From: "David A. Harding" <dave@dtrt•org>
To: Nagaev Boris <bnagaev@gmail•com>
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Scaling Lightning Safely With Feerate-Dependent Timelocks
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 17:11:48 -1000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <7b210ceabf8f5f4b58b2f6b68e6a7037@dtrt.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAFC_Vt6yk2MwkUhiBKyGmOArVrU9VCdf27qR8wDMMOz_ONjt=A@mail.gmail.com>
On 2023-12-29 15:17, Nagaev Boris wrote:
> Feerate-Dependent Timelocks do create incentives to accept out-of-band
> fees to decrease in-band fees and speed up mining of transactions
> using FDT! Miners can make a 5% discount on fees paid out-of-band and
> many people will use it. Observed fees decrease and FDT transactions
> mature faster. It is beneficial for both parties involved: senders of
> transactions save 5% on fees, miners get FDT transactions mined faster
> and get more profits (for the sake of example more than 5%).
Hi Nagaev,
That's an interesting idea, but I don't think that it works due to the
free rider problem: miner Alice offers a 5% discount on fees paid out of
band now in the hopes of collecting more than 5% in extra fees later due
to increased urgency from users that depended on FDTs. However,
sometimes the person who actually collects extra fees is miner Bob who
never offered a 5% discount. By not offering a discount, Bob earns more
money on average per block than Alice (all other things being equal),
eventually forcing her to stop offering the discount or to leave the
market.
Additionally, if nearly everyone was paying discounted fees out of band,
participants in contract protocols using FDTs would know to use
proportionally higher FDT amounts (e.g. 5% over their actual desired
fee), negating the benefit to miners of offering discounted fees.
-Dave
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-12-30 3:11 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 13+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-12-14 17:07 jlspc
2023-12-17 23:01 ` Antoine Riard
2023-12-22 1:25 ` jlspc
2023-12-23 4:09 ` Eric Voskuil
2023-12-28 18:19 ` jlspc
2023-12-28 18:42 ` Eric Voskuil
2023-12-30 0:37 ` David A. Harding
2023-12-30 1:17 ` Nagaev Boris
2023-12-30 3:11 ` David A. Harding [this message]
2023-12-30 3:20 ` Nagaev Boris
2023-12-22 16:36 ` Nagaev Boris
2023-12-28 18:06 ` jlspc
2023-12-29 18:11 ` David A. Harding
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=7b210ceabf8f5f4b58b2f6b68e6a7037@dtrt.org \
--to=dave@dtrt$(echo .)org \
--cc=bitcoin-dev@lists$(echo .)linuxfoundation.org \
--cc=bnagaev@gmail$(echo .)com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox