* [Bitcoin-development] Sending Bitcoins using RSA keys
@ 2013-04-24 14:18 Melvin Carvalho
2013-04-24 14:46 ` Craig B Agricola
0 siblings, 1 reply; 3+ messages in thread
From: Melvin Carvalho @ 2013-04-24 14:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: public-rww, Web Payments, Bitcoin Dev
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So there's a slight world divide in digital payments with bitcoin using
ECDSA and GPG, payswarm / webid etc using largely RSA
Here's how to bring the two worlds together and enable bitcoins be sent
over webid or payswarm
Problem: Alice and Bob have RSA key pairs, but no public bitcoin
addresses. Alice wants to send 1 BTC to Bob.
1. Alice takes Bob's WebID and encrpyts it with her private key (to create
entropy) ...
2. Alice uses that message as the seed to produce btc address (as per
http://brainwallet.org ) with ECDSA key pair
3. Alice sends coins to this address
4. Alice and then encrypts the seed again with Bob's public key
5. Bob decrypts the seed using his private key
6. Bob can now use the seed to recreate the wallet and spend the coins
Unless I've made an error, I believe this unites the web paradigm and
crypto currency paradigm into one potentially giant eco system ...
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bitcoin-development] Sending Bitcoins using RSA keys
2013-04-24 14:18 [Bitcoin-development] Sending Bitcoins using RSA keys Melvin Carvalho
@ 2013-04-24 14:46 ` Craig B Agricola
2013-04-27 14:14 ` Melvin Carvalho
0 siblings, 1 reply; 3+ messages in thread
From: Craig B Agricola @ 2013-04-24 14:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Melvin Carvalho; +Cc: Bitcoin Dev, Web Payments, public-rww
Maybe I'm missing something crucial, but what benefit does this dance give over
the slightly more obvious mechanism of simply:
1) Alice generates a new address with her bitcoin client and sends the BTC to
this new address
2) Alice exports the private key for that address (there is a well supported
format for that)
3) Alice writes a nice email to Bob, including that exported private key
4) Alice encrypts the email with Bob's public key using GPG and sends it to him
by email
5) Bob decrypts the email
6) Bob imports the private key into his wallet
There's no need for sending a whole wallet; just the one key is needed. Every
bit of infrastructure needed above already exists. And of course, the above
has the same issue as your proposal; this is a way for two trusting parties to
send BTC without using the Bitcoin network, but it's not a payment mechanism.
They now share control of an address; whoever spends that BTC first wins, so
until Bob uses the Bitcoin network to spend that BTC to another address that
only he controls, it's still in joint custody. And if ensuring that he has
control of the BTC is the last (implicit) step in the procedure above, as well
as yours, then they might as well have simply used the Bitcoin network to do
the transfer in the first place.
Did I miss the point entirely?
-Craig
PS. Re-reading, I realize that the above might come off sounding snarky or
dismissive; it's not intended that way. I'm wondering if I'm missing the
big picture.
On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 04:18:38PM +0200, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
> So there's a slight world divide in digital payments with bitcoin using
> ECDSA and GPG, payswarm / webid etc using largely RSA
>
> Here's how to bring the two worlds together and enable bitcoins be sent
> over webid or payswarm
>
>
> Problem: Alice and Bob have RSA key pairs, but no public bitcoin
> addresses. Alice wants to send 1 BTC to Bob.
>
> 1. Alice takes Bob's WebID and encrpyts it with her private key (to create
> entropy) ...
>
> 2. Alice uses that message as the seed to produce btc address (as per
> http://brainwallet.org ) with ECDSA key pair
>
> 3. Alice sends coins to this address
>
> 4. Alice and then encrypts the seed again with Bob's public key
>
> 5. Bob decrypts the seed using his private key
>
> 6. Bob can now use the seed to recreate the wallet and spend the coins
>
> Unless I've made an error, I believe this unites the web paradigm and
> crypto currency paradigm into one potentially giant eco system ...
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
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> and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bitcoin-development] Sending Bitcoins using RSA keys
2013-04-24 14:46 ` Craig B Agricola
@ 2013-04-27 14:14 ` Melvin Carvalho
0 siblings, 0 replies; 3+ messages in thread
From: Melvin Carvalho @ 2013-04-27 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Craig B Agricola; +Cc: Bitcoin Dev, Web Payments, public-rww
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On 24 April 2013 16:46, Craig B Agricola <craig@theagricolas•org> wrote:
> Maybe I'm missing something crucial, but what benefit does this dance give
> over
> the slightly more obvious mechanism of simply:
> 1) Alice generates a new address with her bitcoin client and sends the BTC
> to
> this new address
> 2) Alice exports the private key for that address (there is a well
> supported
> format for that)
> 3) Alice writes a nice email to Bob, including that exported private key
> 4) Alice encrypts the email with Bob's public key using GPG and sends it
> to him
> by email
> 5) Bob decrypts the email
> 6) Bob imports the private key into his wallet
>
Yes this works too.
However is it dependent on the bitcoin client address generation algorithm?
I think what I'm trying to describe is something more akin to the way a
shared secret is generated by TLS.
Agree, that the wallet is also shared, ive not yet worked out a way to
'blind' one side of the wallet, but nor have a proved it's impossible, so
still working onthat :)
>
> There's no need for sending a whole wallet; just the one key is needed.
> Every
> bit of infrastructure needed above already exists. And of course, the
> above
> has the same issue as your proposal; this is a way for two trusting
> parties to
> send BTC without using the Bitcoin network, but it's not a payment
> mechanism.
> They now share control of an address; whoever spends that BTC first wins,
> so
> until Bob uses the Bitcoin network to spend that BTC to another address
> that
> only he controls, it's still in joint custody. And if ensuring that he has
> control of the BTC is the last (implicit) step in the procedure above, as
> well
> as yours, then they might as well have simply used the Bitcoin network to
> do
> the transfer in the first place.
>
> Did I miss the point entirely?
>
Perhaps I've not described the problem statement as clearly as I could,
I'll work on it. Essentially it's an automated way to bootstrap the RSA
key community together with bitcoin. e.g. 99% of GPG users probably dont
have a bitcion wallet or address or client. I think maybe a user story
will help.
>
> -Craig
>
> PS. Re-reading, I realize that the above might come off sounding snarky or
> dismissive; it's not intended that way. I'm wondering if I'm missing
> the
> big picture.
>
Not snarky at all! Appreciate the feedback...
>
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 04:18:38PM +0200, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
> > So there's a slight world divide in digital payments with bitcoin using
> > ECDSA and GPG, payswarm / webid etc using largely RSA
> >
> > Here's how to bring the two worlds together and enable bitcoins be sent
> > over webid or payswarm
> >
> >
> > Problem: Alice and Bob have RSA key pairs, but no public bitcoin
> > addresses. Alice wants to send 1 BTC to Bob.
> >
> > 1. Alice takes Bob's WebID and encrpyts it with her private key (to
> create
> > entropy) ...
> >
> > 2. Alice uses that message as the seed to produce btc address (as per
> > http://brainwallet.org ) with ECDSA key pair
> >
> > 3. Alice sends coins to this address
> >
> > 4. Alice and then encrypts the seed again with Bob's public key
> >
> > 5. Bob decrypts the seed using his private key
> >
> > 6. Bob can now use the seed to recreate the wallet and spend the coins
> >
> > Unless I've made an error, I believe this unites the web paradigm and
> > crypto currency paradigm into one potentially giant eco system ...
>
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
> > New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring
> service
> > that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
> > browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
> > and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
> > Bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
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