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | nmz787: literally, in there, theres an SD card | 07:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | the problem is, its hard to find SD cards that also speak MMC correctly at the speeds you want | 07:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | or have the right pin-out | 07:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | nmz787: they also don't even have to be slow or small | 07:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | nmz787: though most boards now just perm attach the card, there isn't even a socket | 07:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | so you can't replace them | 07:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | nmz787: what you're probably going to see, though, is m.2 eventually adopted for these devices | 08:03 |
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| maaku | I have an HP stream 11 which is similar | 08:49 |
| maaku | Works quite well actually as a netbook | 08:50 |
| maaku | Works well under Linux except the WiFi card which has shit drivers | 08:52 |
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| maaku | Performance of emmc is the same as an SD card, as expected | 09:07 |
| maaku | But for a good quality card like the HP stream has, that's still 50MB/s, like a low end ssd. Better than spinning metal. | 09:08 |
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| xentrac | Diablo-D3: what's m.2? I don't know how to google it | 09:59 |
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| xentrac | maaku: my netbook has a single-core 32-bit 1.6GHz Atom, so the quad-core 1.3GHz would be a significant improvement | 10:00 |
| xentrac | also 1024×600 and probably a worse GPU | 10:02 |
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| pompolic | eee pc? | 10:11 |
| chris_99 | xentrac, http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/02/understanding-m-2-the-interface-that-will-speed-up-your-next-ssd/ | 10:13 |
| xentrac | pompolic: talking about 03:08 < nmz787_i> friggin quad-core Intel Atom laptop for $169 (only 2GB RAM and 1355x768 11" display, with 32GB eMMC) but dang... friggin economies of scale | 10:16 |
| xentrac | 03:10 < nmz787_i> this is the link i have http://www.frys.com/product/8673430?site=72premail011116 | 10:17 |
| xentrac | chris_99: thank yoU! | 10:17 |
| chris_99 | one of my friends just bought a pci-e ssd which supports it apparently | 10:17 |
| maaku | xentrac: bigger improvement is out of order execution | 10:21 |
| maaku | what is in the hp stream is not an atom -- it's a 64-bit out of order CPU | 10:21 |
| maaku | xentrac: http://www.frys.com/product/8320217?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG | 10:23 |
| maaku | (again, make sure the wifi on linux won't be an issue. works fine in windows..) | 10:24 |
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| Diablo-D3 | [12:59:10] <xentrac> Diablo-D3: what's m.2? I don't know how to google it | 10:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | xentrac: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2 | 10:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | xentrac: socket that has pci-e x4, usb 3.0, and sata 6g on the same connector | 10:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | xentrac: some mobos only support pci-e x4 and don't wire the others | 10:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | xentrac: well, x2 or x4 | 10:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | (wasting m.2 on just sata or x2 is a fucking waste, m.2 ssds of the same series as their 2.5" have a price penalty) | 10:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | xentrac: there are standardized widths and lengths, the smallest m.2 size would go great in 7" tablets | 10:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | xentrac: and the new iphones with the pci-e ssds for flash basically "do this" except its just merged right into the mainboard and theres no connectors (because none of that shit would ever fucking fit) | 10:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | xentrac: pci-e 3.0 x4 m.2 ssds on boards that support it can peak at like 2GB/sec (or 4x sata 6g) | 10:43 |
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| xentrac | maaku: thank you! | 11:17 |
| xentrac | Diablo-D3: thank yoU! | 11:17 |
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| Diablo-D3 | and btw, e that celeron | 11:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | [01:23:26] <maaku> xentrac: http://www.frys.com/product/8320217?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG | 11:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | if thats what it is | 11:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | its a baytrail-m, a member of the silvermont family | 11:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | 22nm, ivy bridge-era gpu, an atomfied haswell cpu core | 11:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | [01:21:45] <maaku> what is in the hp stream is not an atom -- it's a 64-bit out of order CPU | 11:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | so to properly answer that | 11:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | you have to define what an atom is | 11:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | if you mean the old almost-a-486 p6-esque atoms that were pure shit _only_, its not an atom | 11:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | if you define atom as anything that intel has called an atom, it "is" | 11:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | celeron has been split into two families, the bigger atoms, and the sub-i3 shit | 11:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | silvermont (baytrail, avoton, rangeley) are what I call "new atoms" | 11:26 |
| nmz787_i | Diablo-D3: my point was that there probably isn't something that says or looks like an "SD Card" inside the laptop... either there is one or two chips, controller and memory (or the controller is embedded in this package)... and these are either soldered onto the motherboard or they're on a mini-pcie card that can be popped off and replaced with some other card | 11:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | nmz787: yeah, theres probably no actual card in there, its just electronically there | 11:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | nmz787: depends on the device, a lot of really cheap $50-100 ultra-generic 7" tablets strangely _do_ have the card in there | 11:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im not sure why | 11:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | you wont know until you crack it open | 11:28 |
| nmz787_i | you gotta think about where this laptop is coming from, how its supply chain could possibly function (either downscaling on number of connectors, or using piles of now-cheap stock of mini-pcie connectors and some eMMC boards, etc) | 11:28 |
| nmz787_i | same reason I can surmise for how we get 64GB USB2.0 thumb drives for like $10-15 lately | 11:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah | 11:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | a lot of them are rather scary inside | 11:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | very low grade mmc or sd cards plugged into an adapter | 11:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | and just hot glued together | 11:30 |
| nmz787_i | sure memory is getting cheaper... but otherwise there's just some pile of 2.0 controllers that people are all moving away from, so the suppliers are selling them cheap | 11:30 |
| nmz787_i | haha | 11:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im not even kidding, I have seen this shit | 11:30 |
| nmz787_i | well whatever works, at least hot glue is user-replaceable | 11:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | you get maybe a couple writes out of it before the entire thing starts failing | 11:30 |
| nmz787_i | if they're not selling it as shock proof or milspec, or even childproof, then that seems OK | 11:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah | 11:31 |
| nmz787_i | ah, well that's no good | 11:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | but the problem is, its 64GB | 11:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | can you imagine writing 64GB at usb 2.0 speeds? | 11:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | it'd take you all day | 11:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | but yeah, back to the low end device shit | 11:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im all for $100 7" tablets that run full scale windows | 11:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | the problem is they dont have enough ram, and their disk io is shit | 11:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | most of them only have 1GB of ram and 32gb of very slow emmc | 11:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | they are thick as a brick, and use a pretty shitty (but still vaguely multitouch) 1024x800 or w/e lcd | 11:33 |
| nmz787_i | yeah the laptop I posted had at least 2GB | 11:33 |
| nmz787_i | but I agree, the 1GB is pretty awful | 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | 1gb is awful no matter what you do | 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | arm with android? its bad | 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | x86 with windows? its bad | 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | fun fact: I have an original generation kindle fire | 11:34 |
| nmz787_i | I have a $60 tablet with either a 2 or 4 core, running windows 8 or 8.1... and I stopped using it for a media center because it hung up with higher res vids | 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | the same thing as all these cheap 7" tablets | 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | dual core, 512mb of ram, 8gb of flash | 11:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | no microphone or camera | 11:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | or bluetooth | 11:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | just wifi and a non-otg usb | 11:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | _its so bad_ | 11:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | but yeah, airmont is the replacement for silvermont, its an atomfied broadwell, 14nm, the surface 3 uses one | 11:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | cpu wise, intel hit their stride for tiny devices | 11:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | we now have enough cpu power for general use without being retardedly slow | 11:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | whats murdering performance now is the lack of ram (100% of it is eaten by apps, you maaay be digging into swap, which that in of itself is making everything far worse) | 11:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | and the fact your disk io just doesnt exist | 11:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | merely saying its slow is not fully illustrating the issue at hand | 11:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | its a massive understatement | 11:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | if they could get a surface 3-esque device, without the pen, without the keyboard, without any of that magical goodness | 11:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | as a 7" tablet | 11:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | 32gb disk (which leaves you about 16ish left give or take) | 11:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | and 2gb of ram | 11:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | for $200 | 11:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'd buy it | 11:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | without question | 11:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | and I'd just rdp into my workstation all the time with it | 11:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | well, not all the time all the time, but whenever I have to do anything sufficiently big | 11:42 |
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| Diablo-D3 | like, just running a web browser, an email client, etc, can be done locally without pestering my desktop | 11:45 |
| xentrac | nmz787_i: hot glue is way more shockproof than many of the alternatives | 12:02 |
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| nmz787_i | yeah I was thinking if you really needed 2TB then just get a slim USB3 hdd | 12:05 |
| xentrac | yeah, possibly | 12:05 |
| nmz787_i | you could probably 3D print some case that incorporates it with batteries or something | 12:06 |
| nmz787_i | like a docking station or battery extender | 12:06 |
| chris_99 | you might be interested in this nmz787_i http://uk.farnell.com/cypress-semiconductor/cyusb3kit-003/dev-board-cyusb301x-usb-controller/dp/2448471 i'm thinking of getting one to attach an 80Msps ADC to the PC | 12:06 |
| nmz787_i | though that is a lot of work | 12:06 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: no luck with DMAing the ADC out to USB? | 12:06 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: you should check the progress of the daisho project | 12:07 |
| kanzure | .g "page fault liberation army" | 12:07 |
| yoleaux | https://events.ccc.de/congress/2012/Fahrplan/events/5265.en.html | 12:07 |
| chris_99 | i'm thinking i wouldn't get 80Msps out via usb 2 anyway, so i figure the FX3 is better better | 12:07 |
| chris_99 | *better bet | 12:07 |
| chris_99 | even | 12:07 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: well you could likely do on the fly compression with those 3 cores | 12:07 |
| chris_99 | the fx3 is usb3 though, and i also found some example code | 12:08 |
| nmz787_i | idk though | 12:08 |
| nmz787_i | price isn't too bad, but what about a fast adc? | 12:08 |
| chris_99 | sec | 12:08 |
| nmz787_i | just gonna send it from the lpc? | 12:08 |
| chris_99 | http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-search/en?keywords=AD9269BCPZ-80 | 12:08 |
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| chris_99 | 16 bit, 80Msps | 12:08 |
| chris_99 | i'm gonna attach that to the FX3 | 12:08 |
| chris_99 | when i have some cash | 12:09 |
| nmz787_i | hmm | 12:09 |
| nmz787_i | yeah that is the big downside IMO compared to the LPC4370 | 12:09 |
| nmz787_i | but I've also heard some stuff on noise of that on-chip ADC | 12:09 |
| chris_99 | ah, it's a shame the LPC4370 isn't usb3 heh | 12:10 |
| nmz787_i | (the cash is the downside) | 12:10 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: what about using the SPIflash interface to dump to sd card? | 12:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | [03:05:28] <nmz787_i> yeah I was thinking if you really needed 2TB then just get a slim USB3 hdd | 12:10 |
| nmz787_i | still not fast enough? | 12:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | the irony is when I needed an external 2TB, I just built one | 12:11 |
| xentrac | chris_99: is the ADC for a 40MHz oscilloscope or is this an SDR kind of application? | 12:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | 2TB 3.5" 5400rpm, the last of the samsung drives before they went to seagate, in a USB3 metal enclosure | 12:11 |
| nmz787_i | xentrac: harmonic emanations from keyboards | 12:11 |
| nmz787_i | so kinda SDR | 12:11 |
| chris_99 | nmz787_i, hmm not sure tbh. xentrac kind of, i want to do power analysis of things like a keyboard, laser printer, and this way i can just dump directly to PC for processing | 12:12 |
| xentrac | oh, for tempest attacks? | 12:12 |
| chris_99 | yeah | 12:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | someday 2TB 2.5" or ssd will exist and be cheap enough I can just throw that in a 2.5" enclosure instead | 12:12 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: for not too much more you could just get the new rigol 4 channel 50 MHz scope, which has ethernet... but maybe not gigabit, idk | 12:12 |
| chris_99 | i've got the rigol scope, the memory is tiny though | 12:13 |
| chris_99 | 1052e i have | 12:13 |
| nmz787_i | but that's only 8 bits | 12:13 |
| nmz787_i | nah the new one has mega memory | 12:13 |
| nmz787_i | 20Mpoints I think | 12:13 |
| chris_99 | which one is that | 12:13 |
| nmz787_i | with the hack/upgrade | 12:13 |
| nmz787_i | - Ability to train new team members and provide training to product customers | 12:13 |
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| nmz787_i | http://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/ds1000Z/ds1054z/ | 12:14 |
| nmz787_i | I guess the LAN is slow, as they only refer to it as LAN anywhere | 12:16 |
| chris_99 | yeah you won't get continuous output | 12:16 |
| chris_99 | from that | 12:16 |
| chris_99 | afaik | 12:16 |
| chris_99 | just the ability to dump the long memory i guess | 12:16 |
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| xentrac | what frequency band are the signals in? | 12:22 |
| chris_99 | the ps/2 keyboard one is very low around 16kHz (the clock rate of ps/2) | 12:22 |
| kanzure | 16 kilo samples/sec? that's not even enough for typing. | 12:23 |
| xentrac | so even a professional audio sound card would work | 12:23 |
| xentrac | kanzure: it's enough for humans to type at, just not posthuman AIs like you | 12:24 |
| chris_99 | 16khz is the ps/2 clock rate | 12:26 |
| nmz787_i | but you don't emanate a lot of signal, right, and that's why you need all the higher harmonics to increase SnR? | 12:29 |
| chris_99 | they actually filtered for the signal at around 16kHz, rather than a higher harmonic | 12:31 |
| chris_99 | afaik | 12:31 |
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| chris_99 | check this paper for laser printers that's pretty awesome - www.wil.waw.pl/art_prac/emission_security_of_laser_printers.pdf | 12:32 |
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| xentrac | nmz787_i: even 48kHz, the third harmonic, is within the capability of 96ksps pro audio sound cards | 12:38 |
| chris_99 | yeah maybe it'd be a good plan to start out with a soundcard | 12:38 |
| nmz787_i | I just guessed there was a reason, since they used a hifi o-scope and some SATA data dumping to get all the raw data | 12:39 |
| nmz787_i | maybe that was because they were doing more than just ps/2? | 12:39 |
| chris_99 | wait which paper do you mean nmz787_i, the blackhat one used an mcu @ 1Msps at some point | 12:40 |
| xentrac | 96ksps pro audio sound cards might have an analog front-end filter to attenuate 48kHz down into near nothingness though | 12:40 |
| nmz787_i | idk, one from the first link you sent a few days ago | 12:41 |
| nmz787_i | I only looked at one paper though | 12:41 |
| chris_99 | thats a different one i think nmz787_i, that was the one where they recieved the RF | 12:41 |
| chris_99 | this one is tapping the earth of a PC | 12:41 |
| xentrac | chris_99: this laser emissions paper has made me realize that for many years I was wrong when I thought that I understood how xerography worked | 12:46 |
| xentrac | or maybe I'm wrong now | 12:46 |
| xentrac | I thought the toner stuck to the parts of the drum that were *not* illuminated! | 12:46 |
| chris_99 | heh, i'm not sure which way round that is | 12:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | xentrac: uh, I thought it was the thingy zapped the parts that were meant to be black? | 12:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im not sure what that thing is called | 12:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | all I know is it gets very hot and smells like burning death | 12:48 |
| chris_99 | laser? | 12:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | chris_99: is it a normal laser though? | 12:49 |
| chris_99 | apparently it's a laser diode | 12:49 |
| chris_99 | not sure what wavelength | 12:49 |
| xentrac | it's a pretty normal laser | 12:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | I mean, like, almost my entire life HP has made the ubiquitous LaserJet | 12:50 |
| xentrac | I'm sure the ones in the 1970s weren't laser diodes | 12:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | but when I looked through the manuals, it had a word for the unit that I guess has the laser in it | 12:50 |
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| Diablo-D3 | but yeah, I always thought it was something involving extreme static charges, the laser paints the drum to add the charge to make the toner stick | 12:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | then you wipe the toner off on the paper, then bake the paper | 12:53 |
| chris_99 | there are static charges | 12:53 |
| chris_99 | the laser just effects them | 12:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_printing#Charging | 12:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | The laser beam neutralizes (or reverses) the charge on the black parts of the image, leaving a static electric negative image on the photoreceptor surface to lift the toner particles. | 12:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | so yeah, it seems to paint it to make the toner stick, not paint it to make it not stick | 12:55 |
| chris_99 | it'd be cool if they had a tiny van de graff generater in | 12:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | I find it amazing that process even works | 12:56 |
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| chris_99 | mmm | 12:57 |
| chris_99 | very clever | 12:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | Like, in a controlled condition, sure | 12:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | but like, up here in Maine, its frequent that we get very dry air indoors | 12:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | like, if you're not careful, ~15% humidity happens | 12:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | and you start zapping the shit out of everything | 12:57 |
| xentrac | Diablo-D3: so the paper is wrong | 12:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | xentrac: well, maybe it depends on the tech | 12:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | xentrac: wikipedia says it resets the drum with a negative charge, and then the laser paints a positive one where the negatively charged toner sticks to it | 12:58 |
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| Diablo-D3 | xentrac: what if you reset it with positive charge and then paint negative on it | 12:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | or reset negative charge, paint positive, but your toner is positive | 12:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | I assume any of these can be true | 12:59 |
| xentrac | well, what you paint is actually neutralization | 12:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | well yeah | 13:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | its neutralization in the sense the toner either sticks or doesn't stick | 13:00 |
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| Diablo-D3 | no/wrong charge | 13:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | xentrac: but you know what I mean | 13:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | the paper might not be wrong, just describing somebody else's patents | 13:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | because I know everything involving laser printers is patented up the wazoo | 13:01 |
| xentrac | I think most of the crucial patents expired in the 1990s | 13:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah, but look at like color stuff | 13:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | they're still developing that tech | 13:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | I imagine all sorts of weird shit goes on there | 13:02 |
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| nmz787_i | .wik photoelectric effect | 13:18 |
| nmz787_i | yo | 13:18 |
| yoleaux | "The photoelectric effect is the observation that many metals emit electrons when light shines upon them. Electrons emitted in this manner can be called photoelectrons. The phenomenon is commonly studied in electronic physics, as well as in fields of chemistry, such as quantum chemistry or electrochemistry." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoelectric_effect | 13:18 |
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| Diablo-D3 | http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/220962-new-hydrogen-discovery-could-help-make-room-temperature-superconductors-a-reality | 14:43 |
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| kanzure | https://github.com/offensive-security/exploit-database-bin-sploits/ | 17:41 |
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| AdrianG | Diablo-D3: we are most likely to discover some diamond-based room-temp superconductors than metallic hydrogen. | 19:28 |
| AdrianG | Diablo-D3: and then there is joe eck. idk what to even think. ever seen this? http://www.superconductors.org/author.htm | 19:30 |
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| heath | https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AoiI8f7YVGAJ:https://mitsloan.mit.edu/newsroom/2014-andrew-lo.php+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us | 21:00 |
| heath | .title | 21:00 |
| yoleaux | Financing a cure for cancer - Newsroom | 21:00 |
| juri_ | is there a cure for stupid yet? | 21:04 |
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| heath | juri_: i think stupid will always be around | 21:18 |
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