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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=4a8df211 Bryan Bishop: deloitte and gender wtf? >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/coindesk-consensus-2016/deloitte-gender/ | 05:43 |
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| QuadIgni | gnusha, kanzure thanks, I needed that clarification. | 05:49 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=d3044f83 Bryan Bishop: transcript: database technology >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/coindesk-consensus-2016/how-tech-companies-are-embracing-blockchain-database-technology/ | 06:13 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=35467f74 Bryan Bishop: more >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/coindesk-consensus-2016/how-tech-companies-are-embracing-blockchain-database-technology/ | 06:15 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=3228c35c Bryan Bishop: another one? >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/coindesk-consensus-2016/internal-approaches-blockchain-database-technology-strategies/ | 07:18 |
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| maaku | The far simpler explanation is that it was an outsider to begin with, not some multi year elaborate con | 08:10 |
| maaku | Note that no one in 2009 expected bitcoin to take off the way it did | 08:10 |
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| nmz787_i1 | xentrac_: yeah i am smoothing the input to the darlingtons, the output seems stable at least, as far as I can tell so far.... more of a problem is that the laser brightness changes with heat... (needs more current for same brightness when cold) but I have another laser head with an integrated photodiode that will solve that... I'll design a better power controller when I swap to that | 09:16 |
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| nmz787_i1 | is there a PDF chat room? | 10:50 |
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| kanzure | nmz787_i1: that sounds like a super boring chat :) | 13:07 |
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| nmz787_i1 | kanzure: hehe, I thought maybe those librarians you knew | 13:17 |
| nmz787_i1 | trying to figure out how to determine the size of some text on a PDF page, when I know the string, font, and fontsize | 13:18 |
| kanzure | maybe #code4lib | 13:18 |
| kanzure | possibly #swhack but i can never understand what they are saying | 13:18 |
| nmz787_i1 | (I know this is possible using GUI libraries, but also that it is system dependent... so seems PDF might have their own standard) | 13:18 |
| nmz787_i1 | k | 13:18 |
| nmz787_i1 | thx | 13:18 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=dfe1fe78 Bryan Bishop: transcript: global whats? >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/coindesk-consensus-2016/blockchain-database-technology-in-a-global-context/ | 14:05 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=21b8bcc2 Bryan Bishop: transcript: giancarlo vs. bitcoin >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/coindesk-consensus-2016/visa-chain/ | 14:37 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=c7cf86a7 Bryan Bishop: transcript: 21e6 inc. >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/coindesk-consensus-2016/how-to-get-bitcoin/ | 14:50 |
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| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=d7145681 Bryan Bishop: transcript: balaji vs. r3 >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/coindesk-consensus-2016/future-of-blockchains/ | 15:16 |
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| xentrac_ | nmz787_i: you can probably get better results (more precise brightness control, lower power dissipation) by not filtering the input to the darlingtons and just pulsing the laser ruthlessly | 17:33 |
| xentrac_ | if you want to not pulse the laser ruthlessly, maybe put an LC filter on the output side | 17:34 |
| nmz787_i | hmm, I hadn't thought of pulsing the darlington and filtering the output, | 17:34 |
| nmz787_i | that does sound a bit nicer | 17:35 |
| nmz787_i | but no more linear | 17:35 |
| xentrac_ | oh, it's much, much more linear | 17:36 |
| xentrac_ | I mean you can get the THD arbitrarily small, but -20dB should be easy | 17:37 |
| xentrac_ | the darlington is only nonlinear, from a certain point of view, when it's partway on. (and in that region it's mostly double-exponential if we're talking about voltages rather than currents.) | 17:38 |
| xentrac_ | conveniently, that's also the region where it's dissipative. when you run it with a pure PWM waveform it's 100% efficient and perfectly linear until you get close to frequencies where the junction capacitance or the pins of the package or whatever start to resonate. microwave land. | 17:40 |
| xentrac_ | that is, if the input is on 37.2% of the time, the output will also be on 37.2% of the time, and off the rest of the time. when it's on there's no voltage, and when it's off there's no current, so in neither state does it dissipate energy | 17:41 |
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| xentrac_ | a pure LC filter is also, in theory, 100% efficient, although of course in practice you are going to have several ohms or more of parasitic resistance in the inductor | 17:42 |
| xentrac_ | this may not actually be a desirable thing to do though | 17:42 |
| xentrac_ | with a diode laser, you also have wildly nonlinear (exponential) light output | 17:43 |
| xentrac_ | (with voltage. if you can control the current rather than the voltage you get quite good linearity because that very same exponential I-R characteristic gives you very nearly constant voltage over a wide range of currents.) | 17:43 |
| nmz787_i | I don't want the laser to actually pulse though | 17:44 |
| nmz787_i | hmm | 17:44 |
| xentrac_ | whereas if you just pulse the fuck out of the laser, it will also be on 37.2% of the time and provide 37.2% of its maximum output | 17:44 |
| nmz787_i | yeah PWM controlled current was something I wanted originally, but wanted a good-enough workaround until I could implement something better | 17:44 |
| nmz787_i | why do you say LC instead of RC? | 17:45 |
| nmz787_i | just to reduce loss? | 17:45 |
| xentrac_ | right | 17:45 |
| nmz787_i | ah, screw that, I can live with some heat in this room | 17:45 |
| nmz787_i | and the laser seems plenty bright | 17:45 |
| xentrac_ | let's hope your resistor can live with the heat too; it's smaller than the room | 17:45 |
| nmz787_i | putting the filter after the darlington shouldn't be too hard a rework | 17:45 |
| nmz787_i | well on the microcontroller side that shouldn't have been a problem | 17:46 |
| nmz787_i | on the output side, maybe more so | 17:46 |
| xentrac_ | exactly | 17:46 |
| xentrac_ | presumably you have a current-limiting resistor on the laser diode already? | 17:47 |
| nmz787_i | nah, i took that off ;) | 17:48 |
| xentrac_ | haha | 17:48 |
| xentrac_ | careful | 17:48 |
| nmz787_i | actually I don't think it was there, the one I'm thinking was a pullup | 17:49 |
| xentrac_ | ah | 17:49 |
| nmz787_i | so the laser was dimly visible | 17:49 |
| nmz787_i | for alignment | 17:49 |
| xentrac_ | nice | 17:49 |
| nmz787_i | but that would screw with my photoresist | 17:49 |
| xentrac_ | the other thing is that it's common for LEDs, including laser diodes, to be able to handle more average power without damage when pulsed | 17:49 |
| xentrac_ | I'm not sure why that happens but it's a significant effect | 17:49 |
| nmz787_i | i think its hea | 17:49 |
| nmz787_i | heat | 17:49 |
| xentrac_ | well of coures, sure, but why? | 17:50 |
| nmz787_i | this is just a cheap 405nm laser, probably similar to a pointer | 17:50 |
| nmz787_i | oh, something about its resistance coefficient or something | 17:50 |
| xentrac_ | I suspect it might have to do with the time required to go into localized thermal runaway, where the negative temperature coefficient of resistance of semiconductors concentrates the current at one spot | 17:50 |
| nmz787_i | yeah that coefficient | 17:51 |
| xentrac_ | which is usually the thing that limits the current of a semiconductor iode | 17:51 |
| xentrac_ | diode | 17:51 |
| xentrac_ | anyway so those are some reasons that people usually drive LEDs with PWM directly | 17:52 |
| xentrac_ | instead of using constant-voltage variable-current power-supply circuits, which are also a thing that exists | 17:52 |
| nmz787_i | yeah | 17:52 |
| nmz787_i | I was looking at the one Dave Jones was documenting designing | 17:53 |
| nmz787_i | but then got lazy, tried smooth-PWMing an LM317 adjust pin, but that wouldn't go below 1.25V (forgot that key point) and I guess the laser was still turning on at that point | 17:53 |
| xentrac_ | heh | 17:54 |
| xentrac_ | why are you averse to letting the laser pulse? | 17:54 |
| nmz787_i | i'm exposing photoresist | 17:54 |
| nmz787_i | assumption is i'd see dots | 17:54 |
| xentrac_ | oh, if the waveform is slow enough, sure | 17:54 |
| xentrac_ | but how many pixels per second are you doing? | 17:54 |
| nmz787_i | uh | 17:55 |
| nmz787_i | idk | 17:55 |
| xentrac_ | I mean presumably you can defocus the beam so that the spot is a little smaller than a pixel and then pulse the PWM an order of magnitude faster than the pixel rate | 17:55 |
| xentrac_ | and then you won't have that problem | 17:55 |
| nmz787_i | yeah, I figured I'd just elimate it altogether and not have to do that calculation | 17:55 |
| xentrac_ | or two orders of magnitude if you don't want to worry about the defocusing | 17:55 |
| xentrac_ | presumably you have some order of magnitude in mind though? I mean it's probably more than a pixel per day | 17:56 |
| xentrac_ | and probably less than a gigapixel per second | 17:56 |
| nmz787_i | well since this is targetted for microfluidics, I just really wanted to avoid any noise, since I presumed i'd have a lot of other sources of fabrication woes | 17:57 |
| xentrac_ | why do you want states in between "on" and "off"? | 17:57 |
| nmz787_i | there's this http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/laser_etcher/#index7h1 | 17:57 |
| nmz787_i | xentrac_: want to be able to control dosage of power | 17:57 |
| nmz787_i | watts/sqaure | 17:57 |
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| xentrac_ | you could probably do that by varying the pixel rate | 17:58 |
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| xentrac_ | 15 minutes for 31 megapixels? that would be about 35000 pixels per second | 17:59 |
| nmz787_i | if the only upside is less burst power, it's not as interesting as being sure pulsation at some level isn't the culprit of some nanoscale feature noise | 17:59 |
| xentrac_ | or almost 30 microseconds per pixel | 17:59 |
| nmz787_i | those calculations were desired I think | 18:00 |
| nmz787_i | i'm not sure what I'm actually using | 18:00 |
| xentrac_ | well, but maybe you could just like step the motor faster if you want less exposure, instead of trying to modulate the beam | 18:00 |
| nmz787_i | I think it's ~50 steps per mm, with x8 microstepping turned on | 18:00 |
| nmz787_i | and I last used a feedrate of 380 | 18:00 |
| xentrac_ | so it only spends 25 microseconds per pixel, say | 18:01 |
| xentrac_ | 380 steps per second? | 18:01 |
| nmz787_i | I am guessing it is mm/min | 18:01 |
| nmz787_i | checking | 18:01 |
| xentrac_ | ah, in the G-code | 18:01 |
| nmz787_i | yeah | 18:01 |
| xentrac_ | I forget | 18:01 |
| nmz787_i | yeah seems mm/min | 18:01 |
| xentrac_ | do you understand what I'm saying about just varying the feedrate instead of using PWM? Then you don't have to worry at all about PWM | 18:02 |
| nmz787_i | yeah | 18:02 |
| nmz787_i | but the motor is pulsed too | 18:02 |
| nmz787_i | so it could end up being an error source that needs eliminated | 18:02 |
| xentrac_ | yes, but that's true whether or not you use PWM on the beam | 18:02 |
| xentrac_ | that's about 6000 pixels per second | 18:02 |
| xentrac_ | if they're micron pixels | 18:02 |
| xentrac_ | (do you have the beam focused down to a micron? that's damned impressive) | 18:03 |
| nmz787_i | well if its 50 steps /mm then they're 20 micron steps | 18:03 |
| nmz787_i | or 20/8 if the microstepping counts | 18:03 |
| xentrac_ | oh, I guess so | 18:03 |
| nmz787_i | (not sure if its already factored into the 50) | 18:03 |
| xentrac_ | a 20-micron spot seems pretty plausible, 2.5 is going to be tough | 18:04 |
| xentrac_ | are you taking advantage of nonlinear photoresist response to sharpen the edges? | 18:04 |
| nmz787_i | it's from ebay, with chinese-english instructions in the ebay ad description. | 18:05 |
| nmz787_i | so who knows | 18:05 |
| xentrac_ | otherwise the blurriness of a 2.5-micron spot at 400nm wavelength is going to be really bad even in the best case | 18:05 |
| xentrac_ | I guess you'll find out! | 18:05 |
| nmz787_i | I have a bluray laser sled that I'll upgrade to soon enough | 18:05 |
| xentrac_ | okay, I have to head home | 18:05 |
| xentrac_ | good luck! | 18:05 |
| nmz787_i | it has a feedback diode in it for monitoring the brightness | 18:05 |
| nmz787_i | bye! | 18:05 |
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| nmz787_i | you guys are borin | 20:25 |
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| kanzure | true. i am 100% nyc now. have the look down, the meetings and the street grid figured out. | 21:03 |
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| nmz787_i | papa needs a new (to me) fume hood | 23:57 |
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| --- Log closed Wed May 04 00:00:05 2016 | ||
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