From: Tomas Susanka <tomas.susanka@satoshilabs•com>
To: Pieter Wuille via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 174 thoughts
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 13:44:37 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <2699c3ac-63a8-6de4-07d8-002d4f903213@satoshilabs.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAPg+sBhNzxq0eZvnLK+k=J3pWs7zjGSGPzU8G76VeBZc3s9oOg@mail.gmail.com>
Hi,
On 19.6.2018 19:16, Pieter Wuille via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Yes, the reason is address reuse. It may be discouraged, but it still
> happens in practice (and unfortunately it's very hard to prevent
> people from sending to the same address twice).
>
> It's certainly possible to make them per-input (and even per-output as
> suggested below), but I don't think it gains you much. At least when a
> signer supports any kind of multisig, it needs to match up public keys
> with derivation paths. If several can be provided, looking them up
> from a global table or a per-input table shouldn't fundamentally
> change anything.
>
> However, perhaps it makes sense to get rid of the global section
> entirely, and make the whole format a transaction plus per-input and
> per-output extra fields. This would result in duplication in case of
> key reuse, but perhaps that's worth the complexity reduction.
I think having a global section with just one record (the transaction)
is just fine, in case we come up with some other fields later on which
would fit the global section. Otherwise I totally agree.
>> 2) The global items 0x01 (redeem script) and 0x02 (witness script) are
>> somewhat confusing. Let's consider only the redeem script (0x01) to make
>> it simple. The value description says: "A redeem script that will be
>> needed to sign a Pay-To-Script-Hash input or is spent to by an output.".
>> Does this mean that the record includes both input's redeem script
>> (because we need to sign it), but also a redeem script for the output
>> (to verify we are sending to a correct P2SH)? To mix those two seems
>> really confusing.
>>
>> Yet again, adding a new output section would make this more readable. We
>> would include the input’s redeem script in the input section and the
>> output’s redeem script again in the output section, because they’ll most
>> likely differ anyway.
> I think here it makes sense because there can actually only be (up to)
> one redeemscript and (up to) one witnessscript. So if we made those
> per-input and per-output, it may simplify signers as they don't need a
> table lookup to find the correct one. That would also mean we can drop
> their hashes, even if we keep a key-value model.
Yes, indeed. Just to clarify: in the first sentence you mean "per
output", right? There can actually only be (up to) one redeemscript and
(up to) one witnessscript *per output*.
>> 4) Is it a good idea to skip records which types we are unaware of? We
>> can't come up with a reasonable example, but intuitively this seems as a
>> potential security issue. We think we should consider introducing a
>> flag, which would define if the record is "optional". In case the signer
>> encounters a record it doesn't recognize and such flag is not set, it
>> aborts the procedure. If we assume the set model we could change the
>> structure to <type><optional flag><length>{data}. We are not keen on
>> this, but we wanted to include this idea to see what you think.
> Originally there was at least this intuition for why it shouldn't be
> necessary: the resulting signature for an input is either valid or
> invalid. Adding information to a PSBT (which is what signers do)
> either helps with that or not. The worst case is that they simply
> don't have enough information to produce a signature together. But an
> ignored unknown field being present should never result in signing the
> wrong thing (they can always see the transaction being signed), or
> failing to sign if signing was possible in the first place. Another
> way of looking at it, the operation of a signer is driven by queries:
> it looks at the scriptPubKey of the output being spent, sees it is
> P2SH, looks for the redeemscript, sees it is P2WSH, looks for the
> witnessscript, sees it is multisig, looks for other signers'
> signatures, finds enough for the threshold, and proceeds to sign and
> create a full transaction. If at any point one of those things is
> missing or not comprehensible to the signer, he simply fails and
> doesn't modify the PSBT.
The rationale behind this was, what if at some point we come up with a
PSBT record, which forbids some kind of operation or alters some
behaviour. In another words, by omitting such record the signer would
create a signature, which is valid, but actually signed something
different than the Creator intended.
> However, if the sighash request type becomes mandatory, perhaps this
> is not the case anymore, as misinterpreting something like this could
> indeed result in an incorrect signature.
I believe this use case illustrates it quite well. Let’s suppose the
sighash record is binding and the Signer does not know it. The Creator
creates a PSBT with sighash set SIGHASH_SINGLE. The Signer sings the
transaction with SIGHASH_ALL, because they are not aware of such field.
This results in a valid signature, however not what the Creator intended
it to be.
>> We’d also like to note that the “number of inputs” field should be
>> mandatory - and as such, possibly also a candidate for outside-record field.
> If we go with the "not put signatures/witnesses inside the transaction
> until all of them are finalized" suggestion, perhaps the number of
> inputs field can be dropped. There would be always one exactly for
> each input (but some may have the "final script/witness" field and
> others won't).
Agree. I'm be fine with dropping the field completely in that case.
Thanks,
Tomas
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-06-21 11:51 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 55+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-06-15 23:34 Pieter Wuille
2018-06-16 15:00 ` Peter D. Gray
2018-06-19 9:38 ` Jonas Schnelli
2018-06-19 14:20 ` matejcik
2018-06-19 15:20 ` Jonas Schnelli
2018-06-21 20:28 ` Peter D. Gray
2018-06-19 17:16 ` Pieter Wuille
2018-06-21 11:29 ` matejcik
2018-06-21 17:39 ` Pieter Wuille
2018-06-21 11:44 ` Tomas Susanka [this message]
2018-06-19 14:22 ` matejcik
2018-06-21 0:39 ` Achow101
2018-06-21 14:32 ` Tomas Susanka
2018-06-21 15:40 ` Greg Sanders
2018-06-21 19:56 ` Peter D. Gray
2018-06-21 21:39 ` Gregory Maxwell
2018-06-22 19:10 ` Pieter Wuille
2018-06-22 22:28 ` Achow101
2018-06-23 17:00 ` William Casarin
2018-06-23 20:33 ` Andrew Chow
2018-06-24 8:19 ` Andrea
2018-06-24 8:28 ` Andrew Chow
2018-06-24 9:00 ` Andrea
2018-06-23 18:27 ` Peter D. Gray
2018-06-25 19:47 ` Tomas Susanka
2018-06-25 20:10 ` Jonas Schnelli
2018-06-25 20:30 ` Achow101
2018-06-26 15:33 ` matejcik
2018-06-26 16:58 ` William Casarin
2018-06-26 17:11 ` Marek Palatinus
2018-06-27 14:11 ` matejcik
2018-06-26 20:30 ` Pieter Wuille
2018-06-27 14:04 ` matejcik
2018-06-27 15:06 ` Pieter Wuille
2018-06-29 9:53 ` matejcik
2018-06-29 19:12 ` Achow101
2018-06-29 20:31 ` Peter D. Gray
2018-07-04 13:19 ` matejcik
2018-07-04 18:35 ` Achow101
2018-07-05 17:23 ` Jason Les
2018-07-04 19:09 ` Pieter Wuille
2018-07-05 11:52 ` matejcik
2018-07-05 22:06 ` Pieter Wuille
2018-07-10 12:10 ` matejcik
2018-07-11 18:27 ` Pieter Wuille
2018-07-11 20:05 ` Gregory Maxwell
2018-07-11 20:54 ` [bitcoin-dev] BIP 174 thoughts on graphics vv01f
2018-06-26 21:56 ` [bitcoin-dev] BIP 174 thoughts Achow101
2018-06-27 6:09 ` William Casarin
2018-06-27 13:39 ` Andrea
2018-06-27 17:55 ` Achow101
2018-06-28 20:42 ` Rodolfo Novak
2018-07-05 19:20 ` William Casarin
2018-07-06 18:59 ` Achow101
2018-06-20 0:39 Jason Les
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