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| archels_ | .gc mnemotechnology | 03:06 |
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| yoleaux | archels_: Sorry, that command (.gc) crashed. | 03:06 |
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| kanzure | hmph | 05:15 |
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| JayDugger | You're lucky, maaku. I lost friends to conversations similar to the one you had with that notary. | 06:11 |
| JayDugger | Which is why I had that conversation with my girlfriend, THEN proposed. | 06:20 |
| fenn | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thetriumphofdeath.jpg | 06:22 |
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| kanzure | why are there wheels on top of their pointy yard sticks? | 06:36 |
| JayDugger | So the vultures and crows can pick at the corpses from above and below. | 06:36 |
| JayDugger | I don't know why the painting shows breaking wheels mounted atop poles. | 06:38 |
| JayDugger | So I'll stick with my that-is-not-a-torture-device-it-is-a-bird-feeder theory. | 06:40 |
| fenn | "The condemned prisoner was lashed to a large stout wagon wheel (or to a sturdy restraint if the available wagon wheel looked fragile) and then an executioner broke all of the prisoner’s limbs and joints with a cudgel or metal bar. Then the broken limbs were secured to (or threaded through) the spokes of the wheel and the prisoner was hoisted into the sky atop a pole. If the criminal was a | 06:42 |
| fenn | gifted briber or a likeable person, the executioner would make sure the beating was fatal. If however the victim was despised or came upon a particularly sadistic torturer (what are the odds of that?) he would probably end up hopelessly maimed but still alive to contend with dehydration and birds." | 06:42 |
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| JayDugger | I told you so! A bird feeder. | 06:46 |
| TMA | there is a theory that provides that the beating was done with the wheel itself. the theory also said that because of the bones becoming less frail over time as nutrition in the middle ages improved, the wheels gained more spikes to be more sturdy | 06:46 |
| TMA | proper progression is "vom Unten auf" from the bottom up, firs you break the toes, then the bones connecting the toes to the ankle, then the ankle; otherwise there might be a chance that you damage the nerves so that the criminal would not feel the pain of the more distant parts of his body breaking | 06:49 |
| TMA | one has to admire the scientific approach to cruelty | 06:50 |
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| kanzure | "But at least he was right about everything. That was nice at least." - midnightmagic | 07:37 |
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| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by lobsters everywhere, banned by the Federal Death Administration (5 times) | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | http://diyhpl.us/wiki | "ray kurzweil is a pessimist" - george church | 08:23 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] [Wed May 20 12:46:25 2015] | 08:23 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 08:23 | |
| [ _hanhart ] [ Burn_ ] [ erasei ] [ jron ] [ PatrickRobotham] [ streety ] | 08:23 | |
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| [ AdrianG ] [ CheckDavid ] [ fenn ] [ juul ] [ poppingtonic ] [ Taek ] | 08:23 | |
| [ Alcyius ] [ chris_99 ] [ fleshtheworld] [ kanzure ] [ proofoflogic ] [ TeMPOraL ] | 08:23 | |
| [ amiller_ ] [ cluckj ] [ FourFire ] [ lkjhfr ] [ Proteus ] [ the8thbit] | 08:23 | |
| [ andytoshi ] [ cpopell6 ] [ gnusha ] [ m0b ] [ psyreal ] [ thundara_] | 08:23 | |
| [ archels_ ] [ crescendo ] [ gnusha_ ] [ maaku ] [ rancyd ] [ TMA ] | 08:23 | |
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| [ balrog ] [ dpk ] [ indiebio_ ] [ nickjohnson ] [ sh ] [ yoleaux ] | 08:23 | |
| [ berndj ] [ drethelin ] [ Jawmare ] [ night ] [ sivoais ] [ yorick ] | 08:23 | |
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| [ btcdrak ] [ enkiv2 ] [ jrayhawk ] [ pasky ] [ strangewarp ] | 08:23 | |
| -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 105 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 105 normal] | 08:23 | |
| -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 | 08:23 | |
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| paperborrow | paperbot. WHY YOU NO HERE? | 08:49 |
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| kanzure | paperbot was recycled into a trash compactor | 09:20 |
| kanzure | seemed appropriate at the time. | 09:20 |
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| chris_99 | poor paperbot :'( | 09:53 |
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| fenn | go AI now at world champion level: http://recode.net/2016/01/27/google-beats-facebook-in-race-to-beat-unbeatable-game/ | 11:18 |
| fenn | supposedly there was a recent jump of a couple hundred Elo ranking points (that's a lot) | 11:18 |
| fenn | http://www.nature.com/news/google-ai-algorithm-masters-ancient-game-of-go-1.19234 | 11:19 |
| chris_99 | not that i know much about Go, apparently that was against a 2 dan player. They say they're playing one of the strongest plays soon too on HN | 11:20 |
| chris_99 | *players | 11:20 |
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| fenn | all the press says "google AI" but it's from a company called Deep Mind acquired in 2014, started by Shane Legg (AIXI and Marcus Hutter's student) Demis Hassabis (neuroscientist and chess player) and | 11:24 |
| chris_99 | is deepmind the company that built Torch | 11:25 |
| fenn | mustafa suleyman who is now "head of applied AI" at google | 11:25 |
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| fenn | one of the authors of torch (Koray Kavukcuoglu) is employed at deep mind, i don't know if he wrote it while employed | 11:27 |
| chris_99 | aha | 11:28 |
| fenn | it looks like Ronan Collobert has been working on Torch since 2002 | 11:30 |
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| kanzure | nectome is starting to send out newsletters, so i think this means they are still around | 11:32 |
| pasky | chris_99: it's 2pro dan, completely different league from up to now | 11:33 |
| chris_99 | ah yeah, sorry i just looked at the graph they have on that in their blog article | 11:34 |
| pasky | there might be some more tweaks required to beating the truly top, but no matter | 11:34 |
| chris_99 | i wouldn't mind putting a bet on them beating the top player | 11:34 |
| pasky | ai really is leaping forward quickly, i wouldn't predict this result at all in next couple of years and i know a thing or two about compuetr go | 11:35 |
| pasky | (cited twice in https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-data/assets/papers/deepmind-mastering-go.pdf) | 11:35 |
| chris_99 | Out of interest, this looks a decent price for EEG electrodes right - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350913692343 ? | 11:39 |
| fenn | pachi! | 11:39 |
| fenn | it says pachi is KGS rank "2d" - what would the equivalent "2pro dan" rank be? | 11:42 |
| fenn | or is that completely off the KGS scale | 11:43 |
| pasky | ~7d | 11:47 |
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| kanzure | "iq required to blow up the planet" quote is stupid. the planet doesn't ask you your iq before you blow it up. in fact planets have blown up for not only low-iq asteroid impacts but also low-kolmogorov-complexity objects in the past.... | 14:47 |
| chris_99 | heh | 14:47 |
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| streety | was it openSCAD that was thought to be the best of the bunch for CAD or am I mixing it up with something else? | 15:58 |
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| kanzure | solidworks. | 16:07 |
| streety | limiting to open source / free software | 16:11 |
| kanzure | brlcad for stability and reliability; verbnurbs for basic surface-level work and javascript weirdness; solvespace for a strange option; freecad for crashy unmaintainable noise. | 16:20 |
| kanzure | freecad for crashy unmaintainable but fancy-looking noise.... | 16:20 |
| fenn | solvespace, heekscad | 16:20 |
| kanzure | heekscad stopped a few years ago didn't it | 16:21 |
| fenn | oh i didn't know that | 16:21 |
| kanzure | hmm it's on google code i wonder if anyone has rescued it. didn't google code sunset recently? | 16:22 |
| kanzure | "In March 2015, Google announced that it would be closing down Google Code on January 15, 2016" but why is it still up | 16:26 |
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| streety | thanks, I think I'm close to a working model in openSCAD but I'll take a look at brlcad next time | 16:31 |
| jrayhawk | http://programs.pacificbiosciences.com/e/1652/smrtgrant/3j8jxz/492360097 sequencing grant up for grabs | 16:32 |
| jrayhawk | PacBio's machines can notably do epigenetic sequencing | 16:32 |
| kanzure | parahsailin has forsaken us :( | 16:34 |
| kanzure | i should mail him a box of regret | 16:35 |
| kanzure | and a pacbio machine | 16:35 |
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| lkjhfr | does that go solving ai milestone mean anything? should i be scared? | 17:20 |
| kanzure | i don't think anyone thought of that as an ai milestone before this announcement. indeed they didn't think that before chess either. | 17:21 |
| drethelin | lots of poeple did actually | 17:22 |
| kanzure | but... why? there are even **people** that can't play chess. it's totally missing the point of ai. | 17:23 |
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| lkjhfr | is there something i could read to understand this? i am a complete noob | 17:30 |
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| kanzure | there is not a lot of material out there arguing against the conflation of algorithmic search for human-cortical information processing. | 17:37 |
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| maaku | kanzure: because nobody remembered to shut google code off. sssshhhh don't tell anybody | 17:44 |
| justanotheruser | how much does it even cost google to host that read only? | 17:49 |
| kanzure | probably irrelevant considering amount of good-will it buys them, vs. amount of ill-will it would cost them with developers if they were to vanish the data over night. | 17:51 |
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| AdrianG | kanzure: do you know any blockchain engineers looking for new opportunities | 17:57 |
| AdrianG | remote ok | 17:57 |
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| kanzure | nope, everyone keeps getting hired | 18:04 |
| AdrianG | god damn nearly impossible to find anyone half decent even | 18:07 |
| kanzure | have you considered paying more? | 18:08 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: money is not a problem here, just lack of talent | 18:10 |
| AdrianG | available talent, that is. | 18:10 |
| kanzure | everyone has their price, even me :) | 18:12 |
| AdrianG | oic what you are suggesting | 18:12 |
| AdrianG | the problem there seems to be either a lot of experienced people, who would be a bad fit for the role | 18:13 |
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| AdrianG | or people who have no real experience, and wouldnt be a good fit because of lack of experieence | 18:14 |
| AdrianG | and senior people idk, maybe. its not a lead/senior role really. | 18:14 |
| AdrianG | and most senior people dont want to jump ship anyway it seems. | 18:15 |
| kanzure | sounds like you're getting underpaid. | 18:15 |
| AdrianG | why? | 18:15 |
| AdrianG | that the company is stingy on money ? | 18:16 |
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| kanzure | right. | 18:16 |
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| AdrianG | idk. | 18:18 |
| AdrianG | i doubt it, we're very well funded. | 18:19 |
| AdrianG | and have revenue, etc. | 18:19 |
| AdrianG | money isnt a problem, just a very niche market still. | 18:19 |
| AdrianG | and we need an employee, mostly people just want to consult only. | 18:19 |
| AdrianG | i guess its the employee part, more than anything, that is the problem. | 18:19 |
| AdrianG | why the aversion, do you know? | 18:21 |
| kanzure | you're not paying enough. | 18:24 |
| AdrianG | we would pay them whatever they are asking, if they'd fit the bill | 18:24 |
| kanzure | somehow i get the impression that you can't afford me :) | 18:25 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: i dont set the salary, idk how much you ask | 18:25 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: i dont think you personally would be interested, also. | 18:26 |
| kanzure | nah that's why i demand high pay, you think i truly want to be doing this stuff? | 18:27 |
| AdrianG | idk what you do at the moment | 18:29 |
| kanzure | everything, but mostly software | 18:30 |
| AdrianG | lol | 18:30 |
| AdrianG | if you dont want to do it, why do it at all? | 18:30 |
| AdrianG | life is to short to do things you are not interested in. | 18:30 |
| kanzure | cryonics and other dangerous ventures requires lots and lots of capital. | 18:31 |
| AdrianG | you could easily get into gerontology, if you are so set on that field | 18:32 |
| kanzure | haha fields | 18:33 |
| kanzure | let's try to avoid bullshit alright? | 18:33 |
| AdrianG | ? | 18:33 |
| AdrianG | bio is very different field from software. | 18:33 |
| AdrianG | why necesarily field = bs? | 18:34 |
| AdrianG | sure, you could call it "line of work", but thats too many letters. | 18:34 |
| kanzure | you are fundamentally wrong; all work is essentially the same. the principles of doing correct and high-quality work are almost all universally the same. | 18:35 |
| kanzure | and i also refuse to be typecasted as fields or lines or whatever, that's insane and useless; i'll do whatever i need to do, why should i care what field it happens to be? | 18:35 |
| kanzure | that's infuriating. why are you in here? | 18:36 |
| AdrianG | princples might be the same, slightly different demands tho | 18:36 |
| AdrianG | a lot more rote memorization | 18:36 |
| AdrianG | sheesh | 18:36 |
| kanzure | i hate you. | 18:36 |
| AdrianG | you're talking things a little too literally, imo | 18:36 |
| kanzure | and you're wasting our time. | 18:37 |
| AdrianG | you really, really, don't believe specialization has value? | 18:37 |
| kanzure | specialization is for insects | 18:38 |
| AdrianG | I refuse to change diapers, personally. | 18:40 |
| kanzure | that's not specialization | 18:40 |
| AdrianG | wasnt it part of that quote? hehe | 18:41 |
| kanzure | why are you here, again? | 18:41 |
| kanzure | yes heinlein was a butthead, so what | 18:41 |
| AdrianG | in this chat? because im interested in transhumanism | 18:41 |
| kanzure | i don't think that's a good reason | 18:41 |
| AdrianG | this chat is only for people interested in cryonics, let me guess? | 18:42 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/hplusroadmap | 18:43 |
| kanzure | if you are just going to complain about fields and specialization or whatever, then get out | 18:43 |
| AdrianG | who said anything about complaining? | 18:43 |
| AdrianG | thats just your perception. | 18:43 |
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| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+q AdrianG!*@*] by kanzure | 18:44 | |
| @kanzure | what a waste of time. | 18:45 |
| lkjhfr | i am amazed at how polite you are | 18:45 |
| @kanzure | yeah me too | 18:46 |
| @kanzure | AdrianG: this is not a general interest channel. i'll unmute you when you have something to contribute to the group. fields are an overwhelmingly bad idea, and you have shown no indication that you are trying to contribute particularly strong ideas to the group ever since i started hating you years ago. thanks. | 18:50 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by kanzure | 18:51 | |
| kanzure | .wik anelosimus eximius | 18:54 |
| yoleaux | "Anelosimus eximius is a species of social spider in the genus Anelosimus, native to the Lesser Antilles and the area from Panama to Argentina. Colonies can comprise several thousand individuals." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anelosimus_eximius | 18:54 |
| kanzure | .wik stegodyphus sarasinorum | 18:55 |
| yoleaux | "Stegodyphus is a genus of araneomorph spiders in the family Eresidae. The 21 species are distributed from Africa to Europe and Asia, with two species (S. manaus and S. annulipes) found in Brazil." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stegodyphus | 18:55 |
| kanzure | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_spider | 18:56 |
| kanzure | lkjhfr: not sure if you were asking for machine learning reading materials. if you were, then see https://github.com/josephmisiti/awesome-machine-learning/blob/master/books.md | 18:57 |
| kanzure | .title https://crispr.bme.gatech.edu/ | 18:59 |
| yoleaux | CRISPR Target Search | 18:59 |
| kanzure | http://www.technologyreview.com/news/543181/crispr-gene-editing-to-be-tested-on-people-by-2017-says-editas/ | 19:01 |
| kanzure | https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-data/assets/papers/deepmind-mastering-go.pdf | 19:01 |
| kanzure | various snps http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/psychological_traits_snp.shtml | 19:02 |
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| erasmus | today was the day J. D. Salinger died. | 19:22 |
| kanzure | not true. | 19:23 |
| kanzure | that was years ago | 19:23 |
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| lkjhfr | i guess i was more like asking: what will be a significant breakthrough in ai, and how to recognize it? | 19:32 |
| lkjhfr | you said that what deepmind did doesn't bring us any closer to emulating the way humans think, but is this a necessary for ai to be powerful and scary? | 19:34 |
| kanzure | powerful and scarcy sounds really ambiguous | 19:34 |
| kanzure | non-ai can do that. | 19:34 |
| lkjhfr | powerful meaning superhuman | 19:35 |
| kanzure | actually, even sub-human ai would be a "breakthrough"- something on the intellectual level of a bonobo or something. | 19:35 |
| kanzure | ai does not need to be explicitly superhuman or whatever. | 19:36 |
| kanzure | there would be a tremendous utility to merely human-level ai | 19:36 |
| kanzure | or even slightly-not-quite-human ai, but still something obviously dumb | 19:36 |
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| kanzure | generally there are not many useful proposals for psychometric tests of machine let alone biological cognitive ability | 19:38 |
| kanzure | one of the suggestions in the literature from a few decades ago was "well, put the machine through a typical educational curriculum and see what happens". although this doesn't factor out human socialization or human interfacing.... which is unfortunate and probably a non-starter in a few ways. but maybe with supervised machine-specific training, of roughly equivalent content? maybe. | 19:39 |
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| kanzure | as for hard takeoff scenarios, you get a wonderful array of lovely indicators such as grey goo, computronium walls approaching you at nearly the speed of light, a million new friends in a suspiciously short timeframe, total destruction of the planet and/or biological life, stuff like that. in many cases these can also be had by other non-ai means too, so they are not completely reliable indicators. | 19:41 |
| kanzure | re: education curriculum as a method of testing, it is unclear to me whether the "raise a chimp as a human" studies had actual 24/7 contact similar to that of a human child. someone else in here (probably fenn) mentioned this a while ago. | 19:42 |
| lkjhfr | so... this will still take a few years at the very least | 19:48 |
| kanzure | for what? | 19:49 |
| lkjhfr | you posted quarter of a million messages here, were referenced tenth times as many, 30 times asked the "why are you here" question. i am sure answers to my questions are somewhere between there, i feel like just i'd be just wasting your time asking for something that's already logged, your first answer was good enough | 20:06 |
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| Proteus | Has anyone here played with Cpf1? | 20:19 |
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| Alcyius | Those of you with training in environmental sciences. If we could efficiently remove CO2 from the air, would there be a need to conserve fossil fuels anymore? | 21:10 |
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| kanzure | lkjhfr: anyone is welcome to stay as long as they don't cause too much noise, usually. | 21:48 |
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| pasky | kanzure: how do we know our machines aren't on the bonobo level right now? there's little motivation to build an actual bonobo emulator | 22:52 |
| Alcyius | BonobOS | 23:05 |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jan 28 00:00:17 2016 | ||
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