From: Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr•org>
To: bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org,
Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail•com>
Cc: "lightning-dev\\\\@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
<lightning-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] On the scalability issues of onboarding millions of LN mobile clients
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 13:00:37 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <202005051300.38836.luke@dashjr.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALZpt+GBPbf+Pgctm5NViNons50aQs1RPQkEo3FW5RM4fL9ztA@mail.gmail.com>
On Tuesday 05 May 2020 10:17:37 Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Trust-minimization of Bitcoin security model has always relied first and
> above on running a full-node. This current paradigm may be shifted by LN
> where fast, affordable, confidential, censorship-resistant payment services
> may attract a lot of adoption without users running a full-node.
No, it cannot be shifted. This would compromise Bitcoin itself, which for
security depends on the assumption that a supermajority of the economy is
verifying their incoming transactions using their own full node.
The past few years has seen severe regressions in this area, to the point
where Bitcoin's future seems quite bleak. Without serious improvements to the
full node ratio, Bitcoin is likely to fail.
Therefore, all efforts to improve the "full node-less" experience are harmful,
and should be actively avoided. BIP 157 improves privacy of fn-less usage,
while providing no real benefits to full node users (compared to more
efficient protocols like Stratum/Electrum).
For this reason, myself and a few others oppose merging support for BIP 157 in
Core.
> Assuming a user adoption path where a full-node is required to benefit for
> LN may deprive a lot of users, especially those who are already denied a
> real financial infrastructure access.
If Bitcoin can't do it, then Bitcoin can't do it.
Bitcoin can't solve *any* problem if it becomes insecure itself.
Luke
P.S. See also
https://medium.com/@nicolasdorier/why-i-dont-celebrate-neutrino-206bafa5fda0
https://medium.com/@nicolasdorier/neutrino-is-dangerous-for-my-self-sovereignty-18fac5bcdc25
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-05-05 13:01 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 31+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-05-05 10:17 Antoine Riard
2020-05-05 13:00 ` Luke Dashjr [this message]
2020-05-05 13:49 ` [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " ZmnSCPxj
2020-05-05 17:09 ` John Newbery
2020-05-06 9:21 ` Antoine Riard
2020-05-05 15:16 ` [bitcoin-dev] " Lloyd Fournier
2020-05-12 21:05 ` Chris Belcher
2020-05-13 19:51 ` [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " Antoine Riard
2020-05-14 4:02 ` ZmnSCPxj
[not found] ` <45FD4FF1-1E09-4748-8B05-478DEF6C1966@ed.ac.uk>
2020-05-14 15:25 ` Keagan McClelland
2020-05-17 9:11 ` Christopher Allen
2020-05-14 15:27 ` William Casarin
2020-05-17 3:37 ` Antoine Riard
2020-05-06 9:06 ` [bitcoin-dev] " Antoine Riard
2020-05-06 16:00 ` [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " Keagan McClelland
2020-05-07 3:56 ` Antoine Riard
2020-05-07 4:07 ` Keagan McClelland
2020-05-08 19:51 ` Braydon Fuller
2020-05-08 20:01 ` Keagan McClelland
2020-05-08 20:22 ` Braydon Fuller
2020-05-08 21:29 ` Christopher Allen
2020-05-09 7:48 ` Antoine Riard
2020-05-06 0:31 ` Olaoluwa Osuntokun
2020-05-06 9:40 ` Antoine Riard
[not found] ` <CACJVCgL4fAs7-F2O+T-gvTbpjsHhgBrU73FaC=EUHG5iTi2m2Q@mail.gmail.com>
2020-05-11 5:44 ` ZmnSCPxj
2020-05-12 10:09 ` Richard Myers
2020-05-12 15:48 ` ZmnSCPxj
2020-05-08 19:33 ` Braydon Fuller
[not found] ` <CAGKT+VcZsMW_5jOqT2jxtbYTEPZU-NL8v3gZ8VJAP-bMe7iLSg@mail.gmail.com>
2020-05-06 8:27 ` Antoine Riard
2020-05-07 16:40 ` Igor Cota
2020-05-09 7:22 ` Antoine Riard
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