--- Log opened Mon Feb 19 00:00:07 2024
00:25 <@sipa> the first one is policy, the second one is miniscript
00:26 <@sipa> perhaps it was a mistake to make their syntax so similar
00:59 < jungly> It is a bit confusing alright, but people will learn. Also the nomenclature. I just learnt you can one policy, the other miniscript. 
01:00 < jungly> The one thing that is surprising as an end user of rust miniscript was that I expected the policy wrapped inside a descriptor to compile into Script. Seems something that can be done - am saying that without digging into the code too much.
01:01 <@sipa> well you need to compile the policy to miniscript; miniscript is a way to put complex scripts into descriptions
01:01 <@sipa> policy isn't because it's ambiguous
01:01 <@sipa> there are potentially many miniscripts that represent the same policy
01:07 < jungly> Interesting. Can a given policy compile into different miniscripts even if we specify all the priorities/probabilities?
01:08 <@sipa> yes
01:08 <@sipa> there are just many ways to accomplish the same thing in script
01:08 <@sipa> and miniscript is a 1-to-1 mapping with (a subset of) script
01:10 < jungly> True. I was incorrectly assuming that the compiler from policy to miniscript would be deterministic. But I guess, someone else can write a different compiler that makes different choices.  
01:10 <@sipa> yeah, or even better, someone could construct a better compiler
01:10 < jungly> :D True! :D 
01:10 <@sipa> that finds shorter/cheaper scripts that do the same thing
01:10 <@sipa> the c++ and rust policy compilers don't always find the same result, i believe
01:12 < jungly> I would like a compiler that churns out "easier to understand" Script, so that humans can toy with building contracts. Later they can turn on a flag to say "generate optimal" Script. Like the -O flags.
01:13 <@sipa> that doesn't sound too hard
01:13 <@sipa> just disable some of the more complex strategies in the compiler
01:14 < jungly> Ah, you already have simple strategies built into the compiler? Nice!
01:14 <@sipa> well there are more straightforward ones, and less straightforward ones
01:14 <@sipa> the current compiler just tries several, and picks the cheapest result
01:14 <@sipa> which sometimes is the simpler one
01:14 < jungly> You speak for the C++ compiler or both C++ and Rust one?
01:15 < jungly> Interesting. Didn't realise you were generating multiple Scripts and then choosing. 
01:15 <@sipa> the c++ one, but the rust one is based on a very similar design, i'm just not familiar with the code
01:15 <@sipa> it's a dynamic programming algorithm
01:15 < jungly> Gotcha
01:16 <@sipa> for every subexpression multiple compilations are constructed, and ones that are strictly worse than others are discarded, before continuing with building bigger subexpressions that contain them
01:17 < jungly> Got it. Since you are here. Is the BCNF grammar for Policy and/or Miniscript somewhere?
01:18 <@sipa> i don't think we ever wrote it out in BCNF
01:18 <@sipa> but the language is written down somewhere
01:19 <@sipa> the miniscript type system makes it hard to write a grammar for just *valid* miniscript though
01:20 <@sipa> the fuzz test in bitcoin core for miniscript arguably computes a grammar for miniscript, so it can construct just valid scripts
01:21 < jungly> Oh didn't know about miniscript in core's fuzz tests. Thanks for pointing that out. 
01:29 <@sipa> it's constructed on the fly at runtime using the miniscript type system information, so don't expect something readable inside the source code
01:29 <@sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/test/fuzz/miniscript.cpp, see SmartInfo
01:51 < jungly> Thanks, looks pretty involved. I'll try to grok it over time.
01:54 <@sipa> but if you want an informal grammar, both for policy and miniscript, it's all on https://bitcoin.sipa.be/miniscript/
04:13 < jungly> Thanks again for all the help
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--- Log closed Tue Feb 20 00:00:05 2024