From: nullius <nullius@nym•zone>
To: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost•nl>,
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Cc: arachnid@notdot•net
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 39: Add language identifier strings for wordlists
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 18:08:50 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <55374d9210feebf2f758d4e7b21849ee@nym.zone> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <BB3FA46E-AA09-4A60-9D0F-8E350015E107@sprovoost.nl>
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On 2018-01-05 at 16:04:10 +0000, Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost•nl>
wrote:
>I’m not a fan of language specific word lists within the current BIP-39
>standard. Very few wallets support anything other than English, which
>can lead to vendor lock-in and long term loss of funds if a rare
>non-English wallet disappears.
>
>However, because people can memorize things better in their native
>tongue, supporting multiple languages seems quite useful.
>
>I would prefer a new standard [...] A replacement for BIP-39 [...]
>
>[snip]
>For my above point and some related ideas, see:
>https://github.com/satoshilabs/slips/issues/103
You present some interesting ideas; and I will be much interested in the
Github issue you referenced—thanks for that. However, this discussion
is *far* beyond the scope of my simple proposal and request to add
standardized native language and short-ASCII identifier strings to the
BIP repository. I suggest that readers solely interested in the
existing BIP 39 standard and its direct application to Bitcoin should
stop reading right here.
----
That being said, I should briefly address some of the issues you raise
(with further discussion best continued elsewhere):
I *strongly* urge the importance of language-specific standardized
wordlists. Even an individual who has secondarily acquired reasonable
fluency in English will most likely have the least difficulty
memorizing, transcribing, and otherwise handling a “mother-tongue”
mnemonic. Such an advantage is important in applications whereby even
slight errors can be fatal, and every bit counts. This is to say
nothing of persons who have limited or no English-language knowledge.
Yet for multiple reasons, multilanguage support is only feasible with
standardization. Wordlist creation is a highly specialized task.
Independent implementation of standards is imperative for avoiding
implementation lock-in; and independent implementors (such as I) would
be unable to create sets multi-language wordlists on their own, anyway.
For a view of the language-specific process involved in creating a
wordlist, I invite everybody following this discussion to review BIP
repository PRs #92, #130 (Japanese); #100 (Spanish); #114 (Chinese, both
variants); #152 (French); #306 (Italian); #544 (Korean, rejected); and
#570 (Korean). The rejection of #544 for Korean, and its superseding
with #570 is particularly instructive.
With standardized wordlists, independent implementation is easy. In my
own implementation, the language switching backend (excluding the UI[1])
for multilingual mnemonic generation required only relatively small C
code changes, as seen here[0]:
[0] https://github.com/nym-zone/easyseed/commit/5b6a6668458d96d6ccc4bf19e4fd40fe6ea72fec#diff-20dcf1782b7568b85ea01ed695abeb02
[1] https://github.com/nym-zone/easyseed/commit/1a6e48bbdac9366d9d5d1912dc062dfc3f0db2c6#diff-20dcf1782b7568b85ea01ed695abeb02
Admittedly, the multilingual requirements for seed generation will take
a bit more; and my nonstandard, non-BIP39 ideas which require decoding
words directly back to bits will take yet more. But it is still not
problematic.
I only began writing this tool one week ago, as of today; and it has
been a side project requiring small amounts of time, not a full-time
dedicated task. When I fully complete all aspects of seed generation,
then users will have the option of another simple open-source tool which
*will* be able to output a binary or BIP-32-formatted (“xprv”) 512-bit
seed, given input of an existing mnemonic in any language supported by
official BIP 39 wordlists. Output can then be imported to any wallet
software which supports BIP 32, regardless of the wallet’s langauge
support (and whether or not the wallet supports BIP 39 at all).
**The ease of creating such tools squarely answers your concerns about
vendor lock-in.** And yes, it’s easy. I can attest as a lone coder,
it’s easy for me to create “easyseed” as a side project!
Finally, aside: In the discussion at SLIP repository issue #103, I see
mention of m-of-n SSSS. I have been mentally whiteboarding just such an
application involving mnemonics. Watch for it. <g> It is likely that
I will crib the BIP 39 wordlists, given the impossibility that I could
create my own set of wordlists in many languages. I only wish that the
BIP repository had support for more languages. More! Adding each new
language to my implementation(s) will require approximately one-line
code changes for me.
(Aside further: Why is there not a Dutch wordlist? I should like to
add that, please—meneer Provoost. More wordlists!)
Aside still yet further: Should you be interested in more general
applications of mnemonic phrases for pseudorandom strings, I think you
will like this future feature which currently exists only as an Easter
egg, (un)documented in my commit log:
https://github.com/nym-zone/easyseed/commit/ba77be1b1a1f0c6af50ceba5c89f4adece7e5dff
Further discussion is invited by private mail, in an appropriate public
venue, or otherwise not on a bitcoin-dev thread which makes a simple
request and proposal as to the existing BIP 39 standard—thanks.
--
nullius@nym•zone | PGP ECC: 0xC2E91CD74A4C57A105F6C21B5A00591B2F307E0C
Bitcoin: bc1qcash96s5jqppzsp8hy8swkggf7f6agex98an7h | (Segwit nested:
3NULL3ZCUXr7RDLxXeLPDMZDZYxuaYkCnG) (PGP RSA: 0x36EBB4AB699A10EE)
“‘If you’re not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide.’
No! Because I do nothing wrong, I have nothing to show.” — nullius
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-01-05 18:09 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 18+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-01-05 13:58 nullius
2018-01-05 16:04 ` Sjors Provoost
[not found] ` <CALPhJax=53dLL9+JDKJC7NdEFFRB2kgKiECSh8PUMzrr2KxWuQ@mail.gmail.com>
2018-01-05 17:13 ` Sjors Provoost
2018-01-05 18:08 ` Aymeric Vitte
[not found] ` <CALPhJaxzayykMMxaa421kfu6QQ77JD7bZJk8+dXT4qSqK_eABg@mail.gmail.com>
2018-01-05 19:56 ` Aymeric Vitte
[not found] ` <CALPhJawP7hjucR6X3gpTxCxK+awMT9iArELZYFy_zffCGgVMEw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <58C8F1BA-B9A1-4525-BCC9-BF4CEDC87E1B@sprovoost.nl>
[not found] ` <a3e10fe7-ed9c-bb58-bf12-d0aeda2827e4@gmail.com>
[not found] ` <a2e8b3e2-b444-039c-c51e-43294a3437c9@gmail.com>
[not found] ` <CALPhJaz1wU8y6KxZipREjus8WbHpwpyYjyMwgj5x-tTodxpjCQ@mail.gmail.com>
2018-01-06 17:40 ` Aymeric Vitte
[not found] ` <CALPhJaw8_wpPCRj58JcZqLnEvOtLoo=U_VBYRLSKTCeN7TFB6A@mail.gmail.com>
2018-01-06 19:46 ` Aymeric Vitte
2018-01-05 18:08 ` nullius [this message]
2018-01-07 15:16 ` Pavol Rusnak
2018-01-08 7:35 ` 木ノ下じょな
2018-01-08 11:13 ` nullius
2018-01-08 14:34 ` Greg Sanders
2018-01-08 14:52 ` Matias Alejo Garcia
2018-01-08 14:54 ` Greg Sanders
2018-01-08 15:23 ` Matias Alejo Garcia
2018-01-08 15:26 ` AJ West
2018-01-08 15:32 ` Greg Sanders
2018-01-08 16:02 ` Aymeric Vitte
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