| --- Log opened Tue Jul 12 00:00:54 2016 | ||
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| ebowden_ | CaptHindsight, would you be interested in novel high strength resins, or are you primarily interested in selling the stuff you already make, rather than innovating? | 01:51 |
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| CaptHindsight | ebowden: just out of curiosity, autism, aspergers, somewhere else on the spectrum? | 02:25 |
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| fenn | "Self-driving cars are already being tested on the road, but tricky questions about their ethics remain. Should autonomous vehicles protect their passengers at all costs? Or should they be programmed to sacrifice their passengers, if it means protecting others?" | 03:53 |
| fenn | "Shouldn't the car have a fast enough processor to search each at risk person on social media/popular background check websites and weigh their value to society- both current and potential future value? Then make a more educated decision?" | 03:53 |
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| CaptHindsight | value based on what value system? | 03:54 |
| fenn | i guess it's not as funny out of context | 03:55 |
| CaptHindsight | in China it would aim for women | 03:55 |
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| maaku | CaptHindsight: in China it would "hit to kill" | 04:43 |
| maaku | fenn: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/self-driving-car-ethics | 04:45 |
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| mz_o_ | Hey anyone going to 2600 Hope Con? | 05:59 |
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| kanzure | CaptHindsight: re: known genetic disorder stuff, see snpwiki | 07:42 |
| kanzure | fenn: self-driving cars if they have any "kill which people?" algorithms will be hacked to hell and back by their own owners to kill everyone except their owners. | 07:43 |
| c0rw1n- | if they're not made fucktardedly they'll just organize to fucking stop before obstacles, how is that even hard fuxakes | 07:50 |
| maaku | kanzure: or cosmic ray hits utility function and it switches from 'minimize human deaths' to 'maximize human deaths' | 07:55 |
| TMA | the death minimization feature will be on only during standardized test conditions, otherwise it will be switched off | 07:57 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2016/07/11/caution-brain-hacking | 08:01 |
| yoleaux | Caution, May Backfire: Neuroscientists' Open Letter To DIY Brain Hackers | CommonHealth | 08:01 |
| kanzure | seems to be about tdcs | 08:02 |
| ebowden_ | lol | 08:02 |
| mz_o_ | let other people be your guinea pigs | 08:04 |
| mz_o_ | crazy that people administer sessions to their kids though | 08:05 |
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| kanzure | yeah the right thing to do would be to use *other* people's kids, not your own | 08:06 |
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| fenn | sarcasm detected | 08:09 |
| kanzure | no way, you want to test on something replaceable- there are way more kids that aren't your own. | 08:10 |
| ebowden_ | You see, when it's OTHER peoples' kids, it's totes legit. | 08:13 |
| fenn | .title http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ana.24689/full | 08:17 |
| yoleaux | An open letter concerning do-it-yourself users of transcranial direct current stimulation - Wurzman - 2016 - Annals of Neurology - Wiley Online Library | 08:17 |
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| maaku | The e MIT CSAIL building is weird for seemingly no purpose at all. | 09:42 |
| maaku | Whoever thought designing a building to match an Escher sketch is seriously confused | 09:43 |
| chris_99 | haha wow | 09:45 |
| chris_99 | i'd not seen that before | 09:45 |
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| nmz787_i | etch-a-sketch | 09:54 |
| nmz787_i | ? | 09:54 |
| kanzure | maaku: if you go to the media lab they have a giant picture of marvin minsky's house. for no reason. | 09:59 |
| CaptHindsight | kanzure: let me know if you find one with all the unknowns that doesn't require a time mashine :) | 10:16 |
| kanzure | that's unreasonable | 10:16 |
| kanzure | oops i meant snpedia not snpwiki | 10:17 |
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| maaku | It makes even less sense from the inside with spiral staircases at random places, mismatched floors, no line of sight, and variable height roofs... | 10:39 |
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| TMA | maaku: I have learned that the strong emotions caused by a piece of architecture are the hallmark of a great architectural achievement -- somehow confusion and hatred are the preferred emotions in the last decades | 11:14 |
| TMA | maaku: that's reportedly the belief of the architects | 11:16 |
| nmz787_i | grumble grumble... I hate the state of dentistry... why don't we have shark teeth where they just renew all the time | 11:17 |
| nmz787_i | or stem cell chewing gum | 11:18 |
| kanzure | .wik teixobactin | 11:19 |
| yoleaux | "Teixobactin /ˌteɪks.oʊ.ˈbæk.tɪn/ is a small molecule antibiotic that is active against gram-positive bacteria. It appears to belong to a new class of antibiotics, and harms bacteria by binding to lipid II and lipid III, important precursor molecules for forming the cell wall. Its discovery was announced in early 2015 in the journal Nature." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teixobactin | 11:19 |
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| maaku | TMA: meh. Buildings are suppose to serve a purpose. If I get lost twice and arrive at a workshop late because it is beyond confusing, somebody failed. | 11:23 |
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| nmz787_i | anyone know any unorthodox dentists? | 11:35 |
| nmz787_i | I want a CT scan of my teeth | 11:35 |
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| chris_99 | heh | 11:39 |
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| chris_99 | DIY your own CT scanner like Krasnow | 11:42 |
| nmz787_i | well I actually have a tooth issue | 11:42 |
| nmz787_i | but the dentists are all "this isn't indicated for your issue" | 11:42 |
| chris_99 | ah darn | 11:42 |
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| nmz787_i | and the visible-color camera they used inside my mouth... it sucks, it is obviously not a global shutter, and even looks like it is an interlaced image | 11:48 |
| nmz787_i | like wtf, this is 2016 | 11:48 |
| chris_99 | how does a global shutter actually work, is it a mechanical thing or..? | 11:49 |
| nmz787_i | nah | 11:49 |
| nmz787_i | I think it requires more electrical traces on the chip, to equalize phase delay or something | 11:49 |
| nmz787_i | of when to sample the pixels | 11:50 |
| nmz787_i | rolling shutter is more like a bucket-brigade, one pixel after another sampling and storing the reading | 11:50 |
| chris_99 | rolling shutter is line-by-line right from a CCD iirc? i'm not sure how CMOS differs | 11:50 |
| chris_99 | oh wait, maybe that is CMOS | 11:51 |
| chris_99 | apparently CCD can have a global shutter | 11:51 |
| nmz787_i | sure | 11:51 |
| nmz787_i | I think they both can | 11:52 |
| nmz787_i | CCD is easier simply because there is less stuff on the chip in general | 11:52 |
| nmz787_i | or at least historically | 11:52 |
| chris_99 | but i'm still confused how they actually make a global shutter, as how can read out everything at a single instance, is it just a case of reading all lines at the same time | 11:52 |
| nmz787_i | it isn't reading it OUT at the same time, it is sampling the pixels at the same time | 11:53 |
| nmz787_i | once you have the pixels stored, light isn't affecting them any longer | 11:53 |
| nmz787_i | and you can slowly read them OUT of the imager | 11:53 |
| nmz787_i | or pump them out, whatever | 11:53 |
| chris_99 | ok that makes sense, but how do you stop other light | 11:53 |
| chris_99 | entering in | 11:53 |
| nmz787_i | CMOS imagers generally have a digitizer for each pixel too | 11:54 |
| nmz787_i | in a CCD, the charge built-up in the pixel just gets shifted to the side, in a non-photosensitive charge-store | 11:54 |
| chris_99 | ahhh | 11:54 |
| chris_99 | cheers, that makes sense | 11:54 |
| chris_99 | why do we still have mechanical shutters then, out of interest | 11:55 |
| nmz787_i | probably some advantage I am not remembering... but they allow a rolling shutter to effectively have a global shutter | 11:56 |
| nmz787_i | so I guess sensor mfgs cheap-out, shutter mfgs get their cut of the camera product or whatever | 11:56 |
| chris_99 | heh yeah | 11:56 |
| nmz787_i | also most people are fine with rolling shutter | 11:56 |
| TMA | nmz787_i: I do not know the details of your insurance but based on the overall cost differential between the USA and eastern european countries you might be better of travelling and having the CT made overseas (maybe even the actual treatment) | 11:56 |
| nmz787_i | you mostly can't tell unless you have high-speed video | 11:57 |
| nmz787_i | TMA I saw a price on google that some local clinic was giving a free CT scan worth $700 | 11:57 |
| nmz787_i | idk the details of the 'free' scan... probably only if you get $20k of braces or something | 11:57 |
| nmz787_i | but $700 for tooth-related maintenance could be seen as like $2 a day for a year.... so if insurance wouldn't cover, I guess I could still pay for it myself... | 11:58 |
| nmz787_i | seems like $2/day is worth it | 11:58 |
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| TMA | nmz787_i: tooth filling is about $40, CBCT is $60 from what I have found | 12:10 |
| nmz787_i | TMA: what country? | 12:10 |
| TMA | nmz787_i: implants are more expensive (on the $1000 mark) | 12:10 |
| TMA | nmz787_i: Czechia (The Czech Republic) | 12:11 |
| nmz787_i | hrmm | 12:11 |
| maaku | heh, can't walk into a dentist office without spending >$60 in the USA | 12:11 |
| nmz787_i | what other reasons do I have to go over there? | 12:11 |
| maaku | nmz787_i: Prague is a beautiful city | 12:11 |
| nmz787_i | yeah I am pretty sure seeing the 'assistant' for ~20-25 mins total, and the doctor for maybe 15, 2 xrays... bill is probably $150 | 12:12 |
| TMA | my aunt that lives in switzerland has come to have the implants made here because it was cheaper even though it is not covered by her insurance | 12:12 |
| nmz787_i | TMA: hmm, I will have to do some research on medical standards, success rates, infection rates, etc around the world | 12:14 |
| TMA | nmz787_i: also, if you like beer, we have one of the best ones | 12:14 |
| maaku | budweiser is pretty good | 12:15 |
| nmz787_i | I am hesitant as it is here in the US, which is so expensive because they are so scared of something going wrong (presumably) | 12:15 |
| TMA | maaku: not the american one. in the USA it is available as Czechvar | 12:15 |
| maaku | i am aware :) | 12:15 |
| chris_99 | im pretty sure i had a black budweiser in Austria | 12:16 |
| chris_99 | that was nice | 12:16 |
| nmz787_i | maaku: reading a wiki on czech beers, mentions budweiser... confirmed you don't mean the american one | 12:16 |
| nmz787_i | (i was like, what???) | 12:16 |
| maaku | nmz787_i: that is not why things are expensive in the US | 12:16 |
| nmz787_i | I thought it was all liability | 12:16 |
| maaku | you will find better medical care at rediculously cheap prices outside of north america | 12:16 |
| maaku | nmz787_i: it's mostly your dentist's Porche and summar house | 12:17 |
| maaku | (or, he would argue, his student loans) | 12:17 |
| TMA | nmz787_i: Europe is arguably more civilized than North America (as mesured by the abundance of wildlife dangerous to humans) -- wolves and bears are mostly extinct, there are no more any lions roaming freely in Europe (they were still present ~2500 years ago) :) | 12:21 |
| maaku | TMA: as an environmentalist that's not a plus :P | 12:21 |
| maaku | "we're more civilized because we killed all our large animals" doesn't seem coherent in my ethical system | 12:22 |
| nmz787_i | maaku: is isn't really an ethical statement though | 12:22 |
| maaku | "civilized" is an ethical judement in this context | 12:23 |
| TMA | maaku: that's quite a recent view -- up to a hundred years ago a wilderness was thought of as an uncivilized territory | 12:23 |
| nmz787_i | civilization is just a human construct, more than animalistic constructs??? so it needn't be good or bad... just more complex? | 12:23 |
| nmz787_i | the definition for civil could have this conversation go either way | 12:24 |
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| nmz787_i | hmm, ticket to prague is >$1500 | 12:27 |
| nmz787_i | not sure I'd save on this trip... but I still don't have a CT scan plan here | 12:28 |
| TMA | nmz787_i: back to the medical standards: I think that they are prettyy good in most of EU. Poland, CZ, Slovakia, Hungary are probably on par with the standards available in the USA | 12:28 |
| TMA | nmz787_i: from where? | 12:28 |
| nmz787_i | PDX, USA | 12:28 |
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| TMA | nmz787_i: about $850 in november -- starting in prague -- there are probably better deals available from time to time | 12:44 |
| TMA | nmz787_i: also, new york is regulary available for third the price -- if yoy can get to NYC (and back) for less than $1000 you might be better off | 12:46 |
| abetusk | .title http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ana.24689/references | 12:47 |
| yoleaux | An open letter concerning do-it-yourself users of transcranial direct current stimulation - Wurzman - 2016 - Annals of Neurology - Wiley Online Library | 12:47 |
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| superkuh | Hah. An open letter behind a paywall. Nice. | 13:00 |
| superkuh | Oh, wait, nevermind. | 13:00 |
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| maaku | or alternatively fly into paris, or frankfurt or somewhere else that's cheap and get a bus to where you need to be in europe | 13:26 |
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| nmz787_i | TMA: I don't want to wait until November though... so I guess I will just use this as justification to complain to the next dentist I see | 13:57 |
| nmz787_i | hmm, I should look for a dentist who knows about Weston A. Price | 13:59 |
| nmz787_i | http://hackaday.com/2016/07/12/make-your-own-transparent-wood/ | 14:11 |
| nmz787_i | hmm, microchannels | 14:11 |
| nmz787_i | 'this is my naturally-grown-free-range-wood-based microfluidic' | 14:12 |
| TMA | oh, it seems that H2O2 (30%) is still legal somewhere | 14:18 |
| nmz787_i | yeah I think you can get it here at hardware stores | 14:20 |
| nmz787_i | I think my farmer friends used some of that in their stock tank they use for birthing their children | 14:20 |
| nmz787_i | (for sanitation) | 14:21 |
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| chris_99 | TMA, i think i've seen that on ebay | 14:22 |
| chris_99 | iirc | 14:22 |
| TMA | we used to have it available too. then some shitheads used it to make acetonperoxide explosives and now it's illegal without a permit | 14:22 |
| chris_99 | oh maybe i'm wrong, i think i'm seeing 12% at the mo | 14:23 |
| TMA | it was quite ordinary part of hair dyes (a small bottle of peroxide and the dye: mix, apply, wait, rinse) | 14:23 |
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| chris_99 | i've heard of people boiling the water out of it, but i guess that's not too safe heh | 14:25 |
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| TMA | if making explosives is illegal in itself, why there is any need to ban the precursors? after all if anyone intends to make illegal explosives, he will be breaking the law for which he can be punished anyway | 14:28 |
| chris_99 | exactly | 14:28 |
| TMA | that's probably a fine example of thoughtcrime -- "do not question the autority" being the violated '''law''' | 14:31 |
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| ybit_ | hmm | 15:17 |
| ybit_ | https://www.livecoding.tv/ | 15:17 |
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| maaku | Ther should be an open letter to neurologists explaining the proactionary principle | 16:35 |
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| nildicit | is proactionary still a thing, maaku | 16:46 |
| nildicit | I remember reading about quite a bit a couple years ago; not much now afaik | 16:46 |
| nildicit | *about it | 16:46 |
| kanzure | max more is still alive, if that's what you're asking | 16:47 |
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| nildicit | it seems like him and natasha have been so quiet these past two/three years | 16:47 |
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| kanzure | he's alcor ceo, busy with all the bodies and such | 16:48 |
| kanzure | she was doing some c elegans vitrification/memory things | 16:56 |
| maaku | nildicit: not sure what you're asking? | 17:00 |
| nildicit | I haven't seen the proactionary principle really being discussed in transhumanist circles as of late | 17:03 |
| nildicit | amon twyman has tried encompassing some extropian tenets in his notions of "social futurism" but I've yet to see much extrapolation on that | 17:03 |
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| kanzure | "“Unfocus” on foc.us: commercial tDCS headset impairs working memory" http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00221-015-4391-9 | 17:08 |
| nildicit | I dunno; I'm curious whether or not the current climate really necessitates an explanation | 17:09 |
| kanzure | "In this study, we tested whether the commercial transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) headset foc.us improves cognitive performance, as advertised in the media. A single-blind, sham-controlled, within-subject design was used to assess the effect of online and off-line foc.us tDCS—applied over the prefrontal cortex in healthy young volunteers (n = 24) on working memory (WM) updating and monitoring. WM updating and monitoring, ... | 17:09 |
| nildicit | feel like it'd amount to more confusion | 17:09 |
| kanzure | ... as assessed by means of the N-back task, is a cognitive-control process that has been shown to benefit from interventions with CE-certified tDCS devices. For both online and off-line stimulation protocols, results showed that active stimulation with foc.us, compared to sham stimulation, significantly decreased accuracy performance in a well-established task tapping WM updating and monitoring. These results provide evidence for the ... | 17:09 |
| kanzure | ... important role of the scientific community in validating and testing far-reaching claims made by the brain training industry." | 17:09 |
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| kanzure | yashgaroth: sup | 18:55 |
| yashgaroth | coordinating with jojack on setting up in the lab, might be able to get another tenant to order from thermo so I can avoid incorporating for now | 18:57 |
| yashgaroth | which'd be nice since an LLC takes a month and $500, plus $800 per year in CA | 18:58 |
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| kanzure | is he ever going to fix his brain cancer? | 18:59 |
| yashgaroth | which cancer are you referring to | 19:02 |
| kanzure | he has a brain tumor | 19:02 |
| yashgaroth | wait is this a metaphor or | 19:02 |
| kanzure | serious medical issue that he has been ignoring for a while | 19:02 |
| kanzure | thought you knew | 19:02 |
| yashgaroth | no, when we talk it's usually to bitch about other people | 19:03 |
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| yashgaroth | well fuck ok | 19:04 |
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| kanzure | yeah..... we should roofie him and put him in a scanner sometime. | 19:12 |
| kanzure | or uh, ask | 19:12 |
| yashgaroth | well if he knows he has it then I assume he's already had symptoms | 19:12 |
| yashgaroth | there's a new proton therapy center here that just opened, stick him in that after | 19:13 |
| kanzure | it must not be grwong fast, bcause i haven't heard aobut it in a long time | 19:13 |
| kanzure | or perhaps it's not growing at all | 19:13 |
| yashgaroth | if it's been a long time then I guess it's benign, not that that can be easily said for brain tumors | 19:13 |
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| nmz787 | ybit_: I just came across that livecoding.tv a day or two ago myself, via someone's stackoverflow profile | 21:24 |
| cynsia | cool | 21:24 |
| nmz787 | TMA: so the quote from the dentist is /just/ under my insurance limit... I almost feel like getting my girlfriend to do some work with a dremel or similar-dental-industry tool | 21:27 |
| nmz787 | TMA: something like $1800... for grinding my tooth into a post, then fitting a (supposedly) zirconia cap ' | 21:27 |
| nmz787 | 'crown' | 21:27 |
| nmz787 | which eliminates any potential for stem cell therapy on that tooth, I think | 21:28 |
| nmz787 | or at least I think the whole 'kill the root' root canal procedure (which they say after grinding a bit, could become necessary) seems like it would disallow stem cell treatments in the future | 21:29 |
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| fenn | don't worry we'll grow you a new 3d printed tooth from scratch | 21:40 |
| nmz787 | hrmm | 21:43 |
| nmz787 | well, yes | 21:43 |
| nmz787 | I guess I have considered that | 21:43 |
| nmz787 | I think I used the word conspiracy when I was talking to the dentist today, hehe | 21:43 |
| gourneau | There are sometimes some pretty good codecasts on Twitch too | 21:43 |
| kanzure | cynsia: hi welcome | 21:45 |
| kanzure | nmz787: talk with juri_ about tooth/jaw problems, she has put a lot of thought into those problems | 21:46 |
| nmz787 | yeah I thought of that | 21:49 |
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| kanzure | probably the "grow multiple sets of teeth" thing will be figured out at some point | 21:52 |
| kanzure | https://www.reddit.com/r/tdcs/wiki/devices | 21:59 |
| kanzure | http://tdcsplacements.com/ | 22:00 |
| kanzure | http://thebrainstimulator.net/shop/ | 22:00 |
| kanzure | https://speakwisdom.wordpress.com/ | 22:01 |
| kanzure | http://www.diytdcs.com/2013/10/summit-on-transcranial-direct-current-stimulation-uc-davis-sept-5-2013-videos/ | 22:02 |
| fenn | i wonder how they make a 5 mA fuse | 22:02 |
| superkuh | Current limiting diodes? | 22:08 |
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| superkuh | I use the e-202. | 22:09 |
| superkuh | http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Semitec/E-202/?qs=wgO0AD0o1vtsf3eUHD2UhA%3D%3D | 22:09 |
| superkuh | I mean, I don't do tdcs as tdcs, just vestibular stuff. Currently using the esp8266 as the microcontroller driving an L293 with an LM334 as the current source. | 22:10 |
| kanzure | .title http://jlb.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/10/12/jlb.lsv039.full | 22:10 |
| yoleaux | A pragmatic analysis of the regulation of consumer transcranial direct current stimulation (TDCS) devices in the United States | 22:10 |
| kanzure | "Evidence that transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) generates little-to-no reliable neurophysiologic effect beyond MEP amplitude modulation in healthy human subjects: A systematic review" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0028393214004394 | 22:11 |
| superkuh | I'd believe that. It's so grossly diffuse and non-specific. | 22:11 |
| kanzure | http://www.wired.com/2014/05/diy-brain-stimulation/ | 22:11 |
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| kanzure | i think they would get better results if they were trying to do lesions with tdcs or something | 22:11 |
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| kanzure | "Take the lobotomy for example, which won it's inventor (Dr. Egas Moniz) the Nobel Peace Prize" http://motherboard.vice.com/read/a-history-of-the-lobotomy | 22:31 |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jul 13 00:00:55 2016 | ||
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