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* [bitcoin-dev] BIP 151 MITM
@ 2016-06-08 23:47 Alfie John
  2016-06-09  1:24 ` Gregory Maxwell
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Alfie John @ 2016-06-08 23:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bitcoin-dev

Hi folks,

Overall I think BIP 151 is a good idea. However unless I'm mistaken, what's to
prevent someone between peers to suppress the initial 'encinit' message during
negotiation, causing both to fallback to plaintext?

Peers should negotiate a secure channel from the outset or backout entirely
with no option of falling back. This can be indicated loudly by the daemon
listening on an entirely new port.

Alfie

-- 
Alfie John
https://www.alfie.wtf


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

• * Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 151 MITM
    2016-06-08 23:47 [bitcoin-dev] BIP 151 MITM Alfie John
  @ 2016-06-09  1:24 ` Gregory Maxwell
    2016-06-09  1:42   ` Alfie John
    0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
  From: Gregory Maxwell @ 2016-06-09  1:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
    To: Alfie John, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
  
  On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 11:47 PM, Alfie John via bitcoin-dev
  <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
  > Hi folks,
  >
  > Overall I think BIP 151 is a good idea. However unless I'm mistaken, what's to
  > prevent someone between peers to suppress the initial 'encinit' message during
  > negotiation, causing both to fallback to plaintext?
  >
  > Peers should negotiate a secure channel from the outset or backout entirely
  > with no option of falling back. This can be indicated loudly by the daemon
  > listening on an entirely new port.
  
  Reduction to plaintext isn't an interesting attack vector for an
  active attacker: they can simply impersonate the remote side.
  
  This is addressed via authentication, where available, which is done
  by a separate specification that builds on this one.
  
  Without authentication this only provides protection against passive attackers.
  
  
  ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

• • * Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 151 MITM
      2016-06-09  1:24 ` Gregory Maxwell
    @ 2016-06-09  1:42   ` Alfie John
      2016-06-09  6:57     ` Jonas Schnelli
      0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
    From: Alfie John @ 2016-06-09  1:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
      To: Gregory Maxwell; +Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
    
    On Thu, Jun 09, 2016 at 01:24:09AM +0000, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
    > Reduction to plaintext isn't an interesting attack vector for an active
    > attacker: they can simply impersonate the remote side.
    >
    > This is addressed via authentication, where available, which is done by a
    > separate specification that builds on this one.
    
    Are there any links to discussions on how authentication may be done?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Alfie
    
    -- 
    Alfie John
    https://www.alfie.wtf
    
    
    ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

  • • * Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 151 MITM
        2016-06-09  1:42   ` Alfie John
      @ 2016-06-09  6:57     ` Jonas Schnelli
        2016-06-09  7:00       ` Alfie John
        0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
      From: Jonas Schnelli @ 2016-06-09  6:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
        To: bitcoin-dev
      
      
      [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 957 bytes --]
      
      Hi
      
      > On Thu, Jun 09, 2016 at 01:24:09AM +0000, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
      >> Reduction to plaintext isn't an interesting attack vector for an active
      >> attacker: they can simply impersonate the remote side.
      >>
      >> This is addressed via authentication, where available, which is done by a
      >> separate specification that builds on this one.
      > 
      > Are there any links to discussions on how authentication may be done?
      
      I'm currently working on the Auth-BIP which is not worth reviewing it
      right now (I will post it to the mailing list once it has been reached a
      stable level where it can be discusses).
      
      If you can't wait, here is the current work:
      https://github.com/jonasschnelli/bips/blob/35d7e382cdd6955ff42726c3d06c44e33f61ae52/bip-undef-0.mediawiki
      
      
      Most recent MITM/auth discussion (there where plenty of discussions on
      IRC about this topic):
      https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/2016-04-04/?msg=63463826&page=3
      
      
      </jonas>
      
      
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      ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

    • • * Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 151 MITM
          2016-06-09  6:57     ` Jonas Schnelli
        @ 2016-06-09  7:00       ` Alfie John
          0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
        From: Alfie John @ 2016-06-09  7:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
          To: Jonas Schnelli, Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
        
        On Thu, Jun 09, 2016 at 08:57:29AM +0200, Jonas Schnelli via bitcoin-dev wrote:
        > > Are there any links to discussions on how authentication may be done?
        > 
        > I'm currently working on the Auth-BIP which is not worth reviewing it
        > right now (I will post it to the mailing list once it has been reached a
        > stable level where it can be discusses).
        > 
        > If you can't wait, here is the current work:
        > https://github.com/jonasschnelli/bips/blob/35d7e382cdd6955ff42726c3d06c44e33f61ae52/bip-undef-0.mediawiki
        > 
        > Most recent MITM/auth discussion (there where plenty of discussions on
        > IRC about this topic):
        > https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/2016-04-04/?msg=63463826&page=3
        
        Awesome, thanks for the link Jonas.
        
        Alfie
        
        -- 
        Alfie John
        https://www.alfie.wtf
        
        
        ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2016-06-09  7:00 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2016-06-08 23:47 [bitcoin-dev] BIP 151 MITM Alfie John
2016-06-09  1:24 ` Gregory Maxwell
2016-06-09  1:42   ` Alfie John
2016-06-09  6:57     ` Jonas Schnelli
2016-06-09  7:00       ` Alfie John

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