| --- Log opened Sun Jan 24 00:00:13 2016 | ||
| kanzure | hmph | 00:13 |
|---|---|---|
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| archels_ | "I believe that all digitized information past and present will be inevitably become known & public post facto." | 01:28 |
| archels_ | "> This would be the end of freedom. I'll go into the reasons if needed, but the discussion has happened a few times before. Suffice to say, if you're not allowed to have privacy, then you're not allowed to be free." | 01:31 |
| pompolic | what about perfect forward secrecy encryption though | 01:42 |
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| DiabloD3 | http://meaningness.com/metablog/sad-light-lumens | 03:20 |
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| chris_99 | https://github.com/dcunited001/mri-scans is cool, just loaded them into Slicer to play with | 03:40 |
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| kish | what's the etymology of the channel name here | 05:12 |
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| lkjhfr | kish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanity%2B | 05:23 |
| lkjhfr | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism | 05:27 |
| AdrianG | human+ | 05:27 |
| AdrianG | people are trying to upgrade themselves here, kish | 05:27 |
| kish | what about hp | 05:27 |
| kish | oh | 05:27 |
| kish | human plus road map | 05:27 |
| lkjhfr | :D | 05:28 |
| kish | there was a movie with depp | 05:28 |
| AdrianG | they stuffed him into a computer | 05:31 |
| AdrianG | and he went bonkers | 05:31 |
| lkjhfr | .wik transhumanism | 05:38 |
| yoleaux | "Transhumanism (abbreviated as H+ or h+) is an international and intellectual movement that aims to transform the human condition by developing and creating widely available sophisticated technologies to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism | 05:38 |
| lkjhfr | hah | 05:38 |
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| FourFire | I didn't realize this existed: http://imgur.com/gallery/NfeUe | 05:54 |
| lkjhfr | would transhumanism be of any use to a person who already is bonkers then? | 05:54 |
| FourFire | (survuval after being frozen solid) | 05:54 |
| FourFire | lkjhfr, so long as you aren't information-theretically dead, then there is still hope. | 05:54 |
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| FourFire | if cryonically induced damage can be reversed, then likely any mental illness can be cured or circumvented or altered in structure so as to make a whole person again | 05:55 |
| FourFire | even structural brain damage could be resolved depending on the locations and severity, by replacing the missing/damaged parts with generic neuron structures | 05:56 |
| kanzure | a little brain damage isn't the end of the world | 05:58 |
| FourFire | kish, that movie was freaking retarded and did most of the concepts involved a disservice. | 05:58 |
| kanzure | "CRISPR controversy reveals how badly journals handle conflicts of interest" http://www.statnews.com/2016/01/21/crispr-conflicts-of-interest/ | 06:01 |
| lkjhfr | would transhumanism help hollywood screenwriters write scripts that would make sense and be at least a little meaningful instead of them resorting to making their characters bonkers? | 06:02 |
| kanzure | haha you really think they have trouble writing other kinds of scripts? | 06:11 |
| lkjhfr | yes. i always thought that there must be something seriously wrong with a person if they write a script like that | 06:15 |
| pasky | this CRISPR controversy reminds me a bit of the deep learning controversy http://people.idsia.ch/~juergen/deep-learning-conspiracy.html | 06:20 |
| FourFire | lkjhfr, a story requires a conflict | 06:21 |
| FourFire | it seems to be difficult for hollywood to produce movies where the coolest part of the movie isn't Also the conflict | 06:22 |
| FourFire | it should be possible to make decent science fiction movies where the transhumanist aspect isn't also the conflict aspect, such as "Her" (which I don't personally think was a very great movie) | 06:23 |
| FourFire | Moon http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1182345/ was sort of like that. | 06:24 |
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| lkjhfr | i've seen many movies without conflicts, which are mostly pleasant to watch | 06:25 |
| lkjhfr | and interesting too | 06:25 |
| lkjhfr | and i've seen one person refer to movies as 'watching simulator' | 06:25 |
| lkjhfr | watching something doesn't require the thing to be dramatic | 06:25 |
| lkjhfr | also, going bonkers is not a conflict, its a tragedy. and if that person is then attacked by other people, it's tragedy squared. it's not conflict. | 06:32 |
| lkjhfr | and then, if someone makes a movie which presents such events, then it's basicallt tragedy cubed. because it is a tragedy in itself. | 06:35 |
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| TMA | lkjhfr: "pleasant" is not the most sought after quality from the marketing point of view. "shocking" is the most sought after ;; the film competes for the $$$/eyeballs/attention, unless you have other sound factors getting those, you pimp up the "shocking" part to gain the attention | 06:53 |
| kanzure | perhaps instead of worrying about hollywood you could instead write the story for the hplusroadmap manga | 06:54 |
| kanzure | which is lacking story at the moment :P | 06:56 |
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| lkjhfr | manga...nese? | 07:22 |
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| fenn | .wik manga | 08:08 |
| yoleaux | "Manga (漫画, Manga?) are comics created in Japan, or by creators in the Japanese language, conforming to a style developed in Japan in the late 19th century. They have a long and complex pre-history in earlier Japanese art." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga | 08:08 |
| lkjhfr | wouldn't drawing be an even bigger problem than writing the story? | 08:14 |
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| FourFire | lkjhfr, tragedy cubed... because someone made a bad movie? | 08:35 |
| FourFire | isn't a tragedy a conflict of interest which doesn't get resolved, or gets resolved in a way which triggers your mirror neurons? | 08:36 |
| lkjhfr | i don't have mirror neurons ];> | 08:39 |
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| lkjhfr | i do have some holographic film though | 08:57 |
| lkjhfr | i also have a plant that's completely covered in powdery mildew | 09:07 |
| lkjhfr | it only looks like a plant, it's not a plant anymore. | 09:07 |
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| FourFire | hmm, watching some of Stefan Molyneux' youtube channel | 09:13 |
| FourFire | is he a strong liberitarian (or whatever his political tag thing is) or a strawman of the the same? | 09:13 |
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| FourFire | sending an inquisitive message to bioviva, anyone here have contact with them? | 12:45 |
| FourFire | Message is about their gene therapy publicity stunt. | 12:46 |
| kanzure | nope,. | 12:49 |
| kanzure | why are you sending this? | 12:49 |
| FourFire | I have some questions, why should i not? | 12:49 |
| kanzure | because i didn't know you had questions? | 12:50 |
| kanzure | in absence of knowledge about you having questions then it would make sense to ask why send | 12:50 |
| FourFire | oh, do you have relevant knowledge of bioviva's actual treatment? | 12:50 |
| kanzure | some kind of adenovirus. | 12:51 |
| kanzure | it's in the logs | 12:51 |
| FourFire | what % of cells are realistically being altered? | 12:51 |
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| FourFire | hmm ok information isn't the only motivation for sending this message, andthe logs will not contain the answers to all my questions. | 12:53 |
| yashgaroth | AAV, and it's impossible to have a good idea what percent of cells are being transduced without an autopsy | 12:54 |
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| FourFire | sent the message, I wonder what their response will be | 13:07 |
| FourFire | I hope they actually are transhumanists... | 13:07 |
| FourFire | now, to bug John kheir asking why I can't buy a liquid oxygen syringe for my backpack yet... | 13:08 |
| docl | Liz is definitely transhumanist, based on her talks. not sure about the people she works with. | 13:14 |
| docl | .tit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87OUb8TBwX0 | 13:15 |
| FourFire | docl, Yes I get that impression | 13:15 |
| FourFire | I've seen talks | 13:15 |
| docl | .title | 13:15 |
| yoleaux | Liz Parrish speaks at People Unlimited on transcending the aging paradigm with gene therapy - YouTube | 13:15 |
| FourFire | And i sent John Kheir a slightly passie aggressive message asking why I can't buy his oxygen-lipid gel product yet. | 13:34 |
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| AdrianG | supposedly she's undergone her own gene therapy? | 13:46 |
| xentrac | hard core | 13:54 |
| AdrianG | so its just telomerase and follistatin-something. | 13:57 |
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| AdrianG | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22585399 | 14:02 |
| AdrianG | interesting | 14:02 |
| docl | .title | 14:11 |
| yoleaux | Telomerase gene therapy in adult and old mice delays aging and increases longevity without increasing cancer. - PubMed - NCBI | 14:11 |
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| kanzure | why do you guys act all surprise. read the logs. | 14:16 |
| kanzure | sigh. | 14:16 |
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| AdrianG | hard to keep current with everything. | 14:20 |
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| kanzure | that's pretty false | 14:23 |
| kanzure | did you even try? | 14:23 |
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| andytoshi | heh, i get 800 emails a day with various rss news items, git commits, etc, and i still miss a lot of stuff | 14:39 |
| andytoshi | even things that i'm pretty sure i subvocalized when they showed up on my screen | 14:40 |
| kanzure | i used to read the wikipedia and twitter firehose. for fun. | 14:44 |
| andytoshi | does anyone have experiene with the mifare desfire ev1 nfc chip? | 14:57 |
| andytoshi | this is what vancouver's transit system uses for their "compass cards". they contain a bunch of personal info 3des-encrypted, and i wonder what the protocol looks like | 14:58 |
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| docl | https://github.com/benbeezy/dollo interesting redesign of the reprap. most of the mechanical features are printable plastic. | 15:09 |
| docl | pics here http://3dprint.com/63229/dollo-3d-printer-prints-itself/ | 15:10 |
| xentrac | 18 hours and <1kg plstic is a big improvement over Snappy | 15:13 |
| xentrac | but I think Snappy has a much lower vitamin BoM cost | 15:14 |
| xentrac | Dollo looks janky as hell though | 15:15 |
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| Jenda` | DiabloD3: Ad. "sad-light" - friend of mine built one; the LEDs linked there cost 0.014 $/lm, you can get 20W 1250lm fluorescent lamp for less than $4 (0.003 $/lm). He had something like 20 of them for 25 klm output. | 15:21 |
| xentrac | also the cited inverse square law is not valid for spatially extended sources of light, only for point sources | 15:22 |
| xentrac | I was thinking that maye something like a phone booth with a mirrored inner surface would be ideal for fluorescent tube illumination | 15:22 |
| Jenda` | he had it on a 1x2 meter frame, mounted above the bed | 15:23 |
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| DiabloD3 | Jenda`: well the problem is, T5 efficiency is surprisingly high | 15:29 |
| DiabloD3 | and easier to get already assembled mounts with good reflectors | 15:30 |
| DiabloD3 | like, good triphosphor T5s can reach like 15% efficiency | 15:30 |
| DiabloD3 | those cheap LEDs? not usefully higher. | 15:31 |
| chris_99 | did you see the HMI lights mentioned in http://meaningness.com/metablog/sad-light-lumens | 15:36 |
| Jenda` | yes, that's the link he posted | 15:38 |
| chris_99 | ah | 15:38 |
| docl | xentrac: I wonder if someone could adapt the $3 motors from this thing to the dollo http://reprap.org/wiki/ToyREP | 15:38 |
| DiabloD3 | chris_99: HMI arent as fficient AND | 15:39 |
| DiabloD3 | they blow the fuck up | 15:39 |
| DiabloD3 | all the time | 15:39 |
| chris_99 | as efficient as florescent tubes? | 15:39 |
| DiabloD3 | holywood loves the fuck out of HMI, that isnt the first time Ive heard of them | 15:40 |
| chris_99 | according to wiki they have the same/similar efficiency | 15:41 |
| DiabloD3 | they're a very specific brand of metal halide lamp | 15:41 |
| DiabloD3 | they CAN be up to 17% | 15:41 |
| DiabloD3 | that specific brand isnt | 15:41 |
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| xentrac | is dude's concern for HMI toxicity well-founded? | 15:44 |
| DiabloD3 | xentrac: it blows up | 15:48 |
| DiabloD3 | they blow the fuck up | 15:48 |
| DiabloD3 | its like, a staple of holywood stories | 15:48 |
| DiabloD3 | like, remember the scene from indiana jones and the face melting nazis where | 15:48 |
| DiabloD3 | the lights blow up and the camera shorts out? | 15:48 |
| xentrac | okay, but explosions are a matter for Lexan, I think | 15:49 |
| xentrac | I mean we're not talking about an RPG here | 15:49 |
| xentrac | but toxicity could be a bigger deal | 15:49 |
| DiabloD3 | speilberg told a story on a dvd extra I think | 15:49 |
| xentrac | I'd think iodine would be relatively innocuous | 15:49 |
| DiabloD3 | where they understated how some of those lights blow up | 15:50 |
| DiabloD3 | xentrac: well, a) you need massive cooling for the lamp | 15:50 |
| DiabloD3 | and b) their housings are actually well built | 15:50 |
| DiabloD3 | so, lets go back about efficiency | 15:53 |
| DiabloD3 | 15% or less | 15:53 |
| DiabloD3 | for massive cost per lumen/watt | 15:53 |
| DiabloD3 | or literally walking into your local pot shot | 15:53 |
| DiabloD3 | get a 4 foot enclosure with 8 lamps | 15:53 |
| DiabloD3 | a good one with good reflectors and a good converter | 15:53 |
| DiabloD3 | and then get some good set of triphosphor T5 lamps | 15:54 |
| DiabloD3 | http://www.hmoonhydro.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_43&products_id=222 | 15:55 |
| DiabloD3 | like thats pretty average pricing | 15:56 |
| DiabloD3 | put the blue one in that 16 lamp enclosure? thats 76k lumens | 15:58 |
| DiabloD3 | and those style of enclosures focus the light from the back of the bulb around to the front really well | 16:00 |
| DiabloD3 | his shitty little reflector isnt as good, and isnt as focused | 16:00 |
| DiabloD3 | so given that, this is 2.5 times more raw output, and like 3-3.5ish times more output that gets to you | 16:01 |
| DiabloD3 | well, 3 times ish, Im giving is shitty reflector not enough credit | 16:02 |
| DiabloD3 | lets try the 6 lamp one, lets say, sure, about the same real world output | 16:05 |
| DiabloD3 | $225 + $72 = $297 | 16:06 |
| DiabloD3 | he paid over $400 to build his shit | 16:06 |
| DiabloD3 | $368 for the 8 lamp one, for 38k. | 16:07 |
| DiabloD3 | or about 13%. | 16:08 |
| DiabloD3 | efficacy | 16:08 |
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| DiabloD3 | and btw, you can mount them facing you instead of hanging from the cieling | 16:11 |
| DiabloD3 | people have built simple rigs that are just PVC pipes for like house water | 16:12 |
| DiabloD3 | just buy some T joints and some pipes in the right shape | 16:12 |
| DiabloD3 | and just hang it off them | 16:12 |
| DiabloD3 | xentrac: what I dont understand is | 16:14 |
| DiabloD3 | why he didnt just do that | 16:14 |
| xentrac | beats me. maybe misapplication of the inverse square law | 16:15 |
| DiabloD3 | well like | 16:15 |
| DiabloD3 | already mass produced for multiple bulbs | 16:15 |
| DiabloD3 | has nice well focused reflectors for this (nice angle for sitting infront of it but not just blasted straight at you 100%) | 16:15 |
| DiabloD3 | the bulbs are cheap and easy to get a lot | 16:16 |
| DiabloD3 | and btw, re: bulb brands, the quantum badboy HOs are good bulbs, but they arent the only ones | 16:17 |
| DiabloD3 | they just need to be T5 HOs, not normals (do they even make normal ones anymore?) or VHO/XHO | 16:17 |
| DiabloD3 | VHO exists, more output per bulb, more watts per bulb | 16:17 |
| DiabloD3 | but the bulbs fail faster, the enclosures cost more per lumen, and efficiency goes down | 16:18 |
| DiabloD3 | theres no real market for them | 16:18 |
| DiabloD3 | like, in plant growing, if you're not getting enough light to the plants, lower your lights | 16:19 |
| DiabloD3 | or use more bulbs | 16:19 |
| DiabloD3 | spending more per bulb, per enclosure, getting less life, and spending more on power doesnt really work | 16:20 |
| DiabloD3 | also, T5s survive pretty high temps | 16:20 |
| DiabloD3 | LEDs aren't even sure if they like room temp | 16:20 |
| DiabloD3 | xentrac: btw, what WOULD be interesting with the bulbs he has | 16:21 |
| DiabloD3 | they're just circuit boards | 16:21 |
| DiabloD3 | nothing really magic there | 16:22 |
| DiabloD3 | so they could be unrolled but be left plugged into the ballast base | 16:22 |
| DiabloD3 | this making his whole design so much simpler | 16:22 |
| DiabloD3 | and he could throw a much larger much more powerful fan behind them | 16:22 |
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| DiabloD3 | (they have an internal fan) | 16:23 |
| DiabloD3 | (it aint that great of one, but its a standard like 40mm fan or w/e) | 16:24 |
| DiabloD3 | (maybe smaller) | 16:25 |
| xentrac | they're not just circuit boards; they're primarily plumbing for coolant, I think | 16:25 |
| DiabloD3 | xentrac: well | 16:25 |
| DiabloD3 | they're circuit boards designed for that | 16:25 |
| DiabloD3 | but its like 10 circuit boards | 16:25 |
| DiabloD3 | plus another on the top to cap it | 16:25 |
| DiabloD3 | they use just normal shit to plug into the ballast | 16:25 |
| xentrac | that's like saying that a car is a stereo system designed to roll around, ignoring the engine | 16:26 |
| DiabloD3 | taking them apart is trivial | 16:26 |
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| DiabloD3 | xentrac: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJNsK4BNSDs | 16:29 |
| DiabloD3 | xentrac: disassembly of the smaller version of it | 16:30 |
| DiabloD3 | the bigger one the dude from the article used has the fan, this one lacks it but retains the vent holes internally | 16:30 |
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| erasmus | be nice if he could have plugged it in for us | 17:07 |
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| DiabloD3 | erasmus: that bright? | 17:16 |
| DiabloD3 | you'd just see a bright bulb-shaped blob | 17:16 |
| erasmus | untrue | 17:18 |
| erasmus | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c--5c3Egv4E | 17:19 |
| erasmus | proof | 17:19 |
| DiabloD3 | AHAHAHAHAHA | 17:22 |
| DiabloD3 | its just a gigantic heatsink with a shitload of copper heatpipes | 17:22 |
| DiabloD3 | with a box around it | 17:23 |
| DiabloD3 | like | 17:24 |
| DiabloD3 | is that a fucking standard cpu heatsink? | 17:25 |
| DiabloD3 | it looks like it | 17:25 |
| DiabloD3 | it still looks like half the size of the one in my workstation though | 17:26 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: this Liz Parrish person sounds very sketchy. | 17:29 |
| AdrianG | somebody on reddit said it was Steorn-level suspicious, and it seems that way. | 17:30 |
| AdrianG | does she have any history in biotech at all..? | 17:30 |
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| DiabloD3 | whos this liz chick? | 18:17 |
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| AdrianG | ceo of bioviv | 19:11 |
| AdrianG | bioviva. she's a nobody. | 19:11 |
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| DiabloD3 | I wish I was trolling, but... biowhovia? | 19:13 |
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| AdrianG | idk. like i said, shes a nobody. | 19:13 |
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| kanzure | http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-our-minds-live-forever/ | 19:25 |
| kanzure | oops nevermind. not much content. | 19:25 |
| kanzure | it was from the nectome people. | 19:25 |
| erasmus | who the hell wants to live forever? | 19:37 |
| AdrianG | erasmus: you may have to exit this chat. | 19:38 |
| erasmus | AdrianG I want you to die. | 19:39 |
| erasmus | so I can take your brain and put it into a preservation canister | 19:39 |
| erasmus | and keep it on my shelf and talk to it all day. | 19:39 |
| AdrianG | i am going to live forever, erasmus, so that i can totally piss you off by not dying. | 19:39 |
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| erasmus | lol | 19:39 |
| erasmus | I'll feed you a daily supply of fresh meth. | 19:40 |
| erasmus | kanzure is that the point of this channel? Do you also wish to live forever? | 19:41 |
| erasmus | I just wish to enjoy my time here and not get cancer. | 19:41 |
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| kanzure | wat | 20:11 |
| kanzure | what part of nectome did you not understand? please read the logs. | 20:11 |
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| jrayhawk | this channel is about the scrappy and adorable biological resistance front against the inevitable computronium takeover | 21:33 |
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| maaku | jrayhawk: i thought this channel was for engineering the computronium takeover | 23:38 |
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| jrayhawk | perhaps you meant to join a singularitarian channel instead of a transhumanist channel? | 23:40 |
| jrayhawk | i am not really sure what i am doing here, either, TBH | 23:40 |
| maaku | transhuman implies posthuman | 23:40 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Jan 25 00:00:14 2016 | ||
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