From: Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@hozed•org>
To: Eric Martindale <eric@ericmartindale•com>
Cc: bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net,
Andreas Schildbach <andreas@schildbach•de>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Why are we bleeding nodes?
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 14:46:01 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20140407194601.GP3180@nl.grid.coop> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAAf19Wrz0u_e5V9Gb=_CAG=mHtE9nA_VETgYZeCXZqwaGeYKuQ@mail.gmail.com>
I understand the theoretical benefits of multi-sig. But if you want
to make this mind-numbingly simple, do it on the *existing* single-sig.
But why in the world do we not have a *business* that offers bitcoin
wallet insurance? The bitcoin world (and this list) ran around blaming
MtGox and users for being 'stupid' to trust mtgox.
So start a multi-level marketing business that offers *insurance* so
if your bitcoin wallet gets hacked/stolen/whatever, your 'upstream'
or whomever sold you the wallet comes to your house with a new
computer or installs the new wallet software, or whatever, or just
makes it good.
Now, if the **insurance underwriter** decides that multisig will
reduce fraud, and **tests it**, then I'd say we do multi-sig. But right
now we are just a bunch of technology wizards trying to force our own
opinions about what's right and 'simple' for end users without ever
asking the damn end-users.
And then we call the end-users idiots because some scammer calls them
and says "I'm calling from Microsoft and your computer is broke, please
download this software to fix it".
Multi-sig is more magical moon-math that scammers will exploit to con
your grandma out of bitcoin, and then your friends will call her a stupid
luddite for falling for it.
Fix the cultural victim-blaming bullshit and you'll fix the node bleeding
problem.
On Mon, Apr 07, 2014 at 10:15:15AM -0400, Eric Martindale wrote:
> We need to make it so mind-numbingly simple to "run Bitcoin correctly" that
> the average user doesn't find reasons to do so in the course of normal
> use. Right now, Coinbase and Bitstamp are winning in the user experience
> battle, which technically endanger the user, and by proxy the Bitcoin
> network.
>
> Multi-sig as a default is a start. It won't succeed unless the user
> experience is simply better than trusted third parties, but we need to
> start the education process with the very basic fundamental: trusting a
> third-party with full access to your Bitcoin is just replacing one
> centralized banking system with another.
>
> Eric Martindale
> Developer Evangelist, BitPay
> +1 (919) 374-2020
> On Apr 7, 2014 7:05 AM, "Mike Hearn" <mike@plan99•net> wrote:
>
> > My guess is that a large number of users have lost interest after they
> >> lost their money in MtGox. The 24th of February coincides with the
> >> "final" shutdown
> >
> >
> > Sigh. It would not be surprising if MtGox has indeed dealt the community a
> > critical blow in this regard. TX traffic is down since then too:
> >
> >
> > https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular?timespan=60days&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=
> >
> > Judging from comments and the leaked user db, it seems a lot of well known
> > people lost money there (not me fortunately). I wish I could say people
> > have learned but from the size of the deposit base at Bitstamp they clearly
> > have not. A lot of Bitcoin users don't seem to be ready to be their own
> > bank, yet still want to own some on the assumption everyone else either is
> > or soon will be. So it's really only a matter of time until something goes
> > wrong with some large bitbank again, either Bitstamp or Coinbase.
> >
> > Some days I wonder if Bitcoin will be killed off by people who just refuse
> > to use it properly before it ever gets a chance to shine. The general
> > public doesn't distinguish between "Bitcoin users" who deposit with a third
> > party and the real Bitcoin users who don't.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Put Bad Developers to Shame
> > Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration
> > Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment
> > Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees_APR
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Put Bad Developers to Shame
> Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration
> Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment
> Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees_APR
> _______________________________________________
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--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Troy Benjegerdes 'da hozer' hozer@hozed•org
7 elements earth::water::air::fire::mind::spirit::soul grid.coop
Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel,
nor try buy a hacker who makes money by the megahash
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-04-07 19:46 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 70+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-04-07 11:34 Mike Hearn
2014-04-07 12:17 ` Ricardo Filipe
2014-04-07 13:43 ` Andreas Schildbach
2014-04-07 14:05 ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-07 14:15 ` Eric Martindale
2014-04-07 14:23 ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-07 19:46 ` Troy Benjegerdes [this message]
2014-04-08 3:13 ` kjj
2014-04-08 7:50 ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-09 10:38 ` Wendell
2014-04-09 11:15 ` Wladimir
2014-04-07 14:45 ` Tom Harding
2014-04-07 12:19 ` Jameson Lopp
2014-04-07 12:26 ` Pieter Wuille
2014-04-07 12:34 ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-07 12:34 ` Jameson Lopp
2014-05-20 18:38 ` Isidor Zeuner
2014-04-07 13:50 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-07 13:53 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-07 13:58 ` Jameson Lopp
2014-04-07 14:04 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-08 11:28 ` Jesus Cea
2014-04-07 15:45 ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-07 15:53 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-07 16:02 ` Jameson Lopp
2014-04-07 16:27 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-04-07 16:57 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-07 17:01 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-04-07 17:16 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-07 17:35 ` Brent Shambaugh
2014-04-07 17:40 ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-07 17:44 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-07 17:45 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-07 17:50 ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-07 18:30 ` Arne Brutschy
2014-04-07 17:56 ` Brent Shambaugh
2014-04-07 17:46 ` Justus Ranvier
2014-04-07 17:39 ` Chris Williams
2014-04-07 18:23 ` Mike Hearn
2014-04-07 18:35 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-07 18:49 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-07 19:00 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-07 18:48 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-04-07 19:02 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-07 19:05 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-07 19:03 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-07 19:13 ` Tier Nolan
2014-04-07 19:20 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-07 19:13 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-04-07 19:36 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-07 21:46 ` Ricardo Filipe
2014-04-07 19:30 ` Paul Lyon
2014-04-07 19:50 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-07 21:48 ` Tier Nolan
2014-04-07 21:56 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-04-08 3:44 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-04-08 7:24 ` Jean-Paul Kogelman
2014-04-08 7:59 ` Tamas Blummer
2014-04-08 17:18 ` Andrew LeCody
2014-04-07 17:07 ` Drak
2014-05-20 8:15 ` bitcoingrant
2014-05-20 8:42 ` Mike Hearn
2014-05-20 14:37 ` Eugen Leitl
2014-05-20 14:52 ` Gmail
2014-05-20 18:46 ` Andy Alness
2014-05-20 19:17 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-05-20 20:09 ` Andy Alness
2014-05-20 20:22 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-04-07 21:55 Paul Lyon
2014-04-07 22:14 ` Tier Nolan
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