From: Matt Corallo <lf-lists@mattcorallo•com>
To: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd•org>
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>,
security@ariard•me,
"lightning-dev\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\@lists.linuxfoundation.org"
<lightning-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] Full Disclosure: CVE-2023-40231 / CVE-2023-40232 / CVE-2023-40233 / CVE-2023-40234 "All your mempool are belong to us"
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2023 21:03:49 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <24a18bdd-eef6-4f96-b8a5-05f64130a5c5@mattcorallo.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ZTMYGcRvHh0Iwe2y@petertodd.org>
On 10/20/23 8:15 PM, Peter Todd wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 05:05:48PM -0400, Matt Corallo wrote:
>> Sadly this only is really viable for pre-anchor channels. With anchor
>> channels the attack can be performed by either side of the closure, as the
>> HTLCs are now, at max, only signed SIGHASH_SINGLE|ANYONECANPAY, allowing you
>> to add more inputs and perform this attack even as the broadcaster.
>>
>> I don't think its really viable to walk that change back to fix this, as it
>> also fixed plenty of other issues with channel usability and important
>> edge-cases.
>
> What are anchor outputs used for other than increasing fees?
>
> Because if we've pre-signed the full fee range, there is simply no need for
> anchor outputs. Under any circumstance we can broadcast a transaction with a
> sufficiently high fee to get mined.
Indeed, that is what anchor outputs are for. Removing the pre-set feerate solved a number of issues
with edge-cases and helped address the fee-inflation attack. Now, just using pre-signed transactions
doesn't have to re-introduce those issues - as long as the broadcaster gets to pick which of the
possible transactions they broadcast its just another transaction of theirs.
Still, I'm generally really dubious of the multiple pre-signed transaction thing, (a) it would mean
more fee overhead (not the end of the world for a force-closure, but it sucks to have all these
individual transactions rolling around and be unable to batch), but more importantly (b) its a bunch
of overhead to keep track of a ton of variants across a sufficiently granular set of feerates for it
to not result in substantially overspending on fees.
Like I mentioned in the previous mail, this is really a policy bug - we're talking about a
transaction pattern that might well happen where miners aren't getting the optimal value in
transaction fees (potentially by a good bit). This needs to be fixed at the policy/Bitcoin Core
layer, not in the lightning world (as much as its pretty resource-intensive to fix in the policy
domain, I think).
Matt
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-10-21 1:04 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 59+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-10-16 16:57 [bitcoin-dev] " Antoine Riard
2023-10-16 19:13 ` Peter Todd
2023-10-16 22:10 ` Matt Morehouse
2023-10-17 1:11 ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-20 10:47 ` Peter Todd
2023-10-20 11:18 ` Jochen Hoenicke
2023-10-16 22:51 ` Olaoluwa Osuntokun
2023-10-17 7:21 ` [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " ziggie1984
2023-10-17 10:34 ` ZmnSCPxj
2023-10-17 18:34 ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-20 10:31 ` Peter Todd
2023-10-20 11:03 ` Peter Todd
2023-10-20 18:35 ` Matt Morehouse
2023-10-20 21:05 ` Matt Corallo
2023-10-21 0:15 ` Peter Todd
2023-10-21 1:03 ` Matt Corallo [this message]
2023-10-21 1:25 ` Peter Todd
2023-10-21 1:55 ` Matt Corallo
2023-10-21 2:43 ` Peter Todd
2023-10-23 16:09 ` Matt Corallo
2023-10-17 17:47 ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-17 18:47 ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-18 0:17 ` Matt Corallo
2023-10-18 2:57 ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-19 8:12 ` Bastien TEINTURIER
2023-10-19 16:23 ` Matt Morehouse
2023-10-19 17:22 ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-19 17:53 ` Matt Morehouse
2023-10-19 19:33 ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-21 0:18 ` Olaoluwa Osuntokun
2023-11-17 22:36 ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-19 18:02 ` Matt Corallo
2023-10-20 6:56 ` [bitcoin-dev] " Antoine Riard
2023-10-21 20:05 ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-27 0:43 ` Peter Todd
2023-11-02 4:46 ` Antoine Riard
2023-10-21 0:09 ` [bitcoin-dev] OP_Expire and Coinbase-Like Behavior: Making HTLCs Safer by Letting Transactions Expire Safely Peter Todd
2023-10-21 8:58 ` David A. Harding
2023-10-21 10:31 ` Peter Todd
2023-10-22 8:30 ` vjudeu
2023-10-23 11:10 ` [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " ZmnSCPxj
2023-10-23 15:45 ` Peter Todd
2023-11-02 5:24 ` [bitcoin-dev] " Antoine Riard
2023-11-02 6:26 ` Peter Todd
2023-11-02 17:07 ` Matt Morehouse
2023-11-03 5:27 ` Antoine Riard
2023-11-03 5:25 ` Antoine Riard
2023-11-04 7:26 ` Peter Todd
2023-11-06 18:45 ` Antoine Riard
2023-11-07 11:11 ` [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " ZmnSCPxj
2023-11-07 15:44 ` Antoine Riard
2023-11-08 0:51 ` [bitcoin-dev] " Peter Todd
2023-11-08 2:06 ` Peter Todd
2023-11-13 2:18 ` Antoine Riard
2023-11-14 19:50 ` Peter Todd
[not found] ` <CALZpt+H38cU9L8kq0mSYCDirzL39fxhdoz4pAPiS8dGJP8akKg@mail.gmail.com>
2023-11-15 17:53 ` [bitcoin-dev] Fwd: " Antoine Riard
2023-10-22 4:49 ` [bitcoin-dev] Full Disclosure: CVE-2023-40231 / CVE-2023-40232 / CVE-2023-40233 / CVE-2023-40234 "All your mempool are belong to us" Nadav Ivgi
2023-10-23 8:49 ` David A. Harding
2023-10-21 14:21 [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] " Nagaev Boris
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