| --- Log opened Sat Oct 29 00:00:35 2016 | ||
| Taek | kanzure: for me, evolutionary success has a pretty simple definition | 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
| Taek | and it's the ability to persist | 00:09 |
| Taek | so, the fact that you exist today is active demonstration of your evolutionary success, and of the evolutionary success of your predecessors. | 00:09 |
| Taek | In it's ultimate form it's a binary, either you exist today (success), or you don't (failures). And in less absolute terms it's a probability vector of you continuing to exist into the future | 00:10 |
| Taek | and, yeah I have a lot of thoughts on death and evolution, I think there's a lot more than what you can cover in some simple comment thread back and forths | 00:13 |
| Taek | Aging is what natural selection came up with, which suggests to me that it's got advantages. Perhaps the ability to recognize that your time is coming (older people tend to focus a lot more on boosting up the younger generation), or being able to recognize who is close to death | 00:14 |
| Taek | or perhaps some other mechanisms | 00:14 |
| Taek | We can probably do better, but I would be slow to say that it's easy to do so | 00:15 |
| Taek | I might even compare the complexity of death to the complexity of the human brain. Surely we can do better, but we've also got a ways to go | 00:17 |
| nmz787_ | juri_: I think it was like 5 microns | 00:21 |
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| fenn | epistemically unjustifiable statements abound | 02:46 |
| TMA | fenn: why refridgerators do not have their sides from evacuated bilayer metal sandwich (like in the stainless vacuum flask) to improve the insulation? probably the same reason why LN2 is used: cost | 02:54 |
| TMA | Taek: aging and death are method of maintenance -- it is "cheaper" to create new gene-carrying vehicles and let the old gene-carrying vehicle die | 03:01 |
| TMA | (for a given ecological niche) | 03:02 |
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| kanzure | Taek: aging has had advantages, but for who? society? certainly not the individual. | 06:06 |
| kanzure | specifically i mean advanced aging and death | 06:07 |
| kanzure | and regarding societal benefits - there are a bunch of arguments to consider re: extreme societal cost of advanced aging, healthcare, etc. | 06:19 |
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| kanzure | gmaxwell reply https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12822393 | 06:45 |
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| Taek | yeah saw the reply. Preparing my own reply, was too tired last night though and didn't want to post something low quality | 07:28 |
| Taek | I think a lot of those costs are costs we bought on ourselves. E.g. chemotherapy, a lot of oncologists say they would rather die naturally of cancer than undergo chemo (for the more difficult cancers, at least) | 07:29 |
| Taek | certainly there are times when it would be good for individuals to live longer | 07:30 |
| Taek | the world we live in today is very different than the world evolution optimized us for | 07:30 |
| Taek | resource constraints and opportunities are dramatically different | 07:30 |
| juri_ | nmz787_: so, you need this to render to 0.0001 mm. | 07:31 |
| juri_ | nmz787_: not a problem, nowadays. the version two months ago would not have handled it. | 07:32 |
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| kanzure | Pent: hi. | 08:37 |
| Pent | kanzure, hi | 08:39 |
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| fenn | it is cheaper to create new gene-carrying vehicles, and so the immortal soul lives on | 10:23 |
| fenn | surely all would accept formalin fixation and genome sequencing as an alternative to life | 10:24 |
| fenn | hey, it's cheaper than liquid nitrogen!!! | 10:25 |
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| kanzure | formalin fixation and a few other steps.. | 10:54 |
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| nmz787_ | juri_: I checked both github and gitorius... am I looking for something other than implicitcad? (sorry there are a lot of CAD programs I've tried in the past several years) | 11:50 |
| nmz787_ | juri_: meaning, none of the code repo's seem to have recent updates | 11:50 |
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| fenn | https://www.wired.com/2016/05/google-tpu-custom-chips/ neural net ASIC | 13:54 |
| fenn | you'd think nvidia would have done it first | 13:55 |
| fenn | i'm surprised nobody is using analog computers to run neural networks | 13:56 |
| chris_99 | it doesn't look like google is planning to sell their chip though right? | 13:56 |
| fenn | meh it's not like nobody saw this coming | 14:03 |
| fenn | i've been thinking about it for at least 5 years | 14:03 |
| fenn | you can do analog computing in FPGA too | 14:04 |
| chris_99 | FPAA? | 14:04 |
| fenn | "Currently there are very few manufactures of FPAAs with companies such as Anadigm and Okika Technologies Inc. serving as the primary producers. On-chip resources are still very limited when compared to that of an FPGA." | 14:06 |
| chris_99 | i didn't think fpgas where really for analog | 14:06 |
| fenn | they're not | 14:06 |
| chris_99 | i've got one of the anadigm chips | 14:06 |
| chris_99 | i keep meaning to play with | 14:06 |
| fenn | haven't you read about those evolutionary programming experiments where the algorithm evolved some wacky analog feedback loops that broke abstraction layers over the place | 14:07 |
| chris_99 | you mean where they used digital computation to create an analog component? | 14:07 |
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| fenn | no, i mean they programmed the fpga with a bitstream and the calculation was dependent on analog effects in the circuitry | 14:09 |
| chris_99 | oh you mean like PUFs? | 14:09 |
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| fenn | what is "PUF"? | 14:09 |
| fenn | "physically unclonable function" | 14:10 |
| fenn | no i don't care about that | 14:10 |
| chris_99 | physically unclonable function, there are fpga implementation, where they use race conditions which depend on the silicon fab | 14:10 |
| chris_99 | thus unique to each fpga | 14:10 |
| chris_99 | i've no idea what you mean then | 14:11 |
| fenn | the exact parameters for a given program may depend on each unique chip, yes | 14:11 |
| fenn | but that's more of a side detail than a desirable property | 14:11 |
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| fenn | adrian thompson https://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/ | 14:20 |
| chris_99 | oh neat | 14:21 |
| fenn | the actual paper http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.50.9691&rep=rep1&type=pdf | 14:26 |
| fenn | unfortunately reconfigurable FPGAs never made it out into the real world | 14:27 |
| chris_99 | cool, i've seen the antenna thing they talk about, but i don't think i've ever seen the fpga thing, very nifty! | 14:27 |
| fenn | because companies like xilinx and altera are clueless | 14:27 |
| fenn | (and own all the relevant patents) | 14:27 |
| chris_99 | that says it waas done on a xilinx fpga though? | 14:28 |
| fenn | the chip was made specifically for academic research into reconfigurable computing | 14:28 |
| chris_99 | ahh | 14:28 |
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| fenn | "more recently, [Carver] Mead's philosophy for analogue neural VLSI has been to exploit the behaviours that semiconductor structures naturally exhibit, rather than choosing a set of functions and then trying to implement them in hardware." (this was in 1996) | 14:42 |
| fenn | https://books.google.com/books/about/Analog_VLSI_and_Neural_Systems.html?id=-j8PAQAAMAAJ | 14:43 |
| fenn | oh it's not readable | 14:43 |
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| fenn | here's a related "book" more like a collection of articles inspired by the other book of similar name: http://fennetic.net/irc/Christopher%20R.%20Carroll%20Carver%20Mead%20Mohammed%20Ismail%20Analog%20VLSI%20Implementation%20of%20Neural%20Systems.pdf | 15:09 |
| fenn | i would eventually like to find a copy (preferably digital) of "Analog VLSI and Neural Systems" | 15:10 |
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| kanzure | hrm. | 16:35 |
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| juri_ | nmz787_: ImplicitCAD has halfway moved to my kallithea instance. | 18:30 |
| juri_ | you want that one. | 18:30 |
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| nmz787_ | juri_: link? maybe update the website to point to it too? | 20:25 |
| nmz787_ | oh, I guess I found it via something about an optical table robot: http://kalli1.faikvm.com/ImplicitCAD/Stable | 20:26 |
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| juri_ | yep. that's me. ;) | 20:33 |
| kanzure | eriq93201941 | 20:59 |
| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12826886 | 21:03 |
| yoleaux | Doubts About the Promised Bounty of Genetically Modified Crops | Hacker News | 21:03 |
| kanzure | "Targeted epigenetic remodeling of endogenous loci by crispr-cas9-based transcriptional activators directly converts fibroblasts to neuronal cells" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27524438 | 21:06 |
| kanzure | "Editing DNA methylation in the mammalian genome" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27662091 | 21:06 |
| kanzure | "High-resolution interrogation of functional elements in the noncoding genome" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27708104 | 21:06 |
| kanzure | ok that's just DNMT3A/TET1 for methylation in the crispr system | 21:07 |
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| fenn | this sounds pretty reasonable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurogrid | 23:49 |
| fenn | "The Neurogrid board contains sixteen Neurocores, each of which has 256 x 256 silicon neurons in an 11.9 mm x 13.9 mm chip. An off-chip RAM and an on-chip RAM (in each Neurocore) softwire horizontal and vertical cortical connections, respectively. With 61 graded and 18 binary programmable parameters, common to all of its silicon neurons, a Neurocore can model a variety of spiking and | 23:49 |
| fenn | interaction patterns. ... The entire board consumes less than two watts of electrical energy. | 23:49 |
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| fenn | It uses analog computation to emulate ion channel activity, and digital communication to softwire structured connectivity patterns. Neurogrid simulates one million neurons[1] and six billion synapses in real time." | 23:50 |
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