From: Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp•com.au>
To: Ethan Heilman <eth3rs@gmail•com>,
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
<bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP 151 use of HMAC_SHA512
Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2016 12:55:17 +0930 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87oa6iavky.fsf@rustcorp.com.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAEM=y+XKQZVz6UieB-nDy_C9xTmXiBB3-atuuZkxzmPoSVPOJw@mail.gmail.com>
Ethan Heilman <eth3rs@gmail•com> writes:
>>It's also not clear to me why the HMAC, vs just SHA256(key|cipher-type|mesg). But that's probably just my crypto ignorance...
>
> SHA256(key|cipher-type|mesg) is an extremely insecure MAC because of
> the length extension property of SHA256.
>
> If I have a tag y = SHA256(key|cipher-type|mesg), I can without
> knowing key or msg compute a value y' such that
> y' = SHA256(key|cipher-type|mesg|any values I want).
Not quite, there's an important subtlety that SHA256 appends the
bitlength, so you can only create:
y' = SHA256(key|cipher-type|mesg|padding|bitlength|any values I want).
But we're not using this for a MAC in BIP151, we're using this to
generate the encryption keys.
Arthur Chen <arthur.chen@btcc•com> said:
> HMAC has proven security property.
> It is still secure even when underlying crypto hashing function has
> collision resistant weakness.
> For example, MD5 is considered completely insecure now, but HMAC-MD5 is
> still considered secure.
> When in doubt, we should always use HMAC for MAC(Message Authentication
> Code) rather than custom construction
Bitcoin already relies on SHA256's robustness, but again, we don't need
a MAC here.
I'm happy to buy "we just copied ssh" if that's the answer, and I can't
see anything wrong with using HMAC here, it just seems odd...
Thanks!
Rusty.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2016-07-01 3:25 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 59+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2016-06-28 2:31 Rusty Russell
2016-06-28 7:17 ` [bitcoin-dev] BIP 151 Eric Voskuil
2016-06-28 8:26 ` Jonas Schnelli
2016-06-28 16:45 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-28 18:22 ` Peter Todd
2016-06-28 18:35 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-28 20:14 ` Peter Todd
2016-06-28 20:29 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-28 20:36 ` Peter Todd
2016-06-28 21:22 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-28 21:36 ` Gregory Maxwell
2016-06-28 21:40 ` Cameron Garnham
2016-06-28 22:07 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-28 22:33 ` Cameron Garnham
2016-06-28 23:29 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-29 0:06 ` Nick ODell
2016-06-28 21:59 ` Eric Voskuil
[not found] ` <CAAS2fgQ0Ocs8hF+pf+fWfkKKhQwxNKpY=JHpb_bwua7neVO8tg@mail.gmail.com>
2016-06-28 23:34 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-28 20:06 ` Jonas Schnelli
2016-06-28 23:31 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-29 11:17 ` Alfie John
2016-06-30 11:56 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-30 12:20 ` Jonas Schnelli
2016-06-30 12:27 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-30 12:43 ` Jonas Schnelli
2016-06-30 15:22 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-30 16:52 ` Peter Todd
2016-06-30 18:25 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-30 19:06 ` Peter Todd
2016-06-30 20:26 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-28 19:55 ` Gregory Maxwell
2016-06-28 23:33 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-29 1:01 ` Gregory Maxwell
2016-06-30 9:57 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-30 13:03 ` Pieter Wuille
2016-06-30 15:10 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-08-31 14:29 ` Pieter Wuille
2016-06-30 13:36 ` Erik Aronesty
2016-06-30 14:47 ` Alfie John
2016-07-02 9:44 ` Chris Priest
2016-06-28 12:13 ` Jonas Schnelli
2016-06-28 17:39 ` Eric Voskuil
2016-06-28 7:19 ` [bitcoin-dev] BIP 151 use of HMAC_SHA512 Jonas Schnelli
2016-06-28 8:31 ` Arthur Chen
2016-06-29 18:34 ` Jonas Schnelli
2016-06-29 20:13 ` Peter Todd
2016-06-29 20:31 ` Jonas Schnelli
2016-06-29 1:00 ` Rusty Russell
2016-06-29 1:38 ` Arthur Chen
2016-06-29 1:56 ` Ethan Heilman
2016-06-29 6:58 ` Pieter Wuille
2016-06-29 14:38 ` Ethan Heilman
2016-06-29 18:46 ` Jonas Schnelli
2016-07-01 3:25 ` Rusty Russell [this message]
2016-07-01 22:42 ` Zooko Wilcox
2016-07-04 1:23 ` Arthur Chen
2016-07-04 1:44 ` Arthur Chen
2016-07-04 6:47 ` Jonas Schnelli
2016-07-04 6:37 ` Jonas Schnelli
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