From: "Odinn Cyberguerrilla" <odinn.cyberguerrilla@riseup•net>
To: bitcoin-development@lists•sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Stealth Addresses
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 09:54:01 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <58e17f354c20e595f0cfeddfa47c2f3e.squirrel@fulvetta.riseup.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20140114141517.GA29950@savin>
Hello Peter et. al.
As I read more into this stealth discussion I am curious to know what you
think of the background microdonation concept I posted recently.
It is shown in full here
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=31837430
Given the lengthy nature of the concept as presented I would be happy to
distill it further, but I am interested in your thoughts as to the idea
generally and how to further present it.
-Odinn
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 01:13:08AM -0800, Jeremy Spilman wrote:
>> It's a given this will be implemented for Payment Protocol. The question
>> is whether it's also usable outside of PP.
>
> I think what stealth addresses is showing is that the concept of an
> address being "instructions on how to generate a txout/tx that results
> in me getting Bitcoins" is actually quite valuable; it and
> BIP32-derivation addresses with chaincodes are pretty clear cases where
> just replacing address with scriptPubKey isn't sufficient.
>
>> I was kind of imagining that we could encourage people to replace all
>> their static address text that live on Github pages, and README.me, and
>> forum signatures, etc. with new 'href=bitcoin:xSTL...' URIs. Convention
>> could be to require only transporting xSTL addresses within a URI, even
>> going so far as to not support them copy/pasted. 101 characters is not
>> much longer (and sometimes shorter) than PaymentRequest URIs end up
>> being.
>
> Yeah, I don't see anything wrong with stealth addresses whatever length
> they wind up being. It's a good intermediate step, and without them
> people will just pass around unsigned payment requests and other stuff.
>
>> I think there are ways to make stealth addresses easy enough to use that
>> people actually prefer using them for P2P payments which do not involve
>> a
>> full-stack merchant. In that case, if it was a PaymentRequest it would
>> almost certainly not be signed, and would be more easily shared over
>> email
>> or SMS as a URI than as a file attachment or, even worse, putting the
>> unsigned PR file up on a third-party server which probably won't do a
>> good
>> job securing it.
>
> At the DarkWallet hackathon we had discussed how to integrate stealth
> addresses into OpenPGP keys as a new user id type for instance, and
> similarly into x.509 certs.
>
> The big advantage here is the identity of *who* you are paying is
> important, not just "I got this signed payment request". Basically the
> concept becomes "identity signed payment address" and the signature
> binding the identity to the address is a one time and offline thing; an
> issue with the payment protocol as it stands is that it encourages
> signing keys to be kept online to issue payment requests. If you have a
> scheme where the private keys that bound the identity to the address can
> be kept offline you're much better off, because the attacker can only
> create a fake payment request, they can't divert the funds to
> themselves.
>
> So with that in mind, I strongly suggest sticking with defining a
> reasonable stealth address spec. But when you do, keep in mind that you
> may want to upgrade it in the future, preferably in a backwards
> compatible way. Also, it shouldn't be limited to exactly 2-of-2
> CHECKMULTISIG, there's no reason why n and m can't be picked as needed.
> Sure, it means the addresses are not fixed length, but for something
> that is mostly an internal detail and only occasionally visible to
> advanced users, I see no issues there.
>
> Along those lines: what would a BIP32 chain code address look like? What
> happens when you want to use that with a multisig-protected wallet?
>
>> * PP Implementation Overview *
>>
>> The basic PaymentRequest>PaymentDetails is expecting 'output' containing
>> one or more TxOuts with script and amount. I believe the general
>> approach
>> is to put a fallback address into 'output' for backward compatibility,
>> and
>> put Q and Q2 into an extension field.
>>
>> So we add a new optional field to PaymentDetails which contains the one
>> or
>> two PubKeys. Not sure if we want different protobuf tags, or if the
>> difference in length of the value makes it obvious enough which approach
>> is being used;
>>
>> optional bytes stealthOnePubKey = 1000
>> optional bytes stealthTwoPubKey = 1001
>
> I think you're missing the bigger picture here, not least of which is
> that backwards compatibility is a bit of a misnomer for an unreleased
> standard. :)
>
> Why put this into the PaymentDetails? That a stealth address is to be
> used for the payment is a property of the outputs being requested, not
> the payment itself. We're better off if that goes into the Output
> message, and further more it suggests that the Output message shouldn't
> contain raw scriptPubKey's but rather addresses. After all, IsStandard()
> means we have to inspect the scriptPubKey to see if we can even pay to
> what the sender is requesting.
>
> Once you establish that it's addresses that Outputs specify, then it's
> easy enough to make a stealth address type, or a BIP32-chain-code
> address type, or whatever else comes up in the future.
>
>
>> Also, ideally I think I would want multiple different stealth payments
>> within a single wallet to the same merchant / pubkeys to be identifiable
>> as such.
>
> Agreed.
>
> --
> 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-01-14 17:54 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 88+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-01-06 12:03 Peter Todd
2014-01-08 10:20 ` Jeremy Spilman
2014-01-10 10:20 ` Peter Todd
2014-01-10 11:28 ` Drak
2014-01-10 12:00 ` Peter Todd
2014-01-12 10:33 ` Jeremy Spilman
2014-01-12 12:51 ` Mike Hearn
2014-01-12 18:20 ` Jeremy Spilman
2014-01-12 18:26 ` Mike Hearn
2014-01-13 9:13 ` Jeremy Spilman
2014-01-14 14:15 ` Peter Todd
2014-01-14 17:54 ` Odinn Cyberguerrilla [this message]
2014-01-12 21:18 ` Gavin Andresen
2014-01-13 9:52 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-01-13 10:39 ` Mike Hearn
2014-01-13 13:37 ` Roy Badami
2014-01-13 15:58 ` Mike Hearn
2014-01-13 20:11 ` Roy Badami
2014-01-14 22:53 ` Roy Badami
2014-01-15 0:19 ` Drak
2014-01-15 20:22 ` Ben Davenport
2014-01-15 20:38 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-01-15 20:44 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-01-15 22:38 ` [Bitcoin-development] Static addresses on chains encouraging address *RE* use Troy Benjegerdes
2014-01-15 23:01 ` [Bitcoin-development] Stealth Addresses Mike Hearn
2014-01-15 23:04 ` Roy Badami
2014-01-15 23:07 ` Jeff Garzik
2014-01-15 23:17 ` Roy Badami
2014-01-15 23:19 ` Roy Badami
2014-01-15 23:09 ` [Bitcoin-development] unlinakble static address? & spv-privacy (Re: Stealth Addresses) Adam Back
2014-01-16 1:02 ` Jeremy Spilman
2014-01-16 1:32 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-01-18 17:44 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-01-18 20:25 ` Christophe Biocca
2014-01-20 11:11 ` Peter Todd
2014-01-21 4:00 ` Jeremy Spilman
2014-01-24 9:17 ` Peter Todd
2014-01-16 11:42 ` Adam Back
2014-01-16 18:19 ` Troy Benjegerdes
2014-01-16 0:05 ` [Bitcoin-development] Stealth Addresses Jeremy Spilman
2014-01-16 0:10 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-01-16 0:24 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-01-16 0:44 ` Eric Martindale
2014-01-16 6:26 ` Gary Rowe
2014-01-16 9:48 ` Wladimir
2014-01-16 1:16 ` Odinn Cyberguerrilla
2014-01-16 10:14 ` Drak
2014-01-16 10:19 ` Mike Hearn
2014-01-16 11:12 ` [Bitcoin-development] reusable address privacy problems & fuzzy bait limitations (Re: Stealth Addresses) Adam Back
2014-01-16 21:28 ` [Bitcoin-development] Stealth Addresses Peter Todd
2014-01-17 2:30 ` Johnathan Corgan
2014-01-17 3:13 ` Jeremy Spilman
2014-01-17 7:49 ` Drak
2014-01-17 9:15 ` Mike Hearn
2014-01-17 9:19 ` Mark Friedenbach
2014-01-17 9:23 ` Natanael
2014-01-17 9:59 ` Drak
2014-01-17 20:16 ` Cameron Garnham
2014-01-17 14:46 ` Peter Todd
2014-01-17 19:21 ` Ben Davenport
2014-01-18 4:55 ` Alan Reiner
2014-01-18 5:09 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-01-18 23:12 ` Jeremy Spilman
2014-01-18 23:50 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-01-20 11:08 ` Peter Todd
2014-01-13 19:53 ` Roy Badami
2014-01-13 19:57 ` Mike Hearn
2014-01-13 20:01 ` Roy Badami
2014-01-13 19:40 ` Roy Badami
2014-01-13 19:44 ` Drak
2014-01-13 19:59 ` Alan Reiner
2014-01-13 20:10 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-01-13 20:15 ` Peter Todd
2014-01-13 22:02 ` Jeremy Spilman
2014-01-14 14:19 ` Peter Todd
2014-01-14 19:12 ` Jeremy Spilman
2014-01-14 20:48 ` Peter Todd
2014-01-14 21:51 ` Adam Back
2014-01-14 22:34 ` Jeremy Spilman
2014-01-13 20:14 ` Peter Todd
2014-01-13 20:41 ` Alan Reiner
2014-01-13 20:47 ` Gregory Maxwell
2014-01-13 21:02 ` Roy Badami
2014-01-13 21:15 ` Alan Reiner
2014-01-13 21:27 ` Peter Todd
[not found] ` <op.w9ne31oqyldrnw@laptop-air.hsd1.ca.comcast.net>
2014-01-14 12:10 ` Peter Todd
2014-03-06 12:23 ` Dan Carter
[not found] <mailman.417890.1389952750.21953.bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
2014-01-17 12:16 ` joseph
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