From: Thy Shizzle <thashiznets@yahoo•com.au>
To: "voisine@gmail•com" <voisine@gmail•com>
Cc: "bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net"
<bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Electrum 2.0 has been tagged
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 05:58:12 +0000 (UTC) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <1511245342.4538047.1426139892373.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> (raw)
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1573 bytes --]
Why on earth would you want to derive the mnemonic from the wallet seed? Ever?
Remembering that as an attacker doesn't actually have to do any key stretching, they can just keep trying (what is it 64 bytes from memory?) at a time without any PBKDF2 to attack a seed, it seems that the PBKDF2 is just to slow down anyone attempting to attack through an interface such as a web service or to a TREZOR or whatever, in a real world attack you would not even be performing PBKDF2 you would just brute force the raw bytes and force them into the BIP32 wallet as there is no Authentication scheme that hashes and compares against the result. It purely limits abuse through an online wallet provider or something like that by slowing down seed generation attempts THROUGH that API, it doesn't really add any security to the seed in a real world brute force attack! So yea I think the 2048 iteration count is sufficient for it's purpose because even if it only forces an extra 1ms per seed generation through the API, it is still slower than just brute forcing the 64 bytes straight up, and so they would have no reason to abuse your API that is all :)
"meh... the fact that you can't derive the seed phrase from the wallet seed, and that the password key stretching is so weak as to be ineffectual security theater bugs me. Feels like a pretty big compromise to work on current generation low power embedded devices when the next generation will be more than capable. But I understand the motivation for the compromise.
Aaron Voisine
co-founder and CEO
breadwallet.com"
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2855 bytes --]
next reply other threads:[~2015-03-12 5:58 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 42+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-03-12 5:58 Thy Shizzle [this message]
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-03-12 5:12 Thy Shizzle
2015-03-12 5:25 ` Aaron Voisine
2015-03-12 4:21 Thy Shizzle
2015-03-12 11:51 ` Neill Miller
2015-03-12 12:59 ` Thy Shizzle
2015-03-12 16:39 ` devrandom
2015-03-12 2:38 Thy Shizzle
2015-03-12 10:43 ` Andreas Schildbach
[not found] <372541993.4372759.1426123313134.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
2015-03-12 2:26 ` devrandom
[not found] <1353069350.4360497.1426126034565.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
2015-03-12 2:16 ` Thy Shizzle
2015-03-12 3:59 ` Neill Miller
2015-03-01 15:23 Thomas Voegtlin
2015-03-02 7:09 ` Andreas Schildbach
2015-03-02 15:37 ` Mike Hearn
2015-03-02 17:11 ` Jim
2015-03-11 14:58 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2015-03-11 15:31 ` Andreas Schildbach
2015-03-12 8:56 ` Thomas Voegtlin
2015-03-11 17:14 ` Mike Hearn
2015-03-11 19:04 ` Jim
2015-03-11 19:24 ` Ricardo Filipe
2015-03-11 19:46 ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-03-11 22:57 ` Aaron Voisine
2015-03-11 23:22 ` Mike Hearn
2015-03-11 23:50 ` devrandom
2015-03-11 23:54 ` Mike Hearn
2015-03-12 0:11 ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-03-12 2:41 ` devrandom
2015-03-12 4:09 ` Gregory Maxwell
2015-03-12 19:08 ` Bryan Bishop
2015-03-12 10:30 ` Andreas Schildbach
2015-03-12 10:28 ` Andreas Schildbach
2015-03-18 2:06 ` devrandom
2015-03-12 10:41 ` Andreas Schildbach
2015-03-12 3:43 ` slush
2015-03-12 16:47 ` Mike Hearn
2015-03-12 17:20 ` Gary Rowe
2015-03-12 17:42 ` Gary Rowe
2015-03-12 18:27 ` Natanael
2015-03-12 18:51 ` Andreas Schildbach
2015-03-12 19:14 ` Natanael
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=1511245342.4538047.1426139892373.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com \
--to=thashiznets@yahoo$(echo .)com.au \
--cc=bitcoin-development@lists$(echo .)sourceforge.net \
--cc=voisine@gmail$(echo .)com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox