From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEBE786 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:40:55 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pa0-f48.google.com (mail-pa0-f48.google.com [209.85.220.48]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52278140 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:40:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pabfh17 with SMTP id fh17so7345021pab.0 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 03:40:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version :content-type; bh=k75lQMBmFXw+7POSNaCyZEzV5l7Xcl8XwkNINwaKu08=; b=ZHF7diPXleIUUIXUYh0/m8zqA/9dAjkSHQuBsA2w1LFDSnrfuD8KX1UcYbZKSzjhYt guzkLLo62HUJw11RW/VYSNIufFVi8m5KpAFh4BuTVtFhv5pmQm/1q+Dr4P/CnztsE3vh 6/6oltpqK3bl1PEyAOIQ/SJwLNdLXUzX29c2bt2NShrxzkEpX4hLZudHZA1IepLFfufy Er0EfLSta8aWd+BIdGtVqU/QdWMClgjTS4IecXycdMnwcZX8DqOcyTHCPL4mn+IJ415w 07Thy95qfMRXNoeygUKazCWP4NmryeizUi4q5J4ZoJdOKCKmQ97n3KqIHwKlE5Ub6qk4 Y/dg== X-Received: by 10.68.142.197 with SMTP id ry5mr44280104pbb.77.1447760454058; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 03:40:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com. [76.167.237.202]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id qn5sm42588008pac.41.2015.11.17.03.40.53 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 17 Nov 2015 03:40:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric Lombrozo" To: bitcoin-dev Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:40:43 +0000 Message-Id: Reply-To: "Eric Lombrozo" User-Agent: eM_Client/6.0.23181.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------=_MBECF4C1A7-5E56-4DB8-A11A-F643DB5BF451" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:57:56 +0000 Subject: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamic Hierarchical Deterministic Key Trees X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:40:56 -0000 --------=_MBECF4C1A7-5E56-4DB8-A11A-F643DB5BF451 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've submitted a BIP proposal that solves the issue of needing to=20 predefine HD wallet structures and not being able to arbitrarily nest=20 deeper levels. Comments appreciated. https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/242 - Eric --------=_MBECF4C1A7-5E56-4DB8-A11A-F643DB5BF451 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I've submitted a BIP proposal that solves the issue of needing to pred= efine HD wallet structures and not being able to arbitrarily nest deeper= levels. Comments appreciated.

https://github.co= m/bitcoin/bips/pull/242

- Eric

--------=_MBECF4C1A7-5E56-4DB8-A11A-F643DB5BF451-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76B9A1BB for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:26:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 00:16:02 by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from wp059.webpack.hosteurope.de (wp059.webpack.hosteurope.de [80.237.132.66]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C218F171 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:26:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [81.0.112.130] (helo=[192.168.0.106]); authenticated by wp059.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) id 1Zyg1a-00032H-GE; Tue, 17 Nov 2015 14:10:18 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Tamas Blummer In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 14:10:17 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9F747105-0BE5-48B0-9032-A0B4CBFC8A66@bitsofproof.com> References: To: Eric Lombrozo , Eric Lombrozo via bitcoin-dev X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; tamas@bitsofproof.com; 1447766782; 51c51250; X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:53:21 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamic Hierarchical Deterministic Key Trees X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2015 13:26:23 -0000 Hi Eric, Would you please enumerate, or point to, arguments that discourage the = use of a key both for signing and for derivation of a deeper level of = the hierarchy ? Tamas Blummer > On Nov 17, 2015, at 12:40, Eric Lombrozo via bitcoin-dev = wrote: >=20 > I've submitted a BIP proposal that solves the issue of needing to = predefine HD wallet structures and not being able to arbitrarily nest = deeper levels. Comments appreciated. > =20 > https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/242 > =20 > =20 > - Eric > _______________________________________________ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59108486 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 08:45:28 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pa0-f41.google.com (mail-pa0-f41.google.com [209.85.220.41]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 967B387 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 08:45:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by pacej9 with SMTP id ej9so140050571pac.2 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:45:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:reply-to:user-agent :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4ScJMU9qWCvv9ZLog5K411MPnfolC0UPJFECzJToVHQ=; b=mQlR0K/D+/a+Nq5FKx1mkrWqn1Z550nNyKa9r9l+h9+CrBMTDKmRdwcFMkHAPScxQz GcoUJ1W6+Sms4Jd8BOtJmIclUQKDqAkvymJ7K93HD8SLPhpA1vjdU01XDnO4tHYtVSK1 oWOfr1RZRqJE5e9k/pzvgVL3gpk1p7cRGp1X1OvWiQf1LWiQM4z75oxTzarGM76TX48E d6Qz6aOsjSXD7JNbEDkbZsN4LzpF6E6O7mVhcCSQ1ek7ES3uIrKKx4KaAt4tjG394NQ4 fUCw2X0JdnlW37tkTmBKNoRyObc3kzNr7dIWHjddSCN/5cYkjNa4P2LcyLr8Hzj4JXIq MU4A== X-Received: by 10.66.124.165 with SMTP id mj5mr23989282pab.97.1448095527339; Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:45:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com. [76.167.237.202]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a27sm2233279pfj.36.2015.11.21.00.45.26 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:45:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric Lombrozo" To: "Tamas Blummer" , "Eric Lombrozo via bitcoin-dev" Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 08:45:10 +0000 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9F747105-0BE5-48B0-9032-A0B4CBFC8A66@bitsofproof.com> Reply-To: "Eric Lombrozo" User-Agent: eM_Client/6.0.23181.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 09:07:37 +0000 Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamic Hierarchical Deterministic Key Trees X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 08:45:28 -0000 Tamas, You could use a key for both signing and for derivation of a deeper=20 level (and perhaps there are some applications for this, if you think of= =20 any please let me know), but the use cases being considered involve=20 generation of signing key sequences from seeds that are easy to backup=20 and easy to share with others to simplify multidevice synchronization,=20 key management, account structures, etc... while also allowing for=20 privacy by making it nontrivial to associate transactions for an account= =20 without knowing the seed/chain code. As such, we generally refer to such sequences by a path to the immediate= =20 parent node in the tree and reserve the children themselves for the=20 signing keys. - Eric ------ Original Message ------ From: "Tamas Blummer" To: "Eric Lombrozo" ; "Eric Lombrozo via=20 bitcoin-dev" Sent: 11/17/2015 5:10:17 AM Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Dynamic Hierarchical Deterministic Key Trees >Hi Eric, > >Would you please enumerate, or point to, arguments that discourage the=20 >use of a key both for signing and for derivation of a deeper level of=20 >the hierarchy ? > >Tamas Blummer > >> On Nov 17, 2015, at 12:40, Eric Lombrozo via bitcoin-dev=20 >> wrote: >> >> I've submitted a BIP proposal that solves the issue of needing to=20 >>predefine HD wallet structures and not being able to arbitrarily nest=20 >>deeper levels. Comments appreciated. >> >> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/242 >> >> >> - Eric >> _______________________________________________ >> bitcoin-dev mailing list >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev >