From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org>
To: "Jorge Timón" <jtimon@monetize•io>
Cc: Bitcoin-Dev <bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] libzerocoin released, what about a zerocoin-only alt-coin with either-or mining
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:29:09 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20130715202909.GA9286@petertodd.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAC1+kJO+dWdr=7uHx4Qokpsir6+B-VCaweOe-_YG0OHvYwCA=w@mail.gmail.com>
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On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 03:05:52PM +0200, Jorge Timón wrote:
> One way sacrifice (btc to zerocoin) is a non-issue since there's no
> modification required for bitcoin and you can't do anything to prevent
> it anyway.
> The controversial thing is sacrificing something outside bitcoin's
> chain and new btc appearing.
Which is why I'm not proposing that.
> On merged mining. It is true that "merged attacking" the other chain
> is free, but it is still more profitable to just follow the rules and
> mine the other coin!!
> If someone considers that something he can sell in a market for btc is
> "negative value"...well, he's just dammed stupid. Proof of work is
> designed for rational actors, if you stop assuming miners are more or
> less rational everything falls apart. It is possible that the "extra
> value" is too little for some miners to bother. But the extra costs of
> validating something else are so little compared to chance-hashing
> that miners not merged mining namecoin right now are just stupid
> (irrational agents). You can merged mine and sell for btc right away.
You are assuming value is the same for everyone - it's not.
If I mine in a jurisdiction where zerocoin is banned, and the blocks I
mine are public, the value of zerocoin blocks to me are at best zero.
Equally it would be easy for the local authorities to ask that I merge
mine zerocoin blocks to attack the chain - it doesn't cost me anything
so what's the harm? I may even choose to do so to preserve the value of
the coins I can mine legally - alt-coins are competition.
Incedentally keep in mind it is likely that in the future pools will not
allow miners to modify the work units they receive in any way as a means
of combating block-withholding fraud; there may not be very many people
willing or able to honestly merge-mine any given chain.
Proof-of-sacrifice can be done in a way that is opaque to the master
blockchain by creating txouts that look no different from any other
txout. Hopefully not required, but it would be a good strategy against
censorship of sacrifice-based chains.
> On prime proof of work...for me it's interseting only because it's
> moving towards SCIP-based mining but that should be the goal. Like
> Mark said, "let's cure cancer" while mining. That would end all
> "mining is wasteful" arguments about this great security system. This
> would make Ripple's consensus mechanism less attractive. People
> talking about new scrypts harder to ASIC-mine when that's the elephant
> in the room...
> Sorry, I'm going off-topic.
> SCIP-based merged mining for the win.
SCIP is for now a dream. Give it a few more years and see how the
technology shakes out.
--
'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-07-15 20:29 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 22+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-07-05 14:01 Adam Back
2013-07-12 13:18 ` Peter Todd
2013-07-13 9:51 ` Jorge Timón
2013-07-13 9:53 ` Jorge Timón
2013-07-13 18:32 ` Peter Vessenes
2013-07-15 9:51 ` Peter Todd
2013-07-15 13:05 ` Jorge Timón
2013-07-15 20:29 ` Peter Todd [this message]
2013-07-16 3:54 ` Peter Vessenes
2013-07-13 18:42 ` Adam Back
2013-07-14 11:18 ` Jorge Timón
2013-07-14 19:22 ` John Dillon
2013-07-14 19:33 ` Luke-Jr
2013-07-14 19:42 ` Pieter Wuille
2013-07-14 19:52 ` John Dillon
2013-07-14 20:16 ` Luke-Jr
2013-07-15 0:12 ` Peter Todd
2013-07-15 1:51 ` Luke-Jr
2013-07-15 1:59 ` Peter Todd
2013-07-14 19:48 ` John Dillon
2013-07-15 0:14 ` Adam Back
2013-07-15 0:29 ` Peter Todd
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