2016-03-29.log

--- Log opened Tue Mar 29 00:00:13 2016
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kanzure"CRISPR-mediated direct mutation of cancer genes in the mouse liver" http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v514/n7522/abs/nature13589.html10:39
kanzure"Elimination of HIV-1 Genomes from Human T-lymphoid Cells by CRISPR/Cas9 Gene Editing" http://www.nature.com/articles/srep2255510:39
kanzure"HIV-1 proviral DNA excision using an evolved recombinase." https://publications.mpi-cbg.de/Sarkar_2007_932.pdf10:41
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esmereldaThat's amazing11:17
esmereldaKanzure, are they having to do shock & kill? What if the viral genome is wound inside a histone?11:17
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nmz787_iabetusk_: yeah not making PCBs, though I've considered it. goal is microfluidics, but I progress slowly... I think I'll get there someday (this year)12:35
nmz787_ithundara_: I believe you're spot-on12:38
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nmz787_ithundara_: do you know about EELS (electron energy loss spectroscopy), serial block face scanning electron microscopy, electron microprobe, cryo-electron tomography12:40
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thundara_Negative13:12
thundara_I just know that one as the third method to X-tallography and SAXS that the ALS offered but people didn't really use13:12
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nmz787_ials as in .wik als   ?13:27
nmz787_i.wik als13:27
yoleaux"ALS or Als may mean:" — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Als13:27
nmz787_i.wik Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis 13:27
yoleaux"Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) is a specific disorder that involves the death of neurons. In a number of countries, the term motor neurone disease (MND) is commonly used, while others use that term for a group of five conditions of which ALS is the most common." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amyotrophic_Lateral_Sclerosis13:27
nmz787_ithundara: I'm guessing you don't mean that disease... but this stuff, especially the cryo stuff, is very neat indeed... the cryo part almost eliminates molecular jitter, so you again don't need crystals to achieve atomic data13:33
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thundaranmz787_i: Advanced Light Source at Lawrence Berkeley National Lab13:51
thundaraA synchrotron13:51
thundaraI don't understand the X-ray microscopy stuff at all (I barely understood SAXS while I was there)13:51
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nmz787_ithundara: just remember photons of any color, or electrons, are just waves... so they all function in quite similar ways (difference for imaging is mostly the wavelength or the charge, in the case of electrons or ions)15:28
nmz787_ithere is even neutral-atom-microscopy, using something like Helium15:29
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nsh.title http://www.nickpinkston.com/2011/11/physics-and-economies-of-scale.html17:35
yoleauxnsh: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page.17:35
nshshut up17:35
nsh.title http://tbiomed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1742-4682-6-617:35
yoleauxScale-free flow of life: on the biology, economics, and physics of the cell | Theoretical Biology and Medical Modelling | Full Text17:35
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nsh'The present work is intended to demonstrate that most of the paradoxes, controversies, and contradictions accumulated in molecular and cell biology over many years of research can be readily resolved if the cell and living systems in general are re-interpreted within an alternative paradigm of biological organization that is based on the concepts and empirical laws of nonequilibrium thermodynamics. I17:35
nshn addition to resolving paradoxes and controversies, the proposed re-conceptualization of the cell and biological organization reveals hitherto unappreciated connections among many seemingly disparate phenomena and observations, and provides new and powerful insights into the universal principles governing the emergence and organizational dynamics of living systems on each and every scale of biologica17:35
nshl organizational hierarchy, from proteins and cells to economies and ecologies.'17:35
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nmz787I can just send someone a bitcoin wallet, right?18:44
nmz787like one I have in a text file?18:44
nmz787there's nothing in it I need to strip, right?18:44
nmz787ugh, google.... can't sort app reviews by 'worst first', only by 'nest first'18:55
nmz787best*18:55
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nmz787kanzure: do you dvelop for 'bitcoin core'?19:21
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nmz787kanzure: please complain about loopback transactions for me... I just got charged to send a bitcoin to the wallet it originated from (accidentally, but why the hell should I be charged, the transaction should never have went through since source==dest)19:54
xentrac_that sounds amusing19:55
xentrac_how much did you get charged?19:55
xentrac_presumably the network doesn't know that the source address and the destination address are in the same wallet, right?  I guess I might be saying idiocies here because of my loose grasp of how Bitcoin works19:59
kanzurenmz787: i have no idea what a loopback transaction is20:03
kanzurenmz787: but yes i am considered a bitcoin core developer at this point20:03
nmz787you don't know what a loopback is???20:04
kanzurenot in this context20:04
nmz787I actually can't tell if the transaction went through or not20:04
kanzurewhat's the transaction id?20:04
nmz787sender is same as receiver20:04
nmz787no idea how to get that info20:04
nmz787(using electrum)20:04
kanzurenmz787: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/e3d64a469dd78137a3b80e4c5ca7e4090adaf8ab/lib/commands.py#L43520:06
kanzurein this case the value that you want is tx_hash20:07
kanzurei believe there's a command prompt or python interpreter in electrum, too20:08
nmz787appears only to be history() for 2014 dates20:08
nmz787so I guess the transaction didn't go through?20:09
nmz787so if I didn't hit broadcast, it wasn't transacted?20:09
kanzurebroadcast is definitely a requirement for the bitcoin network to learn about your transaction20:10
nmz787OH20:11
kanzureit's possible that electru's history() function only shows confirmed transactions in the blockchain20:11
nmz787not at all apparent20:11
kanzure*electrum's20:11
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nmz787what is a good test -send amount?20:16
kanzureif you want to test, you should use regtest (instant) or testnet (fake money)20:18
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nmz787hmm, i got rejected from sending 0.0001 millibitcoins20:22
kanzure"dust" transactions are usually rejected, unless you have a high fee, but even then there are nodes on the network that have a minimum amount necessary before they will relay your bitcoin transaction20:23
nmz787so it seems I have no other way to test using electrum20:24
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kanzurenmz787: what are you trying to test?20:25
kanzureelectrum probably has unit tests of its own that you can run20:26
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nmz787just that the receiver ID is correct20:28
nmz787he sent it to me in SMS20:28
nmz787had some bitcoin: notation20:28
nmz787the software didn't seem to like the hyphen in the middle, so I removed that20:29
nmz787and then I ignored post ? since I assumed that was a different data segment (for the amount)20:29
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kanzurenmz787: if you want to PM me the details i'll take a look, but it sounds like you have figured out that you do in fact need to broadcast the transaction20:39
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nmz787kanzure: well that was on the 'sweep keys' interface (I tried sweeping the same priv key into the priv key that started the wallet in electrum)20:49
nmz787now I am trying to send milk+cream money20:49
nmz787but was manually copying the address from SMS (which included a hypen) (which upon copying and pasting to a browser URL bar, to check on blockchain.info, I found was only visual, and not in the copy-paste buffer)20:50
nmz787the same transaction shows up on laptop and phone, so I think I got it right20:50
nmz787thankfully the hyphen is not part of bitcoin addresses (or it added an extra character to the address length limit)20:51
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nmz787I would be super pissed if Android changing the data for visual line breaking caused me to mis-send money20:52
kanzure"sweep keys" seems like the wrong feature if the SMS data gave you only a bitcoin address20:52
nmz787nah that was a prior operation20:52
nmz787i figured screw it for now, I wouldn't sweep20:53
nmz787some stackoverflow post was saying never import keys for a wallet20:53
nmz787but they seemed to be concerned with security of physical keys or something20:54
kanzurecan you show me the post in question?20:54
nmz787http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/29948/why-doc-says-importing-private-keys-is-so-dangerous/29959#29959?newreg=e41af27fe5404846b41053c02696985920:54
nmz787well I shouldn't have pasted all that20:55
nmz787but oh well20:55
nmz787also this http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/18619/why-so-many-warnings-about-importing-private-keys20:55
nmz787(I commented on the first question's answer)20:55
kanzureone of the reasons why they recommend against importing private keys is because in bitcoind (the default bitcoin implementation) you might have a backup of your wallet file but adding a private key to the wallet, then losing the wallet means that your backup does not contain the new private key. this has snagged a lot of people, because the behavior isn't the same in the other direction (that is: with the default wallet, there's a number ...20:56
kanzure... of bitcoin addresses and private keys that are pre-generated and waiting for usage. but it doesn't include the private key that you might import in the future.)20:56
kanzureso when bitcoind launches, the wallet file is given a pre-generated set of maybe 100 private keys for 100 different bitcoin addresses (pay-to-pubkeyhash (P2PKH)). if you take an immediate backup, even if you have never used any of those addresses before taking the backup, the private keys will still be in the backup file.20:57
kanzureand as you can imagine-- users might mistake that neat feature for something like "oh if i import a custom private key, the backup will automagically have that information" and nope it wont because backups only have whatever information they had at the time that the backup was created20:58
kanzureyour second stackoverflow link presents an interesting scenario: imagine a paper wallet with a private key given to some victim, who adds the private key into their bitcoin wallet, and perhaps their bitcoin wallet software then uses that private key regularly. this is a problem because wallet software might (especially if it was poorly written software!) send more BTC to that address since "well it's our private key, right?" which is a ...21:00
kanzure... bad assumption because the originator (the original person) has access to that private key too-- he gave it to you, after all...21:00
nmz787I guess in this case, I dumped the key to myself I think21:01
nmz787(I really don't remember, which is why I originally was going to play it safe and sweep it)21:02
nmz787(but I think I was trying to sweep it into itself, thus I called it a loopback) (but this didn't seem to broadcast, so I don't think I went through with this pointless transaction)21:02
nmz787(but it is not clear that BROADCAST==INITIATE_TRANSACTION21:03
nmz787)21:03
kanzureinitiation is a difficult concept in bitcoin land....21:03
kanzureif you create and sign a transaction, is it initiated even if not sent to the network?21:04
nmz787I guess not?21:04
kanzureto make this even more complex, sometimes people hand a signed unconfirmed transaction to another person who can then (at their convenience) broadcast the transaction into the network. as far as the originator is concerned, the transaction was "initiated" the moment he handed it off to the other person. but the network still hasn't seen the transaction yet.21:05
nmz787farmer says "i've never had it take more than 30 secs" (to transact)21:08
nmz787this is the supposed transaction I made https://blockchain.info/tx/aee2320b6e9bb536e83a331675eb3712c7cec8655cc41c86e048b0796aa7c2eb21:09
kanzuregreat now you have deanonymized yourself :P21:11
kanzureyou had a 0.00001 BTC fee, a 0.00001 BTC output, and a 0.99998 BTC output21:12
nmz787so apparently he is using mycelium, so maybe that's why it takes only 30 secs?21:13
nmz787(for his prev transactions)21:14
kanzurebitcoin transactions take on average about 10 minutes to confirm, 30 seconds is wildly unlikely21:14
kanzurehe probably just means network propagation of the unconfirmed transaction21:14
nmz787idk, he hasn't seen anything show up, as he put it21:14
kanzureunconfirmed transactions mean that they have not been added to the blockchain but they might be broadcasted to a large number of nodes on the network (or not!)21:14
nmz787and i did this maybe 30 mins ago now21:15
kanzureare you sure one of the outputs is his bitcoin address?21:15
nmz787some post online said avg is 1 hour for 6 blocks of periods or some shit21:15
nmz787it came from his SMS message21:15
kanzureso you have physically confirmed that the bitcoin address in the list of outputs is the one that he gave you?21:15
nmz787when I pasted it from the sms to the browser,the same transaction code shows up as is on my laptop21:16
kanzuresend it to me by PM21:16
nmz787it looks like it is in the page i just sent21:17
nmz787the blockchain transaction21:17
kanzureah okay.21:17
nmz787the one getting the tiny microbtc21:18
kanzurehis mycelium client might be configured to only show transactions after 6 confirmations, but this is a somewhat unusual configuration-- usually bitcoin wallets will show unconfirmed transactions21:18
nmz787yeah idk21:18
nmz787what is weird is when I click the adddress, i.e. https://blockchain.info/address/1E9pdHRGnpJSerSnBUpc2J6jXe6SLznVoS?sort=021:18
nmz787i only see that transaction, no prev, like he mentioned about (prev transactions taking 30 secs)21:19
kanzurein bitcoin land, when someone gives you a bitcoin address, it's usually a new and unique bitcoin address21:19
nmz787lame21:19
kanzurepersonally i have many thousands of bitcoin addresses that i use for myself21:19
nmz787that's a disorder21:20
kanzuree.g. i never keep more than ~$50 together21:20
nmz787it's in the DSM-IV21:20
kanzurewell the idea is that when i spend any bitcoin funds, i don't want everyone and their dog to know how much money i have21:20
nmz787yeah I was thinking about that21:20
kanzureseems like one of those privacy things, huh?21:20
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nmz787this slowness seems annoyyin21:20
nmz787annoying*21:21
kanzureyour transaction fee is uncharacteristically low, but it's not your fault (electrum doesn't do transaction fee estimation, i think)21:21
kanzuremycelium might do transaction fee estimation21:21
kanzureanyway, since you are transacting 1 BTC, it's likely that the transaction will be picked up by a miner21:21
nmz787i actually tried to make it go as low as i could in the GUI21:21
kanzuretransaction priority is determined by transaction fee amount but also things like "size of bitcoin inputs"21:22
kanzures/size/amount21:22
nmz787is there a way to estimate shipping charges?21:22
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kanzureis that a bitcoin question?21:22
nmz787it would have been nice to know if I could have got better speed for some stupid cheap amount21:23
nmz787yeah21:23
kanzureyes there are ways to do transaction fee estimation--- i think bitcoind does this (the default wallet) but uh, you might want to just go try mycelium21:23
kanzuremycelium is probably more user friendly than electrum21:23
kanzureplus there's an android client21:23
nmz787well at least electrum let me type in the key... the android wallet thing wanted to use the camera only21:24
nmz787and doesn't do OCR apparently21:24
nmz787(tried pointing it at the text editor)21:24
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kanzurethe lazy way to figure out transaction fees is to use something like https://bitcoinfees.21.co/21:25
kanzureoh that only shows "fee per byte" uh... one sec.21:25
kanzure"For the median transaction size of 226 bytes, this results in a fee of 6,780 satoshis (0.02$)."21:25
kanzure"The fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 30 satoshis/byte, shown in green at the top."21:26
kanzureokay well there you go-- for now it is probably accurate to just say $0.01 or $0.02 in transaction fees to get good results.21:27
nmz787damn mycelium app won't let me type the key in21:29
nmz787who does UX for these apps, such that normal nerds can't use them?21:30
nmz787it only allows camera, clipboard, some trezor-account, ledger-account, random-key21:31
nmz787so dumb21:31
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nmz787kanzure: so I can't reliably use this same address to always pay the same person?21:45
nmz787as in, their client might forget about this address?21:45
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nmz787so now even if I sweep these coins, my anonymity is broken, because all further transactions will be linked, right?21:47
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