From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org>
To: Dave Hudson <dave@hashingit•com>,
Dave Hudson via bitcoin-dev
<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>,
Peter R <peter_r@gmx•com>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] "A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit"--new research paper suggests
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 21:18:14 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <0FB0951B-FCBC-4F50-A10E-34451F6B5D02@petertodd.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3162BC78-EC0B-4DAA-A472-D143389DDD8A@hashingit.com>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
On 4 August 2015 14:41:53 GMT-04:00, Dave Hudson via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>The paper is nicely done, but I'm concerned that there's a real problem
>with equation 4. The orphan rate is not just a function of time; it's
>also a function of the block maker's proportion of the network hash
>rate. Fundamentally a block maker (pool or aggregation of pools) does
>not orphan its own blocks. In a degenerate case a 100% pool has no
>orphaned blocks. Consider that a 1% miner must assume a greater risk
>from orphaning than, say, a pool with 25%, or worse 40% of the hash
>rate.
>
>I suspect this may well change some of the conclusions as larger block
>makers will definitely be able to create larger blocks than their
>smaller counterparts.
Quite correct; this paper is fatally flawed and at best rehashes what we already know happens in the "spherical cow" case, without making it clear that it refers to a completely unrealistic setup. It'd be interested to know who actually wrote it - "Peter R" is obviously a pseudonym and the paper goes into sufficient detail that it makes you wonder why the author didn't see the flaws in it.
For those wishing to do actual research, esp. people such as profs mentoring students, keep in mind that in Bitcoin situations where large miners have an advantage over small miners are security exploits, with severity proportional to the difference in profitability. A good example of the type of analysis required is the well known selfish mining paper, which shows how a miner adopting a "selfish" strategy has an advantage - more profit per unit hashing power - than miners who do not adopt that strategy, and additionally, that excess profits scales with increasing hashing power.
As for the OP, if this wasn't an attempt at misinformation, my apologies. But keep in mind that you're wading into a highly politically charged research field with billions hanging on the blocksize limit; understand that people aren't happy when flawed papers end up on reddit being used to promote bad ideas. You'd be wise to run future work past experts in the field prior to publishing widely if you dislike heated controversy.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iQE9BAEBCAAnIBxQZXRlciBUb2RkIDxwZXRlQHBldGVydG9kZC5vcmc+BQJVwSwJ
AAoJEMCF8hzn9Lnc47AH/RknSZpnZ8r4WA4r+S0yJmlo0hKm8gsjUGhaqX7cnuSR
dB1ewrsjC4uPtSc8Ej1hzf37E67DTxiz6STq9XdtFSij+ww7SPx+z8yjEpQ0Ld0K
OIidQ80WRGJ1UPMUt7pFDU3pxNZI/A46Lg3EmqjY+xAe6+wDlOHjT/miO3tv0uws
nNYwrelA4f/KQXkUggGUOW62Sc3fJpUxLurq4eQHflIxtk3KM1reSxwG28KG02j6
lTUEHmMsmE7qoQAl60vwfvVKvvy/RwxpildwNey6IgtCQqWqqEy+WoTsgyVAGIbn
+8gR//W2hEIp+W5OSsiVNZ5S/KpcwaIBqZFcoca8838=
=HJiv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-08-04 21:18 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 29+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-08-03 15:22 [bitcoin-dev] Eli Dourado on "governance" Gavin Andresen
[not found] ` <1438640036.2828.0.camel@auspira.com>
2015-08-03 22:21 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-08-04 6:40 ` [bitcoin-dev] "A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit"--new research paper suggests Peter R
2015-08-04 18:41 ` Dave Hudson
2015-08-04 21:18 ` Peter Todd [this message]
2015-08-04 21:30 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-08-04 21:46 ` Peter Todd
2015-08-05 0:26 ` Milly Bitcoin
2015-08-05 0:40 ` Neil Fincham
2015-08-04 23:37 ` Dave Hudson
2015-08-05 22:15 ` Peter R
2015-08-05 22:44 ` Dave Hudson
2015-08-05 23:45 ` Tom Harding
2015-08-05 8:33 ` Benjamin
2015-08-05 9:18 ` Hector Chu
2015-08-05 9:57 ` Adam Back
2015-08-05 10:51 ` Hector Chu
2015-08-05 11:07 ` Adam Back
2015-08-05 11:35 ` Hector Chu
2015-08-05 19:04 ` Hector Chu
2015-08-05 10:26 ` Peter R
[not found] ` <CAAS2fgTzeFnmnr2ScZvf1pDUtF+M3HhF9xo0yhjVPObpqhgz0A@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <6ED57388-6EC3-4515-BF3F-E753301537AB@gmx.com>
[not found] ` <CAAS2fgRoFna4i-d=hpmz-CpV35VQ=J1aEoTTT6B1oD4f15C1KA@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <C8B38FEC-0EF2-483F-9E53-43AB937455A0@gmx.com>
[not found] ` <CAAS2fgQjXNTi9Y_YwLg2dR8baYZhvmEjw43ictt749zR2AOEWw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <6FED5604-4A6F-4CE1-B42E-36626375D557@gmx.com>
[not found] ` <CAAS2fgQ7hRRvRtD8igcZ2aWBmnqre6iM27peCFGxgC8ODb9jgw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <6BA86443-7534-4AAA-92BC-EC9B1603DE5F@gmx.com>
[not found] ` <CAAS2fgTTZKD9LQHpMmEH0OU=T8Ta7cCaavWzhM1yQ68-MAT8UQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <27B16AB4-0DAD-4665-BF08-7A0C0A70D8D8@gmx.com>
[not found] ` <CAAS2fgRm_CSmWgr7CGmBUD0nX+V0fJ8N4TQN01Vchgip9-s6uQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <CAAS2fgT+DP+DaoCMG276uF4=Yoi-w40YyNP-RDRG7NQgOmtpGw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <CAEgR2PGn_SER18sMuKPJJz5RT=1K=346eCm ph5FJQhhoLcV1zw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <CAEgR2PGn_SER18sMuKPJJz5RT=1K=346eCmph5FJQhhoLcV1zw@mail.gmail.com>
2015-08-30 20:08 ` Peter R
2015-08-30 21:02 ` Daniele Pinna
2015-08-04 14:22 ` [bitcoin-dev] Eli Dourado on "governance" Anthony Towns
2015-08-04 18:28 ` Owen
2015-08-05 3:07 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-08-05 6:32 ` Mashuri Clark
2015-08-05 13:28 ` Mashuri Clark
2015-08-07 16:26 ` Thomas Zander
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=0FB0951B-FCBC-4F50-A10E-34451F6B5D02@petertodd.org \
--to=pete@petertodd$(echo .)org \
--cc=bitcoin-dev@lists$(echo .)linuxfoundation.org \
--cc=dave@hashingit$(echo .)com \
--cc=peter_r@gmx$(echo .)com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox