From: Andrew Poelstra <apoelstra@wpsoftware•net>
To: Ethan Heilman <eth3rs@gmail•com>
Cc: ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>,
"lightning-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org"
<lightning-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] OP_CAT was Re: Continuing the discussion about noinput / anyprevout
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2019 16:56:51 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20191009165651.GN13224@boulet> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAEM=y+XbP3Dn7X8rHu7h0vbX6DkKA0vFK5nQqzcJ_V+D4EVMmw@mail.gmail.com>
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On Thu, Oct 03, 2019 at 11:05:52AM -0400, Ethan Heilman wrote:
> To avoid derailing the NO_INPUT conversation, I have changed the
> subject to OP_CAT.
>
> Responding to:
> """
> * `SIGHASH` flags attached to signatures are a misdesign, sadly
> retained from the original BitCoin 0.1.0 Alpha for Windows design, on
> par with:
> [..]
> * `OP_CAT` and `OP_MULT` and `OP_ADD` and friends
> [..]
> """
>
> OP_CAT is an extremely valuable op code. I understand why it was
> removed as the situation at the time with scripts was dire. However
> most of the protocols I've wanted to build on Bitcoin run into the
> limitation that stack values can not be concatenated. For instance
> TumbleBit would have far smaller transaction sizes if OP_CAT was
> supported in Bitcoin. If it happens to me as a researcher it is
> probably holding other people back as well. If I could wave a magic
> wand and turn on one of the disabled op codes it would be OP_CAT. Of
> course with the change that size of each concatenated value must be 64
> Bytes or less.
>
Just throwing my two cents in here - as others have noted, OP_CAT
lets you create Merkle trees (allowing e.g. log-sized accountable
threshold sigs, at least in a post-Schnorr future).
It also allows manipulating signatures - e.g. forcing the revelation
of discrete logs by requiring the user use the (1/2) point as a nonce
(this starts with 11 zero bytes, which no other computationally
accessible point does), or by requiring two sigs with the same nonce.
It also lets you do proof-of-work-like computations on hashes or
curvepoints; or enforce that EC points come from a hash and have
no known discrete log. You can also switch on hashes, something
currently impossible because of the 4-byte limitation on numeric
opcodes. I don't have specific application of these in mind but
definitely have cut off many lines of inquiry because they were
impossible.
You could build a crappy Lamport signature, though the key would
be so big that you'd never do this pre-MAST :P.
--
Andrew Poelstra
Director of Research, Blockstream
Email: apoelstra at wpsoftware.net
Web: https://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew
The sun is always shining in space
-Justin Lewis-Webster
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-10-09 16:56 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-09-30 13:23 [bitcoin-dev] " Christian Decker
2019-09-30 16:00 ` ZmnSCPxj
2019-09-30 23:28 ` ZmnSCPxj
2019-10-01 14:26 ` Christian Decker
2019-10-01 14:45 ` Anthony Towns
2019-10-01 15:42 ` ZmnSCPxj
2019-10-01 14:20 ` Christian Decker
2019-10-01 15:35 ` ZmnSCPxj
2019-10-03 9:42 ` Christian Decker
2019-10-01 12:23 ` Chris Stewart
2019-10-01 13:31 ` [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " ZmnSCPxj
2019-10-03 10:01 ` Christian Decker
2019-10-03 9:57 ` Christian Decker
[not found] ` <CACJVCgJ9PL-2jTS71--tXsa=QkK+f5_ciYLwv468WUno=XXAig@mail.gmail.com>
2019-10-01 14:27 ` Ethan Heilman
2019-10-01 15:14 ` Chris Stewart
2019-10-03 10:30 ` Christian Decker
2019-10-01 15:59 ` [bitcoin-dev] " Anthony Towns
2019-10-02 2:03 ` ZmnSCPxj
2019-10-03 1:47 ` [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " Anthony Towns
2019-10-03 3:07 ` ZmnSCPxj
2019-10-03 15:05 ` [bitcoin-dev] OP_CAT was " Ethan Heilman
2019-10-03 23:42 ` [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " ZmnSCPxj
2019-10-04 0:48 ` Ethan Heilman
2019-10-04 5:02 ` Jeremy
2019-10-04 7:00 ` ZmnSCPxj
2019-10-04 18:33 ` Jeremy
2019-10-04 11:15 ` Peter Todd
2019-10-04 18:40 ` Jeremy
2019-10-05 15:49 ` Peter Todd
2019-10-06 8:46 ` ZmnSCPxj
2019-10-06 9:12 ` Peter Todd
2019-10-06 7:02 ` Lloyd Fournier
2019-10-09 16:56 ` Andrew Poelstra [this message]
2019-10-02 15:11 ` [bitcoin-dev] " s7r
2019-10-03 11:08 ` Christian Decker
2019-10-05 10:06 ` Anthony Towns
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