| --- Log opened Tue Jul 26 00:00:07 2016 | ||
| -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@2602:306:cf0f:4c20:14f:b32d:cdbc:7ce1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 00:05 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-73-202-137-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:08 | |
| -!- nildicit [~nildicit@unaffiliated/nildicit] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 00:50 | |
| -!- esmerelda [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:54 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-73-202-137-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 00:56 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-73-202-137-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:56 | |
| -!- nildicit [~nildicit@unaffiliated/nildicit] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:20 | |
| -!- Aurelius_Home [~cpopell@c-73-200-185-48.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 01:36 | |
| -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:43 | |
| -!- Aurelius_Home [~cpopell@c-73-200-185-48.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:47 | |
| -!- zeroach [~CharlieNo@24-241-64-111.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 01:58 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:29 | |
| archels | "A Bayesian is one who, vaguely expecting a horse, and catching a glimpse of a donkey, strongly believes he has seen a mule." | 03:05 |
|---|---|---|
| ebowden_ | lol | 03:12 |
| -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 03:27 | |
| -!- SloanOnLinux [~sloan@162.72.132.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 03:30 | |
| -!- SloanOnLinux [~sloan@162.72.132.128] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:31 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-158-9-16.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 03:32 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-174-129-73-19.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:32 | |
| -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@213.200.193.129] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:43 | |
| -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@213.200.193.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 04:05 | |
| -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@213.200.193.129] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:07 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@c-73-202-137-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] | 04:13 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas_ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-005-223-183.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:26 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:48 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:51 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:53 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:53 | |
| -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:57 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas_ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-005-223-183.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 05:03 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 05:07 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:09 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 05:11 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:1cfd:f1aa:440c:383c] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:12 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@2001:8003:100e:c500:1cfd:f1aa:440c:383c] has quit [Changing host] | 05:12 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:12 | |
| -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 05:12 | |
| -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:12 | |
| -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Client Quit] | 05:13 | |
| -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:15 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 05:50 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:52 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-55-145-241.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:05 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas_ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-005-223-183.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:33 | |
| kanzure | nmz787: yes tdt has low efficiency, it falls off after adding one or two nucleotides, and only adds up to ~25 nt but i think this can be improved with selection experiments. | 06:37 |
| -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zhfofmegyzqleakl] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 06:42 | |
| -!- Jenda` [~bablbam@dekatron.hrach.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 06:44 | |
| -!- winsen [~winsen@unaffiliated/winsen] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:49 | |
| -!- winsen_ [~winsen@unaffiliated/winsen] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:10 | |
| -!- winsen [~winsen@unaffiliated/winsen] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] | 07:14 | |
| -!- winsen [~winsen@unaffiliated/winsen] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:15 | |
| -!- winsen_ [~winsen@unaffiliated/winsen] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 07:15 | |
| JayDugger | Good morning, everyone. | 07:26 |
| -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: hacked by feminists] | 07:27 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas_ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-005-223-183.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 08:01 | |
| kanzure | http://www.the-odin.com/diy-bacterial-crispr-kit/ | 08:09 |
| ebowden_ | Oh cool. | 08:12 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-55-145-241.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 08:18 | |
| -!- SloanOnLinux [~sloan@162.72.132.128] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.9.2 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] | 08:22 | |
| kanzure | .wik galantamine | 08:24 |
| yoleaux | "Galantamine (Nivalin, Razadyne, Razadyne ER, Reminyl, Lycoremine) is used for the treatment of mild to moderate Alzheimer's disease and various other memory impairments, in particular those of vascular origin." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galantamine | 08:24 |
| -!- SloanOnLinux [~sloan@162.72.132.128] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:25 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 08:50 | |
| kanzure | i wonder what ralph merkle thinks about the ethereum hard-fork. since he has switched to ethereum and "smart contracts". heh. | 08:53 |
| JayDugger | Umm...did he mention it in that LTB podcast? | 09:01 |
| JayDugger | Sorry, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvzpvXLbpv4, Epicenter Bitcoin. | 09:02 |
| kanzure | no, he pubished a paper | 09:25 |
| kanzure | instead of working on molecular nanotech :\ | 09:25 |
| -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-jnhbqqhvcnqqetpq] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:32 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas_ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-005-223-183.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:34 | |
| CaptHindsight | how many people would buy a $3k POSaM + PCR + CRISPR Kit? | 09:44 |
| kanzure | well, i don't really have a use for dna hybridization, so... not me. if it did conjugation and ligation, yeah sure. i'd buy a $15k version, a $20k version, etc. | 09:46 |
| CaptHindsight | that version will cost a bit more at first | 09:47 |
| CaptHindsight | probably add a zero | 09:47 |
| kanzure | why $200k? | 09:48 |
| CaptHindsight | someones gotta pay for our time | 09:48 |
| gnusha | https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=ca9cc72a Bryan Bishop: render petertodd things >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/mit-bitcoin-expo-2016/fraud-proofs-petertodd/ | 09:51 |
| maaku | Merkle had a looong oped in the latest issue of Cryonics about DAOs | 09:57 |
| CaptHindsight | in medicine when a gene is considered a defect, how many base pairs have to be different to be considered a defect? | 09:57 |
| kanzure | maaku: hopefully this ethereum blunder will convince him to work on other more interesting problems | 09:58 |
| kanzure | CaptHindsight: so far biologists have studied "single nucleotide polymorphisms" the most, but there are other kinds of changes of course. | 09:58 |
| kanzure | tweetosphere blowing up https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/757962716103311360 | 09:59 |
| CaptHindsight | referring only to single gene disorders | 10:00 |
| kanzure | synthetic viruses are a good delivery tool for crispr gene editing stuff | 10:01 |
| kanzure | eventually we will deploy an app store and such | 10:01 |
| CaptHindsight | synthetic gene store | 10:02 |
| CaptHindsight | order before 5 and click same day shipping | 10:02 |
| CaptHindsight | order 3 or more genes and get one free virus for delivery | 10:03 |
| CaptHindsight | for example with CF or sickle cell how much of the gene is actually wrong/defective? | 10:05 |
| CaptHindsight | they have IDed 1000 variations in the CF gene | 10:06 |
| CaptHindsight | The most common mutation (in 70% of cystic fibrosis patients) is a three-base deletion in the DNA sequence, causing an absence of a single amino acid in the protein product. | 10:06 |
| CaptHindsight | looks like an easy fix | 10:07 |
| CaptHindsight | so why no gene therapy yet for this? | 10:07 |
| CaptHindsight | oh it's in clinical trials | 10:08 |
| nmz787_i | CaptHindsight: CF has done gene therapy trials before... as I recall, first patient seemed to be succes, second's immune system reacted MUCH MUCH more than the first's and killed the person.... so dose-response varies MUCH more widely with that tech ( pretty sure that was viral packaging the fix ) | 10:19 |
| nmz787_i | that memory is from about 6 years ago | 10:19 |
| nmz787_i | CaptHindsight: that is precisely why CRISPR trials are getting so much attention | 10:20 |
| nmz787_i | because there is great precendent, but also great promise | 10:20 |
| nmz787_i | (greatly horrible precendent?) | 10:20 |
| -!- winsen [~winsen@unaffiliated/winsen] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 10:23 | |
| CaptHindsight | last year the Chinese did some tests on non-viable human embryos using CRISPR | 10:24 |
| CaptHindsight | wasn't it something like 4 out of the 30 that worked and the others had odd mutations | 10:25 |
| CaptHindsight | only four had the desired CCR5 mutation out of 45 | 10:26 |
| kanzure | better to stick with viral gene therapy | 10:26 |
| CaptHindsight | On the plus side, the team did not find any unintended mutations in the embryos, | 10:27 |
| CaptHindsight | I'd like to see the actual results | 10:27 |
| CaptHindsight | what are the reasons for immune system response in the gene therapy with viral delivery? | 10:28 |
| kanzure | immunological attack | 10:28 |
| CaptHindsight | poor choice of virus? virus not modified enough? | 10:28 |
| -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@195.114.248.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] | 10:29 | |
| CaptHindsight | what are the exact triggers? | 10:29 |
| CaptHindsight | from my outsiders perspective I'm surprised by how much info is still missing | 10:30 |
| CaptHindsight | looks like a wild west for research in all of this | 10:30 |
| CaptHindsight | and the ethical arguments are like listening to right wing radio | 10:31 |
| nmz787_i | CaptHindsight: definitely wild west | 10:33 |
| CaptHindsight | what was behind the lack of stem cell research during Dubya term? Drug co roadblock or fear of offending the invisible angry man that lives in the sky? | 10:33 |
| nmz787_i | Dubay...Dubai? THE CONNECTIONS!!!! | 10:34 |
| nmz787_i | CaptHindsight: I thought it was religion | 10:34 |
| CaptHindsight | Dubya/Dubya's | 10:35 |
| nmz787_i | www.www.www | 10:35 |
| CaptHindsight | In 2005, the State of California took out $3 billion in bond loans to fund embryonic stem cell research in that state. | 10:38 |
| CaptHindsight | Jesus, how do you blow 3B on this and have so little to show for it? | 10:39 |
| CaptHindsight | very carefully | 10:39 |
| CaptHindsight | and purchase everything through Sigma | 10:40 |
| nmz787_i | CaptHindsight: QC is a major issue with this kind of research | 10:42 |
| nmz787_i | and clinicial trials in general | 10:42 |
| -!- cynsia [~cyn@pool-71-125-214-39.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:43 | |
| kanzure | CaptHindsight: here are some things about gene therapy, | 10:43 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/gene-therapy/Engineering%20adeno-associated%20viruses%20for%20clinical%20gene%20therapy%20-%202015.pdf | 10:43 |
| nmz787_i | as far as we know, sigma's purity/quality certificates aren't fake | 10:43 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/gene-therapy/Genome-editing%20technologies%20for%20gene%20and%20cell%20therapy%20-%202016.pdf | 10:43 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/gene-therapy/Therapeutic%20genome%20editing:%20prospects%20and%20challenges%20-%202015.pdf | 10:43 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/gene-therapy/Non-viral%20vectors%20for%20gene-based%20therapy%20-%20review%20-%202014.pdf | 10:44 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/gene-therapy/Two%20decades%20of%20clinical%20gene%20therapy%20-%20success%20is%20finally%20mounting%20-%202010.pdf | 10:44 |
| nmz787_i | CaptHindsight: I wonder if any of that money went to lobbying | 10:44 |
| CaptHindsight | I want to read over that CF case that ended badly | 10:44 |
| CaptHindsight | you modify 3 base pairs in one gene, deliver by virus and the immune system went nuts | 10:45 |
| CaptHindsight | selling the tools for simple gene mods like this could fund all the crazy full genome synthesis | 10:48 |
| kanzure | autodesk has a synthetic virus production line that they have funded | 10:49 |
| nmz787_i | maybe this was the person, but I thought it was specifically about CF that I am remembering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Gelsinger | 10:49 |
| nmz787_i | CaptHindsight: looks like a CF trial had issues where virus genes turned up in the liver | 10:49 |
| nmz787_i | http://www.jyi.org/issue/evaluation-of-the-clinical-success-of-ex-vivo-and-in-vivo-gene-therapy/ | 10:49 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 10:49 | |
| nmz787_i | last interactive thing here is good, but no citations http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/genetherapy/casestudy/ | 10:50 |
| nmz787_i | maybe this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2570152/ | 10:50 |
| nmz787_i | .title | 10:50 |
| yoleaux | Gene Therapy Using Adeno-Associated Virus Vectors | 10:50 |
| kanzure | 2008? | 10:50 |
| CaptHindsight | those idiots should have known better | 10:50 |
| nmz787_i | kanzure: I'm sure there is a more recent version | 10:51 |
| superkuh | Appropriate username. | 10:51 |
| CaptHindsight | Inclusion of Gelsinger as a substitute for another volunteer who dropped out, despite Gelsinger's having high ammonia levels that should have led to his exclusion from the trial; | 10:52 |
| kanzure | "Photosensitivity of neurons enabled by cell-targeted gold nanoparticles" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4393361/ | 10:52 |
| CaptHindsight | bad choice of virus | 10:52 |
| nmz787_i | 'bad' == 'only' quite possibly back then | 10:53 |
| CaptHindsight | the cancer trials using the cold virus haven't ended in any deaths | 10:54 |
| CaptHindsight | I guess they were hoping things would go well and for the associated fame | 10:54 |
| nmz787_i | I am unfamiliar, but viruses can have specific entry-points, or organs they target | 10:54 |
| CaptHindsight | what makes them so great for delivery | 10:55 |
| CaptHindsight | how well is that understood? | 10:55 |
| CaptHindsight | the chemistry of their membranes | 10:56 |
| CaptHindsight | and target cells | 10:56 |
| CaptHindsight | seems once this gets fully mapped out you can deliver whatever fits into a given virus that matches the target cells | 10:57 |
| CaptHindsight | then it's on to synthesizing customized viruses vs modifying found | 10:58 |
| kanzure | autodesk's synthetic virus stuff is re: dog cancer, it's a personalized synthetic virus | 10:58 |
| kanzure | specifically targeting only that one dog patient's cancer | 10:58 |
| CaptHindsight | for cancer they have use Cold, Polio, Measles and HIV | 10:58 |
| CaptHindsight | autodesk also funded a SLA printer | 10:59 |
| CaptHindsight | >100m for a oxygen permeable membrane that you don't even need to print as fast or faster that it can | 11:00 |
| CaptHindsight | >$100m | 11:00 |
| CaptHindsight | http://carbon3d.com/ | 11:02 |
| -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-jnhbqqhvcnqqetpq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] | 11:02 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas_ [Gurkenglas@dslb-178-005-223-183.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 11:04 | |
| CaptHindsight | https://www.autodeskresearch.com/blog/hacking-viruses | 11:04 |
| CaptHindsight | http://bionano.autodesk.com/ | 11:04 |
| kanzure | yep that's them | 11:05 |
| kanzure | andrew is the one from the human genome project | 11:05 |
| CaptHindsight | Import Cadnano format design files oh god not here to | 11:05 |
| CaptHindsight | all we need are DNA files in proprietary autodesk format | 11:06 |
| kanzure | cadnano is open-source https://github.com/cadnano | 11:07 |
| CaptHindsight | for how long? | 11:07 |
| CaptHindsight | its Autodesk | 11:07 |
| kanzure | CaptHindsight: they asked me to quit my job and work for HGP instead, http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/The%20human%20genome%20project%20-%20write,%20hgp-write%20-%202016.pdf | 11:08 |
| CaptHindsight | and write software for them? | 11:08 |
| kanzure | run the project... organize teams, make up software roadmaps, etc. | 11:09 |
| kanzure | release synthetic viruses unto the ocean.... and such. | 11:09 |
| CaptHindsight | are they actually trying to make anything? | 11:09 |
| kanzure | human genome synthesis, synthetic viruses, dna synthesis tech | 11:09 |
| CaptHindsight | or is this just a big fund raiser? | 11:09 |
| kanzure | they are raising $100-250 million, yes | 11:10 |
| CaptHindsight | that's all I expected | 11:11 |
| kanzure | well they will need to actually do something. which is where i come in. if they don't know what to do then i have a long list of things they should be doing..... | 11:11 |
| CaptHindsight | would be nice if they build something that works | 11:11 |
| Aurelius_Work2 | kanzure : you accepted? | 11:11 |
| kanzure | yes building things should be highest priority | 11:11 |
| kanzure | Aurelius_Work2: sort of? it's still being defined. | 11:12 |
| CaptHindsight | if they want sub-contract out the "build something" part I know people that do that :) | 11:12 |
| kanzure | i want the mto be committed to this. i still need to bring them an actual proposal. this is partly the reason for the polymerase draft doc that we have been editing last few days.. | 11:13 |
| CaptHindsight | I'm really good at developing acronyms as well | 11:14 |
| kanzure | ah sounds like you'd fit in with the military | 11:15 |
| kanzure | for some reason they estimate it should take 10 years to synthesize only one human genome molecule. but i think we can do better than that. | 11:16 |
| CaptHindsight | like always, it depends on who is doing it | 11:16 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:16 | |
| kanzure | they are modeling this off of the synthetic yeast project and such (see the refs in their hgp-write paper) | 11:17 |
| CaptHindsight | number conveniently pulled from thin air | 11:17 |
| CaptHindsight | also safe, no rush | 11:17 |
| kanzure | well that's only $10M/year if it's 10 years and only raising $100M/year. $10M wont do much, unless you have the right team. | 11:18 |
| CaptHindsight | Brain Research through Advancing Innovative Neurotechnologies (BRAIN) initiative centers] | 11:18 |
| CaptHindsight | how many people do you need? | 11:19 |
| CaptHindsight | I'll be done way before then | 11:19 |
| CaptHindsight | kind of pointless since not all gets used anyway | 11:20 |
| CaptHindsight | the tools are easy, what they should focusing on is all the cross referencing, proteins, immune system chemistry etc | 11:28 |
| kanzure | tools are easy, but only when people are working on them | 11:36 |
| CaptHindsight | in 10 years you'll be able to order them on alibaba | 11:38 |
| -!- Burnin8 is now known as Burninate | 11:41 | |
| -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] | 12:16 | |
| -!- duper [~super@ca4.blackcatz.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:31 | |
| kanzure | CaptHindsight: i think it's clear that most of biologists are not tool builders. so we have to outline the plan for them. | 12:40 |
| -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.139.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:57 | |
| -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:58 | |
| -!- nmz787_i1 [~ntmccork@134.134.139.70] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:00 | |
| -!- nmz787_i [~ntmccork@134.134.139.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 13:00 | |
| -!- nmz787_i1 [~ntmccork@134.134.139.70] has left ##hplusroadmap [] | 13:00 | |
| -!- hazirafel [~hazirafel@bzq-79-180-185-151.red.bezeqint.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:12 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@2601:645:c100:63f1:c841:c5e7:97ac:44b3] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:20 | |
| kanzure | hazirafel: duper: hi. | 13:25 |
| duper | hi | 14:05 |
| CaptHindsight | kanzure: I'm not sure how much biology they do either since there is so much missing info | 14:14 |
| kanzure | they haven't started yet. afaik. | 14:15 |
| -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-ibsamndidaxtnigd] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:33 | |
| nmz787_i | kanzure: "falling off" explains nothing to me about 'efficiency' in terms of overall polymerization though, it can just hop back on in a moment... 25nt limit seems like it could be related to oligo interfering somehow, but a hard limit like that also seems to be unrelated to 'efficiency' | 14:35 |
| nmz787_i | I mean, in synChem efficiency is just statistical chance extension will happen each round, most things I've read have been a simple scalar, not an equation | 14:36 |
| kanzure | yes i think the mechanism limiting tdt to 25 to 50 bp is not known at the moment | 14:36 |
| nmz787_i | i.e. 98% | 14:36 |
| nmz787_i | nothing about 25nt the efficiency changes, etc | 14:36 |
| nmz787_i | (i mean, it seems we aren't comparing apples to apples even though we are using the same word 'efficiency') | 14:36 |
| kanzure | it's a little strange that the de novo dna synthesis capabilities of vent polymerase are not more seriously characterized | 14:36 |
| kanzure | i guess nobody has a strong use case for random dna | 14:36 |
| kanzure | or its friend, "deep vent polymerase" | 14:37 |
| kanzure | there was something in one of these papers that mentioned tdt purification was a really annoying procedure, or some other set of problems | 14:38 |
| pasky | We now have an MVP for our custom image classification tool - http://images.ailao.eu:7777/ - thoughts, ideas, usecase candidates, or pointers to potential customers welcome :) | 14:41 |
| kanzure | pasky: btw did you see this one? "Synthesizing the preferred inputs for neurons in neural networks via deep generator networks" http://arxiv.org/pdf/1605.09304v1.pdf | 14:44 |
| -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@213.200.193.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:48 | |
| kanzure | pasky: one of the projects that maaku wants to work on (and for me to fund) is live real-time audio transcription of the type that i do at events ( http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/ ). any chance that you could put some effort into that? | 14:48 |
| pasky | kanzure: oooh that's awesome! thanks | 14:49 |
| kanzure | and http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/Towards%20an%20integration%20of%20deep%20learning%20and%20neuroscience%20-%202016.pdf | 14:50 |
| pasky | kanzure: sorry that doesn't fit that well into what I'm doing now | 14:50 |
| -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@213.200.193.129] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:51 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@2601:645:c100:63f1:c841:c5e7:97ac:44b3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:55 | |
| kanzure | https://www.src.org/calendar/e006096/#tab-agenda | 14:59 |
| kanzure | "plant electronics" is interesting. i guess someone got tired of stringing up the lights on xmas trees. | 15:03 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-50-217-194.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:03 | |
| kanzure | "The Harvard Stem Cell Institute recently said they would start GDF11 human trials in 2026. 2026? Well some of us may not make it that long. At least now, the GDF11 door has been kicked wide open and my small, courageous GDF11 cohort has helped determine a safe and effective dose." | 15:05 |
| -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] | 15:17 | |
| maaku | pasky: yes I owe kanzure a project writeup with costs | 15:25 |
| maaku | I see it as more than just solving a specific near-term problem though, and would like this to be part of a larger NLP / semantic processing project | 15:26 |
| maaku | near term goal is definately just transcription related though | 15:26 |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@war2000509.lnk.telstra.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:33 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@war2000509.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Changing host] | 15:33 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:33 | |
| pasky | it's very interesting for me mid-term+long-term but not short-term | 15:34 |
| pasky | I'm looking at bootstraping a revenue-making business here so that these efforts can become self-funding and progress grows fast | 15:34 |
| ebowden_ | Oh, what's the revenue maker? | 15:35 |
| kanzure | pasky: i think transcripts are more likely to make money than image classification in the short-term :) | 15:35 |
| kanzure | even semantic markup of audio streams (if transcription is too difficult) | 15:36 |
| pasky | kanzure: who are the customers? | 15:38 |
| pasky | ebowden_: for me, people who want machine learning; the trouble is, people usually want solutions, not machine learning, and you get busy developing the end-to-end solution and never get around to plugging in substantial machine learning, which is annoying and we're still trying to figure out ways around that | 15:39 |
| pasky | so image classification is one of the best well-formed tasks that's actually possible to explain briefly, which is why we started with that | 15:40 |
| ebowden_ | Wanting solutions and not what you want? Those monsters! | 15:40 |
| pasky | even though I'm much more interested in NLP | 15:40 |
| pasky | ebowden_: yes, really! | 15:40 |
| kanzure | pasky: for transcription? any business that has a meeting, so essentially all of them. N employees sitting around a table * avg hourly salary per employee, with an 8 person meeting you're spending $800/hour so you might as well throw a few bucks towards having a log. | 15:40 |
| pasky | hmm, so why isn't anyone doing it yet? | 15:42 |
| pasky | it makes sense | 15:42 |
| kanzure | in the past, it was annoying to setup because nobody had microphones laying around, or you would have to dial in an extra service or something | 15:43 |
| kanzure | but now since most employee meetings involve many smartphones, the interface can be much easier to setup | 15:43 |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:43 | |
| pasky | I'll be thinking about that; you have a lot of transcripts, do you also have the audio recordings for some of these? | 15:45 |
| maaku | pasky: don't get trapped in the consulting rabbit hole. make products | 15:45 |
| pasky | for audio labelled training data is always big part of the pain | 15:45 |
| maaku | pasky: audiobooks | 15:45 |
| kanzure | there are dial-in services for delayed transcription i think, like some person on the other end of the line listening to the whole conversation, but i think people prefer near real-time output on a display or something. instead of just a black hole where you get a document back a few days later. | 15:45 |
| kanzure | i don't have audio for many of these. there are some youtube videos, sometimes... | 15:46 |
| maaku | kanzure: there are those two. we used one at the virtual institutes at NASA | 15:46 |
| pasky | audiobooks vs. smartphone input of room full of random people seated differently is huge difference | 15:46 |
| kanzure | audiobooks is a better idea. | 15:46 |
| maaku | they would do "real-time" transcriptions of scientific talks | 15:46 |
| pasky | and audiobooks are basically entirely unaligned | 15:46 |
| maaku | basically the same as closed captioning on 24/hr news (another target market) | 15:46 |
| kanzure | pasky: you could play the audio and then apply noise, make it play in a 3d environment and add noise, e.g. like all those stupid second life projects | 15:46 |
| maaku | pasky: walk before you run | 15:46 |
| kanzure | maaku: who does real-time transcriptions of scientific talks ? nasa itself? | 15:47 |
| pasky | i think the different speakers (plus different accents) are the most important missing ingredient | 15:47 |
| kanzure | or are they contracting that out to some company? | 15:47 |
| maaku | kanzure: some contractor in colorado, don't know details | 15:47 |
| maaku | was a federal contract | 15:47 |
| kanzure | weird. | 15:47 |
| pasky | one idea i seriously entertained was learning speech synthesis using different voices from audiobooks | 15:47 |
| kanzure | think of all the science they are losing by not recording everything :) | 15:47 |
| pasky | the advantage is that it's easier to align the data | 15:47 |
| pasky | but i suppose you could do it in reverse too | 15:48 |
| maaku | pasky: mid-term for this project I'd like to wear a pebble watch (or something) that does a nice weblog of my daily interactions | 15:48 |
| kanzure | also it's possible that voice recognition is a hard problem and maybe google/amazon is the only one with enough data to get audio recognition right | 15:48 |
| pasky | maaku: battery | 15:48 |
| kanzure | battery is not a concern for audio recording | 15:48 |
| pasky | i thought pebble has a small battery | 15:49 |
| pasky | maybe i'm wrong | 15:49 |
| maaku | it has a 7-day battery | 15:49 |
| pasky | audio recording is probably cheaper than transmitting the waveform somewhere else | 15:49 |
| pasky | maaku: 7-day for typical pebble power draw | 15:49 |
| kanzure | this is a dumb argument. we can trivially build long-life audio recording equipment. | 15:50 |
| maaku | recording is only going to reduce that by a small (<10x) factor | 15:50 |
| maaku | but yes what kanzure said | 15:50 |
| kanzure | if we can't build audio recording equipment then we might as well give up on life | 15:50 |
| pasky | yes, i didn't want to get into that argument, sorry | 15:50 |
| maaku | I have a cheap chinese made wristband recorder that lasts 20hrs on record | 15:50 |
| pasky | after all for the near-term usecases you don't need battery | 15:51 |
| pasky | (or it's a damn smartphone) | 15:51 |
| kanzure | "Phone recognition for mixed speech signals: Comparison of human auditory cortex and machine performance" https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Phone-Recognition-for-Mixed-Speech-Signals-Chang-Edwards/7d9881141b42da2e63d363732406647dd5df838d/pdf | 15:51 |
| maaku | pasky: there's obvious DARPA uses for this technology (or whatever your local european equivalent is) | 15:51 |
| pasky | that's what concerns me :) | 15:52 |
| maaku | yes well it's not the tool but who uses it... | 15:53 |
| kanzure | even without actual transcription, having topic highlights would still be useful | 15:53 |
| kanzure | such as for jumping around in audio streams | 15:53 |
| ebowden_ | Let's not make medicines either. Did you know that the military uses medicines!? | 15:53 |
| maaku | ebowden_: in all seriousness I think pasky is right to be concerned ;) | 15:54 |
| kanzure | you could have something that spits out the 3 locations where a certain word or cluster of words were said | 15:54 |
| -!- esmerelda [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 15:54 | |
| kanzure | and then use that instead of randomly hopping around a long video feed or whatever | 15:54 |
| ebowden_ | Because it could drastically facilitate mass surveillance? | 15:54 |
| maaku | I'm talking about technology that if subvertly installed on people's phones or baseband processors could record and process every conversation everywhere | 15:55 |
| pasky | i really think the main problem is data, i think audiobooks won't do much good - but what i'd be curious about is how well do the stock speech to text engines do on audiobooks | 15:55 |
| kanzure | if your concern is that audiobooks don't have enough noise, it is trivial to add noise to any audio stream | 15:56 |
| kanzure | you can even look at common types of noise in speech recognition tasks, and emulate those specific types of noise | 15:56 |
| pasky | 00:47 < pasky> i think the different speakers (plus different accents) are the most important missing ingredient | 15:56 |
| kanzure | audiobooks can give you accents actually | 15:57 |
| kanzure | but unfortunately i don't think we have a large freely available audiobook corpus anyway | 15:57 |
| pasky | you could stitch together different audiobooks | 15:57 |
| pasky | why does it have to be free? | 15:57 |
| kanzure | because who wants to spend $20,000 on books at amazon.com? | 15:58 |
| kanzure | have to get the data somehow | 15:58 |
| kanzure | maybe there's a giant torrent | 15:58 |
| pasky | i don't think you need that much data | 15:59 |
| ebowden_ | pasky, have you considered that intelligence bodies might already possess this capability? | 15:59 |
| kanzure | it's not like they will give you the tech if you ask them nicely, ebowden | 16:00 |
| pasky | you can easily get thousands of hours e.g. from song of ice and fire, harry potter, discworld audiobooks, and at some near point your available gpus become the limiting factor | 16:00 |
| kanzure | er how many hours do you need? i was expecting... a lot. | 16:01 |
| ebowden_ | kanzure, I know, but what it could mean is that developing such tech might not give such actors any new capabilities. | 16:01 |
| pasky | I'd expect you could train a decent domain-limited speech to text engine from a single harry potter audiobook, the much bigger problem is data | 16:01 |
| kanzure | ebowden_: imho i think deploying it as a service would be the place of concern. they will intercept all the audio and transcripts. | 16:01 |
| pasky | just having an audio stream and text stream is definitely not enough, you need alignment and the more alignment the better | 16:02 |
| pasky | but you could abuse an existing speech reco engine to get that | 16:02 |
| kanzure | pasky: oh that's a really small amount of audio. interesting. | 16:02 |
| pasky | so all in all, this sounds like a really fun experiment | 16:02 |
| kanzure | well, actually, alignment isn't too bad | 16:02 |
| pasky | i wish i had the time :( | 16:02 |
| -!- esmerelda [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:02 | |
| ebowden_ | pasky, you could make your own spy agency! :D | 16:03 |
| kanzure | you spit out some text, and then you run some text distance similarity between the generated text, and then similarity against all N word phrases from the book | 16:03 |
| kanzure | in fact, you might not want alignment | 16:03 |
| kanzure | for example: if the model *misses* an entire word, that's fine, in comparison to getting the rest of the sentence wrong. | 16:03 |
| kanzure | also i think a prank version of this could be made, where instead of acutal speech recognition, it just spits out anything that sounds vaguely similar to the words. | 16:04 |
| pasky | but in fact, this gets really complicated because the first question is, what's actually the task here, formally? on the input you have a time series of cepstral coefficients or something, on the output...? | 16:05 |
| kanzure | task is to replace my typing activities | 16:05 |
| pasky | that's not the formal version ;-) | 16:05 |
| pasky | there's all kinds of time warping you may want to do, and then decide to maybe label the time series with phonemes, or do something else | 16:06 |
| kanzure | speaker recognition would also be an interesting task to start with. | 16:06 |
| pasky | but for that you need some target variable value for each time step, i.e. phoneme-level alignment | 16:06 |
| ebowden_ | Sometimes I wonder if building little wetware brains and training them would be easier than this. | 16:07 |
| pasky | kanzure: if the company, for these 8 people, have hours of voice recordings where only they are speaking, that's totally doable! | 16:07 |
| pasky | *they = each one | 16:07 |
| kanzure | well, they probably have hours of them speaking, but it's probably a disjoint hour, heh | 16:07 |
| pasky | that's no problem, but it's unlikely it'll be *only* them speaking | 16:07 |
| -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:08 | |
| maaku | kanzure: I have the harry potter audiobooks | 16:08 |
| maaku | that's more than enough to get started.. that guy has incredible voice range too | 16:08 |
| pasky | maaku: i think running a stock speech to text engine (cmu sphinx, kaldi, ?julius?) on the audiobooks would be a great experiment and baseline | 16:09 |
| maaku | pasky: agreed. and thanks for the starting list of engines | 16:10 |
| kanzure | maybe the solution is to just donate my brain to science and then we can see what neural connectivity is appropriate for this problem | 16:11 |
| kanzure | there's a lot of real-time adjustment that i do when i'm typing like that | 16:11 |
| kanzure | based on the speaker | 16:11 |
| kanzure | ibm was using 2000 hours of audio for training http://arxiv.org/pdf/1505.05899.pdf | 16:13 |
| kanzure | "The most relevant data are the transcripts of the 1975 hour audio data used for training the acoustic model, consisting of about 24M words." | 16:13 |
| pasky | yep that's the ballpark i expected | 16:16 |
| pasky | maaku: there are two versions of the audiobooks btw - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbd2mzpYRrE | 16:16 |
| pasky | i listened to the UK one, so I prefer it ;) but voldemort is better by jim dale | 16:17 |
| kanzure | NIST speech data http://www.itl.nist.gov/iad/mig/tests/spk/ | 16:17 |
| kanzure | http://www.lscp.net/persons/dupoux/bootphon/zerospeech2014/website/ | 16:19 |
| kanzure | so.... | 16:27 |
| kanzure | why are all these speech recognition papers about words? when i'm typing, i am typing characters, not words. | 16:27 |
| pasky | how do you figure out what characters to type? | 16:29 |
| pasky | and how often are the characters not parts of words? | 16:29 |
| pasky | in, say, japanese, character-level transcription would be probably a lot more tractable | 16:29 |
| kanzure | i type what sounds right | 16:29 |
| pasky | what sounds right is determined by the words they form | 16:30 |
| pasky | furthermore, even the word context is important, i.e. the language model | 16:30 |
| maaku | pasky: in Japanese I would think you would need a semantic component to figure out what characters | 16:32 |
| maaku | actually maybe a markov model is sufficient | 16:32 |
| maaku | pasky: regarding your company have you done any work towards selling products directly? | 16:39 |
| nmz787_i | kanzure: can't you just abuse google translate (english audio in, english out)... or google voice (pass your recorded audio through google voicemail, which gets transcribed and emailed to you)? I mean, I get wanted 'your own' solution. | 16:40 |
| pasky | maaku: we have one paying customer for the vize.it product already (not the frontend, but using the backend) and getting in touch with a few others | 16:41 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-50-217-194.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 16:41 | |
| nmz787_i | i've used google translate in the opposite way, text in, MP3 out | 16:41 |
| nmz787_i | https://github.com/pndurette/gTTS | 16:43 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 16:43 | |
| kanzure | nmz787_i: google translate will block you after a certain number of queries | 16:47 |
| kanzure | maaku: there's also some interesting ways to "cheat" with speech recognition. you don't have to type what was said. all that matters is that you type something that is vaguely similar and holds most of the same semantic meaning. | 16:48 |
| streety | that seems more like a "cheat" for transcription, you still need speech recognition to be good enough to get the meaning | 16:53 |
| -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 16:55 | |
| -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hfntczzkxbsiewrt] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:56 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 16:57 | |
| -!- esmerelda [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 17:01 | |
| kanzure | well there other things you can cheat at; you don't need the exact words, you can often use other words. | 17:02 |
| kanzure | or different spellings | 17:02 |
| kanzure | "An example of such a system is the MIT Spoken Lecture Processing project [8], where the developers had collected ove 500 hours of recordings, of which more than 200 hours had been transcribed. Each lecturer had between 1–30 hours of speech .. language models were trained on more than 6 million English words. This system achieved a Word Error Rate (WER) of 17% [9]." | 17:05 |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@vps.jaboja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 17:05 | |
| kanzure | " Kemp et. al [11] found unsupervised training to decrease WERs from 32.1% to 20.6%, using as little as 30 minutes of transcribed and 50 hours of untranscribed data" | 17:06 |
| kanzure | from http://www.nwu.ac.za/sites/www.nwu.ac.za/files/files/v-must/Publications%202014/devilliers-2014-lecture-transcription.pdf | 17:06 |
| nmz787_i | well it is past EOD and no news on Lightning Terminators... | 17:15 |
| nmz787_i | maybe I'll have a friend with a business (and lab address with lease papers) email try | 17:16 |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@war2000509.lnk.telstra.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:16 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@war2000509.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Changing host] | 17:16 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:16 | |
| -!- esmerelda [~andares@172.58.47.9] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:17 | |
| -!- esmerelda [~andares@172.58.47.9] has quit [Changing host] | 17:17 | |
| -!- esmerelda [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:17 | |
| kanzure | hmm, the japanese parliament has been running speech recognition since 2010 https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Transcription-System-Using-Automatic-Speech-Kawahara/6e033da6944b39d50b5b785bd786250c502b01d4/pdf | 17:17 |
| nmz787_i | http://hackaday.com/2016/07/26/pressure-formed-parabolic-mirror-from-a-mylar-blanket/ | 17:17 |
| nmz787_i | .title http://www.techbriefs.com/Briefs/May98/GSC13783.html | 17:27 |
| yoleaux | NASA Tech Briefs Archive :: NASA Tech Briefs | 17:27 |
| nmz787_i | "Deflection of Circular Membrane Under Differential Pressure" | 17:27 |
| kanzure | maaku: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/speech-recognition/?C=M;O=A | 17:28 |
| -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:28 | |
| -!- nmz787_i1 [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-uvqcbzlhkvavpplq] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:29 | |
| -!- nmz787_i1 [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-uvqcbzlhkvavpplq] has quit [Client Quit] | 17:29 | |
| -!- nmz787_i [ntmccork@nat/intel/x-ibsamndidaxtnigd] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 17:31 | |
| -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 17:51 | |
| -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:54 | |
| -!- maaku [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] | 18:11 | |
| -!- maaku [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:12 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:41 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:45 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 18:52 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 19:00 | |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: hi | 19:00 |
| yashgaroth | yo | 19:00 |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:05 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 19:09 | |
| -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hfntczzkxbsiewrt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 19:12 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@war2000509.lnk.telstra.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:23 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@war2000509.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Changing host] | 19:23 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:23 | |
| -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 19:44 | |
| -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:45 | |
| -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 19:54 | |
| -!- ArturSha1 [~ArturShai@195.114.248.3] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:55 | |
| -!- strangewarp [~strangewa@c-76-25-206-3.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:55 | |
| kanzure | hm. | 20:00 |
| kanzure | "Successful serial recloning in the mouse over multiple generations" http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/fulltext/S1934-5909(13)00008-8 | 20:05 |
| kanzure | ".. Previously, we proposed that repeated rounds of genomic reprogramming via serial cloning might lead to an increase in efficiency over successive generations because of the selection of easily reprogrammable cells. Disappointingly, however, it has been found that the success rate in fact decreased with each iteration. In one study, only one cloned mouse was produced in the sixth generation from more than 1,000 nuclear transfer ... | 20:05 |
| kanzure | ... attempts—but it was cannibalized by its foster mother (Wakayama et al., 2000)." | 20:05 |
| yashgaroth | lotta problems with somatic cell cloning b/c of mutations that accumulate over time; methylated CpGs regulating genes for a different tissue type that'll get mutated | 20:10 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth, if i decided to reign viral chaos unto the lands would you join me in support | 20:11 |
| yashgaroth | ya ok | 20:11 |
| kanzure | kthx | 20:12 |
| yashgaroth | np | 20:12 |
| -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 20:23 | |
| -!- withanr [~notauser@185.65.134.75] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:34 | |
| -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 20:35 | |
| -!- HEx1 [~HEx@hexwab.plus.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:37 | |
| kanzure | maaku: okay another interesting cheat we should propose using is to simplify the target language and insist that everyone speaks the simplified sound system | 20:40 |
| kanzure | maaku: we could also do some other tricks like, having the speaker's smartphone relay data through ultrasound regarding their speech style and other gotchas | 20:41 |
| fenn | beep boop | 21:38 |
| -!- Burnin8 [~Burn@pool-108-31-204-167.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:46 | |
| -!- Orpheon [~Orpheon@213.200.193.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 21:47 | |
| -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-108-31-204-167.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 21:49 | |
| -!- withanr [~notauser@185.65.134.75] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 22:04 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:30 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@noisebridge130.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 22:50 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@2602:306:35fa:d500:f5e0:f867:a11d:8d52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 22:56 | |
| -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hbewnqxaxfwdleex] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:12 | |
| -!- Albatross [~Albatross@unaffiliated/albatross] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:13 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 23:24 | |
| -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hbewnqxaxfwdleex] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 23:50 | |
| -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dpmflowjlvrcrllq] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:51 | |
| -!- augur [~augur@2601:645:c100:63f1:8906:11fa:cb00:449a] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:51 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-101-180-249-107.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:53 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@CPE-101-180-249-107.lnse3.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Changing host] | 23:53 | |
| -!- ebowden_ [~ebowden@unaffiliated/ebowden] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:53 | |
| --- Log closed Wed Jul 27 00:00:08 2016 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!