From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org>
To: Michael Naber <mickeybob@gmail•com>
Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A Proposed Compromise to the Block Size Limit
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2015 13:34:51 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20150627173451.GA28181@muck> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALgxB7tsmHGiGuCmcdNuwjKxNfBpdq6U+x8eK=7sL6NekAfXow@mail.gmail.com>
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On Sat, Jun 27, 2015 at 01:25:14PM -0400, Michael Naber wrote:
> Global network consensus means that there is global network recognition
> that a particular transaction has occurred and is irreversible. The
> off-chain solutions you describe, while probably useful for other purposes,
> do not exhibit this characteristic and so they are not global network
> consensus networks.
Hub-and-spoke payment channels and the Lightning network are not
off-chain solutions, they are ways to more efficiently use on-chain
transactions to achive the goal of moving assets from point a to point
b, resulting in more economic transactions being done with fewer - but
not zero! - blockchain transactions.
Off-chain transaction systems such as Changetip allow economic
transactions to happen with no blockchain transactions at all.
> Bitcoin Core scales as O(N), where N is the number of transactions. Can we
> do better than this while still achieving global consensus?
No, Bitcoin the network scales with O(n^2) with your above criteria, as
each node creates k transactions, thus each node has to verify k*n
transactions, resulting in O(n^2) total work.
For Bitcoin to have O(n) scaling you have to assume that the number of
validation nodes doesn't scale with the number of users, thus resulting
in a system where users trust others to do validation for them. That is
not a global consensus system; that's a trust-based system.
There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but why change Bitcoin
itself into a trust-based system, when you can preserve the global
consensus functionality, and built a trust-based system on top of it?
--
'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-06-27 17:35 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 43+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-06-27 14:39 Michael Naber
2015-06-27 15:21 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 15:29 ` Randi Joseph
2015-06-27 15:32 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 16:19 ` Michael Naber
2015-06-27 17:20 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 17:26 ` Benjamin
2015-06-27 17:37 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 17:46 ` Benjamin
2015-06-27 17:54 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 17:58 ` Venzen Khaosan
2015-06-27 19:34 ` Benjamin
2015-06-27 15:33 ` Adam Back
2015-06-27 16:09 ` Michael Naber
2015-06-27 16:28 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-06-27 16:37 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-27 17:25 ` Michael Naber
2015-06-27 17:34 ` Peter Todd [this message]
2015-06-27 18:02 ` Jameson Lopp
2015-06-27 18:47 ` Peter Todd
2015-06-28 5:34 Raystonn
2015-06-28 10:07 ` Adam Back
2015-06-28 10:29 ` Benjamin
2015-06-28 12:37 ` Adam Back
2015-06-28 16:32 ` Raystonn .
2015-06-28 17:12 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-06-28 17:18 ` Benjamin
2015-06-28 17:29 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-06-28 17:45 ` Mark Friedenbach
2015-06-28 17:51 ` Adam Back
2015-06-28 18:58 ` Adam Back
2015-06-28 21:05 ` Gavin Andresen
2015-06-28 21:23 ` Michael Naber
2015-06-28 22:07 ` Adam Back
2015-06-29 0:59 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-06-29 1:13 ` Eric Lombrozo
2015-06-29 1:45 ` Andy Schroder
2015-06-30 0:42 ` Tom Harding
2015-07-10 2:55 ` Tom Harding
2015-06-28 17:53 ` Jorge Timón
2015-06-28 19:22 ` Andrew Lapp
2015-06-28 19:40 ` Benjamin
2015-06-28 12:32 ` Milly Bitcoin
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