From: Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@hozed•org>
To: Ricardo Filipe <ricardojdfilipe@gmail•com>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net>,
Gavin Andresen <gavin@bitcoinfoundation•org>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:00:02 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20140325220002.GZ3180@nl.grid.coop> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALC81CPrzRPsMcw2CLOFhDJx8We_cUQ7OW1OnkoDvLz4Uum_Cw@mail.gmail.com>
On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 08:40:40PM +0000, Ricardo Filipe wrote:
> 2014-03-25 13:49 GMT+00:00 Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org>:
> > On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 08:45:00AM -0400, Gavin Andresen wrote:
> >> On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Bitcoin doesn't scale. There's a lot of issues at hand here, but the
> >> > most fundemental of them is that to create a block you need to update
> >> > the state of the UTXO set, and the way Bitcoin is designed means that
> >> > updating that state requires bandwidth equal to all the transaction
> >> > volume to keep up with the changes to what set. Long story short, we get
> >> > O(n^2) scaling, which is just plain infeasible.
> >> >
> >>
> >> We have a fundamental disagreement here.
> >>
> >> If you go back and read Satoshi's original thoughts on scaling, it is clear
> >> that he imagined tens of thousands of mining nodes and hundreds of millions
> >> of lightweight SPV users.
> >
> > Yeah, about that...
> >
> > https://blockchain.info/pools
> >
>
> On-topic:
> This argument is quite the fallacy. The only reason we have that few
> pools is because each of their miners doesn't find it feasible to mine
> "on their own". if you count the individual miners on those pools you
> will get to the scale Gavin was trying to point out.
>
> Nevertheless i think that is just a minor disagreement, since tree
> chains help decentralization.
I think is actually a major fundamental disagreement, and opinions
tend to correlate strongly with salary considerations.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary
depends upon his not understanding it!" -- Upton Sinclair
Let us either agree to disagree, or get on with moderating this list
so that only sensible salaried discussions can take place.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-03-25 22:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-03-22 8:47 [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee Peter Todd
2014-03-22 13:53 ` Jorge Timón
2014-03-22 19:34 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-22 20:12 ` Jorge Timón
2014-03-23 23:17 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-23 23:53 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-03-24 20:34 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-24 20:57 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-03-25 22:10 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-26 1:09 ` kjj
2014-03-22 15:08 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-22 17:04 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-03-22 19:08 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-23 22:37 ` Troy Benjegerdes
[not found] ` <532DE7E6.4050304@monetize.io>
2014-03-25 12:28 ` [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary Peter Todd
2014-03-25 12:45 ` Gavin Andresen
2014-03-25 13:49 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 15:20 ` Mike Hearn
2014-03-25 16:47 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 17:37 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-03-25 18:02 ` Alan Reiner
2014-03-25 18:13 ` slush
2014-03-25 19:47 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 21:41 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-03-25 20:40 ` Ricardo Filipe
2014-03-25 22:00 ` Troy Benjegerdes [this message]
2014-03-26 10:58 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 12:50 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-25 21:03 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-03-25 22:34 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-03-27 16:14 ` Jorge Timón
2014-03-28 15:10 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-04-17 21:41 ` Tier Nolan
2014-03-26 10:48 ` Peter Todd
2014-08-03 17:23 ` Gregory Sanders
2014-03-24 21:17 ` [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee Luke-Jr
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